Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 21 Feb 11 - 10:50 PM There are interesting parallels in Eastern European folk song. The Czech/Moravian song 'Promeny' - changes in English follows a similar story where she becomes a house, a fish to try to escape her suitor. If/when I get time I'll post the Czech words and a translation - fortunately it is not in an old dialect! |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 21 Feb 11 - 05:16 PM "The Twa Magicians," as posted by Jim Dixon, is the work of John Wilson (1785-1854) Professor of Moral Philosophy at the University of Edinburgh. It appeared as part of a comic sketch in the very prestigious, very widely read, Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine for Dec., 1828, Number 40 in the long-running series of "Noctes Ambrosianae," by several authors. Wilson's text appears to bowdlerize that published by Peter Buchan in the very same year and reprinted by Child as his sole example. "Maidenhead" becomes "silken snood" and "virgin love." A few other lines are revised. The Scots "dreel" ("a swift violent motion") given by the drake is also gone. Wilson and his editors missed the "nail/tail" business because they lived in a pre-Freudian age when, in polite literature, a cigar was *always* a cigar. FWIW, the character "Timothy Tickler," who sings the song, was based on Wilson's uncle, Robert Sym (1750-1844). Sym was 78 in 1828, probably too old to have learned a new ballad from Buchan. But Wilson most likely thought it was the sort of song that Sym might have taken to in his youth. Wilson is responsible for James Hogg's cognomen of "The Ettrick Shepherd." The character of that description in "Noctes" is based on Hogg. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Date: 21 Feb 11 - 03:31 PM Becky, hi, thanks for your note. I'm mystified, if the two tunes really are supposed to be the same, for the mudcat "Twa Musicians" tune is the same as the standard set long known to all. My guess is, that wasn't the tune Bell Duncan was singing. Could I be wrong? Brian, I'm also excited by the news about the Carpenter collection, especially regarding the two versions of the tune. It looks like I will need to take you up on your offer, as my contact at South Riding, while willing to help, implies finding the tune will not be easy. I'll PM you if nothing shows up about a week from now. Bob |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: GUEST,Brian Peters Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:42 PM Tell him to say hello. Sorry I won't be meeting you. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: Desert Dancer Date: 18 Feb 11 - 05:43 PM That's exciting news about the Carpenter collection, Brian. btw, I'm really sorry to be missing your concert tomorrow in Anaheim. I'm now over in that part of the world every other two weeks -- but unfortunately not these two! Am sending my husband, though... ~ Becky in Tucson |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: GUEST,Brian Peters Date: 18 Feb 11 - 05:25 PM I was speaking recently to some of the people involved in the Carpenter project, and it seems there is the prospect that his material will see the light of day in the forseeable future. I'm not at home at the moment, but I do have at home a printout from the microfilm in Cecil Sharp House of the Bell Duncan set. If you can't find it anywhere else, Bob, PM me in about a week's time and I'll see what I can do. The remarkable thing about Bell Duncan's version is, not only that she altered the melody at the point the story moves from intro to actual shape-shifting, but that Carpenter appears to have collected it from her more than once, and on the second occassion both tunes were different. But I'd like to have that corroborated by the Carpenter experts before you take it as gospel. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: Desert Dancer Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:55 PM Bob, according to what Malcolm wrote, "Twa Magicians" midi in the Mudcat collection is the same as he posted on the South Riding site. (The rest of the site still exists, you could also inquire with the folks there at http://www.folk-network.com/. ~ Becky in Tucson |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: Desert Dancer Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:41 PM Nigel Parsons: That version makes an appearance (with little harvested for the DT carets - ^^^ - in spite of its not appearing in the DT, for some reason) earlier in this same thread: Subject: ADD: Two Magicians^^^ From: Joe Offer - PM, Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:19 AM as taken from Sharp "One Hundred English Folk Songs", with the only difference being "You have done me no harm" instead of "What is your silly song?". ~ Becky in Tucson |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Date: 18 Feb 11 - 03:35 PM Does anyone know of an alternate source for the Bell Duncan set (the Aberdeenshire tune to Twa Magicians printed by Roy Palmer in his Everyman's Book of British Ballads)? The link posted by the late Malcolm Douglas on 30 Nov 2001 (see above) has long been taken down by the South Riding website. I'd love to find this tune if there's any way to do it. Can anyone help? Thanks! Bob |
