Nic Jones Unearthed

Subject: Nic Jones Unearthed - Shameless Plug
From: GUEST,Tony in Belgium
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:04 AM

I just had a note from Julia to say that Nic Jones' new double CD - "Unearthed" - will be released on 1 November. A collection of live club, concert and studio recordings from his playing days. If you haven't heard of or about Nic, his superb playing, his tragic accident, the subsequent shameful suppression of his recordings, check out the archives here. CD is 16 pounds 99 from Julia at Mollie Music, 52 Newland Park Drive, York YO10 3HP, UK. I normally hate it when people use the board for plugs, but this I think is a special case and is news that'll interest many folkies.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Nemesis
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:18 AM

HI, is there web address or something - for us overseas purchasers?

Cheers

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Tony in Belgium
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:23 AM

Online purchasers, go to www.fishrecords.co.uk Thanks for the interest

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 06:49 AM

www.fishrecords.co.uk This will certainly be on my Christmas shopping list.

Murray

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 07:55 AM

'ille, youre NOT 'Overseas', are you?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Art Thieme
Date: 19 Oct 01 - 11:28 PM

Nobody around these parts of Illinois ever heard of anything like an International Money Order or whatever. Is there an easier way for folks in the U.S. to buy this?

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 12:19 AM

Murray-I have tried your link for fisher records, but it does not work.Is there any other way to order on-line?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: JenEllen
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 02:38 AM

Thanks for the update. Been waiting for this one!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Greyeyes
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 03:38 AM

Correct link, they ship to the U.S. and accept major credit cards, there is a currency converter on the "how to order" page.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Nemesis
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 08:58 PM

'Ullo Paul from 'ull,

Weel, nearly! About a mile from the briny in Sussex *G* and blearily read the thread 'from Belgium'. Still - buying over the web is easier wherever you are :) compared to the blank looks in MVC when I go in looking for 'obscure' things like (Artisan)

PS: goin' on this UK gatherin' thang? Cheers, 'ille

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Oct 01 - 11:17 PM

Sorry John, I usually test my links, forgot the http://

Murray

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 06:14 AM

Hille, direct by post from Julia (as stated in the first post) is by far the easiest, and best for them too.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Nemesis
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 12:26 PM

Thanks Noreen!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: John Routledge
Date: 23 Oct 01 - 04:31 PM

Have just sent cheque to Julia -address as in first post. Looking forward to a wonderful listen. John

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: dougboywonder
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 01:06 PM

It bears repeating, and for those who don't know -

What is Julia/Nic/Joe's address?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 01:31 PM

dougboywonder, it's in the first post above, but as you say, it bears repeating...!

Julia Jones
Mollie Music
52 Newland Park Drive
York
YO10 3HP
UK

I'll get round to linking this to all the other Nic Jones threads someday too.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 03:19 AM

Heard the preview and plug on Radio 2 last night - of course no mention of why we can't get hold of Nic's old recordings!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 17 Apr 02 - 12:36 PM

For completeness: (and to refresh in order to remind anyone who hasn't bought it yet!)

Nic Jones Unearthed Track List

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Pavane
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 02:06 AM

Back up to Number 1 in the BBC folk charts again this week - people must have heard you, Noreen.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 03:12 AM

:0)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Apr 02 - 05:13 PM

I'm gonna say it before Dick Greenhaus does: Camsco (in the USA) carries it as well as any other Nic Jones CDs which don't have anything to do with Celtic Music.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:06 AM

I cannot understand why Unearthed and In Search of Nic Jones aren't available from Amazon. It seems to me the ideal place to purchase it. That said, I got my copies from Fish Records.

Is there any point in saying that they are great CDs. Even the coverwork is great.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: breezy
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:41 AM

Then understand this, Nic's income would be less as anyone who is anyone wants the artiste to receive his share, its not a case of getting the album on the cheap at the artistes expense.
I'ld rather buy from the artiste everytime and by buying from 'fish' we did.
Its not that amazon sales will benefit the artiste and we are not talking commercial trash. Our music is a 'niche' market.
Or am I mistaken?
Support the artistes is what I say.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,JohnL
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:56 AM

I agree with Ian and it's very difficult to sell continually by word of mouth or soley to those "in-the-know". I always look in any music shop for Nic Jones CDs in hopes of the happy day arrives when his complete back catalogue will be reissued, but all that is available is Penguin Eggs.

How would Amazon sales not benefit Nic Jones?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 08:54 AM

I agree with John L. Of course we want Nic to get his proper income. I did not say I wanted to get it "on the cheap." If you put Nic's CDs in the proper marketplace, he would reach a wider audience. It would reach those who browse. It would benifit purchaser and seller. More to the point, it would increase sales. If I had to buy all my CDs directly from the artist, it would diminish my buying by quite a bit, I can tell you. At the end of the day, I had to get "Unearthed" and "In Search of Nic Jones" from Fish records, who are still retailers.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: treewind
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 05:13 PM

Why do you think Nic would get no income from sales on Amazon?

