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BS: Euphemisms and asterisks
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Subject: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,little john cameron Date: 14 Dec 01 - 11:46 AM A wee while ago ah wis oan anither site complainin aboot the moderation policy o' the site. Ah thocht ah wid be clever an' see whit a could get awa' wi' Nae luck!! Ah wis deleted. Ah wrote it in standard english so they widnae know it wis me.Ah'm ANGUS OG in the post.
Posted by ANGUS OG on December 12, 2001 at 15:05:46 Subject: euphemisms and asterisks OK, regarding the use of expletives and colourful language.I find it peculiar that various methods of clandestine use of the language is acceptable. For instance,if letters are omitted and replaced by asterisks then it would seem that the meaning of the offending "vulgarism" is thereby tolerated. As an example,the sentence"The f****ing A**H***e gave the poor woman a kick in the c**t". Now, from what I have observed in the past,this would probably be tolerated.Perhaps the powers that be think the readers lack the intelligence to de-cypher this nonsense? Euphemisms are another example of this,such as Pierre Trudeau using "fuddle-duddle". Also the use of non-english words in place of offending words.That would make the post more interesting to the Moderator,as he/she would have to have a library of dictionaries to catch the culprits.As if he/she did not have enough to do reading this inane drivel! Queen Victoria must be laughing, as her era seems to have returned,if it was ever gone! ANGUS |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Dec 01 - 12:28 PM Well, John, traditional profanity is welcome here, and always will be. However, there are some forces here who have made a lot of noise about speech they consider politically incorrect. This thread (click) really bugged me. Heck, you gotta be careful if you say "M**** C*****mas" to some people around here. Grumble, grumble. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Dec 01 - 12:40 PM Yeah, Joe, recast what that argument was about AND renew it. Good call. *G* ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Dec 01 - 12:44 PM F*** O***, W*******. J** O**** (excuse me for having an opinion) |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,little john cameron Date: 14 Dec 01 - 12:58 PM HA HA, ah even wrote ane as an anagram.It lasted a bit longer,tho' the rubberooter struck again. Vertically handicapped jc. |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Jeri Date: 14 Dec 01 - 01:03 PM Little John, has it ever occurred to you that you might be MORE comprhensible with asterisks" Kn*w wh*t I mean? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,little john cameron Date: 14 Dec 01 - 01:17 PM Probably mair reprehensible!! ljc |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Gary T Date: 14 Dec 01 - 01:32 PM Okay, traditional profanity is welcome here--but what the hell is untraditional profanity? |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Mrrzy Date: 14 Dec 01 - 01:37 PM Whatever used to be the vulgar word for F**K before the Norman invasion, since that was the polite term for the Saxons? |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Dec 01 - 01:43 PM What's with the *** to begin with? Like said, is anyone so stupid they think f**k could be something else....and if so, what? I too would like to discuss what "non-traditional profanity" is......Never heard the term before. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Dec 01 - 01:50 PM I have seen "creative" profanity. Untraditional? Profanity probably goes back to Adam, so I guess all profanity is traditional. Joe, that thread also bothers me. The song that started it all off was an "African-American" song; we don't use that word but it is still common among African-Americans at the bottom of the heap. I hope that in a generation or two people will be more mature and will accept the past, but I doubt it. Are such words profanity, or should they be known by another name? |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: artbrooks Date: 14 Dec 01 - 01:50 PM Huuum.."thy cranial appendage is firmly emplaced within thy rectal oriface" would be pretty nontraditional...just an example, of course, not a comment about any specific Mudcatter. |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,little john cameron Date: 14 Dec 01 - 01:55 PM "African Americans"?? Ah thocht the politically correct term noo-a-days wis "Black Americans" ljc |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: dick greenhaus Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:00 PM re Non Trad vulgarity---and censorship. The late Fred Allen once had a radio show which featured skits, and one of them was a New England bit (Maine or New Hampsha) in which a crusty old character told another, "Go feg your dill." The radio station refused to permit this. Allen protested, saying that the phrase was completely made up and meaningless, but the station maintained that it "sounded" dirty. Finally the script was revised, and