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BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
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Subject: Is L. Of Rings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Art Thieme Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:05 PM The title of the thread: Is The Lord Of The Rings Offensive to many fundamentalist Christians the same way Harry Potter seems to be? I've loved the Lord Of The Rings for 40 years. For at least 25 or 30 of those years I've read the whole or selected parts of it each year. There are "dark lords" and "orcs" and "wizards" and magic galore in those books. This was way back before the so-called silent majority and long before fundamentalists and other minority groups learned that, like labor unions, there was power in the union of like-minded individuals who got together, stood their ground, and empowered themselves and their movement's tenets. Democracy was interprited to mean that, even if you only had one more than 50% of people on your side, you and your group got to take ALL the marbles home with you--and the gloves, bats and balls to boot. George Bush even got to take all those and more home with him EVEN THOUGH he he lost the American election. Now he is giving America away to his mega-rich supporters.. (Sorry, I've made my own thread creep even before starting the train.) Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: CarolC Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:15 PM (Yeah, but it's good thread creep... ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: SharonA Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:17 PM To answer your question: yes. So is just about any similar fantasy novel (my folks even had trouble with C.S. Lewis and the Narnia books). So is any science fiction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: mousethief Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:17 PM I'm confused. What was the question again? Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:25 PM My kids were at the proper age to read "Lord.." and I read it also, wearing out a set. One of the not so many books that appeals to a wide age group. The kids are in their 40s now. I read all the books on sorcery that I could find when I was a kid, and saw all of the Bela Lugosi, etc. movies. I blame them for leading me into the sciences for my livelihood. I believe those kinds of literature help to shape an inquiring mind. In spite of the ignorant and narrow-minded, I think the movie version will make a big splash. Already sales of the books are jumping. They will help form another generation of kids with a good percentage of inquiring minds. Haven't read the Potter books, but they seem to be good for the youngest readers. Thread creep here too- It's a good thing that Powell is there to toilet train and tell Bush what to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:29 PM When a thread about creeps starts of with a thread creep what sort of direction is up?
There's always a clash between a theory of democracy in which majorities have the power to do what they want, and one in which minorities have rights which can't be over-ridden. Including miniorities of one.
Of couyrse Lord of the Rings isn't about democracy in any case. The only place where you could say there's some kind of democracy is The Shire - and that's not a democracy, it's a well functioning anarchist enclave.
Since The Lord of the Rings is full of magic and doesn't make any overt referances to Abrahamic religion (ie Judeo/Christian/Isamic), and Tolkien was a believing and practicing Catholic, I imagine there is bound to be a lopt of flak from certain sorts of fun-damn mentalists, but so what? |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Clinton Hammond Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:33 PM "Is The Lord Of The Rings Offensive to many fundamentalist Christians the same way Harry Potter seems to be? " Is there anything besides the frigg'n Bible that isn't to those zelots? And really, who besides them gives a flying tinkers cuss??? They can take a good long leap, as far as I'm concerned... idiots... |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: SharonA Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:44 PM Clinton asks: "Is there anything besides the frigg'n Bible that isn't [offensive] to those zealots?" Not much, Clinton, not much. They do like the Reader's Digest! : D |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Burke Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:53 PM I've read the other thread & now this one & feel really compelled to make a point. It is basically impossible to say what fundamentalists as whole believe because they simply do not speak with one voice. We all know that the Catholic Church has it's official teachings that not all Catholic's really hold to. Well, that central organization to give you the official teachings just does not exist for fundamentalism. There are Christian Denominations that more or less hold to the general ideas of fundamentalism, but to a one, they are not centrally controlled & cannot define the teachings of their local preachers, much less the person in the pew. They prove this by splitting constantly over seemingly trivial matters. There are indeed leaders who speak & seem at various times have more or