Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines

Subject: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 04:22 AM

I want to buy a very good quality (sound), very portable Karaoke machine that has both dual tape deck and CD player. If you have personal experience with them and can recommend some or give me info about them, I'd appreciate it.

I will probably be using it as much as an amplifier as for Karaoke (either commercial tapes/CD's or my own). It is important that I have both direct-in line for the guitar and a mike input, and I really want separate volume and tone controls for the two channels.

I also need a counter for the tape decks.

I have had little luck so far. Many are too cheap (lousy sound quality, lousy reverb, uneven tape speed) or too bulky (I want to be able to carry it with one hand). On the other hand, I don't really want to spend more than $500 at most (I'd prefer something around $300, so I'm obviously not looking for the very top end.
Any suggestio

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Fay
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 07:01 AM

Sorry can't help with the technical stuff, but has anyone ever thought of producing folkioke tapes - you know, all the greatest trad hits for you to sing along to in your bedroom?

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:25 AM

DT sound files.

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: GUEST,Gusty
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:29 AM

Genie,

I checked with some of the local music stores in my area, describing your requirements, and they all advised that you should look into Vocalpro. According to them, the Vocalpro line is pretty decent, as far as karaokes go. The model that provides guitar input (also DVD, CD,etc.) is about the size of a small television set and can be carried with one hand. Only problem is, it's $499.99, tax not included. That price was quoted to me by Mars Music in Springfield, VA. They have a couple on clearance right now. One has a wireless mic and they've had some trouble getting it to function, which is probably why it's on clearance. Happy hunting.

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:34 AM

We used a cheap Radio Shack item for awhile but I was never happy with the instrument tone. That was autoharp, which we finally miked to a bass amp. Now I have a Crate acoustic amp for voice and instrument, but I can see where you would want the tape deck a karaoke offers.

Best bet might be to just try them out when you go shopping to check them out. The store would be lucky to have a mini-concert of you I am sure. Just take your own blank tape and have fun!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:42 AM

You might try Supreme Audio, in New Jersey. The Fleco system at the bottom of this page might do it, for $300, although the $1400 MegaStar system at the top looks better, of course (though not so portable)! Click here.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 12:30 PM

buy Used and save

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 01:25 PM

Gusty, thanks for the info about the Vocalpro. The price is fine if it fills the bill. Fortunately, here in Oregon there's no sales tax (though they sock it to us bigtime in other ways).

Susan, I have tried some out in the stores, as you suggested. Problem is, most of the stores (e.g., Radio Shack) don't have good quality ones to try out in the first place!

Guest, I'd love to buy used if I found a good one. Know anyone who wants to sell one?

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Les b (U.K.)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 01:35 PM

Do everyone a favour and don,t bother!
Cheers Les

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:46 PM

Les,
I'm not sure what your objection to Karaoke machines is. Are you opposed to overdubbing sound tracks for CDs? I hope you're not one of those folks who object to any amplification at all. (The Unitarian Church I go to seems to have a strange bias in that direction, with the result that singers are often drowned out by the piano or organ and some choir soloists are not as clearly audible as might be desired.)
I am not trying to turn a folk music venue into a "Karaoke Bar," but with the right machine, one can do in a live concert much of what can be done in a studio, e.g., adding harmony. The sound would, in my case, not be substantially different than if I were singing with my sister (but she costs a lot more and weighs a lot more than a small Karaoke, not to mention the fact that she lives 1,000 miles from me!).

I might mention that another reason I want to develop a few of my own Karaoke tapes is that I have had the experience of having a hand injury at a time when I had a lot of small gigs lined up (in places where other folks sometimes use commercial Karaoke tapes as their sole, accompaniment). I also sometimes have gigs lined up that require me to perform for 6 or 7 hours in one day. My voice can take it, but my fingers can't. So I've been known to do most songs on such days with my guitar but give my hands a rest on at least 3 or 4 songs every hour by singing a capella or using a pre-recorded tape of my guitar accompaniment.

Just curious as to the basis of your animosity.