the line changed to "Go dill your feg". This, apparantly met the standards for decency, and was allowed to be aired. You figure. |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,little john cameron Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:06 PM Aye it is a strange world D**k.Here's whit a came up wi'. http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_268b.html |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Jeri Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:45 PM Well, Spaw, I like f**k music. Not the Barry White kind, but then I'd guess, to know what type I mean, you'd have to be able to tell what I meant by the *s. And then we'd have to define it. I think non-traditional is to traditional vulgarity as singer/songwriters are to Child ballads. Basically nobody knows what the h*ll they're talkin' about except them. You have to explain things to people, and when they understand what you mean, they ask "so why did you bother?" I'm thinking science fiction TV shows and movies. I watch "Farscape," and they've got a whole bunch of non-traditions vulgarities. "Frell" means whatever any unknown, one-syllable word starting with F usually means on TV. There's something that sounds like "menugnucks" that means male reproductive organs of the sort that normally come in pairs, otherwise known as b*lls. There was another show on (can't remember the name, but it had Lorne Greene and Ritchard Hatch as Capt Apollo, who was a hunk, but I'm rambling) that used the word "felgercarp" to mean fecal material, otherwise known as sh*t. I honestly don't know what good it does to change the word if everybody knows what you mean. (Of course, the made-up words are funny, and the reason they're funny is because they had to be made up in the first place.) Frelling B - what a load of felgercarp! |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bert Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:49 PM Oh Smeg! |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 14 Dec 01 - 05:47 PM Someone above (I'm too lazy to go back and find out who) mused on the fact that an asterisked "dirty word" is often tolerated even though the meaning is perfectly clear. Seems to me that this is because the writer is in effect admitting guilt and apologizing by using the asterisks. A triumph of form over function! Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Dec 01 - 05:58 PM Traditional vulgarity is the kind that offends conservative ideologues. Non-traditional vulgarity offends liberal ideologues. Both sides of the political spectrum have busybodies who feel a compulsion to attempt to control how others speak. Is there something we can say that will piss both of them off? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Dec 01 - 06:16 PM Myself, there are a few words I wouldn't use any time, and I wouldn't use them with asterisks either.
And there are other words and expressions I'd use in some company and so e settings and not in other company and other settings. I think that kind of thing is just part of the give and take and complexity of social interaction. I think people are entitled to that kind of social mechanism, as a way of defining relationships and so forth.
If we didn't have any taboo words, we'd have a poorer language, and we'd have to invent new ones. In the context of folk song, we'd be poorer if we didn't have in our repertoire the possibility of the rhyme that they think is going to break a taboo, and then doesn't by a hairs breadth - or the line that suddenly unexpectedly does break a taboo. Word play.
And think of all the great words that have been invented in this context - "Gor Blimey" may be a way of avoiding saying "God Blind Me", but it's a much more useful words. "For crying out loud" is in many ways a more expressive thing to say than "For Christ's sake." |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Dec 01 - 06:22 PM Separate point, so a separate post. I've asked this begore I think, but noone has ever answered that I've seen.
Was the American use of the word "ass" and "asshole" to replace the older form "arse" and "arsehole" introduced deliberately as a euphemism or is it just one of those variant spellings like labor and theater?
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Sorcha Date: 14 Dec 01 - 06:22 PM Joe, how about "F**K OFF, A**HOLE"..........sooo, f*lk singers should only use traditional profanities/vulgarities? (I love this thread!)
Another board I used to post to had an automatic censor--wouldn't post the the words cockatiel, Jesus, Christmas,prick (as in prick your finger), etc. Silly thing just used ***'s, as in ****atiel--CensorMagic could be gotten around by putting a space between each letter, as in c o c k atiel..........I finally gave up. Don't post there any more, I just couldn't be bothered.
We (the "band") are giving a presentation to the local Historical Society tomorrow. Usually, we just play the tunes, no intro, no background, etc, but I thought since it was the Historical Society it might be cool to tell them some background of the tunes............
