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Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??

DigiTrad:
THE LIGHT DRAGOON
THE TROOPER AND THE MAID


Related threads:
Light Dragoon - a bit missing? (34)
Lyr Req: Trooper and Maid (from Dr Faustus) (7)


Clinton Hammond 27 Dec 01 - 04:56 PM
Sorcha 27 Dec 01 - 05:06 PM
Coyote Breath 27 Dec 01 - 05:30 PM
Clinton Hammond 27 Dec 01 - 05:36 PM
Susan of DT 27 Dec 01 - 05:39 PM
Clinton Hammond 27 Dec 01 - 05:42 PM
Sorcha 27 Dec 01 - 05:43 PM
Clinton Hammond 27 Dec 01 - 06:14 PM
Metchosin 27 Dec 01 - 07:13 PM
Clinton Hammond 27 Dec 01 - 07:23 PM
GUEST,Desdemona 27 Dec 01 - 07:50 PM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Dec 01 - 09:15 PM
Stewie 27 Dec 01 - 11:27 PM
Maryrrf 28 Dec 01 - 10:08 AM
Clinton Hammond 28 Dec 01 - 10:59 AM
Maryrrf 28 Dec 01 - 03:50 PM
Metchosin 28 Dec 01 - 04:04 PM
Susanne (skw) 28 Dec 01 - 06:45 PM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Dec 01 - 10:12 PM
Metchosin 29 Dec 01 - 12:22 AM
Melani 29 Dec 01 - 01:15 AM
Clinton Hammond 29 Dec 01 - 04:31 AM
pavane 29 Dec 01 - 05:23 AM
Mr Red 29 Dec 01 - 11:05 AM
Malcolm Douglas 29 Dec 01 - 05:13 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Dec 01 - 05:35 PM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Dec 01 - 02:11 PM
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Subject: Trooper and the Maid... In English???
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 04:56 PM

I'm sat here listening to Old Blind Dogs version... and the song is wicked cool! But even the half-anglo version in the DT leaves me shaking my head...

Anybody got a good version, or can clarify the Scots?

ie, "an I'll gar all your ribbons reel"???

What the hell does that (and a bunch of the rest of the song) mean???

;-)

Note: I -am- looking for kinda a line by line scan.. so for those out there who wanna summaries the song, please save your typing o.k...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 05:06 PM

Clinton, I'll go looking. Meanwhile, this thread identifies it as a version of As I Roved Out.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE TROOPER AND THE MAID (from Ed McCurdy
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 05:30 PM

Sorry, I don't know how to do blue clicky stuff. I know of a song called The Trooper and the Maid. I found it on a "Best of Dalliance" album of many years back Ed McCurdy sang it.

There was an old woman lived under the hill
Lolly lolly lolly lo
She had good beer and ale for to sell
Lolly lo, lolly lo lolly lolly lolly lo.

She had a daughter, her name was Tess
Lolly etc.
She kept her at home for to welcome each guest
Lolly, so one

One day a trooper came riding by
Lolly, ya get it
He called for drink most plentifully
Lolly again

He drank one pot and then another
L
He kissed the daughter before (in front of) the mother
L

And when at last to bed they went
L
Twas with the mother's own consent
L

Quoth she "what is this so stiff and warm?"
L
"Tis Ball, my nag, he'll do you no harm"
L

"And what is this hangs under his chin?"
L
"tis the bag he keeps his provender in"
L

Quoth he: "what is this?" (I am missing some words here)
L
Quoth she: "Tis a well, where ball your nag can drink his fill."
L

"And what if my nag should chance to slip in?"
L
"Grab hold of the grass that grows 'round the rim"
L

"And what if the grass should chance to fail?"
L
"Shove him in by the head, pull him out by the tail!"

but perhaps that isn't the song you meant?

CB
L

HTML line breaks added --JoeClone, 3-Jan-02.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 05:36 PM

It is not CB... but ta fer the attempt eh!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Susan of DT
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 05:39 PM

Coyote, I think Clinton is talking about Child #299 The Trooper and the Maid, which has the line he is referring to. Your "L" do not cause line breaks - that is <> with br in between the brackets.

