Help: Help-12-string guitar

Subject: Help-12-string guitar
From: ganainm
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 03:30 AM

Hello to all Mudcatters from Germany,

I´m a new Mudcat member and would like the opinion of the 12-string guitar specialists or anyone else for that matter.

I have been playing live gigs for well overy twenty years now (Irish songs and ballads). I recently parted with my 12-string Takamine. The sound wasn´t bad and the pick-up was very reliable for live gigging. However I was beginning to get severe cramps in my left hand, especially when using the capo. I was even using extra light-gauge strings. Now I am playing only the 6-sting. However, I really miss the 12-string sound on some songs and would dearly love to play the 12-string again.I have been offered a 2nd-hand Guild 12-string F112 (16 inch model). I am not familiar with this guitar, but have been told that the action is beautiful and easy to play.

Any ideas on this, or what kind of 12-string should I go for and how much would I need to spend?

Would greatly appreciate your ideas on this.

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: mooman
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 04:07 AM

Dear ganainm,

I'm not in Germany but in nearby Belgium.

I can't really comment on the Guild as it is not a model I know. I'm sure someone here will have experience with it though.

Neither do I know where in Germany you are or your budget. If cost is a limiting factor I would suggest you could do far worse than a Seagull 12-string (made in Canada). The build is generally reliable and good quality, the action good and they now come equipped with a good LR Baggs pickup system which, in my opinion, is as good as the more common Fishman system.

Here is a link to a German site that carries the Seagull line so you can get an idea of price.

I play a German guitar myself (a Lakewood M-18 6-string, made in Giessen). This is a higher quality and more expensive instrument and they make several very good 12-string models. However, being in Germany, you may be able to find a good second-hand model by ring round some of the local stores.

Hope this helps a little.

mooman

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: 53
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 10:48 AM

why not try one of the newer takamines, i've heard that thdy have made a lot of improvements, and they are listed in this month's elderly catalog. BOB

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 10:48 AM

Guilds are excellent 12 strings, which normally come in new at around 1-1,500 American dollars. If you like it, and can pull it down for 500-800, don't look back when you put it in you car.

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 11:10 AM

The F series Guilds are excellent 12's. guild has built the "benchmark" 12 for a long time and I wouldn't hesitate in taking this one at all. Look back on the old threads for lots of 12 string discussions and Guild info.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 01:24 PM

Guild indeed has been the benchmark in 12-strings for a long time, deservedly so. In more recent times, they've been getting some competition for "benchmark" status from Taylor, which makes some of the most playable 12s out there, for money comparable to a Guild. However, it ain't the brand that counts most, it's the guitar. Only you are in a position to evaluate this one and decide whether it truly plays as easy and sounds as good as you want it to.

As for hand cramps, my experience is that this is generally less a function of the gauge of strings you use, and more a function of other variables: the setup of the guitar (have you kept it "tuned up" so the action stays consistent? twelve steel strings can exert a lot of tension on the neck, causing the action to creep up over time); the width of the neck (is your fretting hand trying to do too much in too small a space? this can change as you get older); a number of ergonomic considerations (how long is your strap, what angle does the guitar hang at, how much do you cock the wrist on your fretting hand, etc.); and your playing style (do you always hold down a full chord when a partial would do? do you hold notes or chords for longer than you need to? are you working with a limited chord vocabulary, which can force your hand to hold the same position for a long time and lead to fatigue? etc.). I would suggest that you give some thought to these other variables, and if you have someone near you who is an experienced player, have him or her watch you play and make suggestions. This difficulty may have more to do with you than with the guitar. The more you know about these factors, the better basis yuou will have for selecting the instrument that's right for you. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: Raptor
Date: 21 Nov 01 - 02:48 PM

Go for the Guild!
Raptor

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: GUEST,Terry
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:40 AM

Das Guild ist zer goot meiner freund

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: alex s
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:48 AM

I played my 30 year-old Tak at a ceilidh last night for around 3 hours with no problem - I think you should consider all the points made by Whistle Stop as it could well be the WAY you play rather than what you play which is the problem.

Do tell us the outcome of all this.

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: Bru
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM

Earlier this year I bought one of the modern Chinese built Guild 12 stringers. The guy I bought it from couldn't get on with the 12 stringer - possibly had limited use for what he knew - and he was quite happy to sell it to me for considerably less than a Guild had any right being sold for. It was a "burst" finish - which normally wouln't appeal to me personally - but at the price it would have been churlish to have worried about that point.

The build and the finish are as good as I've seen on any guitar within a mile of it's retail price. The neck was comfortable and the action perfectly acceptable for a guitar practically out of the box; even my Martin needed seting up when I first bought it.

I'm not sure what it came with, but it now has D'Addario 10's on it; that's what I put o all of my 12 stringers. The sound is good enough for me; I'm not saying it's as good as my Martin - it doesn't have quite the same "ring" - but it's a respectable contender. And you won't have anybody with a Taylor drowning it out in a pub singaround, I can promise you.

Well worth looking at, if you want one.

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: GUEST,StarDust
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 01:16 PM

I am an ancient, kicked around with guitars of all types for over 45 years and recently purchased a used SeaGull 12 string. This guitar was set up originally for a left hander but I play right, the pick guard is for left but for the price I paid ($150.00 used) I will be fine. The Seagull 12 strings have a fantastic tone quality as well as excellent sustain for guitars which cost way more than a new Seagull will set you back. Go for a SeaGull if you have a choice, put some ultra light strings on it and you will be amazed at the quality this instrument contains.

Subject: RE: Help: Help-12-string guitar
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 02:17 PM

Get it set up by Brian ROdgers and use the low-tension Gordon Newton strings