Raise your Banners

Subject: Raise your Banners
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 05:05 PM

I hadn't really considered the different kinds of 'folk' music before Sidmouth, while there I noticed my friend take a strong dislike to the more 'political' songs. I think she wanted to be entertained not lectured yet I was quite happy with all the songs I heard during the week. So I am wondering if most Mudcatters are like my friend and are not too happy with the political songs that portray recent history events

I think I will go this one by my self RAISE YOUR BANNERS

Subject: RE: Raise your Banners
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 05:12 PM

Roger -

"As soon as this pub closes ?"

Gareth

And look carefully at the address that the Echo.jpg is hosted on - with kind permission of the Webmaster.

Subject: RE: Raise your Banners
From: Marymac90
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 05:18 PM

Roger, I would sure like to go, but I think it's not a great idea for me, given I've just started a new job this summer. Perhaps I can go to the next one, in two years.

It seems to be somewhat similiar to the People's Music Network over here, which I attend regularly.

Marymac

Subject: RE: Raise your Banners
From: GUEST,andymac
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 02:29 AM

I feel quite strongly on this as a lot of my political knowledge has come from hearing songs and then being moved enough by them to research the events that caused the song to be written. Raise your Banners is an event I've never attended due to work but my wife goes whenever possible and comes back enriched and energised from it. Your friend should ask why they listen to folk music if they are not paying attention to the story being narrated in the songs, perhaps she doesn't like ballads either. An example of the emotions that political songs produce can be seen in the thread on the 1913 massacre. I hope you enjoy Raise Your banners, I wish I was going too.

Subject: RE: Raise your Banners
From: AliUK
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 02:40 AM

Political and social awareness songs are what actualy got me really into folk music in the first place. I used to listen to a lot of Punk and Ska ( two-tone...the Specials etc.) which was heavily political when I was a ween and when I got into folk music it was like finding the mother load. Plus in the U.K a lot of the people involved were politically on the left. So while my romantic imagination was stimulated by the beauty of She Moves Through the Fair, my social awareness was stirred by the Diggers Song or Little Tim McGuire.

Subject: RE: Raise your Banners
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 02:03 PM

1980 Coventry - 2001 Oldham ? Do you remember the good old days before the ghost town? We danced and sang and the music playing in a da boomtown.

This town is 'coming like a ghost town Why must the youths fight against themselves?

Subject: RE: Raise your Banners
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 02:48 PM

I think there are a few pretty intelligent people out there who can shed light on political issues through song. I think there are a lot more people who think that having some musical ability makes them qualified to preach to the rest of us. Expressing emotions through music is fine, but a lot of the folks who are into "topical" songwriting don't know enough about the subject matter to instruct the rest of us on what's right. For example, how many of the performers in the "No Nukes" concerts of the late 1970's knew anything at all about nuclear power, or any of the "alternative" energy options? In most cases, when I want to learn about an important and complex political issue, my first instinct is not to ask a singer/songwriter.

Subject: RE: Raise your Banners
From: GeorgeH
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 07:51 AM

Whistle Stop: why is it any harder to "spread light on political issues through song" than deal with any other issue in song?

Oh, and almost all of the "No Nukes" performers knew vastly more about the issues of Nuclear power than did the general public; it is a popular misconception that "activists" are ill-informed on the subjects which concern them. (While I admit they are often partially informed, being too ready to reject the "official line" out of hand, this still leaves them better informed than "the public", since the "official" line is generally to avoid informing the public".

Political issues are issues of humanity, above all else. As such they are the "bread and butter" of folk songs. In addition, the various folk revivals have been driven by the passion and commitment of the political left; without them we simply would not have the body of folk song with which we are all familiar.

Which is not to deny that there are some aweful political songs (though the proportion of "duds" is no higher than with "singer/songwriter" output in general). And, of course, there is a body of song intended for comfort and succour of those who are already converted.

A good political song has the advantage of stripping away the bullshit and leaving you with the essential question. I'll cite "Stand up for Judas" as an example (simply because it doesn't raise any CURRENT political issue) - as it happens I don't agree with its anti-Christian sentement, but it poses questions which anyone who claims to be Christian ought to be asking his/her self.

G.

Subject: RE: Raise your Banners
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 08:31 AM

I don't object to political songs per se, and in fact there are some that I have regard highly. I think a song like "Lyndon Johnson Told the Nation" by Tom Paxton makes a very compelling point, in a way that perhaps could not have been made as well in another medium. But I've heard a lot more bad ones than good ones. Some topical songs are quite enlightening, but a lot of them are obvious propaganda in a pretty package. And I see no reason why I should credit a lame message more because it's conveyed in music.

[I don't know "Stand Up For Judas," and am neither an Christian nor an anti-Christian, so I can't really comment on that one.]

As for the relative knowledge of "activists," I have a good deal of experience with this, as I have worked in the environmental protection field since the 1970's (in both the public and private sectors). I find that a lot of activists are NOT particularly well-informed on the issues, and are not all that interested in exploring them in a balanced, objective way. I think that a lot of people become "advocates" when they should still be in the learning stage -- and after they make the shift from student to teacher, they use most of their brain power to support, defend and advance their positions, rather than to reexamine them.

Anyway, the question Roger asked was whether "most Mudcatters are like [his] friend and are not too happy with the political songs that portray recent events." Speaking only for myself, of course, I think Roger's friend and I have a lot in common.