Origins: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?

Subject: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: DeanC
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 12:17 PM

The DT lists the first line of the chorus as "Hal an tow, jolly rumbalo." Does any one have an explanation for where this came from, what it means, or alternative interpretations of what the words are? Having never seen it written out before I always thought of it as "Hall and toe, jolly run below," but that makes no more sense than the DT version.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 12:22 PM

An old post answering all or close to all questions.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: annamill
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 12:31 PM

Funny. The thought "Heel and Toe" came right to my mind. Could there be a connection to this phrase?

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,English Jon
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 12:59 PM

As far as I know:

"Hal An" is an old root of "Calends", I.e. Springtime.

A Hal-an Tow is a a spring garland.

Jolly Rumbelow is a fat man who laughs a lot and sells televisions.

Jon

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 01:25 PM

Calends was a Roman "calendrical" word. The calends (or kalends) was the first of the month, from which dates were reckoned backwards, as "three days before the calends of July", and counted back as far as the ides of the previous month.

The ides was the other signpost of each month, which floated to different dates in different months, and dates would also be counted as so many days before the ides of the month. The ides of March (which Caesar was told to beware) is on the 15th, but the ides falls on other dates in other months.

Calends has nothing specifically to do with spring.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Big Tim
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 01:50 PM

Check out the version by the Oyster Band on their "Trawler" album (1991).

On the subject of folk customs: anyone know what "moneymore" means as in "The Bantry Girls Lament"..."when Moneymore comes round". (I believe this song is not from bantry in Cork, but in Bantry in north Wexford/south Carlow and the song is set during The Peninsula War, circa 1810).

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: CapriUni
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 03:20 PM

Howdy! When I was in high school, we started celebrating May Day as a school community thing, and Hal an' Tow was one of the songs we sang. The tune we sang, though, was about as different as you can get from the one in the DT... that one, I can't seem to make match the words at all. Ours was a bit faster, in a different key and had fewer notes...And the only "source" I have for our version was the school's old headmaster... he sang it for us, and we sang along, no score or sheet music provided -- just the lyrics on a xeroxed sheet (how's that for "folk process"?! ;-)).

And "our" version had an opening (perhaps a modern, "paganized") verse that went like this:

Since Man was first created
His life has been debated
And we have celebrated
The coming of the spring!

Never thought much about "Hal and Tow" -- just sort of assumed it meant "haul and tow", but now that I think about, "heel and toe" makes more sense.

On our lyric sheets, "jolly rumbalo" was written as "Jolly rumble-o", and I always took it to mean that those singing guys were celebrating the 'jolly rumble' they've just come back from in the forest... ;-)

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Kernow John
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 07:15 PM

Jon
Your joke wasn't wasted!
KJ

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 24 Oct 01 - 07:22 PM

no indeed, I laughed too, but what do you expect if you allow colonials into our forum? :-)

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: DeanC
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 09:08 AM

Thanks to those of you who replied. The bottom line seems to be that we are not all that sure what it really means.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 09:23 AM

Hang on Dean, I suspect a quick trip to a Kernowek dictionary may resolve this...

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 09:34 AM

...nope, it didn't. But the mummers' play in Helston is called the Hal an Tow, and to me it sounds too much like 'hwyl a...' something but that's probably just cognitive dissonance. But I have a feeling this is a phoenetic rendition of a bona fide phrase in Kernewek... Let me try putting the phrase through a Fubar transform, I'll let you know what I come up with. :-)

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 06:40 PM

It's already been through the Fubar transform, Dai! Shame there's no reverse process- I could use it often.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 25 Oct 01 - 06:46 PM

I think 'spaw probably has one up his sleeve, the paper is awaiting publication. ;-)

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Nancy King
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 01:49 AM

Jeez, I always thought it meant "heel and toe," too. And being somewhat familiar with the habits of sailors, I thought the next line was "jolly rum below". I'll have to admit I never did really try to make sense out of the song though.

Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 02:45 AM

This comes up from time to time, and it's all pretty much been said; a search of the Forum will reveal a number of answers, some less likely than others.  Wolfgang has already pointed to one detailed reference; here is a list of all the past discussions here that contain substantive information:

lyr and tune Helston Hal an Tow  Text with tune (source unspecified) and a tune of 1802.

Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow  Includes modern translation into Cornish, links to earlier discussions and text of a modern song based on it.

Lyr Req: Hal n Toe  Discussion of historical record, the meaning of Hal An Tow, and the identity and location of Rumbelow.

