Lyr/Tune Req: Twiddles (Janie Meneely)

Subject: Better things to twiddle--feminist(?) sailor song
From: becca
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 08:27 AM

I am looking for lyrics and music to a song about what women do while their sailors are away. They don't twiddle their thumbs--they have better things to twiddle...

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Bruce O.
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 10:18 AM

You can see what they twiddled in the songs below. A married seaman was a cuckold, and there are a few ballads on the subject. A version of "Tit for Tat" is in DT, and other copies noted below. See under links at the top right of the forum home page the 17th century ballad index (near bottom of listings). There look for: ZN2325 and sequel ZN330; ZN118 (Tit for Tat); ZN519, ZN1589; ZN1803; ZN1813, ZN2422, ZN609, ZN674, ZN1299, ZN1824, ZN1894, ZN2863, and ZN3047. Tunes for several are in C. M. Simpson's 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music'. I think I sent tune "Tit for Tat" to this forum a long time ago (last summer?)

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Tim O'Kane
Date: 26 Feb 98 - 03:00 PM

Becca,

If none of Bruce's links pan out, let me know. I know just the song you're talking about, but don't have it written down. We call it "The Twiddle Song."

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From:
Date: 27 Feb 98 - 01:19 PM

Check out "'Round Cape Horn"

Subject: Lyr Add: STILL HER ANSWER TO ME WAS NO
From: Moira Cameron
Date: 04 Mar 98 - 01:49 PM

How about this one:

STILL HER ANSWER TO ME WAS NO

Traditional;
Source: Ian Robb

Fair maid walking in her garden
But her name I do not know.
I'll go and court her for my pleasure—
Will she answer 'yes' or 'no'?
Oh, sir, oh, no, sir, no.
Still her answer to me was no.

Madam, in your face is beauty,
On your breast there flowers grow
In your bedroom, there is pleasure—
Will I view it, yes or no?
Oh, sir, oh, no, sir, no.
Still her answer to me was no.

My husband is a Spanish captain;
Went to sea a month ago.
First he kissed me, then he left me—
Bid me always answer no.
Oh, sir, oh, no, sir, no.
Still her answer to me was no.

Madam, shall I tie your garter,
Tie it just above your knee?
If my hand, it slips a little higher,
Would you think it amiss of me?
Oh, sir, oh, no, sir, no.
Still her answer to me was no.

Madam and I, we slept together;
Slept until the cocks did crow.
"Open your arms, my dearest jewel—
Open your arms and let me go!"
Oh, sir, oh, no, sir, no.
Still her answer to me was no.

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Bruce O.
Date: 04 Mar 98 - 01:57 PM

That last is in Cecil Sharp's '100 English Folksongs', which I finally bought yesterday (and its in several other places, usually called "The Spanish Merchant's Daughter"). It's based on a song "Consent at Last" in 'Pills to Purge Melancholy'. There's a much more straightforward (bawdy) version in one of the Ashmole MSS in the Bodleian Library, Oxford, c 1635-40, but the sheet is so badly waterstained I couldn't read much of it.

Subject: Lyr Add: CONSENT AT LAST (from D'Urfey)
From: Bruce O.
Date: 04 Mar 98 - 02:17 PM

I don't think this is really a twiddle song, but I already had a short file on it, so here we go.

'The Spanish Merchant's Daughter' with its double negative question and answer to make a positive, is moderately well known as a folksong, but less well known are its roots. A broadside ballad of c 1672-84, 'The Dumb Lady, Or, No no not I I'le answer,' (ZN2693) uses the same theme, but there is an older version yet. Unfortunately, a manuscript version of about 1635-40, in Bodleian MS Ashmole 38 (a collection of single sheets from various sources bound together), is so badly water-stained that most of it is unreadable. The first of seven verses goes:

Lady why doth love torment you
May not I your grief remove?
Have I nothing will content you
With the sweet delights of Love.
Oh, no, no, alas, no.