Clinton - I think that is the most mysterious line in the song. The rest of it seems fairly straight forward, but then I sing a lot of Scots songs. What else in the song do want help with?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 05:42 PM

Pffft... It'd almost be easier to list the stuff that I -don- need help with! LOL!!!!!

Ummm... tell y what... I'll come back tomorrow and refresh this thread, with the lines and such I'm stuck on k!

I'd do it now, but I'm an hour behind schedule getting ready for tonight's gig...

Ta eh!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 05:43 PM

Clinton, go look at this one at Contemplator. It's fairly understandable English--is it the same version?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 06:14 PM

Compired to the one posted above, they've compressed her leading his horse, leading him and feeding him...

In the obd version there are verses after he's lain down side her...

The trumpet sounds (?) furrow dales
Saying man and horse make ready
The drums are beat at (?) hill
Lads leave your mums and daddys...

The pipes'd play at (?)
Lads, leave the (?)
The trooper to the fair maid said
Bonny lassie, I'mun leave you...

An' when will you come back again
Ha' ofen will we marry
when frosts it's sna' as warm as snaw
Oh it's then I will na tarry

And they end it with something like...

Cheese and bread for cows and dames (?) (danes???),
Corn and hay for horses
Ol cups of tea is for our wives
And lads for bonnie lasses

They also don't have a 2nd chorus t all...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Metchosin
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 07:13 PM

Eee Clinton, I'll give er a go for you if I get some time this evening and someone doesn't do it afore me, glad you liked it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 07:23 PM

cool...

I'm only gonna be here for another few mos, but I'll check back in tomorrow!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 07:50 PM

This is what it looks like as Child ballad #299, the same general theme as "The Light Dragoon", with no "lolly lolly", alas.

Wish I knew what it meant to "gar all one's ribbons reel"...I think.

http://www.contemplator.com/folk5/trooper.html

PS--I can't blue-clicky either.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 09:15 PM

Gar all your ribbons reel means, literally, make all your ribbons spin/ wheel/ fly about.  I'm thinking that an equivalent American expression might be something like shake your bootie, perhaps?

If we knew where the Old Blind Dogs got their set from, I'd be better placed to help, but they don't seem to be all that conscientious about acknowledging their sources; or perhaps it's just that people who've asked about their recordings here in the past haven't quoted any sleevenotes there may have been.  Did they give any information at all?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Stewie
Date: 27 Dec 01 - 11:27 PM

I don't know the particular version either [it is probably a conflated text] but, in respect of the stanzas quoted by Clinton, Child's A and B texts have:

The trumpet sounds thro Birldale
Says, men and horse, make ready
The drums do beat at Staneman Hill
Lads, leave your mam and daddie
The fifes did play at Cromley banks
Lads, leave the lewes o' Fyvie
And then the trooper he got up
Says, lassie I must lea you
[A text]

There's bread and cheese for musqueteers
And corn and hay for hor(s)es
Sack and sugar for auld wives
And lads for bonnie lasses
[B text]

In his 'Additions and Corrections' section, Child gives a D version which has:

Bread and cheese for gentlemen
An corn and hay for horses
Pipes and tobacco for auld wives
And bonnie lads for lasses

'The Folksinger's Wordbook', with attribution to Child albeit these precise words do not appear in any of Child's 4 texts, gives - it appears to be the one Clinton is after:

It's breid and cheese for carles and dames
And oats and hay for horses
A cup of tea for auld maids
And bonnie lads for lasses

'Carles' are peasants or lowly people. 'Dames' in this context are probably 'unmarried girls'.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Maryrrf
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 10:08 AM

Which Old Blind Dogs album is that song on? I have three of them and that song isn't on them. Love that group!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 10:59 AM

It's off Close To The Bone... track 10... listed as "10.The Trooper and The Maid or The Trumpet Sounds At Burreldales"

Liner notes, I have none... I've never had the chance to by OBD's stuff...