Want first verse to Hal an Tow  Text, source unspecified; brief discussion of horns.

Hal An Tow: notes  A number of texts (many scarcely related) and discussion mainly on the significance of horns.

The DT file is at  HAL AN TOW.  No specific source is named, so it's probably taken from a record by a Revival performer of some sort.  The tune given, as CapriUni mentioned, is not the familiar one; since no source is acknowledged, it's hard to say whether or not it's authentic.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 26 Oct 01 - 03:16 AM

Here is a link to The Watersons' version of this song, with further notes, including A. L. Lloyd's, and links back to the Mudcat links.

Garry

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Jody Kruskal
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 01:22 AM

I have no idea what Hal an Tow means. I first heard the song from the Watersons on Frost & Fire decades ago and have always loved the mystery of the title.

Now, I am musical director and composer for a NY-USA production of Shakespeare's As You Like It. In ActIV Scene II I'm considering what tune I will give to the actors for these lyrics...

SONG:
What shall he have that kill'd the deer?
His leather skin and horns to wear.
Then sing him home

[The rest shall bear this burden]

Take thou no scorn to wear the horn;
It was the crest ere thou wast born:
Thy father's father wore it
And thy father bore it:
The horn, the horn, the lusty horn
Is not a thing to laugh to scorn.

The Waterson's melody and song Hal an Tow does not scan with these words, and of course, as composer, I can do what I like. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 13-Jan-02.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Upstreeter
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 09:33 AM

One of you knowledgeable guys must be able to enlighten me as to derivation of the ancient refrain heard in the Crystals recording... met him on a monday and my heart stood still, da doo ron ron ron da doo ron ron... What exactly is a 'doo ron ron', should it be a 'bit of a to do Ron, Ron'...where Ron is the would-be boyfriend? Please help if I'm not too off-thread, I'm dying to know.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Ann-Marie
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 12:11 PM

Dear All,

Looked it up in Ronald Hutton's 'Stations of the Sun' and apparently it does mean the Calends, or begining of the month (Halan) and garland (tow), making it the first day of the month of garlands; i.e. lst May. Well, that's what it says in the book anyway!

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Betsy
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 02:40 PM

None of you can give a definitive answer - you're waffling along so I feel moved to join-in with my waffle.
Call my bluff:-
1.Hal and Tow - Haul and Pull - to hoist up a May pole or equipment for May Day festivities, or
2.Traditional Tug of war on the Village green (on May Day) for men to display their strength /virility to the gathered young ladies - May Day being the accepted day for beginning of such arousal.

Makes as much sense / credible as some of the shite in this thread .
Thankyou Jon - for Rumbelows sounds about right to me - but could it be a local word referring to a "rumble in the hay" - type of thing.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 05:33 AM

"Tow" in Scots is twine or string, so I go with the Calend garland theory.
G E

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Betsy
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 08:02 AM

Fairground people / gypsies always referred to Tow Rope - with a hard "W" - like Toww, whereas our Dads and Uncles etc.referred to them with a soft "W" as in Toe.
I'm still convinced for example that the song Dainty Davie ( see a different thread ) has a misspelt word curly "pow" - it makes sense for it to be a curly tow ( rope ). Many many people are trying to justify the existence of the word "pow", however,coming from Middlesbrough I am quite happy to accept a simple spelling mistake ,as , when our town got its royal charter (or whatever the exact thing was called ) the Town Clerk mispelt the name by not putting an "o" in between the "b" and the "r" like normal English town names - end of mystery !!!
Incidentally it would have been a prized and expensive piece of equipment in the days when these songs evolved , and definitely a " must have " for the daring night visitor.
Hal and Tow - I'll stick to my previous assertions - the English language has evolved gently and I can't believe the words Hal and Tow have changed so dramatically as some would like , or suppose.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Sieffe
Date: 05 May 04 - 05:17 PM

Nice reasoning there! My own guess is that Hal and Tow is Heel and Toe (dancing) and Jolly Rum Below is another merrymaking reference.
All translated to the land from the sea of course (sailors have to go home sometime!!) Why anyone would want to dig up arcane meanings when the easiest answer is there I do not know . . . .some people have great trouble seeing the simple in life . . . cheers, Sieffe (who has been singing this rubbish for 30 years! . . . .)

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST, Mikefule
Date: 06 May 04 - 02:44 AM

I like the Da Doo Ron Ron comparison.