A slightly altered text appears in 'Pills to Purge Melancholy', III, p. 82, 1719, with a tune, and it goes as follows:

CONSENT AT LAST.

Ladys, why doth Love torment you?
Cannot I your Grief remove?
Is there none that can content you
With the sweet delights of Love
O No, no, no, no, no: O, No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Beauty in a perfect Measure,
Hath the Love and wish of all:
Dear, then shall I wait the Pleasure,
That commands my Heart and all:
O No, &c.

If I grieve, and you can ease me,
With you be so fiercely bent,
Having wherewithal to please me,
Must I still be Discontent?
O No, &c.

If I am your faithful Servant,
And my Love does still remain;
Will you think it ill deserved,
To be favour'd for my pain?
O No, &c.

If I should then crave a Favour,
Which your Lips invite me to,
Will you think it ill Behaviour,
Thus to steal a Kiss or two?
O No, &c.

All Amazing Beauty's Wonder,
May I presume your Breast to touch?
Or to feel a little under,
Will you think I do too much?
O No, &c.M

Once more fairest, let me try ye [MS: Once more only let me love you]
Now my wish is fully sped, [MS: For my lippes...]
If all Night, I would lye by ye,
Shall I be refus'd your Bed?
O No, &c.

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 09:00 AM

...and this one!

Subject: Lyr Add: TWIDDLES (Janie Meneely)
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 May 02 - 04:24 PM

Just heard this song, the one becca was looking, for, I think, on Hober Radio. Called "Twiddles," performed by Clishmaclaver who are Jennifer Cully and Brooke Parkhurst on a CD entitled "Roots Entwined." GREAT song...there are other things to twiddle when your man has sailed away!

Here are the lyrics, slightly different than what I just heard:

Twiddles
Janie Meneely

When the boats all get to sailing
and the men are off and gone
What about the women
who are up and left alone?
Do you think they sit and twiddle thumbs
until their men come home?
Oh there's other things to twiddle
when a girl's left on her own.

Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
Well it's lots of times a man will leave you
broken with dismay
Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
There's others willin' to twiddle
when your man is gone away

I remember Nelly,
she was young and she was gay.
She won the heart of Captain Dan
but then he sailed away.
He left her high and dry
with just a kiss upon the chin
But as his ship went sailing out
another ship sailed in.

And then there was Lucinda Brown
as fair as any maid.
Her true love he went a voyaging,
a sailor man by trade.
"Keep the fire burning, love,"
those were the words he spoke.
So she found herself another man
to keep the fire stoked.

When Lucinda.s man came back
and knocked upon her door
She was as glad to see him
as she'd ever been before.
He left her sleeping in her bed
but Lucy didn't care
'Course the poor guy in the closet
sure could use a little air.

Oh you hear a lot of stories
'bout the sailors and their sport.
About how every sailor
has a girl in every port.
But if you'd added two and two
you'd figure out right quick
That it's just because the lassies
have a lad on every ship.

Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
Well it's lots of times a man will leave you
broken with dismay
Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
There's others willin' to twiddle
when your man is gone away

Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
Well it's lots of times a man will leave you
broken with dismay
Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
There's other Willie's willin' to twiddle
when your Willie's gone away.

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 May 02 - 04:45 PM

Oh, thank you, Kat! What a catch!

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 May 02 - 04:52 PM

Welcome, Charley! Isn't it great?! Tks!

Lyrics were found at this site Williamm Pint and Felicia Dale's "White Horses" lyrics

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Gareth
Date: 08 May 02 - 06:30 PM

And at the risk of being cynical there is always that scouse favorite JOHNNY TODD The tune ? Ah well any Uk Catter over 40 must remember the ' Z Cars ' Theme music.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: CapriUni
Date: 08 May 02 - 07:38 PM

And then, if the woman is really independant, she won't need a man to twiddle! ;-)

:::Ducking and Running:::

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 08 May 02 - 09:54 PM

Kat, you beat me to the punch! Good job...