fewer followers, but their power comes from their ability to persuade. So the answer to the question here is, that some do object. Others look on LotR's as Christian fantasy & happily incorporate it into whatever else they are doing. For a number of years I attended an independent, evangelical church. We had a discussion group on LotR's & Narnia that was completely positive about the books. Even more so on the creation story in Silmarillion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Mark Clark Date: 28 Nov 01 - 07:13 PM Art, I too have read “There And Back Again” many times including readings to our daughter, Kate. I made up different voices for all the characters and we both always looked forward to the reading at bedtime. As for fundamentalist Christians, I don't think I know any. I think the term itself is an oxymoron since fundamentalists never seem to espouse any theology that Christ might recognize. They are to Christianity as Al Qaida is to Islam. The KKK views itself as a Christian organization as did the Nazis. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Art Thieme Date: 28 Nov 01 - 07:45 PM Look kids, this is just such a sad state of affairs if only because we've got to live togather in this world while we are at odds with one another. It is dumb and stupid to give each other a hard time on this. We must live and let live and respect the desires of others -- their needs for themselves. As I've said before, I'm an atheist secular Jew and I probably only say that because my mother was a Jew and Hitler would've cremated me alive only beause of that fact. (Dad wasn't.) My wife is a Jehovah's Witness and she and her friends KNOW all the f-ing answers. (Some just need to have certainty I guess.) I've seen sad and terrible problems when the kids NEED other things in their lives---things that are natural to desire if one is true to the STRONG urges of one's "wisdom body"--as Joseph Campbell called it ---the natural searching force to break out on their own hook that young folks exhibit.--- It's inherant, as I see it, in most people to go their own ways--read their own books, venerate things as they view it---not as others force them to see it. And it should be o.k. and not a threat when they look to so-called "heathen" religions, witchcraft, or maybe occult or shamanistic societies. If freedom of religion is more than an ideal, we must make room. It's in their interest and our own. As I said, it's just a wondrous story--imagination made beautiful in it vividness and it's complexity. It will be fantastic to see it on the screen IF it is done well. May the hair on your feet grow long. And if you want to dye it pink and gel it and spike it or pierce your little toe and cultivate your foot fetish---so be it. Art Thieme
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Murray MacLeod Date: 28 Nov 01 - 08:14 PM Mark is right, Fundamentalist Christianity is indeed an oxymoron although not for the reason he gives. Christianity is not some easy, feelgood, touch-feely, hey let's all be pals together, luvya babe system of beliefs. If ypou are indeed a Christian you believe the following articles of faith.
A. Tou were conceived in sin and you are a sinner.
That pretty much sums it up. Do I believe? Ask me on my deathbed. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:01 PM Gee whiz, didn't we already go round on this last week- and the week before-and the week before-and |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Robin2 Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:14 PM Art,
From the trailers I've seen, this is going to be one amazing movie! These books have been my top favorites for over 20 years, and I always told Hubby, NO ONE could do them justice. (Remember those horrible attempts about 15 years ago?..shudder) The previews I have seen, I've been able to identify exactly what part of the book, down to exact passages in dialoge... Here's hoping... I have correctly brainwashed all of my children, so we are all going together to see it...how's that for good upright Christian values? Robin |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Brían Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:37 PM I actually found both The Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings to have very conservative messages. The notion I believe Frodo had of always having a Shire that stayed the same to return to sounds to me like the 50's American Ideal tha many Christian Conservatives hold dear. C. S. Lewis, by the way, was a theologian. The Last Battle is actually a description of Armageddon for children. Read his Screwtape Letters if you want to see Radical Right-Wing Christian arguments. That being said, I do remember both stories fondly. The president of the art school where I earned my useless degree suggested I read The Lord of the Rings in an effort to get me to "lighten up". I rather enjoy Thread Creep. Brían |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Mark Clark Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:49 PM Well I thought the Rankin-Bass animation of The Hobbit was pretty good. One problem with all the Rings films is they always ran out of budget before achieving their goals. You could tell that some accountant had pulled the plug and told them to distribute whatever they had in the can. A film that does justice to Tolkien would have to be many separate films each several hours long. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:58 PM Looks to be a great pic! As to the Fundy's.......Well, Paw and Cletus are real good Christian old boys and I don't think they'd find a thing wrong with it. Matter of fact they might even add a chapter or two, having had some "Ring" experience with the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring. Ya' see................. Paw's flatulence when combined with his passion for 'shine and hot wings used to be a big problem for him whenever his roids would flare up....so to speak...and it got to the point that little rubber donut pillows and Preparation H just weren't doing the job anymore. Clete's 6th wife was into all the weird and wacky cures so Cletus was always coming to Paw with his suggestions that he'd heard from her. When Cletus told Paw about acupuncture, he disappeared for about two weeks and I'll be damned if anyone could find him. The Reg Boys too had their share of wacky cures for everything from the Great White North of Canada, but most of them involved bear grease and other vile and foamy liquids. Then it happened. The whole lot of them were watching my TV down in the den one night and had been subjected to at least nine hours of infomercials while they slugged down Iron City. I had learned from experience to unplug the phone and hide my credit cards on these nights which only took place when Karen was gone. I'm still paying for that quonset hut in the Aleutian Islands and I have the complete collection of Pan Flute Favorites so I have learned, albeit slowly. I think the one that finally got me was the "Great Michigan Getaway Weekend" which they bought and gave to Karen and I for an anniversary present. It was a month before I found out that they had billed it to my Visa and when we went for "rest and relaxation" in beautiful Michigan, it turned out to be clapped out motel run by a Pakistani in downtown Flint, just across from a closed GM factory. I guess it was about 5:30 AM when Cletus woke me up and said they had the cure for Paw's hemorrhoids. This was more than I wanted or needed to know at 5:30 so after verifying that it wouldn't cost me anything, I said have at it and went back to sleep. When I woke up about 7 I had one of those vague feelings of dread. You know what I mean? Nothing was wrong that I could think of and yet I just felt the world was going to come after me that day. It turned out to be Old Man Rafferty instead....but I'll come to that. The "boys" arrived back at my place about noon having already left when I woke at 7. They were lugging some huge electric motors into my garage and looking about for tools when I walked in and asked what the hell was going on. Cletus then launched into their "cure" and the reasoning behind it. It seems they had watched an infomercial about the "healing power of magnetism" and saw immediately that this was the way to fix Paw's 'roids. Slowly it all began to come together for me and I began to wonder how in the hell these guys could even remember how to breathe! In any case, they'd picked up the motors from out back of Bernie's Electrical Supply and were now going to remove the large magnets inside. They idea was to cut a slit in Paw's rubber donut, insert the magnets, and then duct tape the thing back together. I noticed that Buford had an old jockstrap (with cup) that they evidently were going to use to strap the magnets to Paw's ass, again using liberal amounts of duct tape. Listening to Cletus explain all of this and their newfound theory made me begin to question my own existence, as though I really didn't exist in the world I had come to know, but was simply a bit player in a leftover Rod Serling story. Things started going downhill pretty quickly as the magnets were removed and now were flying across my garage, affixing themselves to various steel things....like my van, my lawnmower, my golf clubs, and a little steel reinforced concrete rabbit that someone had once given us as a joke. I figured that I was going to be better off if they'd finish up somewhere else so I suggested they take all the stuff and head for the pleasant little roadside picnic area on the edge of the village where they could finish rigging Paw up and with any luck, I'd never know anything more about it. After removing the magnets, scratching the hell out of my van, breaking off the head of a 5 iron and the left ear of the rabbit, they left. The picnic area was only about a half mile off, just a bit down Rt.664 and I told them to let me know how it all worked out. Curiosity is a terrible thing sometimes and about an hour later I grabbed my Weimaraner and his leash and set out as though I were just walking the dog. As I turned on 664 I saw the Boys all walking towards me from the little picnic grove. Paw's ass seemed to be a bit large and he was walking funny, but from a distance I could tell they must have done a good job circling his ass in magnets because outside of a slight limp and a big bulge at the rear of his bibs, Paw looked pretty normal. Then it happened. Trailing the others, Paw walked past Old Man Rafferty's mailbox, a new heavy duty steel one to foil the kids with cars and bats. He first slowed, stopped, then flew backwards and before you could say "dumbfuck" he was hanging from his ass on the mailbox. Ol' Man Rafferty was washing his aging Electra