Stewie... Damn fine post mate! ta... that helps me an awful lot... nd by the way, I love your work on Family Guy! Hehehe!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Maryrrf
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 03:50 PM

Thanks, Clinton. I'll look for that one.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 04:04 PM

From the liner notes on Close to the Bone, Old Blind Dogs took their version of the lyrics straight from a group called the Gaugers.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 06:45 PM

The Gaugers in turn found many of their songs in the Greig-Duncan collection. Does anybody have access to it? (I know the Inverness Municipal Library has a copy!)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Dec 01 - 10:12 PM

That's Greig-Duncan vol. 7, I think, which I don't have yet.  There's a text in Ord, too, The Trumpet Sounds at Burreldales, but no tune is given and it's quite a bit different from the set Clinton has quoted from.  The Old Blind Dogs do seem to have got quite a bit of their repertoire from The Gaugers, who did their research and acknowledged their sources.  Pity the OBD don't seem to have thought the tradition important enough to pass on the information.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 12:22 AM

Bah! Humbug! The delight of their singing and their mucianship makes up for any archival shortcomings. For some the music counts, not the bibliography.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Melani
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 01:15 AM

I know a version of it from a very old Theodore Bikel record called "A Folksinger's Choice." (Notable for him in that all the songs are in English--or Scots, which is at least semi-understandable.) I can't remember all the verses, but the chorus goes:

Bonnie lassie, will ye lie near me,
Bonnie lassie, will ye lie near me?
An' I'll gar all your ribbons reel
In the mornin' ere I leave ye.

It's sort of fast-paced.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 04:31 AM

Metch!!!

I hear ya 100%!!!

feckin' -A- right on!

^5's!!!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: pavane
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 05:23 AM

Nic Jones did a version with very little Scots in it - but I don't know if he recorded it - I have it on a tape of a live performance c1973


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 11:05 AM

Coyote Breath
Hey Am I missing something here or is that song called "A Trooper Watering his Nag" and published in "Pills to Purge Melancholy" by Thomas D'Urfey in 1717? And wasn't it considered an old song then?
Sung by the "City Waites" on the eponymous tape sold by "Past Times" in their numerous shops up & down the UK?

When I sung this once a lady thanked me for singing the whole song because she only knew it as an innocent one verse nursery rhyme.
Dover Books published a two volume (as opposed to 3) edition in the 50's (1950's). There is a Dover copy on open shelves at the Bodleain.
I dont think it is the song CH was searching for.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE TROOPER AND THE MAID
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 05:13 PM

As Mr. Red says, a different song, though, like many others, it does have a trooper in it. In the DT:

TROOPERS HORSE From Lloyd's Folksong in England
TROOPER WATERING HIS NAGG From Pills.

On the other question: for myself, I can't understand how anybody who really loves the music can fail to want to know as much as possible about it; and that includes where, and who, it came from. It's not a choice between music and "bibliography" (though I prefer "provenance"; the simple courtesy of properly acknowledging your source) -it's all part of the greater whole. If it's traditional music, then it has a history and a context; ignore them, and you run the risk of turning the song into an ephemeral commodity like a pop song, however well you play and sing it.

I don't expect everybody to agree with me, but I don't accept that an interest in the background of a song implies any lack of interest in or appreciation of music or musicianship. My own experience has been quite the opposite; appreciation is enhanced, not diminished, by the greater understanding it can bring.

Peter Hall, a founder-member of the Gaugers, printed a set of this song in The Scottish Folksinger (Norman Buchan & Peter Hall, 1973); it came from Last Leaves of Traditional Ballads and Ballad Airs (edited by Alexander Keith from the Greig collection). Full details as to source will be in the volume of the Greig-Duncan Collection referred to above. There is no indication of a chorus, though the second verse is used as such by many Revival singers.

THE TROOPER AND THE MAID

A trooper lad cam' here last nicht,
Wi' ridin' he was weary,
A trooper lad cam' here last nicht,
Fan the moon shone bricht an' clearly.