I can think of other sources of Nic Jones albums where Nic isn't getting any of the proceeds, but Unearthed is not one of those.

It's possible he would get a smaller percentage via Amazon, but there might be bigger volumes that would make it worth it.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: pavane
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:30 PM

If you are not familiar with the reason his back catalogue is not available, then you should browse the Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer threads.

Basically, the rights to these and many other artists work were bought by someone who doesn't seem able or willing to distribute them, at least not to industry standards (A few have apparently been issued on home-made CDROM)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: treewind
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 12:48 PM

Pavane - yes, yes, yes, but all that's not true of "Unearthed" which exceptionally is made up from material outside Dave Bulmer's influence.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:03 PM

On a Nic Jones website there is an address for Mollie Music "[e-mail]" I have tried a couple of times to Email there and they have all bounced. Anyone know if that is a good address, or have a better one? I was trying to check about postage costs before I sent them a cheque.
JohnB (In Canada)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 11:43 PM

Or you can order it from CAMSCOm, who takes major credit cards and won't get you involved with exchange rates and overseas shipping. And yes, Nic gets his cut.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Ralphie
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 11:48 PM

Hi John B ...
Try E mailing Julia Jones at
[e-mail] and she should be able to help..
Get back in touch with me if you have a problem
Regards Ralphie.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Ralphie
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 11:50 PM

Nice one Dick...!!
Should have guessed that you'd be lurking somewhere!
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: pavane
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:33 AM

Anahata - I didn't think Unearthed counted as back catalogue! (Nor In Search of Nic Jones).

But yes, we should make it clear that these are available.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 04:43 PM

I still have a bank account in England, so it easier for me to do it that way. It does not really cost me anything either, because what little bit is there is just sitting there.
Thanks for the info Ralphie.
JohnB.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:17 PM

Now that the fuss of the releases has died down, how would anyone new to Penquin Eggs know of the existance of any other recordings by Nic Jones? I think this backs up the argument that a few of us made earlier on in the year for the general release of 'Unearthed'and 'In Search of Nic Jones' to the retailers. If this is not done, then these recordings will gradually fade away from public conciousness as I think they are doing now.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 05:26 PM

They've never been in "public consciousness", surely. Anybody whose heard the name Nic Jones, or who's heard a track by him and wants to know more, just needs to type Nic Jones in google, and up comes an excellent site with a full disography.

Of course it doesn't help that he spells his name Nic instead of Nick, because Nick Jones doesn't throw up anything about him.

Obviously it'd be better if people could find the records by looking through a stack in a record shop, but that would only be likely to happen if there'd been other things to bring him to public attention, such as a TV special or whatever.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Jeanie
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 06:07 PM

You can also hear Nic singing and playing in the first half (Halliard) of this readily available (and "kosher" with tracks credited to Mollie Music) re-issue on one CD of two LPs:

"The Halliard : Jon Raven, with Nic Jones and the Black Country Three - The Jolly Machine with Mike Raven, Joan Mills and Saga"

Ref. No. MR 77 Michael Raven Records

It was on sale this year at Holmfirth festival. Superb stuff. One of the tracks is Nic solo singing "Going for a Soldier Jenny". Also lots of wonderful accompaniment.

- jeanie (lucky enough to have regularly heard Nic performing live)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: John Routledge
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 03:53 AM

Thanks for the reminder :0) - Will unearth Unearthed again for yet more enjoyment.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:10 AM

Doesn't alter what I say one iota. Why do you assume that people will try out the internet to find out more about him? They are more likely to go to the CD racks in HMV or Virgin or type in his name in Amazon and leave it at that. Those of us here are more likely to be the more devoted Nic Jones fans and will make an extra effort to get his work, but the casual listener wont and it is the casual listener that makes up the bulk of the CD buying public. I cannot agree that Nic needs an appearance on TV to generate interest in him. THe interest is already there. When you think about it, most artists in the CD shops don't have any coverage apart from the appearance of their disc in the racks.

I agree with Jeanie about the Halliard recording. It is excellent as a whole and a delight to have a Nic rarity. I bought that on the net.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 07:03 AM

Guest Ian.

Couldn't agree more, both "Unearthed" and "In Search Of" should be in every record shop, supermarket, petrol station in the world..!!
Alongside all the Halliard Stuff, Penguin Eggs....and everything else
(Except illicit material of course!)