We sing this one...it's a lot of fun!! Janie has been very gracious in allowing us to not only record this one, but take liberty with her lyrics. After hearing 10,000 songs about how some sailor lad leaves his girl on the shore only to find yet another lass in the next port, this is a nice turn-about. Kudos to Janie!

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Nancy King
Date: 08 May 02 - 11:31 PM

Just for the record, Janie Meneely recorded this song with her group "Crab Alley" some years ago. I don't even know if the group still exists (another of the members was Jeff Holland, from Annapolis, I believe). Worse, I can't seem to locate my copy of their tape! Janie's a great person and I'd love to see her again -- got to know her when the Boarding Party and Crab Alley did a series of gigs together in Annapolis and on the Eastern Shore 10 or 12 years ago. Janie's written several songs, but this one's my favorite!

Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 May 02 - 11:55 PM

Thanks for that info, Nancy. Is this the cassette that has that song on it?

Thanks, too, to Celtic Soul.

CapriUni...my first thought, exactly...then I thought of Betty Dobson and her book/video(?) "Sex for One!" **bg**

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 May 02 - 08:35 AM

Any clues to the tune? Is it based on a traditional one?
Cheerily,
Charley Noble,
Roll & Go

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 09 May 02 - 08:41 AM

No, Charley, the tune is original. I could hum it for you, but it will take someone much more familiar than I with writing music to get it to you here...

Any takers??

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 May 02 - 09:14 AM

I looked for an audio file online and couldn't find anything but that cassette for sale.

Celtic Soul, do you have any way of recording it to your computer? It's a great tune.

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:37 AM

Now, if you want to write something I would direct you to the chapter on Nantucket in The Heart Of The Ocean. There is a description of the women's standing in a community where their men were gone for years at a time. they became the legal and social center of the families. It was the women who ran the household and ran the business of the family. When the men came home for the few months between voyages they would essentially follow the women around as they went about the errands that kept house and home together.

And the women apparently turned to opium and physical means to cope with the loneliness. In one house, hidden in the chimney, was found an opium bottle and a six inch plaster dildo.

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:42 AM

Plaster??? Oh..how scratchy and crumbling when wet!*bg* Did no one have a lathe for wood turning or a big vegetable garden?

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: MMario
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:53 AM

scrimshaw!

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Nancy King
Date: 09 May 02 - 10:59 AM

Kat, that very well might be the cassette in question, but I'm not sure because I can't find mine! Don't know if Crab Alley made more than one. I just might have to buy it, but I think I'll search a bit more first. Thanks for the link--and for posting the lyrics!

Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Nancy King
Date: 09 May 02 - 11:02 AM

LOL! Kat, that reminds me of that old bunch of jokes about why a cucumber is better than a man...

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 May 02 - 11:08 AM

Someone has a song about why cucumbers are better than men. It's very funny. At least, the women I know think it's funny. I don't understand it myself....

Subject: Lyr Add: CUCUMBER SONG
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 May 02 - 11:30 AM

Betty Dobson even recommends a peeled carrot for tightening the pelvic floor muscles!

Would it be this one, Naes?


A selection from the World's Largest Hardcopy Hash Songbook
Global Trash Hash Hymnal

Cucumber Song (To: Botany Bay)

A restless young lady from Phuket,
Developed a wonderful trend,
To purchase cucumbers for pleasure,
'Cause she found they were better than men.

Chorus
So line up for your cucumbers, ladies,
They're selling for two bucks apiece,
Your frustrated days are all over,
'Cause cucumbers never get pissed.

In Asia they're eaten with chilies,
In Britain they're put between bread,
But in Phuket we use them as teddies,
'Cause we know that they'll never want head.

They'll never leave stains on the mattress,
They're happy to live in the fridge,
The loo seat is never left standing,
And I've never seen cucumber kids.

So watch out you mighty marauders,
You're not quite as great as you think,
There's no guarantee it will work again,
And we can't trade you in when it shrinks.

