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BS: Enigma--the movie
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Subject: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 28 Sep 01 - 03:56 AM Well, after all the things I said about the US film industry rewriting history, I see we're doing it too! Not on such a dreadful scale (of course). The first point is that the location shots weren't filmed at Bletchley Park, but at Chichely Hall up the road: BP (where "Staion X" was located in the war) was "as ugly a shit", said the director. Well, I didn't get that impression when I visited the place; anyway, think wehat it must have looked like with the grounds full of big wooden army huts! The second point (and there's really no excuse for this): one of the characters is a sneaky Pole, who rats to the Germans about passing on the secrets of the Enigma machine to the Brits. No, repeat no, Pole did any such thing, even the ones who were tortured by the Gestapo. If it hadn't been for these guys (and not the doughboys) we really would be speaking German now. The director had to make a rather grovelling (but honest, I understand) apology to the Polish Embassy chap who was at the premier dinner. OK, rant over! Details on the film here. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 28 Sep 01 - 05:14 AM Steve: did you know that where you work (and I, too) was also involved as part of Station X? Walton Hall was used as a billet and library for the codebreakers... No mention in the history, *of course*, of the use they put Hanslope Park to... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 28 Sep 01 - 05:30 AM That sounds like something I did know but have forgotten, along with the knowledge of having known about it but forgotten it. Happens a lot these days! Maybe I didn't know in the first place. Where i used to live as a kid in Walsall, there had been a dummy airfield in the war. Don't know if it ever fooled the Germans though; I never heard of it being bombed. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: John J Date: 28 Sep 01 - 05:56 AM I understand the film is based on a book of fiction, which is in turn set in the factual site and events that went on at BP. I can thoroughly recommend the (BBC?) publication and TV series 'Station X'. John J |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 28 Sep 01 - 06:27 AM I haven't seen the film either but anyone in the vicinity of Bletchley Park it is well worth a visit, various non-Enigma displays to keep most families interested as well (Churchill display, computer museum, old vehicles and ship models when I went there a couple of years ago). The reconstruction of the broken up Collossus (I think that's its name) computer is awesome! RtS (and if he's not back in Stonall for the weekend, Steve is nearby to give you a cuppa! Heh Heh!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 28 Sep 01 - 07:30 AM Yes, you're welcome to drop in, if you can find me; leave your kazoos at the door, please. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Greyeyes Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:03 AM That's Robert Harris, Steve. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Michael in Swansea Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:50 AM I spent 2 weeks at BP in 1976 on a Post Office, (as it was), training course. One thing I do remember was the smelly geese. Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: kendall Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:57 AM I've had more than one movie ruined by some clown frigging with history. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: GUEST Date: 28 Sep 01 - 09:02 AM B.P.? Baden Powell? The founder of "Scouting for Boys" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: GUEST Date: 28 Sep 01 - 09:03 AM NO. British Patroleum |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 28 Sep 01 - 10:47 AM Oops! I beg Thomas and Robert (and Richard--anybody else?) Harris's pardon. I think I got confuse with Tom Stoppard, who wrote the screenplay. Honest! (Did a quick check on the 'net--a lot of folks out there seem to think R & T are the same person, or at least that one wrote both author's books.) See here for more on Colossus. And whatever the ... (I'm trying very hard not to say 'Yanks'!) ... Americans say about ENIAC, we were definitely first with the electronic computer! Churchill had it all broken up after the war, apart from one or two machines that went to GCHQ, so nobody would kow we could crack the codes--then he gave enigmas to all our allies, so we could read their secret transmissions, the sneaky old bugger. Can't see Our Tone being that Anglo-centric, can you? Oops--political thread creep--ignore this! ? Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 28 Sep 01 - 10:52 AM Forgot--Colossus was for cracking the Lorenz cipher, not the Enigma. Same principle, but fantastically more complex. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: GUEST,Penny S. Date: 28 Sep 01 - 11:10 AM Haven't seen it yet, but the trailer I saw had a field full of oil-seed rape....was that about in the war? I know it wasn't about after the war in Kent and Sussex. Unless it was mustard in Norfolk, perhaps. Penny And Churchill broke up the Skylon before I could get to see it. My parents both went to see it, but they didn't take me! Sorry, thread creep. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Sep 01 - 07:39 PM And his missus burnt the painting of him by Graham Sutherland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 01 Oct 01 - 03:19 AM I can understand about the Sutherland--they both hated it. I don't know about the oilseed rape (they'd have called it flax then, maybe, or linseed), but you can use the oil in unmodified diesel engines, so they might hae grown it for that. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Jack the Sailor Date: 01 Oct 01 - 10:04 AM Didn't you guys know that Enigma was captured by U571?? The great escape was done by Americans. Etc Etc... Hollywood loves to tinker with history! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 01 Oct 01 - 10:52 AM Ah--that explains the oilseed rape! What do you call it in the States? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Peter T. Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:27 AM canola. yours, Peter T. (canadian marketing device) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Naemanson Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:34 AM Well, they have really screwed with history on this one. Wasn't the brilliant mathematician who cracked the codes also gay? If so, why does the movie have him falling in love with a woman? Why not kidnap his boyfriend? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: GUEST,Steve Parkes Date: 01 Oct 01 - 12:21 PM Ah, the real one, Alan Turing, was gay, but the fictional one has to conform to readers'/cinema-goers' standards. And anyway, Turing had a girlfriend at Bletchley Park; I believe the lady (name escapes me--I beg her pardon) is still living. At least Harris's hero is British and can be relied on for a stiff upper lip. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 04 Oct 01 - 10:28 AM Just found this in the local rag: The teenage war heroes . . . By Duncan Tift A former stamp dealer from Hednesford has emerged as one of the most unlikely heroes of the Second World War. Peter Godwin was just 15 when, together with his brother John, he was enlisted into the Radio Security Service. The service was the ultra-secret organisation which intercepted Enigma-coded German radio communications. From the bedroom of their home in High Mount Street the two boys - much as today's teenagers use the Internet - passed their evenings glued to their radio sets. But rather than listening to music, the brothers intercepted top secret messages being sent between German military intelligence and the Gestapo. "We had no idea at the time how important the messages were. All we had to do was write them down and then send them off to a post office box number," said Peter, who now lives in Crewe. The letter drop, unknown to the boys, was the headquarters of Britain's codebreaking boffins at Bletchley Park, Buckinghamshire. The work carried out at the secret centre is currently being told in the feature film Enigma starring Kate Winslet and Dougray Scott, and based on the best-selling book of the same name by author Robert Harris. Back in the early days of the war the Atlantic convoys were a lifeline to Britain supplying overseas aid. However, the ships suffered appaling losses as German U-boats, guided by Enigma-coded messages, were able to pick them off almost at will. However, the tables turned when the Allies managed to steal one of the Enigma machines and, unknown to the Germans, break the codes they used. British Intelligence then enlisted around 1,500 amateur radio operators up and down the country and asked them to monitor a specific wavelength. Peter, now 74, said: "John had started learning Morse Code and got me interested later. He joined the RSS first and then mentioned me to the powers that be and I joined afterwards." Peter, who like John, attended Rugeley Grammar School, is modest about his work - even though it may have helped to save many lives. "We didn't realise at the time but now we know how important the work of Bletchley Park was." Peter and John, who now lives in Leicestershire, are thought to be the only survivors of eight-strong team of listeners which covered the Cannock Chase area. Both have received the Freedom of Bletchley park for their work and have been included on the centre's roll of honour. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: The Walrus at work Date: 04 Oct 01 - 01:04 PM Mention of Alan Turing reminds me of something I heard a short while back. Turing committed suicide by injecting an apple with a cyanide compound and biting into it. This act was the reason (according to my source) behind the choice of logo for the "Apple" computer. Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 05 Oct 01 - 03:42 AM That really is an interesting anecdote. I'd really like to believe it, but isn't it a bit... well, camp? (smells like an urban legend?) Did this apple have 'kallisto' written on it in ancient Greek by any chance? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: GUEST,Steve Parkes Date: 05 Oct 01 - 04:04 AM It's (more or less) true, Dai. Turing was using the cyanide powder in some chemical stuff he was working on, and the apple got coated in it, then he ate the apple. His mother never believed he did it deliberately, but then she never new he was gay till he got arrested for it. He'd been depressed over the way his life was going for a long time, and it looked like he might be chucked out of his university job and lose his career because of the court case; also he was being watched by the security services as a potential blackmail-by-the Russians risk, because he knew a lot of secret stuff from Betchley Park. The coroner decided it was suicide. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 05 Oct 01 - 05:21 AM Well, well. I knew he had a tragic end, and I've been somewhat perturbed by the recent speculation about conspiracies and so forth (revisionism is something I'd rather not get involved in). Is it true that Jobs and Wosniak chose the Apple Computer logo because of this story, though? I'm tempted to do some research... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 05 Oct 01 - 05:27 AM Well, I've just found this entry on c|net with a nice picture of the first Apple logo (top left corner of the page)... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 05 Oct 01 - 05:34 AM and this article by Jeff Goodell suggests that the name came from a holiday taken by Steve Jobs in Oregon... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Murray MacLeod Date: 05 Oct 01 - 06:21 AM Maybe the Apple logo came from the Adam and Eve legend .....Tree of Knowledge and all that stuff. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Penny S. Date: 05 Oct 01 - 05:19 PM Linseed/flax has blue flowers. I think that if rape had been grown in the war there would have been a lot of escapes around, and my mother, who grew up on a farm, wouldn't have called the yellow flowered cruciferae we saw by the name of charlock. A bit trivial, compared with rewriting Turing. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Mr Red Date: 05 Oct 01 - 07:18 PM Walrus - doesn't the Apple logo tell the true story - it has a byte out of it. I buy into the story, I heard it on R4 in a 7.30pm film review. If one of the founders was gay it would be hard to ignore. Steve - Walsall airport was no dummy. It was used to fuel and store planes in transit, not sure about Spitfires but one of the rarer American planes was mentioned. I knew a man who worked there and he told stories that confirmed this. The council were so hopeful of making it into the aircraft age they built a dual carriageway to it. All but for the canal bridge bit. I saw the Ch 4 documentary screened as a subtle advert for the film but remember one a few years ago where Turing's girlfriend talked of her friendship. "Platonic" was writ large, even taking into account the mores of the time, though BP was not exactly typical - apparently. Women outnumbered men more than 5 to 1. Someone of Turing's intellect would surely chose a decoy, given the laws then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Grab Date: 05 Oct 01 - 08:20 PM Red, Turing was surely intelligent, but not necessarily of the real world. The Station X programme on C4 had a woman who said she approached him to talk to him, and he practically ran in the other direction - extremely scared of women. I doubt he'd've married a woman as a "decoy" any more than you'd cuddle up to a python to protect you from the tarantulas... Bletchley was atypical for the period generally, but very typical of a WW2 working environment. Most offices and factories were worked by women whilst the men were busy getting shot at. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: Steve Parkes Date: 08 Oct 01 - 04:01 AM Mr Red, yes I know Walsall airport was real--my dad worked there when it was Helliwell's (sp?) and later T.I. It's still called "The Airport" today. The dummy one was what became Beechdale--next to where they later built the power station. Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Enigma--the movie From: GUEST,Kit Kat Date: 08 Oct 01 - 08:26 AM I do wish other countries wouldn't help themselves to bits of our history to glorify their own. I understand it makes a hell of a good story, but it is encouraging people to believe a version of history that is untrue and detracts from the contribution made by real people - who (shock horror) may not always be American! I watched some film the other night by Steven Spielberg (NOT saving Ryan's Privates) and you would never have known that there had been any other nation involved in WWII. Without some knowledge of history, it would also have been pretty hard to find out who the enemy was supposed to be. I switched it off with an exasperated sigh in the end. KIt Kat |