Subject: Seventh son of a seventh son From: mcpiper Date: 16 Aug 01 - 06:21 AM Hello to all. Is there anything in folklore regarding the 7th son of a 7th son. I work with one who claims to be such a person, and seem to remember sayings etc. about them. Any info, tales, superstitions, or indeed any songs would be a real help, and maybe help to shut the bugger up. Thanks, mcpiper. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Letty Date: 16 Aug 01 - 06:35 AM Well, traditionally 7th sons of 7th sons are supposed to be witches or at least have some magical powers. Here's a quote I had lying about somewhere (don't know the source):
Letty |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: mcpiper Date: 16 Aug 01 - 07:03 AM Thanks Letty, 14 minutes for a reply, not bad at all, some interesting info. Any songs anyone? Cheers, mcpiper |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Crazy Eddie Date: 16 Aug 01 - 08:52 AM No songs, but in Ireland 7th sons of 7th sons were (are?) believed by many (some?) to have powers of healing. In Terry Pratchett's discworld, the eighth son of an eighth is a wizard. Wizards are supposed remain celibate, to avoid any possibility of an eighth son of an eighth son of an eighth son. Such a one would be a sourcerer, (able to touch the source of magic), with enough power to destroy the entire world. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 16 Aug 01 - 08:58 AM Oh yes. Iron Maiden had an album out in 1988, entitled thus. I was there. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: jeffp Date: 16 Aug 01 - 09:07 AM Rory Gallagher had an electric blues song called, "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son." I believe it was on Blue Thumb Records, sometime in the late Sixties or early Seventies. jeffp |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE SEVENTH SON (Willie Dixon) From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:03 AM THE SEVENTH SON W. DIXON sung by JOHNNY RIVERS Everybody talkin' 'bout the seventh son In the whole wide world there is only one And I'm the one, I'm the one I'm the one, I'm the one The one they call the seventh son I can tell your future, it will come to pass I can do things to you make your heart feel glad Look in the sky, predict the rain Tell when a woman's got another man I'm the one, oh I'm the one I'm the one, I'm the one The one they call the seventh son I can talk these words that will sound so sweet They will even make your little heart skip a beat Heal the sick, raise the dead Make the little girls talk outta their heads I'm the one, oh I'm the one I'm the one, I'm the one The one they call the seventh son ------ lead guitar ------ I can talk these words that will sound so sweet They will even make your little heart skip a beat Heal the sick, raise the dead And make the little girls talk outta their heads I'm the one, oh I'm the one I'm the one, I'm the one The one they call the seventh son I'm the one, hey, hey I'm the one Oh, I'm the one, babe Oooo, I'm the one I'm the one, I'm the one The one they call the seventh son I'm the one, I'm the one The one they call the seventh son
SEVENTH SON OF A SEVENTH SON
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Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Peg Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:18 AM Seven, in numerology, is a very powerful and magical number. Being born "under the seven" in the old days meant you were destined to be taken into mystical training of some sort...it represents completion and understanding and wisdom and a deep connection to the unseen world (dreams, etc.); hence children whose birthdates corresponded to it were closely watched to see if they had powers or skills that went beyond the usual...I would imagine the seventh son of a seventh son thing is related to this... I have also heard the vampire thing repeated widely... one pal of mine is a seventh son; he is a horror writer by trade. Peg
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Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Sorcha Date: 16 Aug 01 - 10:42 AM I belive it was Orson Scott Card who wrote a series of books (fantasy/fiction/sci-fi)about this......can't remember any titles, tho. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: katlaughing Date: 16 Aug 01 - 11:23 AM Amazon says this is the first one, Sorcha: "Seventh Son (Tales of Alvin Maker."