Subject: RE: Origins: Two Magicians From: theleveller Date: 18 Feb 11 - 06:51 AM I think the origins of this song go right back to the Bronze Age when metal workers (smiths) were believed to imbue the objects they made with magical properties (indeed, the metal itself had special powers). They were also often shamans who, in their travels between the living world and the Otherworld shapeshifted into animal form – especially water birds, dogs, elks etc. Mike Williams' excellent book, 'Prehistoric Belief' gives a good insight into this. |
Subject: ADD Version: The Two Magicians From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Feb 11 - 06:16 AM THE TWO MAGICIANS O She looked out of the window, As white as any milk; But He looked into the window, As black as any silk. Hulloa, hulloa, hulloa, hulloa, you coal black smith! O what is your silly song? You never shall change my maiden name That I have kept so long; I'd rather die a maid, yes, but then she said, And be buried all in my grave, Than I'd have such a nasty, husky, dusky, musty, fusky, coal black smith A maiden I will die. Then She became a duck, A duck all on the stream; And He became a water dog, And fetched her back again. Hulloa, &c. Then She became a hare, A hare all on the plain; And He became a greyhound dog, And fetched her back again. Hulloa, &c. Then She became a fly, A fly all in the air; And He became a spider, And fetched her to his lair. Hulloa, &c. NP This does seem a bowdlerised version of The Two Magicians Having searched for this by both title, and distinctive line. This version appears not to be in the DT This version is from: "English Folk-Songs for Schools" (Curwen Edition 6051) collected and arranged by S Baring Gould, M.A. and Cecil J. Sharp, B.A. |
Subject: ADD Version: THE TWA MAGICIANS From: Jim Dixon Date: 25 Jan 11 - 04:26 PM From Noctes Ambrosianae, Volume 2 by John Wilson et al. (Edinburgh and London: W. Blackwood and Sons, 1827), page 137: THE TWA MAGICIANS. The lady stands in her bower door, As straight as willow wand; The blacksmith stood a little forbye, Wi' hammer in his hand. Weel may ye dress ye, lady fair, Into your robes o' red, Before the morn at this same time, I'll loose your silken snood. Awa, awa, ye coal-black smith, Wud ye do me the wrang, To think to gain my virgin love, That I hae kept sae lang? Then she has hadden up her hand, And she sware by the mold, I wudna be a blacksmith's wife For a' the warld's gold. O! rather I were dead and gone, And my body laid in grave, Ere a rusty stock o' coal-black smith My virgin love should have. But he has hadden up his hand, And he sware by the mass, I'll cause ye be my light leman, For the hauf o' that and less. CHORUS: O bide, lady bide, And aye he bade her bide; The rusty smith your leman shall be, For a' your meikle pride. Then she became a turtle dow, To fly up in the air; And he became another dow. And they flew pair and pair. O bide, lady, bide, &c. She turn'd herself into an eel, To swim into yon burn; And he became a speckled trout, To give the eel a turn. O bide, lady, bide, &c. Then she became a duck, a duck, Upon a reedy lake; And the smith wi' her to soom or dive, Became a rose-kamed drake. O bide, lady, bide, &c. She turned herself into a hare, To rin ower hill and hollow; And he became a gude greyhound, And boldly he did follow. O bide, lady, bide, &c. Then she became a gay grey mare, And stood in yonder slack; And he became a gilt saddle, And sat upon her back. O bide, lady, bide, &c. Then she became a het girdle, And he became a cake; And a' the ways she turned hersel, The blacksmith was her make. [=match} O bide, lady, bide, &c. She turned herself into a ship, To sail out-ower the flood; He ca'd a nail intil her tail, And syne the ship she stood. O bide, lady, bide, &c. Then she became a silken plaid, And stretch'd upon a bed: And he became a green covering, And thus the twa were wed. LAST CHORUS: Was she wae, he held her sae, And still he bade her bide; The rusty smith her leman was, For a' her meikle pride.
-Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,judmat Date: 13 Apr 04 - 09:03 AM Recently went to my first Steeleye concert - the sound was terrible----------- but the double cd 'Present' absolutely fantastic. Hence my following up the words and tunes. Thank you Pavane. Would love to hear it. How does one go about this project? |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: pavane Date: 06 Apr 04 - 07:49 AM I have in my archives a recording (from Swansea Sound's folk program long ago) by Crows...not the Two Magicians though. |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,judmat Date: 06 Apr 04 - 07:24 AM weeeeellll Ive continued down the page and discovered all the words and more......many thanks anyone can see me - I'm very, very green!!! |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,judmat Date: 06 Apr 04 - 07:09 AM have recently discovered steeleye span. Would love to have the words as you have described them for two magicians. |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 25 Mar 03 - 09:23 AM I'd be interested to know where Lloyd got his tune; do please add any information you come up with. I may easily have missed something that is well-known elsewhere; it was only a couple of years ago, for example, that I noticed that the tune Lloyd used for his Jack Orion was the same one that Andy Stewart used for Donald Where's your Trousers (and I still don't know what it's really called)! I did work out where Andy Irvine got the tune for Willy of Winsbury all by myself, but I'm sure that plenty of other people knew already. |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Dave Bryant Date: 25 Mar 03 - 09:07 AM Martin Carthy (with a great backing by Swarb) sang the Bide Lady Bide version on his first LP. I much prefer it to the Steeleye (Away, away, away, away) version. It's quite fun to use a verb suitable to what the Smith has turned into to introduce the chorus, ie Greyhound Dog - Barking Bide, Lady Bide, Saddle - Squeaking etc. BTW Liz - Yes Ralphie (Jordan) was a member of Crows ! |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Dita Date: 25 Mar 03 - 07:57 AM I have always understood that A L LLoyd used the tune of another Child ballad for his 60's version, and not a new tune of his own. I will have to look tonight for my source of this information. The reason this has stuck with me for so long, was that I liked the tune, and wondered what ballad it had come from. However if Malcolm dosn't know I doubt I'l never find out. john. |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Mr Happy Date: 24 Mar 03 - 03:25 PM a 'coal blacksmith' verse i heard recently was; 'then she became a sheet, asheet all on the bed, and he became a duvet and he popped her maidenhead' hello, hello, etc |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Fiddlegrrl Date: 24 Mar 03 - 03:12 PM Ooop! And so it was! *groan* Thank you kindly for setting me straight. I've been reading your posts, Malcolm, and I'm quite in awe at how knowledgable you are about all of this stuff. Thanks again. xo, E. Bess |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 24 Mar 03 - 01:15 PM Earlier in this thread, for one! Sharp didn't as a rule give his sources' names in One Hundred English Folksongs, but Mr Sparks' set has been widely published by Sharp and others, with collecting details: to be absolutely precise, it was noted on the 8th of August. Maud Karpeles (ed), Cecil Sharp's Collection of English Folk Songs (OUP 1974) Maud Karpeles (ed), The Crystal Spring: English Folk Songs Collected by Cecil Sharp (OUP 1975 and 1987) The Journal of the Folk Song Society (vol. II issue 6 1905) ...and so on. All known traditional versions have been mentioned in this thread, I think; Lomax did not find any. |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: MMario Date: 24 Mar 03 - 01:09 PM August 8, 1904 according to Bronson |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Fiddlegrrl Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:54 PM Okay! And reference to that is made where? (I'm not familiar with all of Sharp's work.) xo, E. Bess |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: IanC Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:42 PM Sung by Mr Sparks (Blacksmith) Minehead, Somerset, Collected by C. Sharp 1904. |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Fiddlegrrl Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:34 PM I'm ressurecting this old thread because I had a question. I'm still kind of new to the MudCat -- I've seen this done before so hopefully it's the right thing to do (as opposed to starting a new thread). :) Here are my conclusions on the discussion so far: If I'm reading this correctly, we only have a couple of versions of "The Two Magicians", One is Buchan's version, which Child includes in his collection. The other is the only one we have a tune for, which originates with a Mr. Sharp and is included in Cecil Sharp's collection. There's the A.L. Lloyd version too, which appears to be an attempt to adapt the Buchan version and set it to music. We're not sure if it's A.L. Lyod who wrote the tune or not. (Is that right? Yes/no? If I'm missed something, please correct me! :) ) Okay, here's my question: where did the Sparks recording come from? Who collected it? Is there a reference made to it in one of those scholarly books on ballads somewhere? I have Cecil Sharp's ONE HUNDRED ENGLISH FOLKSONGS and he doesn't make mention of Sparks. I'm curious to know who collected that version. Related question, sorta: did Alan Lomax ever collect a version of this song? I have the CLASSIC BALLADS OF BRITAIN AND IRELAND cd's from Rounder, which are, if I understand right, an