Hal an Tow is simply 17th Century English for A Wop Bop A Lula, A Wop Bam Boo.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 06 May 04 - 03:19 AM

Betsy:

"I'm still convinced for example that the song Dainty Davie ( see a different thread ) has a misspelt word curly "pow" - it makes sense for it to be a curly tow ( rope ). Many many people are trying to justify the existence of the word "pow", however,coming from Middlesbrough I am quite happy to accept a simple spelling mistake"

I like your subtle sense of humour- for a moment I thought you were serious. Or are you? "Pow" for hair was used in Lancashire at least as late as the 60s, "Getting powed" meant having a haircut.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Sam L
Date: 06 May 04 - 11:36 PM

I've only heard the Waterson's--I thought they were saying All in tow, as in with everyone along. whoops.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Darowyn
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 05:16 AM

The comparison with "Wop Bop a Loo Mop a Lop Bam Boom!" and "Da Doo Ron Ron" is interesting, but not very helpful.
Both of those have a traceable origin.
Little Richard was singing the drum fill that he wanted to start the song with. Any drummer could play that.
"Da doo ron ron" is "they do run run" from an old children's song, a version of Three blind mice.
Any song writer would know not to start the chorus of a song with a meaningless fill. Actually, I have always wondered how many of the "To me rye fol..." and "Tourelay..." choruses in folk are actually the record of the collectors writing down some old buffer's attempt to sing the instrumental break. Most villages would have had a band for Church and Pub, and I just can't imagine a pub full of drunken Englishmen singing nonsense words (Except folkies of course, who are daft enough for anything!)
Why does the "Jolly (Johnny?)Rumbelow" get so little attention? The phrase does turn up in shanties, often as a name. I don't know of any Celtic deities or pre-christian spirits with a name that sounds similar. I think the first line needs to be looked at as a whole.
If it's not Cornish of Breton, does anyone know Basque? (not a sort of corset, calm down) supposed to be the basis of the secret language of witches.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 05:59 AM

Have you sad people got nowt better to do than discuss meaningless expressions in old songs. What are you looking for FFS the meaning of life or something ?

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 07:16 PM

The watersons got it wrong. hal and his two sisters were a very popular song and dance act in the 1450's. their manager was dyslectic.

Jolly Rumbalow was rhythm guitar. he went on to form the Rumballow dynasty. they used to sell washing machines.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: open mike
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 02:01 PM

hal is the computer on board the space ship in 2001 space odyssey

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Winfree
Date: 05 May 07 - 12:44 PM

This is part of a sea chanty

"Haul and Tow" are the call to pull the lines on the sails

"Jolly Rum Below" is the cargo, or supplies for the sailors.

Some of the words are a little garbled - probably from healthful draughts of the jolly run

Confusion came when a group of self-appointed pagans tried to find pagan lyrics and ended up with a number of confused statements, as jumbled as their haul and tow...

They did produce some old seas songs like the Pace egging song - which comes from the time of Queen Elizabeth I when sailors who had fought the Spanish armada were told to stay on board ship or they would not get paid - to stave off starvation the good Admiral and a few crewmen went begging for eggs and bread and the memory remains in the English today. Not paganism, but Christian charity, is the memory.

They also sang about a wren, that is taken from door to door annually in small villages and coins collected. This is a little closer to pagan...the wren represents a companion of one of the English kings who was very extravagant, raised taxes, was cruel to commoners, and a homosexual! When people learned of the companion's death there were great celebrations and his body was carted from place to place, to prove he was really dead - for smaller villages, a dead bird, which made a pun on his name, was dressed in fragments of his clothing - "his gay ribbons" - and it was carried from door to door - coins were given in celebration of the news of his passing...This became a custom but few remember its origin.

Our pagans would have found better references to their newly invented beliefs by seeking Celtic songs about St Bridget, Lou of the Long Hand, the gift of Gab, and other tunes referring to the pre-roman times. Kipling's "Oak and Ash and Thorn" [A Tree Song] probably holds more of what they were seeking...It would be interesting to see what his trees spelt in the old druid language.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Winfree
Date: 05 May 07 - 01:15 PM

A bit more from the Hal an Tow song also gives some historical background and points to the time of the Chanty's origin:

We were up long before the day-O
To welcome in the summer,
To welcome in the May-O;
For summer is a comin'in,
And winter's gone away-O!

May was when ships put out for long trips - the spring tides and summer winds made travel more pleasant - The sailors really haven't gone a'Maying, but they are enjoying the fair winds and following seas

What 'appened to the Spaniards
That made so great a boast-O?
They shall eat the feathered goose,
And we shall eat the roast-O...