Genie §: - )

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: 53
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 11:52 PM

karoke is for the birds, get a guitar and really learn to sing. BOB

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 12:03 AM

karoke is Japanese for "Out of work musician"

**BG**

CB

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: 53
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 12:05 AM

amen to that. BOB

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 12:44 AM

Coyote Breath and 53,
Did either of you even read my posts? You are presuming a lot.
Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: 53
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 12:48 AM

MY APOLOGY. BOB

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Les b (U.K.)
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 08:57 AM

Genie, I apologise if you have a serious use for a karaoke machine, but I base my observations on the many ghastly uses they are usually put to.
And yes I do have an aversion to watching somebody sing accompanied by a tape soundtrack.
But if an artist is useing a keyboard and has some pre-recorded material that is used as part of the synth or whatever(I don't realy understand how these things work)I don't mind. In fact just listen to Chris Harvey in Strawhead to see how good it is.
But someone singing along to a tape? no not for me.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 03:03 PM

Yer wrong Cbreath...

Karaoke is Japanese for "tone deaf"...

And well, this may come off as harsh, but if you haven't got the stamina to play your whole gig don't take it...

Pre-recorded guitar parts??? Too cheesy... too Devo...

Do you take a drum machine on stage with you, too??

I was staying in a golf club one weekend when my brother in law got married, and spent most of the time sat in the pub... There was a bloke playing there on the weekends and as musicians tend to do we fell to talking... He would take the "stage" (read 'pub floor') with his guitar, midi'd into his keyboard and COMPUTER, and play along (and poorly at that) to multi track recordings and other garbage!

On one of his breaks he asked me, "So, what do you think? Sounds good eh??"

I looked him in the face and said, "It sounds like you have more money than talent."

Kudos on the acapella thing though... THAT's the best way to give yer hands a break...

On that topic, is it that yer fingertips are too sore to play more? Using Krazy Glue to augment yer calluses really helps the fingertip stamina... Get's me through all kinds of marathon gigs...

*The above is raging opinion and should only be given that much weight eh!*

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: GUEST,Genie (not signed in right now)
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 03:49 PM

Sorry if some of you guys are offended, but again I might ask:
If you make a "solo" CD are you gonna use reverb or digital delay ? How about back up musicians (who are given credit on the back of the CD or in the liner, yes, but whose names and pictures aren't on the cover? Are you gonna overdub for harmony?
I don't know what you, yourselves, do, but I appreciate these enhancements on tapes and CDs and tapes. They add to the beauty of the music.

Before I get back to the real point of this thread, here are several reasons to use a Karaoka machine in live performance:
• You can use harmony.
Some songs are written as harmony songs and just don't sound nearly as good without it.
• You can record yourself while performing, without having to set up extra equipment.
I often don't get around to recording in separate sessions, and if I taped a lot of my gigs, I'd have ready-made demo tapes to choose from. If the tapes were made with a Karaoke so I could sing in harmony with myself, it would be like having used a dual track recorder.
• You can play two instruments at once --e.g., a guitar with a drum or banjo.
So far, I haven't learned how to do this without the help of technology.
• You can give your hands a rest from time to time.
Some of us have to make most of our money on peak days and at peak times of the year, e.g., St. Patrick's, Valentine's Day, other holidays, Christmas season. This may mean performing way too many hours in a day than is healthy for joints. (Ever hear of osteoarthritis among musicians?)

Please don't forget that a lot of musicians earn a good proportion of their money in small gigs that don't pay enough for a trio or maybe even a duo.
(There is, in fact, a discussion of this very thing in a recent thread about getting gigs.)
A capella works in some places but not very well when people are trying to dance to your music, and some audiences don't like to hear much a capella music.
As for turning down jobs because my fingers need a rest--I wish I had that luxury!

Having told you folks (several times) why I want one, I'm hoping some more of you actually have information or suggestions about how to find something with the specs I mentioned at the outset.
Remember, I'm looking for something that makes good quality recordings, has professional quality sound output for both voice and instrument, etc. And until I can afford one with a built-in CD burner, I need a dual tape deck in addition to the CD player.

Thanks,

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: breezy
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 04:15 PM

Youre only getting the anticipated response that I expected to see posted here, thats why I'm visiting.
Its always good for a laugh , even les B couldn't resist a bite on this bone.
Where's the poem then?

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 09:15 PM

Breezy,
I really don't mind the jokes, nor was I too surprised at some folks' bias against the equipment (though I do think it echoes the old bias that folkies used to have against any kind of sound amplification or enhancement).