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 May 02 - 12:18 PM

That's it!

Now, would someone explain to me why it's considered funny? [BG]

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: MMario
Date: 09 May 02 - 12:31 PM

it's the whole damn seat business - they will NEVER forgive us for that.

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Abuwood
Date: 09 May 02 - 12:44 PM

Thank you Katlaughing, we sang that one with the shellbacks at Upton ( Edna's song) but I missed rehearsal and didn't know the words! Got them now - cheers

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 May 02 - 07:16 PM

Lest there be any confusion, it was the Twiddle song, not the cucumber song, that the Shellbacks sang at Upton festival last weekend - or did I miss something, Ali?

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 09 May 02 - 07:34 PM

Kat, I could send along an MP3 of our version of it...that would get the tune across. The words are a little altered though.

Where would I send it though?

Subject: Lyr Req: When the ships.....men are often gone
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 May 03 - 09:44 AM

Transferred from another thread. I had no luck. Wild_Child requests:

When the ships ..... to sailing and the men are often gone
What about the women who were often left alone
...........until the men come home
......girl..on her on

Chorus:
.........
.....will be broken with dismay
.........(the same as the first one)
.....and your man has gone away

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the ships.....men are often gone
From: MMario
Date: 06 May 03 - 09:50 AM

sorcha - try here

The google description seems to fit - but I'm blocked.

http://members.aol.com/Pintndale/horseslyrics.htm

Subject: Lyr Add: TWIDDLES (Janie Meneely)
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 May 03 - 09:53 AM

I'll be damned! Wonder why it didn't turn up for me?

TWIDDLES
(Janie Meneely)

When the boats all get to sailing
and the men are off and gone
What about the women
who are up and left alone?
Do you think they sit and twiddle thumbs
until their men come home?
Oh there's other things to twiddle
when a girl's left on her own.

Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
Well it's lots of times a man will leave you
broken with dismay
Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
There's others willin' to twiddle
when your man is gone away

I remember Nelly,
she was young and she was gay.
She won the heart of Captain Dan
but then he sailed away.
He left her high and dry
with just a kiss upon the chin
But as his ship went sailing out
another ship sailed in.

And then there was Lucinda Brown
as fair as any maid.
Her true love he went a voyaging,
a sailor man by trade.
"Keep the fire burning, love,"
those were the words he spoke.
So she found herself another man
to keep the fire stoked.

When Lucinda.s man came back
and knocked upon her door
She was as glad to see him
as she'd ever been before.
He left her sleeping in her bed
but Lucy didn't care
'Course the poor guy in the closet
sure could use a little air.

Oh you hear a lot of stories
'bout the sailors and their sport.
About how every sailor
has a girl in every port.
But if you'd added two and two
you'd figure out right quick
That it's just because the lassies
have a lad on every ship.

Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
Well it's lots of times a man will leave you
broken with dismay
Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
There's others willin' to twiddle
when your man is gone away

Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
Well it's lots of times a man will leave you
broken with dismay
Oh, it's twiddley ai dee ai dee o,
twiddley ai dee ay
There's other Willie's willin' to twiddle
when your Willie's gone away

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the ships.....men are often gone
From: MMario
Date: 06 May 03 - 09:56 AM

*grin* You should hear Celtic Soul and her crew do this (If I'm not mistaken...)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the ships.....men are often gone
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 May 03 - 05:40 PM

Damn! If she'd only mentioned "twiddle" I would have nailed that one too.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the ships.....men are often gone
From: MMario
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:09 PM

I found it with "broken with dismay"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the ships.....men are often gone
From: Ooljana
Date: 07 May 03 - 02:11 AM

THANK YOU SO MUCH!
=)

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: GUEST,Tree
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 12:43 PM

Celtic, I'd be very interested in an MP3 of that song....Pweese???


If anyone knows how to get ahold of Celtic, please forward this along.

Send to:

[e-mail]

Thanks to all!!