This verse is a reference to the battle with the Spainish Armada, the Spaniards boasted that they would defeat England and take it over, since Elizabeth refused to marry their prince.

The sailors, who have just enjoyed the Spainish defeat declare that the Spainish will only eat arrows which have goose feathers on them
for stabalization (fletching)

But the victors get to eat the bird which provided the arrows - this suggest that this is a song dating back to the war with the Spainish and a time when arrows were still used as weapons aboard ship. It also suggests that the English sailors were not as well armed as the spainish.

Robin Hood and Little John,
They've both gone to the fair-O.
And we will to the merry green wood
To hunt the buck and hare-O...

This may be from an older song, or it may refer to a story about Robin hoods good shooting - again the sailors are saying they sent accurate arrows against the Spainish

God bless Aunt Mary Moses
In all her power and might-O,
And send us peace to England,
Send peace both day and night-O...

The first line is a bit garbled but it blesses both the Virgin Mary for her help with the war
And it wishes a blessing on Moses, in this case representing the Jewish merchants who were funding the ship's expedition - this blessing on Moses occurs in other sea songs.

Other version include something that delights pagans - references to wearing deer horns, skins, and the deer head crest.   The stags head crest may have been an old symbol for England,just as is the English Lion, and Unicorn are symbols, or it may have represented the ship owners or captains crest.

There is references to it as belonging to your father and grand father but, this version also includes a rude joke about how having horns means that your wife is committing adultry - a sailor on an extended trip would worry about this - and the joke would be don't worry, that's how you and your whole sea faring family came to be!

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: stallion
Date: 05 May 07 - 01:45 PM

perhaps the greenwood reference is to the ship as in the pirate song " ...a home in the greenwood a life on the sea..." I believe they were made of green wood (unseasoned)

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: gnu
Date: 05 May 07 - 02:12 PM

Around these here parts, it means a heck of a good show! Bernie Houlahan is half of "Hal an Tow". Bernie is a Mudcatter who doesn't post much. He's also a 'Cat who has been acclaimed by some such as Kendall as one of the best guitar players he has ever seen. The only pic I could find roght off is here.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 05 May 07 - 06:14 PM

The Mayday edition of the Padstow Echo has just arrived and it contains an interesting article by John Buckingham.
Apparently the Day Song back in the 1890s was much more like the Halantow and at one point has:

With Hal-an-tow, and jolly rumble O.
For summer is acome, and winter is ago,
And in every land O, the land that ere we go.

It appeared in print in 1895 as a broadsheet by Harding the stationer, then the same words were published by Williams and Son in 1903 and by Thurstan Peter in 1913 in his book "The Hobby Horse".
Sometime between then and 1950 the Day Song was abbreviated to the few lines now sung when the Oss dies, with no mention of Halantow.
The tune sung today doesn't appear to fit to the old words.

The tune given in Malcolm's first link above is the Furry dance tune but was the Halantow originally sung to the same tune?

Was that song widely known throughout Cornwall but gradually lost to all but Helston and Padstow?
Was it originally a Helston song adopted in Padstow?
Or was it part of the Padstow festivities and adopted by Helston?

Padstow was a shipbuilding, sailing community up until the early 20th C (unless you count fishing which is still important there today) but Helston is a little further from a port, if Winfree is correct and it was a sea shanty.
The Padstow version has 'French Dogs' eating the grey goose feather, not Spaniards, and there is a legend that a French privateer was headed for Padstow but was frightened off by seeing the Oss dancing up on a hill. They thought it was the devil and the rest of the dancers in red were his imps. Some put the date for this in the 18thC, others say "in ancient times" but the dancers in red were supposedly women in their red capes, because the men were away fighting somewhere else.
One verse of the current May song could have an answer to that:

Where are the young men that here now should dance?
For summer is acome unto day,
Well, some they are in England and some they are in France,
In the merry morning of May.

At Helston there is a black-clothed devil and red 'imps' who are chased away by St Michael.
So perhaps there is a link between the festivities at Helston and Padstow - or perhaps they're the only remaining examples of something that was once widespread throughout Cornwall/England/the world??
Robyn

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 May 07 - 07:54 PM

My heart sinks when I see an ancient thread of this kind revived, as it usually means that someone wants to post either something that has already been said in every other discussion here on the same subject, or a pet theory which for them is self-evident fact but which (since they never cite verifiable sources) comes over as an unsubstantiated mishmash of selective fact and wishful thinking. Sometimes somebody actually adds some useful information, but it usually has to be extracted with tweezers and a magnifying glass from the surrounding junk and digression. I make an exception for Robyn, who raises some useful questions. Whether or not anyone can provide useful answers remains to be seen.