abridgement of previously released Lomax recordings. I'm wondering if "The Two Magicians" was ever collected by Lomax and perhaps included in some of these earlier recordings. Thanks for the help! xo, E. Bess |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:22 PM The papers at the site above mentioned are all first class - I'd advise anyone interested in the subject(not just in Child 44 but in all the folk song material many of us put away in the 70's as "sexist")to read them closely. Jon Bartlett |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: magician Date: 04 Dec 01 - 08:45 AM i thought there was only one |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Susanne (skw) Date: 03 Dec 01 - 05:44 PM Sorry, I missed that! Must have been a Joeclone at work, because Joe usually leaves a message when he edits. Nope, it was Joe. I don't usually annotate fixed links or corrections of typographical errors, unless I see a teaching opportunity. I do make note when I add line breaks, because there's almost always a need for teaching there (and I have a ready-made note for that one). |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,MCP Date: 03 Dec 01 - 06:11 AM I think there's been some mudcat editorial intervention since yesterday. For example the source text yesterday (from my computer cache was:
(sorry, it's <WWW.REENCHANTMENTOFSEX.COM>):
whereas now there's a proper HTML link inserted as: |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Susanne (skw) Date: 02 Dec 01 - 09:16 PM Mick, I don't see your problem. Robinia's link worked all right for me, even though it gave the url and not the title. We can have it both ways now! Thanks, both of you. Now I'll be back to robinia's site, which looks quite interesting ... |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,MCP Date: 02 Dec 01 - 04:57 AM robinia - I didn't express the problem very well - it was you use of the greater/less-than (< >) signs around your address that caused the problem - they will make it look like an unrecognised HTML command and it will not appear in the display. If you'd omitted them your address would have displayed normally as (non-linking) text. Typing the form I gave above is the way to create a clickable link to your address. As well as the permanent technical note there's a thread running on these at the moment (something like 'Blue clickie things') Mick (Did I get a helpful editorial correction to my last post;if so thanks - MCP) |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,MCP Date: 02 Dec 01 - 04:10 AM robinia - there's no ban on the web address - the only problem was your formatting of it as <REENCHANTMENTOFSEX.COM>. All I did was reformat it correctly to appear as a link: <a href="http://www.reenchantmentofsex.com">LinkText</a> Have a look in the site map for technical things and it will show you how to do this. Mick |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,robinia Date: 02 Dec 01 - 01:11 AM OK, I get the message that actual web addresses are not allowed on this forum -- or is it dot.coms? (a designation I picked out of total ignorance) Sorry to have been so slow on the uptake... |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,robinia Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:52 AM Well yes, Mick, that's the title of my site. But the address--what you have to click if you want to see it is |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Amos Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:05 AM Malcolm, Joe, MCP -- especially Malcom: Your eruditiion and scholarly sweat is incredibly valuable. And I want to add, greatly appreciated by a large number of silent admirers. Many, many thanks for the work, the shared information, the insight and new discoveries that add so much to the real flavor of the 'Cat. Regards, Amos |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,MCP Date: 01 Dec 01 - 05:02 AM The address for robinia's site (invisible above) is The Re-enchantment of Sex: defense of a "rapist" erotic myth Mick |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,robinia Date: 01 Dec 01 - 03:29 AM PS to Charlie Baum, I figured out what I was doing wrong with that web site address. Finally. (Some of us are still computer-challenged) |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,robinia Date: 01 Dec 01 - 03:15 AM Wow, I should have queried you guys before: you turn up some great material! But my "commonly misinterpreted as rape" comment, Mick, refers to audience reaction and not to esoteric scholarly research -- to what Tony Barrand said in an encouraging email to my website (sorry, it's www.reenchantmentofsex.com): that he and John are often "accosted with this 'rape song' argument after singing 'The Two Magicians' . . . we don't sing it much anymore because in certain audiences it can cast the wrong mood" I'm quoting a bit from memory here (and I'm correcting his "mod" which I assume was a typo for "mood"). I'm also surmising that these "certain audiences" were often on college campuses where political correctness (and the cult of feminine victimhood)loom large. SO.... it's nice to know that the ballad is still so very much alive. (And also very nice to get some good networking tips; being targeting by porn search engines can get you down....) |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE TWA MAGICIANS From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 30 Nov 01 - 08:23 PM The midi was made from Sharp's notation of Mr. Sparks' singing, rather than from the later piano arrangement, so we will have to blame him for the phrasing and tempo! As I mentioned earlier, Sharp was not to blame for maiden name; that is how Mr. Sparks sang it.
