Tune Req: The Star o' the Bar (Davie Robertson)

Subject: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Double Ray
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:29 PM

I am looking for the words of a song I keep hearing chourses and ends of verses of at sessions. The song was written about ten to twelve years ago and I belive it is called "The Star O' The Bar". The bit of a verse I rember is ... fought in the pubs wae her, rowed in the dubs wae her, cashed mony subs wae her, never repayed, and the last part of the chours is .... She was course, she was heartless and she wasna that bonney but she was the star o' the bar in her day. A great song with a verry singable tune.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 03:38 PM

What you need to do is type star o' the bar into the invaluable "Digitrad and Forum Search", which you will find on the main Forum Page.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Scabby Doug on the Cookievorous PC
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 05:50 AM

I KNOW I looked for this... I KNOW I did.. I did I did..

Very recently.

Goddamn it...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Scabby Doug again
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 05:56 AM

I knew I had searched. I can't find Star OF (or O') the bar in the DT. It's a cracker. If anyone knows where the words might be, I'd be obleeged....

Cheers

SD

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 06:22 AM

It isn't in the DT, but the Forum.  Searching as I described above returns this:  STAR O' THE BAR.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Scabby Doug (doesn't deserve a cookie)......
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 07:02 AM

You are of course, correct. AND I am of course, stupid, unable to read... and now feeling very very humble...

Many thanks.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Double Ray
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 02:42 PM

Thanks Malcolm Douglas, may your toast allways land jam side up.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 02:52 PM

Thankyou; I wish it would!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 18 Aug 01 - 12:04 PM

But does anyone have the chords for this great song?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Aug 01 - 09:04 PM

CHORDS????? I have only ever heard this song sung a cappella with all the "instruments" you need being the other human voices that provide the most tremendous harmonies in the chorus, if you're lucky. Sorry I don't know all the words either, but a friend sings it extraordinarily well. Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Aug 01 - 09:16 PM

P.S.Malcolm, thanks for the blicky, now I HAVE got the words! I could work out some chords, but as above, I think "in the chapel" is best! Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Aug 01 - 09:37 PM

I don't think I've ever actually heard this one, but it does rather remind me of somebody I used to know, and was very fond of, which is why I remembered that we had it here.  I don't suppose any of you could post the tune?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 07:27 AM

Tattie, as with you I've only heard it unaccompanied, but my voice isn't strong enough. I thought I would do that voice covers guitar, guitar covers voice, thing.

Malcom, I think its appeal is that we've all known a girl like this... wonder if its the same girl...

Derek Moffat of Scottish band the MacCalmans does a good version on their album Keepers. I think its his voice that is intimidating me. (He's unwell just now I believe, so hope he's better soon.)

The tune would be good

R

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 11:11 AM

I regard very few things as heresy, but guitar accompaniment to "Star of the Bar " would be one of them. It would come out sounding like a mushy waltz.

I remember once singing Adam McNaughtan's "Cholesterol" in a singaround, and somebody (unbidden) decided to provide guitar accompaniment. That was scary, the song turned into a mushy waltz, everyone swaying from side to side ......

Sing "The Star of the Bar" unaccompanied, no matter what you think your voice sounds like.

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 08:19 PM

Whoops, strong sentiment indeed. I take your point about mushy waltz....

I'll bow to your strength of feeling, but be aware that I will not hesitate in naming you should it go horribly awry.

Roger

Subject: Tune Add: The Star O' The Bar
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 03:20 PM

I'm glad someone agrees about doing it unaccompanied. I don't have any fancy equipment or program for posting the tune, so I'll try to do it in old-fashioned notes - in the key of G, 3/4 time, and no mushy swaying if you please! Q=quaver, C=crotchet, DC=dotted crotchet, M=minim, - = PAUSE(maybe not every line!) etc!