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Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,Nick Date: 16 Aug 01 - 01:49 PM I think there is a line about the 7th son of a 7th son in The song "Who Do You love?" |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: okthen Date: 16 Aug 01 - 02:02 PM I think there's a reference in hoochie coochie man, by muddy waters. The healer Mathew Manning (here in UK) is a seventh son of a seventh son, a man of remarkable abilities. He live not far from me, and bought a house on an intersection of 2 lay lines. Thanks Mary in Kentucky for reminding me of Mose Alison. cheers bill |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST Date: 16 Aug 01 - 02:10 PM In my family (UK)the seventh son of a seventh son was thought to have mystic powers. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: vindelis Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:11 PM An't they supposed to have second sight? |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: vindelis Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:12 PM Soory that should have read: Aren't they supposed to have second sight? I haven't. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,CFJS Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:47 PM I don't know where she got the basis of the folklore from but a British writer Susan Cupper wrote a whole series of young adult fiction books where based around british folk lore, traditions, myths and ledgends, where the lead character 'Will' was a seventh son of a seventh son, and as a result was one of the 'Old Ones', not vampires but sort of gardians of mankind. don't know if this is of interest.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Linda Kelly Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:52 PM There is a lake in Northrumbria, under the shadow of Hadrian's wall called Broomlee Lough. Legend has it that viking treasure lays buried there and can only be extracted by twin white horses and twin oxen which are chained together by a golden chain which is made by (wait for it ,wait for it!!) a blacksmith (here it comes!) who is the seventh son of a seventh son. The National Trust has just bought the property but in the contract there is a caviat which allows the original owners family to continue to search for the treasure for the next 99 years. I have written a song about it the chorus goes: Five fathom five, my father lies asleep, and on his head a golden crown and in his slumbers deep it is twice for the man I am, and twice the golden mane and the seventh son of a seventh son will strike the golden chain ,five fathom five. I only have snippets to base this song on and although it is finished it needs a bit of tidying. anyone with more info about this would they PM me? |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: M.Ted Date: 16 Aug 01 - 05:06 PM Sorry to be a bit of a nerd on this, but, what does "seventh son of a seventh son mean?" It seems a bit vague-- Would it be the counting all the children?(i.e.--3 girls, three boys, and the seventh, a boy) or would it be any number of sisters, only counting the boys? And are they sons of a the same mother, or do you count all the sons of the father, regardless of the mother? And do you count the stillborns? Enquiring minds, you know... |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Sorcha Date: 16 Aug 01 - 05:28 PM Only count the boys....don't know about multiple mothers or stillborns but I would think they would count if they were all boys. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: The Walrus Date: 16 Aug 01 - 05:59 PM As I recall, vindelis is correct and the 7th son of a 7th son is supposed to have "second sight". On the musical side (if it can be called music) I seem to remember Bob Hope (and I assume Bing Crosby) singing about the 7th son of a 7th son (and committing appalling "cod" Scots accents) in (I think) one of the "Road" series of films (no idea which one). Regards Walrus |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Burke Date: 16 Aug 01 - 06:06 PM One of the plot points in Card's Alvin Maker series is the whole question of how the 7 are counted & if they must be living. Only sons count. Alvin is a 7th son, but the oldest had been swept away in a river just before he was born. He has mystic power, but the next son who was also the 7th living son is also very powerful. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Gareth Date: 16 Aug 01 - 07:01 PM Personally I'll Stick with the Pratchett version -
If you want to read the hillarious saga try :- "EQUAL RITES" Gareth |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Lin in Kansas Date: 17 Aug 01 - 01:24 AM Lots of interesting interpretations around, many of which are mentioned above: Orson Scott Card, Terry Pratchett, Susan Cooper, etc. The "7th son" is also mentioned a lot in the old fairy tales, such as Grimm's. Usually the young man succeeded in whatever quest he was on because his luck, magical powers, and/or charm were phenomenal (due to his being a 7th son, of course). Grimm's is German, but for some reason I always thought of the 7th son tradition being Celtic-based? Sorry McPiper, but I don't recall anything that would imply that being a 7th son is less than wonderful. You may just have to gag your co-worker! Lin |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Sorcha Date: 17 Aug 01 - 02:38 AM I think I am just glad I am not the mother of seven sons, let alone the grandomother of 14.........plus. |
Subject: RE: BS: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Deckman Date: 17 Aug 01 - 11:56 AM I can't recommend Cards "Tales of Alvin Maker" enough. Incredible story and beautifully written. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Mudlark Date: 18 Aug 01 - 04:36 AM Mose Allison's recording of 7th Son is the definitive one for me...and at least HE"s still alive! |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Ferrara Date: 19 Aug 01 - 12:27 AM Walrus et al: Here's the words of the Bob Hope/Bing Crosby song, as I remember them. Can't remember which of the "Road To..." movies it came from, but I was about 7 years old and my sister and I had the knack of learning all the songs in a movie and singing them all the way home. Couldn't do that now! ... Anyway, the presence of the concept in such a pop setting makes me think that the specialness of 7th sons etc was very well known half a century ago. It's a damn silly song anyway.