You wouldn't believe how many of them are non-PC today, not just "Run Nigger Run". "Colored Aristocracy" actually used to be called "Uppity Nigger". Then there are: |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 14 Dec 01 - 06:27 PM "Tell me a word you've often heard, But it makes you squint if you see it in print" --(I forget who said it) also..as they said in THe Realist many years ago:
F**K Censorship |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Geoff the Duck Date: 14 Dec 01 - 06:27 PM When Lorne Green was the boss in Bonanza, he would have horsewhipped Hoss or Little Joe if they had profaned although he did let slip when some BUGGER set fire to the map of the Ponderosa when he was reading it!!!!!! Try B*ttle*st*r Ga*actic* Jeri! |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Dec 01 - 06:31 PM I do volunteer work at a women's center that is staffed by four nuns. I really do hate prudishness, but I have to admit that I was a little taken aback when 75-yr-old Sister Mercedes said, "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!" in a moment of frustration today. Sister Mercedes keeps telling me how holy she was when she was young, and I keep teasing her about what a "pistol" she is now. She has quite a reputation for her driving - that's when her companions are likely to say, "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!" as they grip the dashboard. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Sorcha Date: 14 Dec 01 - 06:43 PM "Gabriel, Michael, Raphael and all the ArchAngels...." Joe, I believe "Jesus, Mary and Joseph" is a "traditional" Irish alternative for actual cuss words......(grin) |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Dec 01 - 07:08 PM "Jesus, Mary and Joseph" counts as a prayer. A cry for help in moments of exasperation. Very handy. |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Dec 01 - 07:16 PM Well, I suppose it could count as a prayer, but Sister was in a cussin' mood today. She's trying to make up for all those years she was holy, and she sure can be funny. [grin] -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Dec 01 - 07:44 PM A. When people choose to communicate sensitively it does not necessarily mean that they have any desire whatsoever to control how others speak, or even that they disapprove of how others speak, or of the people themselves. It also does not necessarily mean that they are afraid of being un-PC. It can simply mean that their life experience is such that they choose to speak as they choose to speak. B. Asterisks are usually used here NOT so that people will think they are speaking nicely. They are used so that the word intended in all the richness of its vulgar glory will pass an anti-profanity program that keeps otehrwise some members' workplace computers from accessing Mudcat. C. A preoccupation with others' attempts to be controlling often masks an equal effort to control. I found the outcry against my choice of speech, in a thread titled to cover a number of variant song titles, cast in terms of complaints about control, very amusing.... You see, in this case-- it was me who was being pressured, actually! *G* ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: wysiwyg Date: 14 Dec 01 - 07:49 PM PS-- there is a word I just learned for new terms grafted onto old experiences, or used to recast old events in newer paradigms of thought-- a RETRONYM. An example would be that "computer" used to mean what later became called a mainframe, so "mainframe" was the retronym. Later, "computer" came to mean a DOS-IBM clone, but the retronym for that became "PC," which actually means a "WINDOWS-compatible" computer vs. a "Mac..." So that makes me, what, as A**HOLE? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Dec 01 - 07:56 PM Completely f*cked? Sp*w |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Dec 01 - 08:07 PM McGrath, I tried to trace "ass" but not much came up. Webster's Collegiate puts it first and arse second, but fails to put a reference date on ass. The OED quotes Dos Passos 1930, but that doesn't help. It is mentioned in a couple of slang dictionaries that I have, but no useful data. I wonder if it developed through the old phrases, to "make an ass of one's self," or "to be an ass." Both of these are 16C or older (OED). Ass as euphemism is possible, as you suggest, but no evidence. Labor-labour. I was taught that the spelling labour, etc. became standardized in England only after the American colonies split off. I am not enough of a language historian to say whether this is correct or not. |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Jeri Date: 14 Dec 01 - 09:31 PM Joe said: "Is there something we can say that will piss both of them off?" Well, Joe, I have a few idea's.
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: little john cameron Date: 14 Dec 01 - 09:38 PM Main Entry: arse variant ofASS
Main Entry: 2ass Pronunciation: 'as Function: noun Etymology: Middle English ars, ers, from Old English [ae]rs, ears; akin to Old High German & Old Norse ars buttocks, Greek orrhos buttocks, oura tail Date: before 12th century Variant(s): or arse /'as, '@rs/ 1 a often vulgar : BUTTOCKS -- often used in emphatic reference to a specific person b often vulgar : ANUS 2 usually vulgar : SEXUAL INTERCOURSE |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 15 Dec 01 - 12:34 PM McGrath of Harlow: I've heard (and verily believe) that "arse" was so commonly pronounced in English speech with a suppressed "r"--as "ahss"--that a common vowel change in US speech went from the "ah" to a flat "a", resulting in "ass". Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Euphemisms and asterisks From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Dec 01 - 02:12 PM "make an ass of one's self," or "to be an ass" to me at any rate clearly mean to resemble a donkey. As in Midsummer Night's Dream. "I see their knavery: this is to make an ass of me...I have had a dream, past the wit of man to say what dream it was: man is but an ass, if he go about to expound this dream."
I suppose it could be that Webster, or whoever, adjusted the spelling to match the way Americans pronounced the word. I'd think it more likely that there was an element of euphemism in it.