Verse:

GA/ BAG / GED / DEG / AG -

(QQ/ CCC/ CCC / CCC / CC) -

GA / BAG / GAB / CDE / D -

(QQ / CCC /CCC / CCC / M) -

DD / EDBB /BAGGG / GEG / BA -

(QQ/QQCC / QQCQQ / CCC / CC) -

GA / BAG / GED / DEG / G -

(QQ/ CCC /Q DC C/ CCC / M)

Chorus:

D / DB E /D DD/ DB E / D D / DB E / DB E / DCB / A -

(C/ Q DC C/M QQ/Q DC C/ M C/ Q DC C/Q DC C/ CCC / M )-

GA/ B - AG / GE - DD / DEG /AG -

(QQ/ C - QQ / Q DC -QQ/ CCC /Q DC) -

GA/ BAG / GED / DEG / G

(QQ/ CCC / CCC / CCC / M)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 04:47 PM

Ah, thankyou Tattie; it's The Fair Flower of Northumberland tune.  There's a link to a midi of the tune in its hymn-book incarnation as Stowey in this thread:  anyone know this song?????? - knight won his spur.  It's a little different from the tune as you give it, so I'll see if I can make a useful revised midi for this song, based on your notes, when I get back from the pub.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 09:06 PM

I've done a first draft:  Star of the Bar.  In some places, I've moved notes into the higher octave because it seems logical; if that's wrong, please let me know and I'll modify it.  Once it's finished, I'll put a link to it in the other thread with the lyric.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From:
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 02:15 AM

Very close, Malcolm, but not quite. You'll have to get yourself on to PalTalk. I've often thought that PalTalk is totally under-used for this tune passing aspect of the forum

Jack

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Diva
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 09:39 AM

I remember when this was a new song and it had just won a song writing competition..Edinburgh I think. I'm with Jack on this..get into Paltalk and someone will sing it for you!!!!!!

Diva

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 10:44 AM

I've had a mess-about with the tune, and it sounds a whole lot like Farewell to Tarwathie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 05:53 PM

Thanks, Tattie and Malcolm, tune sounds pretty close to me... Don't know if you know the MacCalmans, Scottish Band, but its on their album Keepers. Great band, good album.

Farewell to Tarwathie? that's not the same as Farewell to Sicily, is it? The tune of which is an old pipes tune the name of which is currently escaping me.

Now if anyone has the chords to THAT fine tune....

Roger

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 06:10 PM

Fare Well to Sicily:

GCGG/CGGD

GCGG/GGFG

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 06:50 PM

The pipe tune the 51st (Highland) Division's Farewell to Sicily is set to is Farewell to the Creeks.

Tarwathie is completely different. If you have a sound card, the blue thing in my message is a clickie to the midi.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 07:30 PM

Tarwathie is clearly a variant of the tune we're discussing.  I know of the MacCalmans, but I don't have any of their material to hand.  If anybody would like to be specific about differences between the midi I've made from Tattie's guide and the tune as they remember it, I'll gladly incorporate those.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 07:36 AM

Etymological note for English and Americans. "Rolled in the dubs" means "rolled in the puddles", and "cadged mony subs" means "cadged many loans".

"Sub" is an abbreviation of the term "subsistence payment" which was the money which casual building workers would receive on the first Friday after they started work, to tide them over until the following Friday, when they would be entitled to their first week's wages.

Interestingly, in America, if you refer to a "sub", the first thing that comes to most peoples' minds is a MacDonalds type concoction consisting of a long bread roll with various types of meat filling. Maybe the term has spread to the UK by now.

The one phrase in "Star o' the Bar" that puzzles me is "straes in the wind". I have never heard anybody in Scotland pronounce "straws" as "straes", (except when singing this song) and when I sing the song I have to admit I sing "straws in the wind". I could understand "stra's in the wind".

While we are at it does anybody in Scotland really pronounce "blind" to rhyme with "wind" except in this song?

Maybe this is a localised pronunciation native to Tranent, where Davie lives.

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Scabby Doug (I had a cookie but my pc was hu
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 08:20 AM

Well ...sort of, Murray...

I'd never say "blih-nd" to rhyme with "wih-nd"

But I'd say blin' to rhyme with "win"

as in "we went stane-blin' when that sausage it did rin"

I had to think hard about "straes" too..

But it's got a sort of Embra feel to it, and that's a whole 'nother country over there (all of 46 miles away)!!

Cheers

SD

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 09:23 AM

I've tried the tune from Tattie Bogle's letters. I moved the beginning of lines into the ends of the previous lines. I managed to resist the temptation to make the tune sound more like Tarwathie, though. I've probably heard Jacko sing this, but I don't have the tune in my head.

Listen here. Anybody who wants, feel free to grab the midi, mess with it, critique it, or whatever. I'm looking at this as an "if we all work together, we can come up with an accurate tune" thing.

Farewell to the Creeks Midi. It's a 6/8 pipe march.