"Hoot mon, out of me way,
Hoot mon, today's the day ... there's probably more. I may have it on an LP, I found some old stuff at the library store. If anyone wants me to go look for it, just PM me. - Ferrara |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,johnne Date: 19 Aug 01 - 12:37 AM i remember the old Roger Miller song "Dang Me" They say roses are red Violets are purple Sugar is sweet and so is maple syrple I'm the seventh of a seventh son My pappy was a pistol I'm a son of a gun Well dang me dang me oughta take a rope and hang me high from the highest tree woman would you weep for me. I don't write em I just remember em. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: mcpiper Date: 19 Aug 01 - 07:02 AM Many thanks for the posts, lots of info. We have long suspected the bugger had powers beyond our comprehension, now I will have to find a real witch, warlock, goblin or even a troll would do, to try and curse or gag him as suggested by Lin in Kansas. Now, where to find one of those? |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Callie Date: 19 Aug 01 - 09:11 AM I heard Mose Allison sing ´7th Son´about a month ago in London, and it´s on his¨"Live at the Pizza Express" cd. In the same concert, he sang another song which contained just one line about a 7th son of a 7th son. Luckily/wickedly, I recorded the concert (for my own personal edification). I´ll listen to the recording and see if I can find this other song. Callie |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: mcpiper Date: 21 Aug 01 - 06:33 AM Thanks for the interesting posts, but we are in no danger. Further questioning revealed that he was including older sisters in the mix. He is merely the 7th child of a 7th child. This reduces his special powers to exactly what we all thought, he is merely another egotistical know all, and yes, we have told him so. cheers. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST Date: 11 Jun 04 - 03:21 AM I thought it had to be the seventh child, with the catch that if the child is female then the mother also has to be the seventh child in her family as well. The father for son. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST Date: 11 Jun 04 - 05:43 AM Iam the 7th child of a 7th child, including stillborns, and I can heal and yes, odd things do happen to me that are unaccountable. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,bg Date: 11 Jun 04 - 06:53 AM I live in rural Ireland and have met many people who have received cures from a seventh son of a seventh son. They gifted with "cures". I personally know one guy who can cure simple fungal infections such as "thrush" and "ringworm" in children. Probably the most famous 7th son is Finbarr Nolan whose cures have been medically examined in the States www.finbarrnolan.com |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: maire-aine Date: 11 Jun 04 - 11:23 AM My grandmother was a seventh daughter, and according to family lore, people did seek her out to tell the future. She had already passed away before I was born, but according to my mother, she had some degree of second-sight. I guess she found it very troubling when she saw something bad, so she tried not to use it. I wish I'd had the change to meet her (she died in 1935). Now that the culture is slightly more sympathetic towards people with special gifts, I wonder how she'd handle it if she were alive today. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,Seventh Date: 24 Aug 04 - 01:18 PM I'm the seventh son of a tenth son and I haver predicted many things in my life. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Bob Bolton Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:15 AM Hmmm ... No folklore on this (not much about in the bright, exceeding dry, air of Australia - but a friend's Dad was the 14th child of a 14th child. (His family lived in a sleepy little village on, the 'bush' side of the Great Dividing Range, called Sunny Corner ... and there wasn't much else to do at nights!) If the genders of the children of both generations followed the statistical norm, there's a pretty good chance that he was the 7th son of a 7th son - although I can't recollect any 'magical' aura about him. Anyway, living in Sydney, in the post-war period he seems not to have intended to keep up the tradition ... he had 3 children; one daughter and two sons! Regards, Bob Bolton |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:14 AM My wife got rheumatoid arthritis when she was 25 years old. As she was young the illness surged through her body and was soon in every joint - changing our lives utterly in weeks. When a disaster like this happens - you look for an escape clause in reality. So one day my Mum was driving through a suburb of Birmingham (England this is - not Alabama)and she saw that an Irish 7th son of a seventh son was holding a healing ministry in one of those fundamentalist scout hut type churches. We took Denise along - figuring what the hell. It won't do any harm. as I remember the guy looked a bit Eamon Holmes that very engaging dark Irish handsomeness, and he wore a pale green suit was SO Mr Showbiz in the 1970's - which is when this happened. Most people had diseased arms,breasts etc and he laid his hands on them. But Denise was diseased all over so he advised her to bathe at midnight and into the bath put the earth from a freshly dug grave. So we thought what the hell. We did all that. However unsurprisingly this caused no improvement in her medical condition. I hope you find this helpful - its the only dealing I've had with 7th sons of seventh sons. |