In many parts of England, especially the North where the short a is more prevalant, the way people pronounce "ass" and "arse" is completely different. Even in the South I've noticed that people often tend to use the short a when referring to donkeys - maybe to avoid confusion. I take it that in America people will normally use the same pronunciation whichever sense of the word is intended? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 15 Dec 01 - 05:18 PM I think this is about what the Puritans used to refer to as "perfumed curses." They considered them just as bad as the unfragrant kind. Yes, it is a bit idiotic to believe that something like "s**t" is going to fool anybody. Granny could think it was 'soot,' I guess. I mean, "Gosh and gollies, why not?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 15 Dec 01 - 05:53 PM "..... in America people will normally use the same pronunciation whichever sense of the word is intended? " yes, usually. Most Americans seldom refer to the donkey as an ass. 97% of the time you hear the word it is being used to insult a person or refer to a 'backside', so the short 'a' sound is almost universal. I would go so far as to say that many Americans would even feel self-conscious saying 'arse', as it feels like an affectation and sounds silly. *shrug*...same with 'knickers' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Dec 01 - 05:59 PM Seasonal note - it'd normally be "ox and ass" if you were talking about the Nativity, wouldn't it, even in America? (Unless you've been trapped into singing "Little Donkey" maybe...).
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bert Date: 16 Dec 01 - 12:10 AM Bill, While the pronunciation of ass universally has a short a, as in mass. Even here in the good old USA the longer word is usually pronounced ahs-hole. I've never heard asshole pronounced with a short a. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Dec 01 - 12:41 AM I have, Bert. Where I have lived in Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Illinois and now Alberta. AH is considered eastern by westerners. Bill D is right, we have donkeys and burros but I have never seen an (OH, my,); i. e. ass is seldom used for the four-footed animal in North America. DaveO, your supposition seems logical to me. My wife (from Georgia where R seldom is pronounced) noticed the supression of R in Kent during a visit there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Dec 01 - 01:13 AM Gee Bert, did I neglect to call you an asshole when you were here? Short A all the way here in Ohio. Bill, once again a valid point. I just can't seem to say arse....and as I think about it, it's probably for the reason you state. Very astute.....or would that be asstute? No, that'd be a fart...... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Dec 01 - 01:31 AM Right, Catspaw. "Arse" always gets you a funny look or a titter from anyone listening. Knickers were something boys (and, I think, golfers) used to wear in the dim, dead days beyond recall. I think we assumed wimmen wore bloomers or some such. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 16 Dec 01 - 11:37 AM In the fifties a couple I knew comprised an English exchange student and his wife, from Minnesota. They (primarily he) were pretty far left, even for Minnesota. At parties he (they) often led the singing of "Arson, Rape and Bloody Murder", with great gusto. At one party she sheepishly confessed that they had been married for almost a year before she realized the words he was singing were NOT "Arse and Rape and Bloody Murder"! Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 16 Dec 01 - 11:57 AM ummm...Bert..'ahs'??...where HAVE you lived?..I have heard 'ass' with short 'a' forever!..sometimes even a southern 'ay-us'...but perhaps your ear 'expects' the 'ah' sound..*shrug*.... What a project for a man-on-the-street interview!..."Pardon me sir/m'am, would you pronounce the word on this card for me?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Dec 01 - 12:39 PM "Kick ass" sounds brutal to the poor creatures. And it just sounds a funny way of saying it, like you've been watching too many American movies.
A shared language, but not a common one really. It'd be a drag if it was.
Getting back to the asterisks, it's the difference between a*s and a*se - or would it be a**e.
I like the idea of making innocuous words look naughty by substituting asterisks. "F**k singers are all s**ts" he said, remarking on the diversity of these a******s. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Dec 01 - 12:58 PM "Kick ass" is one of those infantile remarks coined by kids (childen, that is)and picked up by equally infantile advertising perpetrators. I hope it will soon go away. M***y X**s and a H***y N*w Y**r! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Dec 01 - 01:06 PM Hey man, like Dicho, that was a really kick-ass post ya' know? Ya' jus' wanna' bitch-slap 'em doncha'? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 16 Dec 01 - 01:19 PM Mary had a little plane, And in it she would frisk. But when she flew it upside down, Her little * |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 16 Dec 01 - 01:21 PM which makes me wonder..How do Brits pronounce *? arseterisk?...ahsterisk? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Micca Date: 16 Dec 01 - 01:48 PM it is ahsterisk Bill, and the trouble with euphemisms is the euphemism becomes a " forbidden word" too take the rhyming slang "he has lost his Aris ( lost his nerve)" this is a rhyme for Bottle ( Aris =Aristotle=Bottle and Glass= arse) meaning he is so scared he has lost control of his sphincter but Aris is a rhyme for a RHYME because bottle had become known as a vulgarism!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Dec 01 - 01:49 PM Whatever it is Bill, it's probably better than the average midwesterner who says asstrick. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 16 Dec 01 - 01:56 PM 'asstrick'...*grin*..oh, MY. 'spaw...I had mercifully forgotten that one!...it even goes to 'ass-ter-ick' sometimes! Lord help us! (and Micca...like Cricket and that parody/mime game Bert is playing, I have NEVER been able to comprehend how one gets into rhyming slang!...it seems like you'd have to do it all your life to follow the logic and turns!...and as you point out, it has it's own internal hazards) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 16 Dec 01 - 02:02 PM Excellent Bill! I feel the same way. I have tried all the links and good stuff Bert sent me on rhyming slang and I am still lost.....you really have to live it I think. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Donuel Date: 16 Dec 01 - 02:12 PM COLLATERAL VERBAGE