When I provided links to other discussions here five years ago, I didn't guarantee that they were accurate or reliable; nor do I now. To quote from A Dictionary of English Folklore (Simpson and Roud, OUP 2000, 'Helston Furry Day'):

'...the words of the verses are sufficiently obscure to have excited the vivid imaginations of amateur folklorists for decades...'

Clearly that hasn't changed.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:28 PM

Little Robyn's comment on "ladies in red capes" is probably a reference to the time during the Napoleonic Wars when French troops landed in Caermarthenshire, in an attempt to invade Britain.
They surrendered to a group of Welsh women, wearing traditional costume of dark skirt and red capes, who they thought were English Redcoats. Like in many stories, time/place seems to have been portable!
Guest WINFREE seems to be somewhat confused regarding history, unless the post was to have been made on 1st. April!
By the time of the Spanish Armada the use of the bow and arrow had long been dispensed with. After all, the first use of gunpowder in war was during the battle of Agincourt (1415) and by Elizabethan times firearms were well-developed.
Any student of history knows that Pace-Egging is nothing to do with sailing. It is from page-egging that we obtain the decorated eggs that we today give at Easter. Rolling eggs downhill was a sport in many parts of the country. Like many customs, it died out after the first World War.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 May 07 - 01:01 AM

Malcolm........It is the ungoing problem with the forum style in general. We have threads refreshed as you suggest all the time and I would add that in virtually all cases, the new poster has read niether the thread nor any relevant links and older threads. Mostly they just wish to show how much they know (and are generally wrong).

There is no solution to this so it is usually treated with ridicule and sarcasm which is about all that's left.

Spaw

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,mom
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:39 AM

Please an explanation of the words Hal an Tow?? I have been searching the web a lot. Doesn't anyone know?

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 11:05 AM

look at the top of the thread and read and follow the various links! This has been answered in excruciating detail over the last 8-9 years.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 01:10 PM

And if you sing:

Since man was first created his works have been debated
And we have celebrated the coming of the spring.

- Mike Waterson wrote that bit.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: JeffB
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 04:17 PM

And "rumbelow" (and its variants) was the normal 17th-18th century term for rum.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:17 PM

I think we'd need some evidence for that. See the late Bruce Olson's comments in earlier discussions here of the subject for what seems to be the most likely explanation for 'Rumbelow'.

The answer to 'mom's' question is that nobody knows; though a lot of people think they know.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:21 PM

I think it is a celebration of the earth's fecundity and the fact that it's roots lie in an act of act of mischief and impropiety.

The horns are the horns of the cuckold. Referred to in Shakespeare, and as Evelyn Waugh put it in Brideshead Revisited, "My cuckold's horns made me Lord of the Forest."

I bet thats why the Abbotts Bromley dancers have stags antlers when they dance.

A hymn to licentiousness and fornication.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:51 PM

Hmmmm...

Even without bothering myself with the facts, my immediate reaction just looking at the thread title in a forum in which sea shanties are a significant part of the shared interes (and living as I curently do in the Low Countries, from which so much nautical English comes) was that Haul and Tow was probably a mondeverdant anglicisation of the Dutch "Haal an 't touw" (pull on the rope), and that it was a phrase from a sea shanty.

One of the frustrating things about folk culture and the process that linguists deride as "folk etymology" is that it's easy to surmise but hard to prove anything. Wouldn't it be nice to imagine that a whole school of "heel and toe" dancing might have sprung from a misunderstanding of a foreign phrase?

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:12 PM

That's one of many theories already gone into in these old, tired and depressingly repetitive discussions. Unless anybody has anything new to add having read what has already been said (which seems pretty unlikely) can we please let this ancient thread slip quietly back into the grave where it belongs?

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:44 PM

Oh Malcolm. why are you so impatient with us ignoramuses?

Most of us us predicate an entire body of work on all our daft mistaken beliefs. That's allright, ain't it?

al

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:17 PM

Haul and Tow is an ancient (and still practised) method of oyster dredging on the Helford river. - they are still using boats under sail for part of the process - they used to sail, (now motor) up stream, and then drift sideways down on the current whilst dredging, and the use of engines is not allowed. This method of fishery has helped sustain the oyster stocks!
Dave.

Subject: RE: What does 'Hal an Tow' mean?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 05:57 AM

Sustainable fishing, whatever next? We can't have that!