I think that the stumbling block is trying to get a distribution deal, which as I know is a tricky business,

As I understand it, most of the big chain shops in the UK only deal with 1 or 2 distributors when it comes to "niche" music. If you think about it, it's hardly surprising really, imagine trying to keep tabs on 100 or more individual recrd labels all sending you 20 or so CD's...Nightmare!!

So, to get ones product into Tower Virgin HMV etc, means that you have to get a deal with the "Distributor"...Maybe that is where the problem lies.

And having been so badly burnt by the industry in the past, I can perfectly understand the families concern about getting into bed with people that they don't know.
(Obviously the US is supplied by CAMSCO...Cheers Dick!)

So, essentially, that is where I think the stumbling block is...but, don't quote me, my repnsibility ended when "Umearthed" came out...Mind you it's nice to see the interest is still there

Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 07:05 AM

As for Amazon...I don't know their purchasing policy...but, it might be the same as the big UK stores.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Leo Condie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 01:16 PM

Distributor deals are 99% totally terrible, my dad has had first-hand experience trying to get a distribution deal. basically, if Nic got a distribution deal for Unearthed it would mean he'd get about £5 for every £20 CD, rather than £20 for every £20 CD. The distributor and the record company both take the major cuts. Also, there is usually a non-refundable up-front payment, in my dads case it was going to be £250 i think, or maybe £500 - also, they charge you to store them in their warehouses and they also charge you if they decide to destroy them. Distribution deals are only really worthwhile if you have the backing of a PR firm. maybe some people don't mind most of the money not going to nic but personally i'd much rather he got £20 than £5. which reminds me, i ought to order it sometime soon...

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 01:28 PM

I have to admit, Ralphie, that I don't really know the business side of music, and so what you said was interesting. It does seem odd that the one or two distributors whom you talked about aren't interested in 'In Searc of...' and 'Unearthed.' The market, I'm sure, is there. On the other hand, I can understand Jones' family total suspicion of the business.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 02:10 PM

Leo..Mmmm..Thanks for confirming my suspicions re distributors..but, I suppose you can't really blame them, or the shops...It's just "units" of "product" to them...might as well be Gareth Gates or the Spice Girls for all they care, as long as they sell, sell, sell!!

The fact that we sad bastards out here, actually care about the artist, and know the history of the people concerned, matters not one jot to them...It's just another widget to sell..(Which reminds me, any news on the Celtic Music saga?)

And finally Leo...send a cheque to Mrs Jones at Mollie Music, and enjoy 3 or more hours of great songs and tunes, in the happy knowledge that the "Industry" hasn't had a penny of it ! (You might even get a personal note, if he's not walking the dog!)

Ian, I wasn't having a pop at you, honest, but Leos message sort of says it all.

As a very tiny company, Mollie Music has to be very careful how it deals with the business world. We might all be passionate about Nic and his music...but the sad fact is the Sony and Warner have never heard of him, and never will. and quite frankly, they probably don't give a shit, either.

Good job that there are some of us out there who do.

Best Wishes to you both, and may we continue to hope that One day we'll see Nic performing with Pans People (God that ages me!) on TOTP!

Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Leo Condie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 03:49 PM

oh i will, ralphie. just waiting for the student money to appear in my account...

i get the feeling distribution for smaller artists is a bit like vanity publishing, sadly. having said that i saw a hefty amount of Unearthed CDs in Borders recently, although i passed that up because i'd rather they didnt get any of my money. oh, the trials of the conscientious consumer...

anyway i was thinking about the question "how would anyone new to Penquin Eggs know of the existance of any other recordings by Nic Jones?"...I've always thought topic seem a fairly reasonable label, maybe mollie music could suggest that a small cardboard insert is included in pressings of penguin eggs with information about the two releases and how to order 'em. im sure nic & co have considered this already, mind you.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:15 PM

Leo - see Celtic Music threads.....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:34 PM

Oh Leo..

As young Kit says...go and explore the sordid and very sad story that is Dave Bulmer and Celtic Music.( The company that still own the rights to the early NJ albums)available for your delectation on the the venerable Mudcat.

I stopped reading the whole disreputable saga a while ago.

Maybe, by doing a bit of research, you might understand why some of us are so bitter.

I just thank (insert Deity here) that most people around here are continuing to fight.

Good Night..

Ralphie

(Oh..and Hello Kit!)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:58 PM

Hello Ralphie!

Apart from vanity CDs (or possibly related to) one could mention small,independent recording labels, like Wildgoose, who've linked up with bigger distributors...

I've missed several Sharp's for various reasons but hope to make it on 7 October for JPD (what did it cost you to get your initial first in the advert in Folk London?)