It used to be shell shocked
whites, red necks, Caucasions
It used to be 'we'
It used to be war
It used to be slain
It used to be A-Bomb
Stay in line
In simpler times * your small pox, * your crusade, * your slogans, * you. c2001 D.Hakman
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Dec 01 - 02:17 PM I've never heard anyone pronounce it as "ahsterisk" - short "a" every time. It's cognate with astral and all those other star words, which surely always have the short a, even in posh southern English. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 16 Dec 01 - 02:21 PM Mr Micca, meet Mr McGrath...Mr McGrath, meet Mr Micca...now you fellows play nice together, ya' hear? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Snuffy Date: 16 Dec 01 - 07:58 PM I'm with McGrath on this one, but then I'm one of those northerners who say kassle and kat, not carstle and ket (that 's castle and cat to non-English 'catters) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bert Date: 17 Dec 01 - 12:19 AM One is supposed to work out the rhyming slang from the context even when hearing it for the first time. e.g. A guy is fidgeting on a church pew and he says "These pews are 'ard, me farmers ain't 'arf givin' me gyp" You are supposed to know what he is talking about even if you grew up using the term Chalfonts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Dec 01 - 12:35 AM I'll bite. What if you grew up knowing neither term? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bert Date: 17 Dec 01 - 01:02 AM You should still be able to understand the term farmers from the context. But if you are not English you might have more difficulty with Chalfonts |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Gervase Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:19 AM In West London they're now called Emmas, as in Emma Freud, former TV presenter now married to Notting Hill and Four Weddings... writer Richard Curtis. Which just goes to show that most rhyming slang is a load of cobblers. There are a few phrases which have passed into common currency - like cobblers, trouble'n'strife or whatever - but half the stuff you find on web sites and in tourist phrase books is bunkum. The thing about rhyming slang is that people can and do make up anything you like - as in apple and wombat which, as any fulle no, means "unarmed combat". I used to work with a diamond geezer who was born within the sound of Bow Bells, and he admitted that most of the rhyming slang he used was made up on the spur of the moment with the express intention of confusing middle class wankers like me. Oops, thread creep. I meant w***ers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bert Date: 17 Dec 01 - 07:19 AM Emmas - LOL - I love it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: artbrooks Date: 17 Dec 01 - 08:56 AM "cobblers"? "emmas"? There are probably some things yanks are not meant to understand.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 17 Dec 01 - 09:04 AM art, Think (1)"awls" used to make holes in leather and (2)"Preparation H", I give no more clues! RtS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,Desdemona Date: 17 Dec 01 - 09:41 AM I like all those great old-fashioned blasphemous ones, like "God's bloody wounds!" or "By the teeth of Christ!" I think they count as prayers, too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Gervase Date: 17 Dec 01 - 09:45 AM One American epithet I've always liked is : "Jesus H. Tap-Dancing Christ!". Or there's the earthy 17th Century oath: "God's Ballocks". Neither, of course, suitable for use in church or in front of the devout. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Dec 01 - 11:07 AM Bert, I gather that the guy in the pew doesn't have buns of steel, but the rest is stil beyond me. Artbrooks, cobblers are a form of dessert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: mousethief Date: 17 Dec 01 - 11:30 AM I thought the point of the asterisks was to put the meaning (i.e. the word intended) out of reach of someone too young to be able to fill in the blanks. Once you're old enough, you know what it says, but then again you are (presumably) old enough to handle it (e.g. not to use it in front of grandmother, who would kick your a** if she heard you say "a**"). The whole point is civility. Presumbably before f*** was considered crude, there was something else considered cruder. (Although is there really a need to talk about f***ing in public? In the privacy of one's gynecologist's office, perhaps, but in those days they didn't have gynecologists.) We have a sort of back-burner ongoing debate about expletives with our 18 year old. He claims that since the denotation of f*** and some euphemism therefor is the same, they should be interchangeable. Well, they aren't. Social opprobrium is also part of the baggage a word carries. Those who think otherwise really show how little they know about language. Those who pretend otherwise, in order to shock people, are merely beneath contempt.