The idea of "folkioke" bars does make me want to chuckle or cringe, depending on the mood I'm in.

Nevertheless, I'm serious about wanting a good, portable piece of equipment that can amplify, playback, and record all at the same time.
It's too bad I have to call it a "Karaoke machine," because of its association with tacky bars and no-talent, drunken wannabes. But that's what the equipment is called.

The equipment has many uses, some of which are non-commercial.

At the beginning of this thread there were some serious replies, and I'm still hoping for more.

Genie § ; - )



BTW, please excuse the excessive boldface in my blurb a few posts above. I thought I was highlighting only the headings after the bullets-- not the whole *!@%!$#!@$! thing!

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 05:03 AM

Genie, good for you for sticking to the point despite all the flak. At least Sorry I can't help you, except to suggest trade magazines. And perhaps eBay, which can be dicy but might give you some ideas. You might also strike up a conversation with somebody running the kind of karaoke bar that all these folks seem to hate so much--if you could convince him or her that you weren't trying to compete.

A note in the Help forum (click on "Help" at the top of the page) will alert one of the JoeClones to fix the HTML in your post. (They're no doubt overworked now that JoeNotaclone is off honeymooning or some such silliness.)

And Clinton, the guy with the computer may have offended your sensibilities, but nobody was forcing you to stay in the bar. I think musicians (well, anybody, really, but especially musicians) should be very cautious about insulting other musicians. And bragging about it is, to my mind, poor form. But that's just my opinion.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 05:37 AM

Mahalo, Mark, for picking up the thread, Mark, and helping bring it back on track.
Happy birthday (last Friday), BTW!
Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: breezy
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 09:26 AM

Genie has Character.
. Last week-end I was invited to perform a couple of songs at a charity cabaret evening.I was on in the 2nd half, latish, the OTHill glamerous trouper with her sequins, smile, and split skirt to her navel, on her Uke?banjo opened and was down to finish the show.
The evening inc line-dancers and Irish steppers, a comedian and a 13 year-old singing to a karaoke set-up.
I was to follow her and I was going accoustic. The trouble was, she was very good sounding and attractive.She bought the house down.I suggested to the M.C. she do another, so she bought the house down again.As she passed me to get off I called her a few names, in a nice way then got on with my contribution .
The first no. appealed to the family and they all went wa wa wa waltzing with bears then my 2nd no used bodily actions with waving arms and legs. The younger sister of the karaoke star was so enthusiastically brilliant that I dragged her up mid -song without a pause where she duly up-staged her older sister.I had survived,and it closed the show.
I may hear from that young performer again as she made copious notes of names of singers that I suggested she might care to listen to and invited her to come and perform at our folk club.I was also interested in her technical set-up. If I do I'll get back to you and you can ask her .
I can read the bold type easier.

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 01:40 PM

Aw, shucks, Breezy ...
Thanks for everything you said in that last post. That's a great story.

Usually, when I do use the Karaoke machine on a song in performance,I play the guitar along with it (or at least a tambourine).
But there's a guy who's one of my competitors for the small-potatoes gigs I do most often (critter club luncheons, community centers, retirement homes, private parties, etc.) who 'just sings' accompanied by Karaoke tapes (which a friend of his makes for him). I say 'just sings' with my tongue in my cheek. The guy looks like George Clooney and sounds like Dean Martin, not to mention having been either a stand-up comedian or a magician in a former (artistic) life, so he knows how to work the audience. He doesnt need to play an instrument!

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 10:22 PM

Hey Genie! I didn't mean to offend you, certainly, but as an old timey clawhammer banjo player the idea of karaoke in any way shape or form completely mystifies me. I usually play with other musicians or I play solo. I have been playing with myself (now come on you KNOW what I mean!) through taped parts edited and then re-recorded either on tape or (soon to be) on CD but I wouldn't try that in public and would hope that anyone hearing the CD or the older tapes would realize its just me with me (with a little help from me) If I could find others willing to commit to it I'd form an ensemble before I'd do it electromechanically (wow ain't THAT a long word?!)