Very few examples of the song have been found in tradition in Britain, and until relatively recently the Sparks variant carried the only known traditional tune for it (I discount for the moment the large number of Hares on the Mountain songs, sometimes considered relatives, but about which there is still disagreement); as Mike mentioned above, Greig-Duncan contains only a fragment, without a tune. There is another traditional set with a tune, however, which was noted in the early 1930s by James Carpenter from Bell Duncan of Aberdeenshire, a prolific singer who also supplied the only known traditional tune for The White Fisher. This remained unpublished until 1980, when it was included in Roy Palmer's Everyman's Book of British Ballads.
Palmer prints staff notation for the third and fourth verses and choruses. A midi made from these goes to the Mudcat Midi Pages, and can be heard meanwhile via the South Riding Folk Network site: Quite close relatives of this tune turn up attached to, for example, The Forester (The Knight and the Shepherd's Daughter) and Johnny Sangster. |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie) Date: 30 Nov 01 - 07:01 PM Joe- The lyric and the melody we sang is basically the same as Sharp's in "One Hundred English," so there's no reason to give those to you again. Small differences: We always sang, "I shall-never change my maiden name..." instead of "never shall." And although none of us girls would ever have admitted as much, we secretly thought that the "maiden name" was a coverup for "maidenhead..." Sharp did have a reputation for cleaning up the songs he wanted to print in school textbooks. In the digital-trad tune given, there should be no pause after, "Yes, but then she said." It should go straight on into, "and be buried all in my grave." And the tempo is sprightly, as in this form it is meant to be humorous. Jean |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: CraigS Date: 30 Nov 01 - 05:52 PM Two things spring to mind: 1) The best version I have ever heard was by Fred Wedlock and Mike Evans, which they recorded on a (home-made) LP that they sold on their tour - about 1975 2) There was a version popular in the 70s which had an elaborate chorus, which went something like: Hello,hello,hello,hello you coal-black smith You do to me great wrong To think to have my maidenhead which I have kept so long I'd rather die a maiden and be buried in my grave Than a lusty dusty ?????? coal-black smith My maidenhead should have. |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: GUEST,MCP Date: 30 Nov 01 - 04:07 PM (Joe - Not sure which thread I should be in now!) There is another (very brief - 1 verse) source for this in the Greig-Duncan collection (from the prolific Bell Robertson), that doesn't seem to be in the Ballad Index citation: She became a ship, a ship And sailed upon the sea; And he became a mariner, Aboard o' her gaed he, Sayin', Bide lassie, bide, And aye he bade her bide, And be the brookie smith's wife, And that'll lay your pride. The notes say that the song was know to Mrs.Robertson's mother before the Buchan text was published and quotes several letters from Mrs.Robertson to Greig relating this (and the differences with the Buchan version). robinia - I'm not sure about the "commonly misinterpreted as a rape song" (don't know where your web site is, so I can't see what your interpretation is). Lloyd in Folk Song In England devotes the best part of a page to the song with allusions to (amongst other things)shamanistic duels and the "Bronze age notion of the smith as an essentially superhuman being, a triumphant wonder-worker, the magical master of the Earth-Mother in whose belly metal grows. In Willa Muir's Living With Ballads the song (interestingly indexed as The Twa Musicians) she describes it as "following a well-worn tradition of transformation contests in Europe and in Asia that may derive, it is said, from magical contests between Buddhist and Brahman saints." and going onto priest-kings and substitute sacrifices. Mick |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: robinia Date: 30 Nov 01 - 01:05 PM I'm curious about how people TAKE this ballad, my sense of it (comfirmed by Tony Barrand) being that it's commonly misinterpreted as a "rape song." See my website |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:55 AM Yes; Sharp published the full text as he had it from Mr. Sparks, except for the final line of the refrain, which (pesumably to make better sense?) he changed to A maiden I will die, though his source had actually sung My maiden name shall die. Transferred from a related thread. -Joe Offer-