Just my opinions, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bert Date: 17 Dec 01 - 12:05 PM Oh Well! It was intended to give Mudders practice in understanding Rhyming slang. I won't tease you further. Farmers, is a short form of Farmer Giles which is rhyming slang for piles. In other areas the favoured term is Chalfont St. Giles named for the town in Buckinghamshire Now Emmas: In West London they're now called Emmas, as in Emma Freud, former TV presenter now married to Notting Hill and Four Weddings... writer Richard Curtis is not true rhyming slang, more like a soundalike, but is close enough to be very funny. Now you've got the hang of it they should be easy to understand now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: mousethief Date: 17 Dec 01 - 01:35 PM I see. All we have to do is figure out what obscure British town or television personality is implied, and figure out what rhymes with their full name. It's so easy. You Burke. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Dec 01 - 02:12 PM Thanks, Bert. I even looked up Chalfonts in the OED- I was familiar with it as a surname, but of course, as Mousethief says, we miss these rhymes because we don't have the places, people or words of reference over here (e. g. farmer Jones here (that may be local). With all the digital channels on TV now, we get a BBC made for Canada channel. I have tried to watch the Eastenders, but I can't understand their lingo. Last of the Midsummer Wine I like, however. By the way, instead of p***s, hemmohroids is the term gaining currency here, even though I can't spell it without a dictionary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: mousethief Date: 17 Dec 01 - 02:23 PM Dicho, to remember whether the 'r' comes before the 'h' or after, just remember it's like a person grunting on the toilet: HHHHHemorr HHHHHHoids. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 17 Dec 01 - 02:57 PM If you missed it, Cletus, Paw, and the Reg boys tried to work out a cure for Paw's 'roids........... Paw's flattulence when combined with his passion for 'shine and hot wings used to be a big problem for him whenever his roids would flare up....so to speak...and it got to the point that little rubber donut pillows and Preparation H just weren't doing the job anymore. Clete's 6th wife was into all the weird and wacky cures so Cletus was always coming to Paw with his suggestions that he'd heard from her. When Cletus told Paw about acupuncture, he disappeared for about two weeks and I'll be damned if anyone could find him. The Reg Boys too had their share of wacky cures for everything from the Great White North of Canada, but most of them involved bear grease and other vile and foamy liquids. Then it happened. The whole lot of them were watching my TV down in the den one night and had been subjected to at least nine hours of infomercials while they slugged down Iron City. I had learned from experience to unplug the phone and hide my credit cards on these nights which only took place when Karen was gone. I'm still paying for that quonset hut in the Aleutian Islands and I have the complete collection of Pan Flute Favorites so I have learned, albeit slowly. I think the one that finally got me was the "Great Michigan Getaway Weekend" which they bought and gave to Karen and I for an anniversary present. It was a month before I found out that they had billed it to my Visa and when we went for "rest and relaxation" in beautiful Michigan, it turned out to be clapped out motel run by a Pakistani in downtown Flint, just across from a closed GM factory. I guess it was about 5:30 AM when Cletus woke me up and said they had the cure for Paw's hemorrhoids. This was more than I wanted or needed to know at 5:30 so after verifying that it wouldn't cost me anything, I said have at it and went back to sleep. When I woke up about 7 I had one of those vague feelings of dread. You know what I mean? Nothing was wrong that I could think of and yet I just felt the world was going to come after me that day. It turned out to be Old Man Rafferty instead....but I'll come to that. The "boys" arrived back at my place about noon having already left when I woke at 7. They were lugging some huge electric motors into my garage and looking about for tools when I walked in and asked what the hell was going on. Cletus then launched into their "cure" and the reasoning behind it. It seems they had watched an infomercial about the "healing power of magnetism" and saw immediately that this was the way to fix Paw's 'roids. Slowly it all began to come together for me and I began to wonder how in the hell these guys could even remember how to breathe! In any case, they'd picked up the motors from out back of Bernie's Electrical Supply and were now going to remove the large magnets inside. They idea was to cut a slit in Paw's rubber donut, insert the magnets, and then duct tape the thing back together. I noticed that Buford had an old jockstrap (with cup) that they evidently were going to use to strap the magnets to Paw's ass, again using liberal amounts of duct tape. Listening to Cletus explain all of this and their newfound theory made me begin to question my own existence, as though I really didn't exist in the world I had come to know, but was simply a bit player in a leftover Rod Serling story. Things started going downhill pretty quickly as the magnets were removed and now were