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 12:52 PM

CelticSoul can be heard singing "Twiddles" on Love at Fyrst Nyte from the Pyrates Royale

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: GUEST,Tree
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 10:39 PM

Life is indeed...lovely :-)

It just so happens that the Pyrates will be at our local Ren Fest this coming weekend....I've seen then a few times at the Maryland festival and they are a wonderful group!

Thank you, Mario!

Incase anyone from the Pyrates happens to read this..."The Florida Girls" are waiting to be welcoming!

Tree, the red-headed Florida Wench

Subject: Lyr Add: THREE DRUNKEN MAIDENS
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 11:33 PM

If the men are away, the girls will play;

Try this;

THREE DRUNKEN MAIDENS (I do not have the origin)

There were three drunken maidens came down from the Isle of Wight
They started to drink on a Monday never stopped till Saturday night.
On Saturday night they came my lads but still they wouldn't get out,
And the three drunken maidens did push the jug about.

Then in came dancing Sally, her cheeks a rosy bloom
Shove o'er you jolly sisters and give young Sal some room
And I will be your equal before the evenings out
And the three drunken maidens did push the jug about.

They had woodcock and pheasant, partridge and hare
And every sort of dainty, no shortage there was there
They'd forty gallons of beer me lads but still they wouldn't get out
And the three drunken maidens did push the jug about.

Then in came the landlord, he was looking for his pay
Forty pounds of beer me lads these girls were forced to pay
They had ten pounds apiece me lads but still they wouldn't get out
And the three drunken maidens did push the jug about.

Where are your fancy hats and your mantles rich and fine
They've been swallowed up me lads with tankards of fine wine
And where are your fancy men, young maidens frisk and gay
You left them in the ale house and it's there you'll have to pay.

You could also look at Sally Free and easy by Cyril Tawney. It is in the DT files.

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 11:53 PM

I'm a liberated, enlightened man and all - but songs like these make me downright nervous.
-Joe Offer, [grinning uneasily]-

Subject: RE: Better things to twiddle--women's sailor song
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 08:35 AM

Shanghaiceltic, look here for loads of information on the origins of Four Drunken Maidens.

Also if you type "Drunken Maidens" in the Lyrics and Knowledge Search box you will find several discussions of the song. But they don't seem to have been cross-linked yet.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Twiddles (Janie Meneely)
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 10 - 06:56 PM

It was great hearing you and Paul ("Calico Jack") at Getaway this year. I didn't realize I was in the presence of such greatness (i.e., the woman who wrote "Twiddles")! Nice to know that!

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Twiddles (Janie Meneely)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Oct 10 - 09:07 PM

It was nice to meet Janie and Paul at this year's Getaway. I had met them at a Mystic Sea Music Festival but we hardly had a chance to chat.

Cheerily,
Charley noble

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Twiddles (Janie Meneely)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Oct 10 - 09:43 PM

Twiddles looks like fun - Can anyone sen me an MP3 ? Or should I buy the CD for one bloody song >>

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Req: Twiddles (Janie Meneely)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Oct 10 - 12:21 AM

ROUND CAPE HORN

D A7 D
Around Cape Horn the young men go
A7 D
When the young men go away
A7 D
Then the young girls dress up neat
D G
They go a-cruisin' down the street
A7
REFRAIN: Right fol day, fol-de-diddle day
A7 D
Right fol right-o, fol-de-diddle day

Far from the fields are the young men gone
Far from home and all forlorn
Wish to God they'd never been born
For to go out cruisin' round Cape Horn ...

And when those young men do come home
This is the story that they hear
"Welcome home, you need not fear
No one has courted me, my dear." ...

Bright false smiles they like for to wear
Bright false bows in long false hair
White satin shoe with a silver bow
Take those young men all in tow ...

@sailor
From Gale Huntington, Songs the Whalemen Sang
filename[ CAPEHORN
TUNE FILE: CAPEHORN