Jacko, it is very nice to see you back here!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 07:57 PM

Both Malcolm and Jeri's interpretations are much as I know the tune - with one exception, i.e. the first line of the chorus is ALL in the upper register, the Ds all being the fifth ABOVE the G, B a third above, etc. Can you clever folks with the midis please adjust? Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 08:54 PM

Ok; here's a revision:  Star of the Bar.  I'm wondering if one or two notes in the last line ought to be in the higher octave, too (specifically, was the star)?

Maybe that's too predictable.  Though the tune is a variant of Fair Flower of Northumberland, the model for the lyric has to be The Rose of Tralee.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 05:04 PM

Thanks for the help, Jeri, maclom

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 06:29 PM

Better, but still one or two notes in the first line of the chorus not quite as I know them or wrote above; note the repetition of the DBE pattern right through the line,until the EDBA. No change to the final line apart from you've put in an Fsharp where I'd have stuck to an E as in the first verse line. The 'armonisers can put in any higher notes there! Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 09:31 PM

Yes, a couple of errors crept in from somewhere.  Try this further revision:  Star of the Bar

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From:
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 09:59 PM

I wish I could be more precise, but music is beyond me

The third line of the verse doesn't match Davie's singing. Nor do the ends of the first and second lines of the chorus

Jack

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 05:50 PM

Sounds pretty much as I know it now Malcolm apart from one note. Sorry, Jack, I have to confess that I haven't heard Davie himself sing it: the version I gave was as I have heard a couple of Scottish singers do it. Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Diva
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 06:36 PM

Sounds just a wee bit different.... go find Brian Millar and ask him to sing it for you Tattie B

Diva

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 06:43 PM

It is still substantially different from Davie's version as noted by Jacko above. If you wish, PM me your address Malcolm and I will send you Davie's tape.

And if you are going to go to Penicuik to hear Brian Miller sing it you might as well go to Tranent and hear the man hinself !

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Diva
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 07:02 PM

Davie??? Davie who???

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 07:08 PM

Davie Robertson, composer of the "Star of the Bar" and many other great songs.

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Diva
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 05:12 AM

Whoops.....hang on a minute while I take my size nine wellie out of my mouth.

Diva

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 07:07 PM

Will be at Penicuik for their forthcoming festival, October 5th-7th (how's that for a plug): Brian Millar's a great singer, usually wins the traditional singing comp. If you read this, Brian, it's a definite request for Sunday p.m.! I shall be listening hard with my manuscript paper in front of me to see where I went wrong!! Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 07:44 PM

Thanks for singing it, Brian: but I forgot the manuscript paper! Yes, slightly different from what I wrote. When/where does Tranent meet, so I can hear it from the author? Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:01 PM

Davie Robertson, as far as I know, still goes to the Haddington Folk Club which meets (or used to) on Wednesdays. Can't remember the name of the Hotel bar but it is in the main square in Haddington.

While wee are on the subject, I owe Malcolm Douglas a big apology. I promised to send him Davie Robertson's tape, so that he could amend the midi accordingly. I was all set to mail it on September 11th , and somehow it slipped my mind.

Malcolm, I will mail it this Saturday for sure. Don't know how long it will take to get there with all the mail precautions this end, but it WILL arrive eventually. (Hopefully minus any stray anthrax spores ..........:-)

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:07 PM

Not to worry, Murray: I'm just the same about remembering things!  Once I have the tape, I'll put in a link here and on the other thread to the amended version.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From:
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 02:30 PM

I take your point about the unaccompanied bit, but I only heard it once in Dundee about a month ago.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 05:12 PM

For the benefit of Malcolm, and anybody wondering about the MIDI, let me say that I mailed the tape to him today at 4.00 pm EST.

Public apologies for one of the worst cases of procrastination in the history of mankind. I am sure once he receives it we will be treated to a MIDI which accurately reflects Davie Robertson's rendition.

btw, I was unable to find the cassette insert, Malcolm, so you will have to wade your way through until you find the Star o' the Bar. I will mail it to you if and when I do find it. (I hope you haven't moved !)

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 06:18 PM

Carol Prior sings a pretty good version (and is a star of the bar in her own right).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 07:04 PM

Isn't it her hubbie Alan who usually sings this?

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Star O' The Bar
From: Mikey joe
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 03:49 AM

Hello Charles@calsay

Just wondering? Where in Dundee did you hear it?? Was it the West Port Bar??

Mj