"Bonnie lassie, I'll lie near ye noo,
Bonnie lassie, I'll lie near ye,
An' I'll gar a' your ribbons reel
Or the mornin' ere I leave ye."

She's ta'en his heich horse by the heid,
An' she's led him to the stable,
She's gi'en him corn an' hay till ate,
As muckle as he was able.

She's ta'en the trooper by the han',
An' she's led him to her chamber ,
She's gi'en him breid an' wine to drink,
An' the wine it was like amber.

She's made her bed baith lang an' wide,
An' she's made it like a lady,
She's ta'en her wee coatie ower her heid,
Says, "Trooper, are ye ready?"

He's ta'en aff his big top coat,
Likewise his hat an' feather ,
An' he's ta'en his broadsword fae his side,
An' noo he's doon aside her.

They hadna' been but an oor in bed,
An oor an' half a quarter,
Fan the drums cam' beatin' up the toon,
An' ilka beat was faster.

It's "Up, up, up" an' oor curnel cries,
It's "Up, up, up, an' away,"
It's "Up, up, up" an' oor curnel cries,
"For the morn's oor battle day."

She's ta'en her wee cloakie ower her heid
An' she's followed him doon to Stirlin' ,
She's grown sae fu' an' she couldna boo,
An' they left her in Dunfermline.

"Bonnie lassie, I maun leave ye noo,
Bonnie lassie, I maun leave ye,
An' oh, but it does grieve me sair
That ever I lay sae near ye."

It's "Fan'll ye come back again,
My ain dear trooper laddie,
Fan'll ye come back again
An' be your bairn's daddy?"

"O haud your tongue, my bonnie lass,
Ne'er let this partin' grieve ye,
When heather cowes grow ousen bows,
Bonnie lassie, I'll come an' see ye."

Cheese an' breid for carles an' dames,
Corn an' hay for horses,
Cups o' tea for auld maids,
An' bonnie lads for lasses.

fan = when
Or = ere
heich = high, tall
till ate = to eat
muckle = much
fae = from
grown sae fu' = grown so full, big
couldna boo = couldn't bend
heather cowes = heather twigs
ousen bowes = oxen yokes

Other terms have already been explained, though dames in this particular case are probably married women.

The tune is exactly the same as that given with the DT file: TROOPER AND THE MAID; as Clinton says, that text has been partly anglicised for some reason, and appears to be a slightly altered and shortened arrangement of the Last Leaves set.

John Ord included a short set, without the bedroom scene or the tune, in his Bothy Songs and Ballads (1930). He didn't indicate a source for that particular one, but it appears to be a cut-down copy of Child's version A (from Buchan's Ballads of the North of Scotland).

There's a related English set in the DT, incidentally, though without a tune: THE LIGHT DRAGOON. It was transcribed from a Mike Waterson record; he in turn got it from a 1951 recording made by Peter Kennedy and Alan Lomax of Harry List of Sweffling, near Framlingham in Suffolk (Folk Songs of Britain vol. 2: Songs of Seduction; Caedmon TC 1143 / Topic 12T 158/ Rounder CD 1778). You can hear a brief sound clip (Real Audio) here:

The Light Dragoon Sung first by Harry List, then by his son Fred. The clip is from part 3 of Keith Summers' Sing, Say or Pay! A Survey of East Suffolk Country Music at Rod Stradling's Musical Traditions. Normally I wouldn't link directly to the sound sample, but in this case the link is missing from the article, so it's the only option.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Dec 01 - 05:35 PM

"partly anglicised for some reason,"

I suspect that it's done because, if a North American tries to sing in Braod Scots, he usually just ends up sounding like an idiot!

LOL!!!!!!!!

;-)

This is the sound that I'm trying to avoid...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Trooper and the Maid... In English??
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 01 - 02:11 PM

Malcom, I know the third line of the "Up up up.." verse as "Sheath Your sword in its scabbard case," which makes a colourful double entendre.
Pulling my cloakie oer my heed,
Keith.


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