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Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:40 AM Malcolm, do you think that Sharp's One Hundred English Folksongs contains all the verses Sharp collected? Note that the verses in the Nancy Thym recording coincide with verses in the Child version. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 06 Nov 01 - 11:26 AM The set in Child was taken from Buchan's Ballads of the North of Scotland (I, 24; 1828), and was the only Scottish example known to Bronson; the Sparks set was the only known English one, and the only one with a tune. Apart from that mistake in the first verse, Nancy Thym has just added a couple of verses onto the end, which appear to be anglicisations of material from the Scottish set. Any other "versions" appearing on record will be modern adaptations, not traditional; the best-known one probably being A.L. Lloyd's re-write, set to another tune (he didn't say, so far as I know, whether it was traditional or his own). À propos of that, Lloyd commented "Dr. Vaughan Williams once said: The practice of re-writing a folk song is abominable, and I wouldn't trust anyone to do it except myself." The Traditional Ballad Index accuses Sharp of bowdlerisation; since the original MS transcription of Mr. Sparks' singing has maiden name, and since Sharp only edited for publication, I think we can be confident that Mr. Sparks sang maiden name as noted. Autres temps, autres mœurs; it is a mistake to imagine that the turn-of-the-century collectors were necessarily more prudish (as we might call it now) than those from whom they collected. |
Subject: ADD Version: Two Magicians^^^ From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Nov 01 - 04:19 AM Here's the version from One Hundred English Folksongs, edited by Cecil Sharp (1916). It's almost the same as the Nancy Thym version I posted above, but it has fewer verses and the beginning makes more sense. -Joe Offer- THE TWO MAGICIANS She looked out of the window As white as any milk He looked into the window As black as any silk Refrain "Hulloa, hulloa, hulloa, hulloa You coal black smith You have done me no harm You never shall change my maiden name That I have kept so long I'd rather die a maid," Yes, but then she said, "And be buried all in my grave, Than I'd have such a nasty, Husky, dusky, musty, fusky Coal black smith! A maiden I will die!" Then she became a duck, A duck all on the stream And he became a water-dog And fetched her back again Refrain Then she became a hare, A hare upon the plain, And he became a greyhound dog And fetched her back again. Refrain Then she became a fly A fly all in the air And he became a spider And fetched her to his lair Refrain^^^ |
Subject: ADD: Twa Magicians (Child #44)^^ From: Joe Offer Date: 06 Nov 01 - 03:00 AM The text in the Digital Tradition is similar to what's in Child, but I thought I'd post the Child text. Thanks to MMario - he gave me a text copy of all the Child Ballad texts. -Joe Offer- THE TWA MAGICIANS The lady stands in her bower door, As straight as willow wand; The blacksmith stood a little forebye, Wi hammer in his hand. Weel may ye dress ye, lady fair, Into your robes o red; Before the morn at this same time, Ill gain your maidenhead. Awa, awa, ye coal-black smith, Woud ye do me the wrang To think to gain my maidenhead, That I hae kept sae lang! Then she has hadden up her hand, And she sware by the mold, I wudna be a blacksmiths wife For the full o a chest o gold. Id rather I were dead and gone, And my body laid in grave, Ere a rusty stock o coal-black smith My maidenhead shoud have. But he has hadden up his hand, And he sware by the mass, Ill cause ye be my light leman For the hauf o that and less. O bide, lady, bide, And aye he bade her bide; The rusty smith your leman shall be, For a your muckle pride. Then she became a turtle dow, To fly up in the air, And he became another dow, And they flew pair and pair. O bide, lady, bide, &c. She turnd hersell into an eel, To swim into yon burn, And he became a speckled trout, To gie the eel a turn. O bide, lady, bide, &c. Then she became a duck, a duck, To puddle in a peel, And he became a rose-kaimd drake, To gie the duck a dreel. O bide, lady, bide, &c. She turnd hersell into a hare, To rin upon yon hill, And he became a gude grey-hound, And boldly he did fill. O bide, lady, bide, &c. Then she became a gay grey mare, And stood in yonder slack, And he became a gilt saddle, And sat upon her back. Was she wae, he held her sae, And still he bade her bide; The rusty smith her leman was, For a her muckle pride. Then she became a het girdle, And he became a cake, And a the ways she turnd hersell, The blacksmith was her make. Was she wae, &c. She turnd hersell into a ship, To sail out ower the flood; He caed a nail intill her tail, And syne the ship she stood. Was she wae, &c. Then she became a silken plaid, And stretchd upon a bed, And he became a green covering, And gaind her maidenhead. Was she wae, &c. Source: Child - the English & Scottish Popular Ballads This is the only text in Child for this song. Child #44^^ |
Subject: RE: Help: Two Magicians? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 05 Nov 01 - 09:11 PM Mr. Sparks' tune, as noted by Cecil Sharp, can be heard at Mudcat Midis: See also Bold Black Smith for a little more related discussion. |
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