BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow

Subject: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:42 PM

Last night on the Roadshow from Denver, a woman brought in a 1939 Martin, herringbone, brilliant Brazilian rosewood body, original hardware. Lovely thing. The fretboard, he said, had been changed, or at least the facing had. But the appraiser gave it an estimated value of $25,000.

Did anyone else see it?

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:46 PM

Rog says it was a rerun and he did see it. Said it was pretty nice.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Justa Picker
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:46 PM

I didn't see it, but a bone around that age, and all original in excellent condition would be worth in the 40-50K range. I'd say the appraisal at 25K is accurate if the top's been refinished, and the fingerboard replaced.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 11:08 PM

I saw this quite by accident and it was, at least as much as you could see on the tube, a pretty fair appraisal. It could have been a bit high, but the repairs seemed pretty decent. Hard to tell on the tube and then of course.......how does it sound?

Nothing to me........I ain't got 25 G's myself.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Bert
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 01:01 AM

$25,000 - $50,000 for a guitar. Would any guitar REALLY be worth 100 times the price of a Seagull?

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:07 AM

I saw it. Neat story went with it. The woman's father bought it so that they could sing around the campfire on family outings. Guess it won't be spending much time tossed in the back of the RV anymore. It was pretty - sorry but that is my first priority.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Justa Picker
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:16 AM

Depends on your perspective Bert.
I suppose the short answer is no.
The longer answer is "vintage market and investment". The return to an investor on pristine vintage Martins (talking those made before the fall of 1944) is better than if you'd taken that same 25-50K and put it in real estate, bonds, GIC's, mutual funds, stock market and other main stream investments for say 5 years, and then compared the returns. Obviously the longer you've owned the said vintage instrument, the cheaper it was acquired for, and the higher the return. But make no mistake, there is a definite niche market of collectors, investors and dealers who will continue to drive the prices skyward of these increasingly rare instruments.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: GUEST,Walking Eagle
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:58 AM

I saw it as well. We had a discussion about it at one of our dulcimer band gatherings and most people said they would sell it. I took the side of keeping it in the family and learning how to play it. It would only get more valuable with age and good care. BTW, Martin lists one guitar in their vintage catalogue as worth $140,000.00 dollars. I agree that these guitars are in the investment instrument catagory.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: dwditty
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:17 PM

I once picked a vintage archtop off the wall at Mandolin Brothers - as I recall the price tag was $120,000. There definitely was "something different" about that guitar - but not $117,000 worth of difference between it and my Collings.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Justa Picker
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:22 PM

That guitar Walking Eagle, would be a pre-war D-45, of which there were only 91 originally made, between 1934 and 1944. Elderly Instruments currently has one and the asking price is $140K. They recently sold another one for the same price. Pics here.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:31 PM

At music last night, one man (One of those who says There is no such thing as having too many guitars!) said the problem with having one of those is the paranoia factor- you wouldn't dare take it with you to play, you wouldn't dare leave it home, you wouldn't dare let someone else come close to it...

Reminds me- I live in a house museum. Among the collection is an old Edison cylinder-record phonograph. A woman told me that her father had had one and agonized over the safety of the machine and finally donated it to a local museum. That same week, the museum was hit by a burglar; among the things they took was the phonograph.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: GUEST,Walking Eagle
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 03:00 PM

Thanks Justa Picker for providing the link to the 140K special. I just LOVE those old butter bean tuning heads. I think I'll hold off on buying it until they get two in. You never know when company will show up and you need a spare instrument! (;>).

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 03:06 PM

I did think the appraisal was a bit low (it was an appraisal after all). The replaced fretboard was the obvious culprit but CLEARLY delineates the sharp difference between player and collector/investor.

If I were god-for-a-day non-player's would not be allowed to buy 'em. period. (okay, except as gifts for players like me)

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Justa Picker
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 03:12 PM

Walking Eagle,
You are aware that you can purchase new (what Martin refers to as Butterbean tuners, and are Waverly knock-offs). Original WAVERLY's are considered the best tuners on the market. Not cheap though. Elderly, Mandolin Bros., and Musician's supply places on the net carry them. They come in nickel and (pseudo) gold.

John Hardly,
I didn't see the show, but it would take more than a replaced fretboard to devalue the guitar of 50% of it's true value. Refinishing it (no matter how recently or long ago done) WOULD cause its value to be diminshed by 50%. I suspect that's the case with this instrument, and if so, the appraisal is just about spot on. Same would hold true if the neck had been replaced as well.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 04:22 PM

I guess one thing that suprises me about Antiques Roadshow is that whenever an instrument shows up it gets appaised but no one ever PLAYS the durn thing so we can hear what it sounds like. With most other items it's fine if you just look at them but with a musical instrument it needs to be played to be of value. In my opinion. But I would have loved to hear a "G" chord out of that old 28.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: GUEST,Steve N.
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 05:00 PM

Justa Picker's info. is right, as usual. There was probably something about that herringbone that we were not told. My pickin/singin partner of many years had one of those that was completely original (he bought it in the early '60s for the outrageous price of $2000) and he sold it a few years ago. He couldn't take it out to our gigs for fear of 1)theft and 2)breakage, so it was virtually worthless to him (not a COLLECTOR, just a PLAYER). With sadness and trepidation, he sold it. He paid off about a quarter of his mortgage and bought a 000-18 from the '30s and a 5-year old D-45 just to make himself feel better.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: John Hardly
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 05:27 PM

I don't think it should have been devalued that much, though I can see where you'd get that from my post.

I don't think the appraiser was right-----unless there were things about which he didn't tell us.

From what one could see from just a TV view, I've only seen one guitar that age (and old Gibson) that was that well-kept.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 10:31 PM

Reminds me of a fella out in Wheaton, IL called by some (not me!) "The Banjo King" because of all the incredible banjos he had. And didn't (couldn't?) play even one of them. Nice picture of them arrayed up the long, curving , wide, staircase of his mansion. Even the cruddiest instrument it worth having IF IT CAN BE PLAYED and probably not worth a dime if it can't (or won't) be played.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: BK
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:00 PM

I dunno; kinda nauseates me. I was that paranoid abt my 'ol guitar, then started playing it again. Glad I did. BTW it has the original cast, fully enclosed tuners, the then top-of-the-line Klusons. Not like the stamped Klusons on my older Gibson. They are probably still the best cast enclosed tuners I've ever used.

For all we know it might not sound as good as it looks - I hope it doesn't. Hope it sounds AWFULL!!

Don't LIKE those collecter dudes & dudettes; wish they'd stick to ugly depression tableware, or Melmac, or other soul-less stuff like that!! May all their children be born naked & hairless & may they have all the karma of a half-used plastic container of stale Skippy!! May they live in interesting times!!

Guess I tol' 'em!!

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Armen Tanzerian
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 09:04 AM

I missed the segment, but I have always assumed that the appraisers on Antiques Road Show always come in on the high side, because it makes for better TV. Not inflated -- just generous.

As for tuners, I picked up a "vintage reissue" D-28 (1995) on eBay with them open tuners, and I much prefer the Grovers on my old D-18. I'm thinking of changing over the D-28, authenticity be hanged.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: BK
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 09:32 PM

Armen;

I changed my DM (not worth that much) to full sized Rotamatics - like it much better! -so go for it!

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 11:28 PM

Send me the wasted waverly's.

closed backers were engineered for the lap-nose-dive.

Subject: RE: BS: The Martin On Antiques Roadsshow
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 06:39 PM