flying across my garage, affixing themselves to various steel things....like my van, my lawnmower, my golf clubs, and a little steel reinforced concrete rabbit that someone had once given us as a joke. I figured that I was going to be better off if they'd finish up somewhere else so I suggested they take all the stuff and head for the pleasant little roadside picnic area on the edge of the village where they could finish rigging Paw up and with any luck, I'd never know anything more about it. After removing the magnets, scratching the hell out of my van, breaking off the head of a 5 iron and the left ear of the rabbit, they left. The picnic area was only about a half mile off, just a bit down Rt.664 and I told them to let me know how it all worked out. Curiosity is a terrible thing sometimes and about an hour later I grabbed my Weimaraner and his leash and set out as though I were just walking the dog. As I turned on 664 I saw the Boys all walking towards me from the little picnic grove. Paw's ass seemed to be a bit large and he was walking funny, but from a distance I could tell they must have done a good job circling his ass in magnets because outside of a slight limp and a big bulge at the rear of his bibs, Paw looked pretty normal. Then it happened. Trailing the others, Paw walked past Old Man Rafferty's mailbox, a new heavy duty steel one to foil the kids with cars and bats. He first slowed, stopped, then flew backwards and before you could say "dumbfuck" he was hanging from his ass on the mailbox. Ol' Man Rafferty was washing his aging Electra deuce and a quarter and looked up to see what was happening. By that time, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg Boys all were tugging on either Paw or Rafferty's mailbox and though they got him off the mailbox was smashed in and the pole was a goner. Well I tell you, Rafferty came flying down the drive, gravel spitting up from his shoes, and swearing a blue streak. Paw was laying about 10 foot up the drive where he'd landed after the force of being ripped from the mailbox sent him sailing through the air. Rafferty bent over him and started yelling in his face and Paw was trying to stand up but being weighed down by the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring. I got up there and tried to get Rafferty to calm down some as the others stood around looking bewildered. Rafferty started blaming me for allowing such "dumbass shitkickers" to stay here and how I should let them rot somewhere else. Before he could say another word, things continued to deteriorate. Paw had gotten to his feet about 15 feet from the Buick and there was a loud clanging thump as one of the hubcaps flew off and affixed itself to Paw's rump. Rafferty grabbed the hubcap and started pulling for all he was worth swinging Paw round and round in a circle. The hubcap folded and broke loose and Paw landed by the side of the road while Rafferty began to rage about his rump-sprung hubcap and twisted mailbox. I got out my checkbook and with a stern look to Cletus asked how much this would cost to keep from calling the police. The sight of my checkbook calmed Rafferty down and my Weimaraner had gone over to the side of the road and was licking Paw's face. Rafferty calculated a sum which I figured was enough to buy a new set of tires and an exhaust system for the Buick and build a brick mailbox, while forcing me nearer to bankruptcy. Cletus and the rest were circled around me as I handed Rafferty the check and when I turned to go, I saw Paw had gotten to his feet again and was bent over stroking Jaeger's head. The dog has always had a soft spot for Paw and when I whistled for him he reluctantly came back up the drive. Bending over to pick up his leash, I heard Cletus say, "Aw Sheeitt!" Right then I couldn't imagine how things could get worse, but I looked up just in time to see Paw lifted from his feet and his ass attach to the exhaust stack of a passing Peterbilt. I watched as the truck roared off, Paw flailing around and in a blind spot where the driver couldn't see him, and the dumbass Reg boys waving "bye-bye" as the Pete rounded a curve down by the Hopewell place. We found Paw at the truckstop at Rt.37 and I-70 where the driver had stopped for fuel. When we arrived, the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring was nowhere to be seen and Paw was sitting on a bag of ice trying to cool the burns from riding 27 miles on an exhaust stack. But I tell you what.....Perhaps it was the scar tissue from the burns that did it, but Paw hasn't had trouble with 'roids since then. Maybe there is something to the power of magnetism..................... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: little john cameron Date: 17 Dec 01 - 03:20 PM How come it says "delete thread from tracer?" ljcGreat story spw.Btw,did you follow up on our Scribbler site? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bert Date: 17 Dec 01 - 03:25 PM Now if you changed the word 'roids to farmers you could almost get away with that story in the pantomime thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Hilary Date: 17 Dec 01 - 03:31 PM Jeri, if you do have some phrases that will wind up both L******s & C************s - I would really like to hear them. In hope, . H