deuce and a quarter and looked up to see what was happening. By that time, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg Boys all were tugging on either Paw or Rafferty's mailbox and though they got him off the mailbox was smashed in and the pole was a goner. Well I tell you, Rafferty came flying down the drive, gravel spitting up from his shoes, and swearing a blue streak. Paw was laying about 10 foot up the drive where he'd landed after the force of being ripped from the mailbox sent him sailing through the air. Rafferty bent over him and started yelling in his face and Paw was trying to stand up but being weighed down by the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring. I got up there and tried to get Rafferty to calm down some as the others stood around looking bewildered. Rafferty started blaming me for allowing such "dumbass shitkickers" to stay here and how I should let them rot somewhere else. Before he could say another word, things continued to deteriorate. Paw had gotten to his feet about 15 feet from the Buick and there was a loud clanging thump as one of the hubcaps flew off and affixed itself to Paw's rump. Rafferty grabbed the hubcap and started pulling for all he was worth swinging Paw round and round in a circle. The hubcap folded and broke loose and Paw landed by the side of the road while Rafferty began to rage about his rump-sprung hubcap and twisted mailbox. I got out my checkbook and with a stern look to Cletus asked how much this would cost to keep from calling the police. The sight of my checkbook calmed Rafferty down and my Weimaraner had gone over to the side of the road and was licking Paw's face. Rafferty calculated a sum which I figured was enough to buy a new set of tires and an exhaust system for the Buick and build a brick mailbox, while forcing me nearer to bankruptcy. Cletus and the rest were circled around me as I handed Rafferty the check and when I turned to go, I saw Paw had gotten to his feet again and was bent over stroking Jaeger's head. The dog has always had a soft spot for Paw and when I whistled for him he reluctantly came back up the drive. Bending over to pick up his leash, I heard Cletus say, "Aw Sheeitt!" Right then I couldn't imagine how things could get worse, but I looked up just in time to see Paw lifted from his feet and his ass attach to the exhaust stack of a passing Peterbilt. I watched as the truck roared off, Paw flailing around and in a blind spot where the driver couldn't see him, and the dumbass Reg boys waving "bye-bye" as the Pete rounded a curve down by the Hopewell place. We found Paw at the truckstop at Rt.37 and I-70 where the driver had stopped for fuel. When we arrived, the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring was nowhere to be seen and Paw was sitting on a bag of ice trying to cool the burns from riding 27 miles on an exhaust stack. But I tell you what.....Perhaps it was the scar tissue from the burns that did it, but Paw hasn't had trouble with 'roids since then. Maybe there is something to the power of magnetism and the Great Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring Spaw
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Celtic Soul Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:14 PM I regularly listen to WAVA in the Washington D.C. area (for those not here, it is a Christian radio station). I do so not only because I enjoy some of what they broadcast, but also to keep a finger on the pulse of the extremists. I heard that many in the Fundamentalist corner have no issue with J.R.R. Tolkiens work, as he was himself a (in their words) "devout" Christian. On "The Don Croh Show", they had a guest who wrote a book called "Harry Potter and the Bible". Evidentally, this man makes the comparisons and somehow justifies why Tolkien is better than Harry Potter. Why Tolkiens wizards are better than those in the Harry Potter books I do not personally know (as I will not spend the money to buy this book, and do not myself see a great distinction), but there it is. Same thing for C.S. Lewis. He was a Christian, and so his use of magical creatures, witches, and sorcery is somehow OK as he was himself a Christian. I can tell you that I personally know at least one Pagan who went that path partially *because* of "The Chronicles of Narnia", but that will never make the airwaves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:21 AM I'm offended by thread titles that are so confusing that they pique my interest, even when I'm trying to get some work done. I refuse to read Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter though, just so I can have an informed opinion. I DO wish I had some of your meds tho' Spaw. These carrot sticks aren't makin' it! Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:32 AM The Shire sounds like 50s America? In that case 50s America must have been distorted out of recognition in the films and books and all that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia Date: 29 Nov 01 - 07:34 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: sophocleese Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:12 AM I think communist and feminist critiquies of L.O.R might find more problems than fundamentalist Xtian critiques. I enjoy the books. I have the tapes of BBC production which I love to listen to and which my children have heard and enjoyed.