Subject: unbeleavable From: GUEST,a seventh child Date: 13 Sep 04 - 12:40 PM all my life i've done or seen things that i could not explain fully, i thought it was luck or coincedence but now that i know what i know! cruel world look out. 7 days |
Subject: I am the seventh son From: GUEST,tim7of10 Date: 07 Oct 04 - 04:03 AM I've heard people often talk about being the seventh born, personally I've never found being the seventh born lucky, but not only am I the seventh in my family my father is the seventh born and my mother is too (what does that mean?) Since I've heard more and more about comments about the seventh one I've grown more courious. So far I seen nothing special although I've experienced many connections that were bizaar oriented I believe that to be more my perception. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 07 Oct 04 - 08:34 AM Not folklore, but legal usage: In Germany the 7th child has the Head of State for godfather (since Kaiser's times, now it's the President of the Federation). |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: LynnT Date: 07 Oct 04 - 09:51 AM Ah, and in the old Soviet Union women who bore (and raised?) eight children got the Motherhood Hero of the Soviet Union medal in silver, those bearing 10 or more kids got it in gold. A group of us got together and gave the silver one to my ex-husband's second wife the Christmas after she had her eighth -- and I, three gay guys, and another woman who'd had a hysterectomy for medical reasons got up and thanked her for taking SUCH GOOD CARE of the reproductive potential we were so unlikely to use... Lynn |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,Raymlreit1@aol.com Date: 07 Oct 04 - 01:15 PM I am the seventh son of a seventh son and hand have healing powers as a massage therapist |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,gnix@pdnt.com Date: 10 Oct 04 - 10:39 PM I really would like to find a seventh son or daughter healer in the midwest. I live in Illinois and our seventh daughter of a seventh daughter is deceased. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,Sailing_on_by Date: 16 Oct 04 - 10:37 PM My grandmother was a 7th child of a 7th child. She is now deceased. I grew up in a Babtist family.. her whole family was southern babtist and her husband my grandfather who died before I was born was a preacher. Anyways.. my grandmother had special healing powers. Like the post from Guestbj in Ireland, my grandmother could cure thrush mouth, ringwor, and instantly heal burns. She also "took away" the 10 warts that were on my hands that I had have burned off my doctors but kept returning. She was a religious women though the church would not recognize or understand this. So it was kept hush hush in my family. Grandma never advertised these gifts.. but the family after seeing so many miraculas healings.. accepted this.. bu t never talked about it. She had a 7th son (she had 12 children altogether) and he could also had special healing powers. He also had very bad epilipsey and died young (40's). But he was special.. he was kind and you could just visably see he was very special. I am glad to find other messages.. as I have not talked about this for many years. Sailing |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST Date: 19 Oct 04 - 09:25 PM Does being a son in a family of seven which I am the youngest, and my father also being the youngest in a family of seven be of any significance??? But also after reading some posts and questioning my mother I have decovered a strange coincidence, my next eldest sibling, my sister is exactly 7 years, 7 months to the day older than me. Seem weird to you and I am born on the seventh month???? Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!! |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST,G.G.G.Grandaughter of a 7th son Date: 21 Oct 04 - 06:00 PM I would really like to get my hands on the Irish legend regarding the 7th son of the 7th son,as my ancestor was one and I would like it for my geneology records. |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST Date: 24 Oct 04 - 02:17 AM Anyone have any new info on seventh son???? |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: GUEST Date: 19 Nov 04 - 08:36 AM My maternal grandfather was a 7th son of a seventh son,my daughter, his 7th greatgrandchild, was born on the 7th of the month, any connection here??? |
Subject: RE: Need Info: Seventh son of a seventh son From: Les in Chorlton Date: 20 Nov 04 - 03:42 AM Why is it that people who will not accept the evidence for a very old planet and plant, animal and human evolution will believe, without any reliable evidence, all this nonsense? |
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