BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas

Subject: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 03:53 AM

Here is a conundrum for everyone... all advice gratefully received.

A band has 5 regular musicians plus a caller but can only get money for 3 musicians and a caller. As it happens 2 members of the band are not really essential to the sound. However one of them gets us a good supply of bookings. So do we....

a) Take less money all round

b) Go out only as a 3piece plus caller for those bookings

c) Get a deputy in and split into 2 lots of 3-piece plus caller for those bookings where the money is low and rejoin when the money is good. There seem to be plenty of bookings around for smaller bands.

d) Any other ideas???

This is not related to the Flying Chaucers band I play/call with by the way!!!

Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Ralphie
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 09:31 AM

Blimey....
You're in a band that makes money ???
Need a Concertina/Bouzouki player?
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Bert
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 10:46 AM

a) - AND tell your customers that you are a five piece band only should they want to book you again.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: PeteBoom
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 10:55 AM

Charge more. Put your minimum price for you to walk in the door is a set amount. This should work out to some amount per person (including the caller if it is a gig that needs the caller.)

As one guy in my five piece band (a reformed "variety band" player) explained - we can play $25 a man "smokey dive bar" gigs every night, and $150 a man "country club" gigs every other weekend. Does your band want be a "smokey dive bar" band or a "country club" band?

They're makin' money from your, you need to put beans and rice on the table, too...

Pete

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 11:57 AM

You could do it on a "need to earn" basis. If someone in the band is a 'mainstream worker' outside music, earning a good salary, maybe they can kick their share over to someone else who needs the money badly to survive.

Tricky, no matter what you do.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 12:42 PM

In the interests of solidarity, split the loot evenly, and next time charge more.

Used to work regularly with a singer who I overheard saying she should earn more because it was her name on the gig, not mine. This from the same person who couldn't take a single gig without me, and another. I always felt it evened out in the end, but apparently she didn't. I've noticed she's not working now.

Unless you're just sitting in, or working for The Rolling Stones, you should split the pot squarely.

My two cents.

Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 01:55 PM

I agree with Mooh. I usually play in a duo or trio format. Generally if all three of us are doing a gig and the person who has booked us suddenly has financial problems, we all take the hit and split the money evenly. I do the booking work and have a problem uninviting someone, once I've brought up the possibility. If it looks like the money will be low, I just book the duo (sometimes we also just get asked for the duo). The less appealing a gig is, the more I charge. If it's obivous they want musical wall paper, we'll provide it, but they have to pay us well. If it appears to be a good, listening audience, we can usually work something out. Our third person in the trio,doesn't have a problem with me booking duo gigs, figuring it's in no one's interest to undercut ourselves. Of course we all have day jobs too.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 02:15 PM

Pick a minimum price per job and stick with it. If they want to pay you less threathen to bring and accordion player. They'll meet your price nearly everytime.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Cappuccino
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 05:15 PM

I was once in a barn dance band where the caller reckoned she should earn more, just for being the caller. The guitarist suggested she try going out solo!!!

And I've never forgotten an ex-wife who decided, on the spur of the moment, to double her price for folk club work. To her astonishment, nobody objected - so it's worth trying!

- Ian B

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Robin2
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 05:47 PM

A)Let the band members know up front what they're getting, and give them the option of playing or not. If everyone agrees to work for the smaller fee, then no one can complain after. This always works great for us.

B) Have CDs or tapes for sale, and push it during the dance. It can make up the difference in pay much of the time.

I have a six piece band, and it is understood that we always make a lot less for contra dances. The dance groups just don't have the kind of money other venues have. Sometimes all of us go, sometimes not, but the band understands upfront what their pay will be and they agree to it, or they opt out.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 13 Dec 01 - 03:44 AM

Yes but what do you do when the ones who SHOULD be opting out insist on staying in and taking the full cut of the money even when they don't need it. Unfortunately it's the same two wot is in charge of getting the bookings.... dilemma indeed but thanks everyone for the advice... in a sane rational world much of it would work!

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 13 Dec 01 - 08:16 AM

If you're only hanging on to these two because they are the ones who get bookings, that's your problem. My advice would be to get rid of the musical dead weight, and reassign booking responsibilities -- either to the remaining members, or to someone outside of the band.

I know, this would only work in a sane, rational world too, but it's the best advice I can offer.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Dec 01 - 07:41 PM

Dumb question, but how have you determined that the am't is for only three? Generally, you would divide whatever you get between those who are playing, deciding when the gig was taken if it was enough or not--

Nother thing, as a practical matter, person who books the gigs generally calls the shots, because if you don't do what they want, they can always get someone else to come in to play the gig--

I once got a call for a long term gig as a duet, called a instrumental soloist friend of mine, who decided that his talent entitled him to 60% of the money--OK, then he took a night off, and so I called another friend, who sang, as well and felt like 50-50 was generous of me--guess who never got called again--

The thing is, though both knew the music better than I did, it was my gig--

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Robin2
Date: 13 Dec 01 - 08:30 PM

Sarah,

Did the non essential player get you the booking? Then I would say they were essential because without them yuu wouldn't have the job.

Everyone in my band are working fulltime musicians, and for us even 25.00 apiece puts food on the table. It's great to get your full amount, but what if you can't? Our motto is make a little, make a lot, but make SOMETHING!

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: 53
Date: 13 Dec 01 - 08:35 PM

25.00 is better than nothing and i've been in sarah's shoes before, and i know what's she's gooing through. BOB

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Robin2
Date: 13 Dec 01 - 08:40 PM

Bob,

You are right, it is a tough place to be. Doubly so when some of the members honestly need the money more than others.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 03:53 AM

.... problem is compounded when the person wot is getting the gigs is an agency with a bit of a monopoly on the area.... uh oh... Still we are trying out (C) as this will give him double commission money and still give him the chance to play.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 07:54 AM

I once encountered someone who thought because they "got" the gigs they were entitled to more. I countered with the fact that I hauled 90% of the gear and did most of the set-up. The subject never came up again. Even (more or less) division of labour usually works. Such things usually are a reflection of someone's ego, methinks.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: 53
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 11:47 AM

our booking agent used to get 15% and then i started booking the dates and started using that money for the band fund to help for emergencys, cause we travelled in a 20 ft ryder truck that we bought used in 96 and one or two other vehicles, we never did make it to the bus level. BOB

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 05:31 PM

I'd say talk with the rest of the band and see what the majority would rather do and go with that.

I would also say that if you have someone there only for the bookings they provide, why not ask them to act as a booking agent instead of a group member?

Again, it sounds to me like the band needs to talk this out and make the decision together.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: Justa Picker
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 07:44 PM

Two axioms come to mind here.


You're worth whatever you can get...

...and...

You're only as good as your last gig.

Subject: RE: BS: Bands, finances and dilemmas
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Dec 01 - 03:18 PM

I might change that to "You're only as good as your next gig".