Origins: Give My Love to Nell

Subject: Give my love to Nell
From: Louie Roy
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:18 PM

Can any one furnish the history on this tune?I know the lyrics and the only info I have it was recorded by Bradley Kincaid no date when.I also have info it was written in 1931 author unknown,but I firmly believe it was an Irish Ballad written many many years ago.Comments and thanks.Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Help: Give my love to Nell
From: JenEllen
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:24 PM

The recording I have (not at hand) was by Dave Miller on the 'West Virginia Hills: Early Recordings From West Virginia' album. Someplace that might have more info is the Old Homestead Recordings? The e-mail address is [e-mail]
Hope it helps,
~J

Subject: RE: Help: Give my love to Nell
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:17 PM

Louie Roy--

I found the song in Songs of the Pioneers, Book 1, copyright 1970 by Albert E. Brumley & Sons, Powell, Missouri. Unfortunately, it gives no information on where the song might have been found before that, only that it was a "folk" or "pioneer" traditional song.

It's possible they might know more about its origins. The book gives a mailing address of:

Pioneer Song Book
345 West Highway 54
Camdenton, MO 65020

Good luck!

Lin

Subject: RE: Help: Give my love to Nell
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:26 PM

Weren't they Charles II's last dying words? Nell Gwynn being the Nell concerned.

Subject: Origins: Give my love to Nell
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 02:39 PM

More on the lines of Be kind to poor Nelly, IIRC.

The earliest Give My Love to Nell reference I can find offhand is to a songbook of 1931: Walter Peterson, "The Kentucky Wonder Bean": Sensational Collection of Mountain Ballads and Old Time Songs:  Old Time Country and Western Music Souvenirs and Song Books.

However, Bruce E. Baker's  More Than Square Dance Music  implies that the song was known at least as early as 1915, and perhaps before.  I can't say that it strikes me as in any way Irish, or particularly old, but one never knows.

Subject: RE: Help: Give my love to Nell
From: Louie Roy
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:04 PM

Thanks for all of the helpful info and I do track down all leads and if I find something more about this song I will post the info Thanks again Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Help: Give my love to Nell
From: kendall
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 05:10 PM

What are you trying to do? Posting a question about music. The nerve of some people! *BG*

Subject: RE: Help: Give my love to Nell
From: Louie Roy
Date: 21 Sep 01 - 10:46 PM

kendall,when you don't have the answer to a song you ask the advice of the many well versed people in Mudcat and they normally come through with the correct answers,but apparently you don't fit this elite group Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Help: Give my love to Nell
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Sep 01 - 12:51 AM

BG actually means something like *BigGrin*--and he is being wry on account of a the thread where some take issue with the fact that there is talk about things that are not strictly music related--Kendall actually knows a few things about music himself(or so he tells us)--

Subject: ADD Version: Give My Love to Nell
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 04:04 PM

This is almost the same as what we have in the Digital Tradition, but there are a few differences that might be helpful. I see no reason why it should be added to the database.
-Joe Offer-

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GIVE MY LOVE TO NELL

Three years ago since Jack and Joe
Set sail across the foam
Each vowed a fortune he would make
Before returning home
In one short year Jack gained his wealth
And started home that day
And when these pals shook hands to part
Poor Joe could only say:

REFRAIN
Give my love to Nellie, Jack
And kiss her once for me
The sweetest girl in all this world
I'm sure you will agree
Treat her kindly Jack, old pal
And tell her I am well
His parting words were, "Don't forget
To give my love to Nell."

Three years had passed when Joe at last
Gained wealth enough for life
He started home across the foam
To make sweet Nell his wife
But when he learned that Jack and Nell
One year ago had wed
With sobs and tears he now regrets
That he had ever ever said:

REFRAIN

They chanced to meet upon the street
Joe said, "You selfish elf,
The next girl that I learn to love
I'll kiss her for myself
But all is fair in love, they say
As you have gone and wed
I'll not be angry with you, Jack,"
So once again he said:

Source: Alfred E. Brumley's "Songs of the Pioneers," Volume 1

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There's a recording at the American Memory Collection (click) of the Library of Congress. I don't know how to link directly to the recording - search for the exact phrase Jack and Joe.

