Textual History of Old Time Religion

Subject: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: GUEST,Liland
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:21 PM

A friend on the BaptistLife forum posted the following, and I am going to suggest she seek input here, as Baptists are notoriously unreliable on serious musical questions like this one:

subject: Question for the Music Directors/Musicologists
name: JaneFordA
date: Tue Nov 27 17:33:36 2001
followups: And the distinction is what precisely? (TIC nmsg)

Going to direct my question into the authenticity of a word for a verse in "Old Time Religion." I'm sure this grand old song probably has a LOT of interpretations but (here's the sticking point)... a friend of mine in Scotland (this might explain a lot... ;-)) and I are going round and around with this: he claims the verse, in its pure form, reads:

"It was good for the heathen children..." (yes, I know, I've teased him about being a modern-day Baal-a-phile but he isn't taking the bait)

My copies point to "... good for the Hebrew children."

Where/when did this divergence show up?!?! I almost told this fella to get his hearing checked but sure enough, on his cd, the chorus DOES sing "heathen children."

HELP! :-)

Liland

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: MMario
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:48 AM

Liland - "Old Time Religion" has got to be one of the most "folk processed" songs of all time. I've heard rumours that some people have over 300 verses to this.

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:05 AM

I'd bet 27¢ and my granny's recipe for deep-fried turnips that "heathen children" is the result of a mis-hearing by whomever did the CD. Funny...let something get into print, onto a recording or be done by anyone famous, and suddenly it is 'authentic'. *sigh*

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: Burke
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:44 PM

Can you get the information on what CD has heathen? The number of verses is pretty endless, but lots & lots are parody, more than just added verses. If the rest of the verses are holding to the original Christian context, I'd agree it's a mis-hearing.

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:45 PM

The Ballad Index, cufresno, says the line is "It was good for the Hebrew children." The earliest date known is given as 1880, author unknown.

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: GUEST,JaneFordA
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 10:22 AM

Many thanks to ALL of you for such fast replies! :-) If I hadn't been coming down with the flu I'd've have been here much sooner! I'll see if my Scot friend will come over here and take a peek at this thread for himself. By the way, the singer who sang the "heathen" OTR is Jim Reeves. Hope this helps! Thanks again--and especially for the Jim and Tammy Faye verse! All the best, Jane!

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:35 PM

Late addition-
The current Traditional Ballad Index gives the date 1872, and mentions the Fisk Jubilee Singers. In J. B. T. Marsh, 1880 ed., "The Story of the Jubilee Singers," No. 36, p. 158, "This Old Time Religion," four verses and chorus, lacks any verse about hebrew or heathen children.
I do not have an earlier edition, but I doubt that changes were made in the lyrics.
The Trad. Ballad Index mentions the Hebrew children verse, but does not clearly indicate where it appeared. Perhaps in Tillman, 1891?

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:37 PM

Reeves sang a lot of Mondegreens, didn't he.

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:17 PM

Here's a link to a great rendition of "Give Me That Old Time Religion":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrJVF_cROSc
Mahalia Jackson - Give Me That Old Time Religion

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

Tillman (1891) had neither hebrew or heathen children.
Noble (1911) reprints the text of the Jubilee Singers.
Neither one in Dett, 1927.

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:06 PM

"heathen children" does not appear in any of the texts I can find. It could well be a mondegreen by someone like Reeves, but his lyrics on the internet and on Youtube says 'hebrew.'

Subject: RE: Help: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:30 PM

Hmmm.. I LOVE Mahalia Jackson, (hear her live 40 years ago) but on that one song I have to say I prefer it done 'straighter', without all the rhythmic nuances. She is great to listen to, but "Old Time Religion" is for singing along with, and that ain't easy the way she does it.

Subject: RE: Textual History of Old Time Religion
From: GUEST,Kate
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:16 PM

Bill D: If you have not found the full text of the poem about little ROBERT REECE, WHO WAS ASKED TO SPEAK A PIECE, I will write it out for you. It is too good to be lost to history.