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:26 PM Catspay, oops, catspaw, you are bucking for a most notable threads award. That story is a keeper! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 17 Dec 01 - 06:36 PM I see what MY problem is! I don't follow very well any game or show or comedy routine...etc..where the main theme is **stereotypes**...that is, rules and 'in jokes' which demand that you be aware of pop-culture, current fads and cultural icons! I can't 'do' the American quiz shows any more, because for every question about WW II or Marconi or Abe Lincoln, there are 4 about rock stars, TV sit-coms and movies...and I have not seen a first run movie in 15 years! I can play a mean game of Trivia...IF you & I have similar backgrounds, but I know almost nothing about arcane characters in old TV shows. It sort of worries me what the world would be like if everyone COULD do rhythming slang or play "Who Wants to be a Millionare" too well... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: little john cameron Date: 17 Dec 01 - 07:48 PM Jings Bill,how dae ye get through the day withoot knowin that stuff.LOL. ljc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 17 Dec 01 - 08:35 PM No problem Bill, we all understand....and just want to let you know that Milton Berle was cancelled....thankfully. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: tremodt Date: 17 Dec 01 - 08:51 PM Lots of people around this time of the year simply say F**K Christmas it is the biggest jewish holiday of the year said Tongue in cheek ron |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 17 Dec 01 - 10:33 PM Milton?? gone?...say it isn't so!....*sigh*... and LJC, I just suffer with my Pogo collection...and my 'almost' complete set of the National Lampoon...and my 700 LP records ...and 8 billion web pages to explore...and single malt Scotch....*wink*....and an 8 room house full of books that aren't read yet....and several thousand more types of wood to turn into objects d'art bored silly, I am! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: little john cameron Date: 18 Dec 01 - 08:45 AM Whit's a "pogo" ljc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Bill D Date: 18 Dec 01 - 10:41 AM Pogo Possum was *THE* comic strip of the 50s & 60s for liberals with a love for puns, whacky humor, and irreverant attitudes...a search on "Pogo" in the forum would reveal many of us dredging up old memories.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Dec 01 - 10:56 AM HERE is one of the Pogo websites LJ and you can see that ol' Pogo had quite a following! Walt Kelly was a brilliant cartoonist and many of his words have joined the lexicon of Americana...."We have met the enemy, and he is us." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: little john cameron Date: 18 Dec 01 - 11:10 AM Thanks guys.Anither bit o' trivia for mah collection.ljc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: little john cameron Date: 27 Mar 02 - 09:57 AM Here is a review o' the f****ng subjectfae anither threed aboot colourfu f****ng language.Personally ah dinnae gie a f**k aboot whether JohnpP gets oan his high f****ng horse aboot mah bad f****ng language.So pit that in yer f****ng pipe an' smoke it ye daft f***er. ljc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Mar 02 - 12:50 PM What would we do without L****e J**n C*****n. or C*****w. If s******g wrong, please c*****t. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST,Foe Date: 27 Mar 02 - 01:47 PM I went to a summer camp as a teen that had campers from around the world. As teenagers one of the topics of conversation was dirty words in other languages. The Swedish kid said the worst thing you could call someone in Sweden (if you wanted to get into a fight) was an "intestine." (tidum [sp]) I guess you had write that t***m |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST Date: 28 Mar 02 - 09:52 AM Damn, what would he have thought if you told him we EAT his tidum and call them cracklins? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Euphemisms and asterisks From: GUEST Date: 05 Apr 02 - 12:09 AM When propagandists use glittering generalities and name-calling symbols, they are attempting to arouse their audience with vivid, emotionally suggestive words. In certain situations, however, the propagandist attempts to pacify the audience in order to make an unpleasant reality more palatable. This is accomplished by using words that are bland and euphemistic.
Since war is particularly unpleasant, military discourse is full of euphemisms. In the 1940's, America changed the name of the War Department to the Department of Defense. Under the Reagan Administration, the MX-Missile was renamed "The Peacekeeper." During war-time, civilian casualties are referred to as "collateral damage," and the word "liquidation" is used as a synonym for "murder."
The comedian George Carlin notes that, in the wake of the first world war, traumatized veterans were said to be suffering from "shell shock." The short, vivid phrase conveys the horrors of battle -- one can practically hear the shells exploding overhead. After the second world war, people began to use the term "combat fatigue" to characterize the same condition. The phrase is a bit more pleasant, but it still acknowledges combat as the source of discomfort.. In the wake of the Vietnam War, people referred to "post-traumatic stress disorder": a phrase that is completely disconnected from the reality of war altogether.
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