A Perspective - If I may

Subject: A Perspective - If I may
From: Ed in the clouds
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 08:54 AM

Each year from 1991 to 2000, an average of 211 million people were killed or affected by natural disasters, seven times greater than the figure for those killed or affected by conflict. Globally during the last decade, natural disasters alone killed an average of nearly 1,300 people every week. Nations of low or medium human development provided 98 per cent of the victims.

Since the 1950s, costs associated with natural disasters have rocketed 14-fold. Meanwhile the world's richest nations donated just 0.39 per cent of their 1999 gross national products (GNPs) in annual overseas aid, half the amount the United Nations (UN) considers necessary. Of this figure, a fraction is invested in preventing disasters. Yet research suggests that US$ 40 billion spent in disaster mitigation would have reduced global economic losses in the 1990s by US$ 280 billion.

Click here for more information.

What has happened in America is of course, too dreadful for words. Mourn for your own people. I join with you in that, we are all fragile people.

However, before talk of retribution and 'justice' (is that a joke?) please remember these people too.

211 Million!

Beyond comprehension, isn't it?

All with fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. Pregnant women dying to protect their children. Many (literally millions) with stories far more harrowing than those which millionare actors chose to share with us on national TV.

Makes 7,000 sound kinda small I guess.

I'm sorry if this is considered to be a flame.

I needed to say this. Thank you for reading

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Ed in the clouds
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 08:58 AM

Bugger, a clean up of my html would be good if anyone can.

Thanks

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Ed in the clouds
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 09:03 AM

oh yes, and before anyone makes the obvious point that this is different because it was an 'attack'

Just think about how so many people in our world are suffering...

$10 to them maybe???

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: GUEST,just a nobody
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 09:12 AM

Do we neglect... sure... hopefully that will change. I didn't check your link, time restraints and all. Does the figure include that of private groups? The Red Cross, and others also contribute greatly to aid in disasters. The reason I ask is because large sums of money go into humanitarian efforts that would seem to be excluded from monetary amounts donated by the government directly.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: LR Mole
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 09:13 AM

Well, the point is taken, I suppose. But attention paid to either sort of tragedy is symbolic for those of us not there and physically helping. As is money, come to think of it.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 09:23 AM

Around 200 Million every year? Are you sure thats accurate? Just seems way too high a figure, to me.....

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: sophocleese
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 09:47 AM

Its a fairly normal state of humanness to ignore those tragedies and problems which do not directly impinge on your life. This is why it is so difficult to keep up public interest in ongoing issues of justice and social change. However when a tragedy occurs and suddenly the problem is no longer 'somewhere else' a lot of people turn their energy towards solving it and helping others in similar straits. Witness those experienced with the Oklahoma bombing travelling to NY to help there. With luck this may turn out to be a pivotal event for the world if it means a lot more energy into some justice for all.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 10:11 AM

People trip over rocks and die from hitting their head every day...but if you have someone evil wandering through YOUR neighborhood hitting people on the head and killing them, your cold statistics and 'perspective' go right out the window. And if they conduct their killing by causing multi-billions in damage and disruptions to travel, industry, and financial markets world-wide, your statistics are of little interest.

Except for THIS ....everything those terrorists did is ADDED to the other disasters and misery...not instead of...........

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 10:25 AM

Ed a perspective, In the September attacks I would say the Number affected is a lot more than the 7,000 dead.

there were propably 30,000 injured, 100,000 airline jobs, the people who lost money in the worldwide stock market. the present refugees in Afghanistan. Travel industry, Air port security. Psychological damage. Bigoted attacks on Moslems, lost work....I'd say the number Affected by this one attack could conservatively estimated at One Billion.

But preventing and giving shelter during floods and feeding the hungry are still important.

From the report...

Floods accounted for over two-thirds of the annual average of 211 million people affected by natural disasters, while famine affected nearly one-fifth. Yet floods proved less deadly, accounting for 15 per cent of deaths from natural disasters, compared to famine's 42 per cent.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 10:29 AM

Sorry.....NOW I understand that the figure includes those affected in whatever way....

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Ed in the clouds
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 02:40 PM

Jack,

Of course you are right. And of course, the Red Cross use the highest figure of casulties, they can find, to make their point.

Sorry, I'm perhaps not myself at the moment, but stuff like the 'Telethon' made me mad as hell.

Nothing wrong with mourning the dead from this dreadful deed of course.

But, you'd need a telethon 24 hours a day, every day if you wanted to help all the poor in the world.

How many American actors put on black ties, and look concerned for the people dying from famine and disaster, in Asia and Africa today? Not last week, not yesterday, but TODAY - NOW

Sorry, I'm just a bit tearful and mad at the moment

Ed

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 02:50 PM

Ed

Your point is well taken, Why don't they do "Live Aid" every year?

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 02:58 PM

A more effective persppective I think:

Ask not what THEY do (or do not do), or define that which you think THEY should do.

YOU (generic) do what YOU can do and maybe that will inspire people to join with you.

And BTW, in three years of association with Red Cross, our tiny, poor area raised a LOT of money for overseas disasters. More than was given spontaneously for local disasters, and we had them. People give far more than I think you have realized, and have done so, for years.

Judging how people feel and how much they care and how much they give, by what you see on TV, is just silly.