Subject: Origins: Give My Love to Nell
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 04:38 PM

Ah, there's more, so let's tag this thread as an origins thread.
-Joe Offer-

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Jack and Joe

DESCRIPTION: Jack and Joe set sail to seek their fortunes. Jack is quickly successful. As he prepares to go home, Joe ask him to "Give my love to Nellie, Jack, Kiss her once for me." When Joe at last heads home, he finds that Jack has married Nellie
AUTHOR: William B. Gray
EARLIEST DATE: 1894
KEYWORDS: love work exile return infidelity marriage
FOUND IN: US(Ap,MW,Ro,SE,So)
REFERENCES (4 citations):
Randolph 813, "Jack and Joe" (1 text, 1 tune)
McNeil-SFB1, pp. 116-118, "Jack and Joe" (1 text, 1 tune)
BrownII 274, "Jack and Joe" (3 texts plus 1 excerpt and mention of 10 more)
Abrahams/Foss, pp. 67-68, "Jack and Joe" (1 text, 1 tune)
Roud #782
RECORDINGS:
Blue Ridge Mountain Singers, "Give My Love to Nell" (Columbia 15580-D, 1930)
Roy Harvey & the North Carolina Ramblers, "Give My Love to Nell" (Paramount 3065, 1937/Broadway 8080, c. 1931)
Bradley Kincaid, "Give My Love to Nell" (Supertone 9350, 1929) (Brunswick 403, c. 1930)
Asa Martin, "Give My Love to Nellie, Jack" (Conqueror 7745, 1931)
David Miller, "Give My Love to Nell, Jack" (Challenge 392, c. 1928)
Riley Puckett, "Jack and Joe" (Columbia 15139-D, 1927)
George Reneau, "Jack and Joe" (Vocalion 15182, 1926)
Ernest V. Stoneman, "Jack and Joe" (OKeh 40408, 1925)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Give My Love to Nell
Notes: The author, William B. Gray, is also responsible for "She's More to Be Pitied Than Censured." - RBW
File: R813

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Subject: GIVE MY LOVE TO NELL^^^
From:
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 02:41 PM

My grandfather used to sing this to me when i was a kid. It was my favorite song...this is how i remember it...

GIVE MY LOVE TO NELL

Three years ago since Jack and Joe
Set sail across the foam
Each vowed a fortune he would gain
Before returning home
In one short year Jack gained his wealth
And started home that day
And when the pals shook hands to part
Poor Joe could only say.

REFRAIN:
Give my love to Nellie, Jack
And kiss her once for me
The sweetest girl in all this world
I'm sure you'll say is she
Treat her kindly Jack, old pal
And tell her I am well
His parting words were don't forget
To give my love to Nell.

Three years had passed when Joe at last
Gained wealth enough for life
He started home across the foam
To make sweet Nell his wife
But when he learned that Jack and Nell
One year ago had wed
With sobs and tears he now regrets
That he had ever ever said.

REFRAIN

They chanced to meet upon the street
Joe said, you selfish "ELF"
The next girl that I learn to love
I'll kiss her for myself
But all is fair in love, they say
As you have gone and wed
I'll not be angry with you Jack
So once again he said.

REFRAIN
^^^

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As far as I can tell, these are exactly the words in the Digital Tradition.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyrics: Many years ago, Jack and Joe
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 03:23 PM

Neat song. I first heard it on I.D. Stamper's album "Red Wing" (Appalshop)and it reminded me of the story line from "North to Alaska" (John Wayne and Stewart Granger?). I.D. said he learned it from "the Adams boys." Guessing from the DT notes, they might have picked it up from Bradley Kincaid.

Subject: RE: Lyrics: Many years ago, Jack and Joe
From: kendall
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 03:44 PM

I must have a hundred of these old things in the back of my head.

Subject: RE: Lyrics: Many years ago, Jack and Joe
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 04:21 PM

American Memory, Voices from the Dustbowl, has "Jack and Joe," sung by a Mrs. Prather.

Subject: RE: Origins: Give My Love To Nell
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:52 PM

Brown North Carolina Folklore has 4 versions, and there's one each in Randolph's Ozark Folksongs and McNeil's Southern Folk Ballads. The versions are all so similar that I see no need to post them. The notes from McNeil are interesting, however:

This ballad was written in 1894 by William B. Gray, a vaudevillian who got his start in show business as a member of the Glenroy Brothers, exhibition boxers. As a songwriter Gray (Glenroy) achieved several successes in the 1890's, among them "The Volunteer Organist" (1893), the present song, "Old Jim's Christmas Hymn" (1896), and "She's More to Be Pitied Than Censured" (1898). He even tried his hand at making a song of the poem "The Picture on the Floor" (generally known as "The Face on the Barroom Floor") but it wasn't very successful. Gray (Glenroy) was also active as a singer, usually teaming as part of a duet with Henry Lamb. The singing partners also were involved in the music publishing business, Glenroy using his pseudonym Gray and Lamb using that of George Spaulding. Although Gray—Lamb's publishing company had a number of successful publications it is remembered today primarily as one of George M. Cohan's first employers.
Gray's song has been reported from traditional singers in Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, Illinois, Florida, Utah, and North Carolina. It is likely, though, that the ballad would be reported even more often except that many collectors are prejudiced against material that originated in Tin Pan Alley and have simply ignored it. Most texts reported to date show only minor variations and changes from version to version, suggesting that it is still largely dependent on mass media sources such as commercial records.

Subject: RE: Origins: Give My Love To Nell
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 09:33 PM

Max Hunter has three versions, one of which is very different, called "Two Little Lads."

Sheet music is given, as well as audio. Twelve verses, about Jack and "Tom." After a while, Jack dies, and Tom marries the gal- not a happy marriage for Tom- but comic for us.
Two Little Lads

Subject: RE: Origins: Give My Love To Nell
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Oct 03 - 02:05 PM

Lyr. Add: TWO LITTLE LADS

Two little lads, they had been friends
Ever since childhood days
Until one day, they met a fair maid
An angel with charming ways.

Both fell in love, each tried to win
This little maiden fair
Till sad was the day, the words she did say
They sent Tom away, in despair.

Years passed on, Jack won her hand
Just as the story goes
Until one day, in the middle of May
In th alter those two were made one.

Rush honeymoon, they returned soon,
Jack met poor Tom one day
Brace up my lad, don't look so sad,
Then Tom, to Jack, did say-

Jack, how I envy you
I envy you, Jack, yes I do
I know you won her fair an' square
I hope she'll be true to you.

I wish you much joy, ole boy
And here is my hand on it too
Jack, I'm not mad, for she loved you, my lad
Tho' I envy you Jack, yes I do.

They lived happy, both Jack and his wife
Until one fatal day
Sickness came on, poor Jack wasn't strong
And it called his dear life away.

His wife at the grave, O, how she did rave
For she knew not what to do
Till Tom came along, with a voice clear and strong
Says, sweetheart I'll marry you.

Years passed on, after the wed
Children, they now have four
Baby cries at night, Papa and Mamma, they fight
And Papa sleeps on the floor.

Poor Tom'll look back and think of poor Jack
While passing his grave, each day
He would stop with a sigh, for th tears filled his eyes
And those are the words he would say-

Jack, how I envy you
Why, I envy you Jack, yes I do
I know your troubles are o'er and passed
I'd gladly change places with you.

How happy you must be
I once't was happy too
You're far away, I'll be with you some day
Tho' I envy you Jack, yes, I do.

Mrs. Pearl Brewer, Pocahontas, Arkansas, 1958, with sheet music (two tunes- one for verse 1-4, 7-10 and another for 5 and 11) and audio.
Quite a different take from the original "Jack and Joe." From Max Hunter Coll., link given in post above, Q, 02 Oct 03.

Haven't found the original by Gray, 1894. There is a version in the Wolf Coll., but it offers nothing new.

Classmates.com has taken the "Give My Love to Nell," Bradley Kincaid version (in the DT), given it a fancy background, and use it as an adv. on Genealogy-Rootsweb.

Subject: RE: Origins: Give My Love To Nell
From: GUEST,Eve
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:23 PM

The words that Q sent were nearer to the one that I remember my husband singing when I first met him back in 1942

Subject: RE: Origins: Give My Love to Nell
From: GUEST,Schmaltz
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 06:48 PM

You can hear the recording by the "Blue Ridge Mountain Singers" at the link below:

http://www.raeproductions.com/music/lvnel.html

Subject: RE: Origins: Give My Love to Nell
From: GUEST,Ron
Date: 12 Apr 09 - 11:25 AM

I have the recording done by Chet Atkins and Les Paul.

Subject: RE: Origins: Give My Love to Nell
From: GUEST,Guest, Floyd
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 01:53 AM

In the early 1940s, I remember sitting by mother at the piano. She graduated from high school in Greer County Oklahoma, in 1913 her diploma shows that one of her subjects was music. Mother and dad married in 1917. I always assumed (though she never said so) that this was one of the songs they would sing back in their courting days.