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Grab Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:50 AM I'll second Clinton. Who cares? They are the minority by some way, so they have _no_ rights over the rest of us. Sod'em (and Gomorrah too, if they want...) Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Mrrzy Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:05 AM I thought the Nazis were atheists, not Christians! |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: kendall Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:10 AM What is heaven? being one with the creator. What is Hell? being apart from the creator. All else is commentary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:53 AM catspaw49, enough of this Magnetic Arse-Healing Ring stuff. It imperils people who live alone like me. I laughed so long and loud I nearly lost my breath. My Sri Lanken neighbour came over thinking I was being done away with. The thought of ol' curry breath doing mouth-to-mouth on me was enough to revive me but I nearly carked it. And De Silva has gone home thinking there's something sus' about a bloke who sits in front of a monitor gasping for breath. JG/FME |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:32 AM Ohmygawd....THANK YOU JOHN!!!! Not for the compliment, although I do honestly appreciate it, but for that image of "curry breath mouth to mouth"...........oh man, that one is definitely usable!!! Thanks for all John........... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: SharonA Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:04 AM Murray says: "Christian is Christian is Christian" Well, Murray, the fundamentalists (or fundamentalist-pretenders, as John Hardly called them in another thread) think so, and think that anyone who disagrees with the list you made is going to burn in hell (see Murray's post of Nov. 28, 8:14pm, above). But Christians of many denominations would disagree with one or more of your articles of faith, particularly (D) the Second Coming issue; even among the fundiees, the debate rages as to whether Christ is to come at the beginning, middle or end of the End Times, and whether judgment occurs then or upon one's individual demise. Even (C) the acceptance of Christ as Savior means different things to different denominations. And don't even get me started on (A) the "original sin" vs. pure-of-soul-newborns issue. By the way, some people who consider themselves to be Christians do have an "easy, feelgood, touch-feely, hey let's all be pals together, luvya babe system of beliefs." And some Christians would disparage a deathbed-conversion plan as a "fire escape"! Sharon (an ex-fundie born-again-heathen) |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:11 AM So Sharon, where does that leave a guy like Ol' Man Rafferty? He goes to church and has one of them fish on his Buick, but I don't think he was imbued with Christian kindness in his treatment of Paw. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: SharonA Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:19 AM Beats me, spaw. I'm no longer in the business of predicting whether someone goes to heaven or hell; I gave that up quite a while ago! |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:27 AM Well Sharon, either place you go, if you go on Delta it doesn't matter, 'cause you'll change in Atlanta. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: SharonA Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:34 AM ar ar ar! |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Mark Clark Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:42 AM I don't object to people thinking I'm going to Hell, I just don't want them to create another one here on earth for the living. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: mousethief Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:56 AM The Nazis were neither Christians nor Atheists (remember "Ein Reich, Ein Gott, Ein Fuehrer"? No? Well that WAS one of their slogans), according to their own propaganda. Hitler despised Christianity as a weak religion, and the official "ology" of the Nazis was the Norse -- although they sided with the giants and not the gods! CS Lewis was NOT a theologian, and was the first to admit it. He was a "popularizer" of Christianity the way Carl Sagan or Stephen Jay Gould is a "popularizer" of astronomy and biology, respectively. By profession he was an english professor. Murray, if that is your definition of Christian, then count me out, because I don't buy the "conceived in sin" thing. That's a distortion of the teaching of the early church made by Augustine and perpetuated by Anselm and then the Reformers. If you're looking for a set of "fundamentals" to determine the content of Christian belief, why not use the one the Church herself wrote, 1700 years ago? I refer of course to the Nicene Creed. As for LOTR, or Narnia, or Harry Potter, I don't see how you can read any of them and come away with a desire to be evil or to reject God. They all clearly delineate between good and evil, and come down quite clearly on the side of Good. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: wildlone Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:12 PM If you want to read a realy good book with stories of incest,rape,murder and genocide Click here dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:18 PM And if you want to read about the insanity of man Click Here. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Naemanson Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:43 PM Whew! I've lost track of this thread. What was the question? Oh yeah! Is The Lord Of The Rings Offensive to many fundamentalist Christians the same way Harry Potter seems to be? I can't really say because I only know a few "born-agains" and they are careful not to espouse their mythology around me. Christianity has a lot to answer for, both good and bad, and for me the bad outweighs the good. However, I truly believe in the basic laws provided in the Bible and hold to them as a formula for a good life. Until the "Christians" in this world decide to follow those 10 commandments then I will stay away from any gatherings of that faith. The LOTR and Harry Potter are entertainment pure and simple. Anyone finding more than that needs to get a life. I read the trilogy to my older daughter when she was young and it is a part of her life that she will always treasure. I have read TLOTR more times than I can count and will be starting my second read of Harry Potter soon. TLOTR uses language to paint some wonderful pictures and clearly tells a story of good versus evil. Harry Potter is fascinating because of the J. K. Rowling has used language to match the style of the books to the age of the characters. I have read C. S. Lewis and find him imaginative and fun as well. I was always under the impression he was a theologian. What is the official definition of "theologian" anyway? Carl Sagan may have been a popularizer of science but he was also an astronomer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: The Walrus at work Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:40 PM "...Is The Lord Of The Rings Offensive to many fundamentalist Christians the same way Harry Potter seems to be?... "
I do hope so
mousethief,
I thought the slogan was "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer", (surely "Ein Gott" would be contrary to any "Norse" beliefs as the -pre Christian- Norse were polytheistic). As an aside, Himmler, it seems, was in favour of Islam as a religion (he was very much impressed by the SS "Handshar"(sp?) Division {Bosnian/Croat}).
Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Wolfgang Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:55 PM Walrus, you're right with the slogan. 'Handschar' would be the German spelling of that division, but there might be other spellings in English. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: GUEST,revisionist Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:57 PM Sorry, but the last time that I checked, bush WON the election. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: mousethief Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:48 PM Revisionist, you should check more frequently. Bush won the presidency, and the electoral college vote, yes. But he got fewer votes in Florida than Gore. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: SharonA Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:50 PM Only because Gore didn't ask for and receive a recount of the entire state of Florida. See the article I posted on the subject in the "Dumbya's Star Chamber" thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Steve in Idaho Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:57 PM Another one of these - and I promised Joe I wouldn't - Loved the Hobbits and the stories - could care less about zealots and their opinions - And Spaw may not be the best farter on the Cat - I DO have a certificate from the VA that I won the runoff contest held in 1994. Or was that runout contest? Farted twinkle twinkle little star while dancing on one foot. Steve This sure looks like a Jay Leno lead in - or out |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: SharonA Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:12 PM revisionist: Here's a link to that article: click here |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: SharonA Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:16 PM Sorry; I don't know why that didn't link directly to the post with the article, but look for my post of 19-Nov-01 - 03:24 PM on that thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Jim Krause Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:27 PM Ah, well, that takes care of everything. Logging out & going home. Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: GUEST Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:36 PM I thought LOTR was FANTASY. I didn't know that was the same thing as religion, theology, faith, or whatever you want to call it. And I don't give a monkey's whether someone is offended by it. They aren't being forced at gun point to watch it. So what's the big deal? I'm damned sick and tired of people who try to tell me what is and is not good for me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: mousethief Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:43 PM A monkey's what? Inquiring minds want to know. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Don Firth Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:23 PM Well, no matter what they say, Harry Potter has sure got a lot of kids reading instead of veging out in front of the TV. Personally, I think that's a good thing. After seeing some of the promos, I definitely plan to see the movie. Gonna read the books, too. And I'm rereading Tolkien in preparation for The Fellowship of the Ring. Mark, I think we might just luck out with Lord of the Rings. Just a few minutes ago on my magic electric radio, I heard an interview with a movie reviewer who said he hasn't seen the movie yet, but will be seeing a preview in a day or two. He reminded the fellow who was interviewing him that this movie is not the entire LotR, it's The Fellowship of the Ring, the first of the trilogy. And that it's three hours long. The other two, he said, will be equally long. He also mentioned that he understood that the Tolkien estate had a measure of creative control and was watching all phases of the production to make certain that it stayed true to the concept. Sounds promising. But one thing no movie could ever duplicate is Tolkien's glowingly beautiful writing. Lord, that man could write! And Murray, "Christianity is Christianity is (etc., etc., etc.)" just ain't the way it really is. You have undoubtedly noted that there are a lot of very noisy people out there who call themselves "Christians." Most of them haven't a clue as to what it's really all about. And many of them have TV shows. My theological beliefs are composed of a mix of open-mindedness, lots of questions, a sense of history, a large dollop of skepticism, and a firm grip on Joseph Campbell's admonition, "Don't confuse metaphor with fact." I go to a Lutheran church with some regularity. I know a lot of Christians, but not just the ones in the church I go to. Not very many buy into your list (I don't know much of anybody who believes in "Original Sin" anymore — and the rest is metaphor). In the church I go to, one "witnesses" not by running off at the mouth and bending someone's ear, but by deeds. It's a pretty socially active church. Most people there seem to believe that the core of the religion is to be found in Matthew 25:35-40. Look it up (click). But — enough! This dead horse has already been flogged into a pile of bloody hash in other threads. Back to Art's original question: a few years ago, in the small town northeast of Seattle, a group of flamin' Fundies demanded that several books be removed from local libraries (a common spasm among these folks). One of the books was Huxley's Brave New World. A local reporter asked a couple of spokesman for the group if they had actually read Brave New World. One of them said, "No! I don't read trash like that!" The other said, "I read the book, but I couldn't figure out what Huxley was talking about." Typical. Other than taking individual Bible verses out of context and examining them with a microscope, these folks don't read very deeply. Nevertheless, Harry Potter is in deep doo-doo with them. Wizardry, witchcraft, and all that. But since Tolkien is well known to have been one of a group Christian writers (which included Charles Williams, C. S. Lewis, and others — they called themselves "The Inklings."), on that basis they'll probably leave him alone. Maybe. One of our former pastors (now retired) used to include long quotations from Lord of the Rings in his sermons. Our current pastor was first in line when the Harry Potter movie opened here (she loved it), and she's eagerly looking forward to seeing The Fellowship of the Ring. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: IsL. OfRings offensive to fundamenta.too From: Clinton Hammond Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:29 PM As far as the LOTR movie goes, I've been following the development for 2 years now or so... Some stuff looks really good, other stuff looks horrible! I'm at the point new where I'm hopefully pessimistic... that is, I suspect that these movies are gonna suck huge, but I really hope I'm wrong... I also hope that these movies are the S.Morgensternian "Good Parts" version of LOTR I've been waiting for for years and years... LOTR is best described as Litterary BLOAT... |