~Susan

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM

Very true Susan. I'm also with Bill here.....this is a kind of apples and oranges comparison, but yes Ed, I do get your point.

BTW, there's joke in this somewhere.....Something perhaps about the towers "going up" again? I heard that Pfizer donated 15 million to the rescue and recovery effort. Pfizer makes Viagra.

Spaw

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 04:10 PM

I take your point, Ed, and I share your grief and anger.

Sixty some-odd people were killed when Mount St. Helens erupted. Many were killed when the freeway collapsed during the San Francisco earthquake. Volcanos, earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, the catalog goes on and on, without even mentioning diseases and epidemics.

But it seems to me that, somehow, there is a qualitative difference between dying in a natural disaster or of an illness and being killed by your own species. Sure, you're still dead, but....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 04:55 PM

I see Bill's point But I think that the last disaster claimed that many people in this hemisphere was a civil war battle. And very few disasters kill that many people that suddenly. In any perspective this is a big one. It seems like most of the worst ones are caused by man. Dresden, the Battle of the Marne, the famine in Biafra, BohPall India, Chernobyl. So Don I agree with you and further state that there is often a quantitive difference when it is caused by man.

Susan, I think we can both do more ourselves and expect more from our celibrities. It would be hypocritical to ask more from them and not give proportionatly. I am hosting a musical get together here in Coulmbus GA, On Oct. 27, Any and all proceeds will be donated to a worthy cause. I pray that New York will not need us at that time. In that case, another worthy cause.

I think that everyone feels stress from this event. Emotions are high and irritants more keenly felt. I for one have done much soul searching. I hope that the the spirit of hope and generousity continues.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 04:55 PM

There are lots of people working behind the scenes, doing whatever they can to help those 211 million people. You just don't see them on television. I believe there's something in the Good Book about giving your alms in secret?

Just because the media doesn't get aholt of it and we don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Don't despair.

And like Susan said, do what you can and maybe others will be encouraged to follow you.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 05:18 PM

And he sat down over against the treasury, and beheld how the multitude cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

And there came a poor widow, and she cast in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, This poor widow cast in more than all they that are casting into the treasury: for they all did cast in of their superfluity; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Fuck off sactamonious actors!

Mark 12 (Mark didn't say the last bit)

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 05:28 PM

The number of people affected by the bombing is very much higher than we have allowed for here--keep in mind that the average number of deaths per week in natural disasters is about 1,300--which means that the death toll on this one say is the equivalent of all the deaths from natural disasters for at least 5 weeks--

If we compare numbers, we discover that the ratio is that for every 1,300 people killed by a natural disaster, there are about 4 million directly affected--which lets us extrapolate that at least 20 million people are directly effected by the WTC bombing--In fact, I would say that the numbers are much larger even than that, since many of the missing and dead provided essential financial services for people all over the world--

The world-wide financial losses from this one incident dwarf the total that $280 billion yearly total that you mentioned--the stock market losses alone exceed a trillion dollars--Add the lost wages, lost revnues, destruction of property, insurance compensation, et al, and this could be the single most costly disaster in history--

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:44 AM

M Ted,

I don't think so!

Do you remember the Shimantan Dam Disaster?

Go look it up and learn something

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: GeorgeH
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:44 AM

But what could that $280bn do for relieving human misery in this sad world of ours?

(No, I'm not suggesting an either/or choice - but like Ed-i-t-c I find a total lack of perspective in the response to this terrible event.)

This event is a once-in-all-time occurance, because security on US internal flights will be addressed so nothing on this scale will happen again. Whereas those 1300 deaths per week continue, 52 week a year, year in, year out. A war on global poverty really would show true Christian virtue.

G.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:49 AM

Here is the immediate reaction your post evoked, George H.

Oh yeah, let's go after the Christians again.

No Christians I know give a dime to address world poverty. Or work for true solutions. Damn their eyes!

IMO there is a lot of hate-mongering going on in this thread. A lot of good thinking too, but more than enough hate-mongering.

So easy to do here! Is that what this place is for, though?

And does a post that evokes that reaction accomplish any worthwhile goal in relation to world poverty or, indeed, any sort of suffering?

~Susan

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 10:58 AM

Well Susan,

It has made me think a lot

That's more than your pointless threads ever do

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 11:12 AM

Freedom from want for everyone anywhere in the world is a lofty goal. Freedom of speech and expression for everyone in the world is an honest goal. Freedom for anyone to worship as they please anywhere in the world is a desireable goal although some religious dogma has a built in destruct mechanisms. To be free from fear anywhere in the world is our current goal.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: Larry124
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 12:16 PM

"...Freedom of speech and expression for everyone in the world is an honest goal. Freedom for anyone to worship as they please anywhere in the world is a desirable goal although some religious dogma has a built in destruct mechanisms…"

POLITICAL Islam appears fundamentally, uncompromisingly, and unapologetically anti-democratic. Education/discussion unlikely to change it. Will it accept non-violent coexistence? Seems unlikely at present. Otherwise, it has to be contained or destroyed. Their choice. We will respond.

Subject: RE: A Perspective - If I may
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 03:05 PM

GUEST--

Well, actually I did know about that--which is why I used the word "may"--and I was talking about costs in the narrow sense of money--which of course, an artificial measure--

I am sure that you will agree that, in terms of sheer human loss, the Shimantan Dam Disaster was small compared to the flooding of the Huang He River in 1931--