Kitty

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Leo Condie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 05:01 PM

haha, oh i'm well-read on celtic music. hopefully dave bulmer will get what he deserves eventually. i'm sure a fair few people would be prepared to donate instruments of torture if required...

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 05:18 PM

I prefer not to think about the contents of Dave Bulmer's cupboard, but then I'm fortunate enough to still have most of the original recordings,

Absolutely agree with Kitty that Sharps on 7 October is an unmissable Flat Earth experience - John/Ralph/James in whatever order - I'll be there.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 06:22 PM

Thanks Chaps!

Kit...Oh No ! JPD doesn't work at all !

PJD = Fat, Slim, Boy
JPD = Slim, Fat, Boy
PDJ = Fat, Boy, Slim....(reminds me...must do that bangin remix!!)

Oh Bugger...just call us "Podgedy"

See you there for some songs of misery and mayhem..

Love R xx

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 01:44 PM

The above comments about distributors arn't quite right. A £12.99 CD has a dealer price of about £8. From that you would get about £5. So, the dealer is taking 30% of the price the record shop pays, and the record shop is taking 30% of what the customer pays. Obviously, if you increase the price of your CD, your cut will increase in proportion, but it will always be based around the middleman 30% of 30% thing. This may sound like a small cut of the money, but if you sell 10,000 CDs (not too far fetched, honest) thats £50k. There are some extremely good independent distributors who deal with small labels and can get product stocked in HMV, Virgin, Borders etc. They can also broker deals for in-store ads, listening posts (yes, you have to pay for that) and extra racking etc. Some of this might seem unacceptable (playing into the arms of the 'industry')but if you sell copies through folky channels anyway, you have nothing to lose through pressing extra copies for the chains and trying a short distribution deal out. You would re-coup the cost of pressing quite quickly and gain a lot of exposuse and awareness of your product if nothing else.

One final thing - do not think that bypassing the 'industry' will mean you deal with more honest and fair people. There is at least one folk distributor who will take a far larger cut of the profits in return for sitting on a pile of CDs and not offering them to any shops other than his own. Another folk distributor has been known to give as little as £3 for a £15 CD and then not pay at all on the grounds that the only person authorised to sign cheques was ill, and then hope the artist forgot. They got away with this mainly because the artists they tried it on were too young to stand up for themselves / know any better.

Whatever route you take be carefull.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 01:44 PM

Thanks for that, Guest. That was very interesting. It's important, I think, that folk music doesn't become cliquie, which will happen if we have to buy direct from the artist. The fact that 'Unearthed' was for sale in Borders is a good thing. Folk should be on sale beside everything else. We should never expect people to put themselves out to buy the music we love.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: Leo Condie
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:51 PM

The fact that Borders exists at all is a bad thing, though...;)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:58 PM

Why? I think Borders is very good. If they are selling copies of Nic's "Unearthed", then they obviously assume that their customers have taste.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 06:24 PM

Due to the vagaries of UK pricing and VAT, it's often lest costly to buy UK-produced CDs from US retailers. F'rinstance, CAMSCO sells "Unearthed (2 CD)" for $24 (US), which comes to 14.70 pounds.I carry Mollie Music, Harbourtown, Fellside, Wildgoose, Veteran, Topic, Musical TRadition, Living Tradition, Springthyme, Osmosys, Old and New Traditions, No Masters and just about everybody else.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 06:36 PM

I can't see anything cliquey about a set-up where a normal way of getting records is to buy them direct from the artist, rather from some anonymous retail outlet.

I'm all for being able to buy them through retail outlets, and that applies especially of course in the case of artists who are no longer able to perhform, but that is a supplementary method. Wherever possible the direct source is better - it means all the money gets to teh artist, and also helps remove the barriers that the music industry erects.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: treewind
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:21 AM

I think it was the words "have to" [buy direct from the artist] that Ian found cliquey. Of course many folk artists sell most of their CDs direct at gigs anyway, but it's well worth making them available in other outlets, and if you get sufficiently well known then the retailers will account for a much higher proportion of sales.

There's also the fact that commercial distribution gives you much wider exposure, which could mean more gigs, so more direct sales etc....

I've now had experience of making one album entirely home made and sold direct, and another through the studio recording/record label/commercial distribution route. The commercial one makes far less money for us per copy sold, but it's available on line and in the high street shops, and it gets reviewed in magazines and played on local radio. It's got to be worth it for the publicity value.

(We buy at trade price, about £7.50 a copy, and get 10% on copies sold via other channels).

Anahata

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Unearthed
From: GUEST,Alan B
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:33 AM

Have just bought Unearthed at last (from Fish Records) - wonderful music, a real treat. If you have not heard it you are really missing out. Ingore the criticism - cover, some sound quality - the quality of the preforamces shine thru & make it all worthwhile