BS: UK Librarians - advice please

Subject: UK Librarians - advice please
From: Mudcatter
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 10:09 AM

This is a totally selfish thread, I can't see anyone except me benefitting - so general apologies for that.

Anyway, I'm in the middle of completing a job application, for work in a library.

It's mostly IT based and I can fulfil those criteria well.

However, I also need to have a "knowledge of copyright regulations and issues"

Would someone be kind enough to point me in the right direction, in terms of what the issues are? Anything really

Many thanks

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 10:28 AM

Try HERE (Library Association webpage)
RtS (been trying to understand copyright for 30 years, just as I think I understand it the buggers change the rules!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: MC Fat
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 10:35 AM

Mudcatter, As an ex-libris copyright regulations are in the main to do with photocopying books, magazines and maps etc are protected by law and it is an infringement to copy large tracts of these 'at will'. You can however copy certain parts for study use and can copy a small part (A4 ish) size of Ordenance Survey Maps.As you should already know it is against the law to copy recorded music. The best advice I can give is a/ visit the library and have a look at the posters displayed next to the self-service photocopier b/ have a look and see if there is a web site re copyright. The only other copyright issue that involves libraries is that a number of copies ( it's either 5 or 6) of each book published in the UK have to be deposited by law with the British Library. Hope the info helps and best of luck with the job.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: MC Fat
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 10:37 AM

Roger Having been an associate of the Library Association for many years i can say that that venerable organisation knows diddly shit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 10:47 AM

MC, I've been a member since 1968 and would normally agree with you, but in this case their site has many useful documents on the subject. In the Educational sector it is VERY complicated, especially for e-learning. Most institutions now have staff doing nothing but negotiate permissions which were hitherto freely available.
RtS (aka Conan the Librarian)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: Mudcatter
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 11:31 AM

Thanks guys

I think my application will comment on the fact that I have a basic understanding of the issues but would be 'pleased' to receive extra training :-)

I will also quote the Library Association website, so thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 11:37 AM

Now that I have the attention of UK librarians, this might be a good place to ask a question that has been bugging me a long time.

I notice that paperback books published in the UK usually (maybe always?) have a notice printed on the copyright page that says something like, "This book is sold on the condition that it not be resold in any binding other than its original binding . . ." Sometimes this notice is prefixed with the phrase, "Except in the United States . . ." Books published in the US have nothing like this. Yet I have never seen any wholesale rebinding and reselling of books, probably because it would be uneconomical to do so.

As far as I know, rebinding of books is an expensive process that is never undertaken except when replacement copies are very rare or unobtainable, and in that case, I can't imagine why a publisher would object.

So why is this notice deemed necessary in the UK and not in the US?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 11:44 AM

Jim, publishers are a whole different animal!US books often say something to the effect that if the book is offered for sale without its cover its been nicked!
I don't know how a publisher could stop a re-sale after a(say) craft bookbinder had rebound it for a client. Libraries often used to (when we could afford it) bind paperbacks to increase their shelf life but the cost is now more than the hardback.
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 04:08 PM

Here is the statement from a US paperback book. "If you purchased this book without a cover, you should be aware that this book is stolen property. It was reported as "unsold and destroyed" to the publisher and neither the author nor the publisher has received any payment for this "stripped book."" To go into this in more detail would require me to know more about publisher-dealer contracts and US tax laws than I want to know.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 04:12 PM

A lot of stores rip the covers off unsold stock when returning it to the wholesaler - this renders it unsaleable but also renders it unattractive to the would be book thief. This means that the publisher can claw back the cost of the unsold books via the tax person, the author doesn't lose any copyrights through bootleg sales and the printer can repulp and recycle the lot.

And in 8 years of working in a public library with reference sections, the one and only copyright question I was ever asked concerned the O/S maps, and their rules are clearly displayed on the back of the map anyway.

There are rules about copying reference material, something like one chapter of a reference book or up to two thirds of a pamphlet unless it's under 4 pages or something.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 06:16 PM

Dicho: Yes, I have seen that notice, "If you purchased this book without a cover . . ." in SOME paperback books printed in the US, but most still don't have it. It's probably equally true for all paperback books in the US, it's just that not all US publishers have adopted this particular tactic to try to prevent piracy.

Liz the Squeak: I believe the procedure you describe - tearing off the front cover of a paperback book, returning the cover to the wholesaler, and sending the rest to a paper recycler - is done here in the US, too. It is also done with magazines.

So now, I understand a bit more clearly what the notice is meant to prevent, but it still seems mysterious, if the same procedure is used in both the US and the UK, why the legal notice is necessary in the UK and not in the US. But I suppose that belongs to the esoteric field of publishing law, and the law, as we know, is an ass.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 08:07 PM

The admonition "If you purchased..." appeared in the US in 1991-1992. It only appears in what are called "trade paperbacks" which are withdrawn after a certain limited time. It does not appear in soft cover books that have no limit to their "shelf life."

Subject: RE: BS: UK Librarians - advice please
From: Burke
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 08:44 PM

IT & copyright is a huge issue for libraries right now. I all has to do with what can be digitized & what people can do with digitized materials they have purchased. If you were in the US I'd tell you to find out about the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) that is highly restrictive. The UK probably has an equivalent.

On the paperbacks there are different questions going on here. Both have to do with paperbacks' deliberate impermanence.

The full binding statement for UK paperbacks is something to the effect that it shall not be lent, re-sold, hired out or otherwise circulated in other than it's original binding. I think you'd only see these in paperbacks. Basically in the US a library can buy a paperback and send it to a bindery immediately for a more permanent binding. A UK library can't do that. If the paperback wears out, they have to buy a new one. If it's Out of Print there appears to be an out in that one can rebind with the publisher's permission.

I'm in a US library & we save a lot of money on University Press titles by buying the trade paperback editions that are usually the same test block & even issued at the same time as the hardcovers. We used to send them to the bindery immediately, but now wait until they need it. The glues used in paperbacks used to dry out badly so rebinding was very important, but the glues now are much better.

The book without a cover is from mass market paperback sales. My information is based on bookselling practices of 15-20 years ago & things may have changed. Bookstores have arrangements with the publishers that allow them to return unsold stock for refund or credit. This means your bookstores take relatively less risk than other retailers when it comes to selecting their stock & the publishers take more than other producers. With mass market paperbacks, rather than return the stock the retailers would 'strip' the covers and return them to the publishers for credit, just as if they had actually been returned. The book block itself was supposed to be destroyed, but frequently was not. It's considered 'stolen' because the publisher produced it, but did not sell or give it to anyone. With the increased price of even mass market pb's this practice may have changed.

I worked for B.Dalton when I was an undergraduate in their accounts payable dept. I would see chargebacks that listed just numbers of covers (in the hundreds) & the cover price for use in calculating the credits.