CB

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 04:08 AM

Coyote, I'll admit that, ceteris paribus, it's preferable to work in an ensemble than to just back yourself up on a CD or tape. But it's not always feasible for reasons of $, schedules, etc.
One neat thing about singing a duet with myself is that my voice blends really well with mine! Funny how that works.
Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: GUEST,Coyote Breath
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 11:03 AM

I love it!

You go with this and have fun. I think the bottom line should ALWAYS be, are you enjoying it and does your audience appreciate it? I don't know which is more important but when people like what you do it is incredible and so nice to experience again and again.

In our small town we have an older guy (actually older than me!) who sings and plays guitar with a pre-recorded back-up. Kind of a Music-Minus-One thing. He has quite a following here. He plays all the old country western classics and focuses on the most 'danceable' of those. Since he has a good voice well suited for his music and since he plays his guitar very well indeed he IS a delight to listen to.

CB

PS I don't know just what equipment he uses but I know it doesn't LOOK like the karaoke devices I see at our locals. If I remember to do so I'll make note of his outift next time I see him and ask him about how he gets the songs on tape in the first place.

CB

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 06:20 AM

Linda and I use the odd backing tracks for Music Hall material. Our excuse is that neither of is a pianist and most Music Hall songs really need a piano (or even a small pit orchestra). I do use a guitar on some songs, but for most MH material you need your hands free for business and expression. MH artists like Gus Elan, Albert Chevalier, Harry Champion, Vesta Tilley, Marie Lloyd (who could play the piano) didn't accompany themselves on stage - it was a case of "take it away professor" to the often invisible pianist in the pit. I make up my own backing tracks from MIDI files, render them into WAV files, put them on an audio CD, and then copy them to mini disk for compactness. Whoever isn't singing then cues the player which feeds into a small PA. The only problem is you have to have a fixed number of "Till Ready"s and repeats have to be pre-planned.

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 12:27 PM

Yeah, Dave, I forgot to mention that another reason for not playing while you're singing is that you may be doing stage business, dancing, or something else at the same time.

What kind of equipment do you use on stage to play your mini disks. You said it's a components set-up, with the player and PA separate, right? Just curious what brands and models they are.

I understand that some "karaoke" equipment is the component type, too. The unit has no amp and is about the size of a small graphic EQ and sits on top your amp.

Anyone know anything about those and which brands/models are the best value and easiest to use?

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 12:28 PM

Yeah, Dave, I forgot to mention that another reason for not playing while you're singing is that you may be doing stage business, dancing, or something else at the same time.

What kind of equipment do you use on stage to play your mini disks. You said it's a components set-up, with the player and PA separate, right? Just curious what brands and models they are.

I understand that some "karaoke" equipment is the component type, too. The unit has no amp and is about the size of a small graphic EQ and sits on top your amp.

Anyone know anything about those and which brands/models are the best value and easiest to use?

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 12:30 PM

Yeah, Dave, I forgot to mention that another reason for not playing while you're singing is that you may be doing stage business, dancing, or something else at the same time.

What kind of equipment do you use on stage to play your mini disks. You said it's a components set-up, with the player and PA separate, right? Just curious what brands and models they are.

I understand that some "karaoke" equipment is the component type, too. The unit has no amp and is about the size of a small graphic EQ and sits on top your amp.

Anyone know anything about those and which brands/models are the best value and easiest to use?

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 12:36 PM

Please excuse the triplicate post. It's Bill Gates's fault. "Explorer" kept telling me it couldn't access the Mudcat website, so I kept re-trying.

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: breezy
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 02:57 PM

Dave Bryant with backing tracks!!!
This must be seen and heard , can you sing' "from a distance" of about 10 miles!!
Dave needs NO p.a. anywhere
see you soon
Hey genie, sorry to hijack your thread.Can you play chords on your 'tambourine and do you bang on your guitar.
Come in Les, woof! woof!

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 03:45 PM

Clinton, bottom line is, if Genie gets the gig and the audience enjoys it, no harm no foul.

Of course Karaoke (which appropriatly stands for Empty Orchestra) at bars is not like that. Usually only one person in the bar is entertained at a time. (the singer) I wish it would go away, and my local is planning to drop it for Open Mike... yahooo!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: GUEST,Genie (sans cookie)
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:40 PM

Jack, I'm with you on that one. Several times I've been at bars (or parties) where people were doing Karaoke on a song that I do with my guitar, and I wished I had to option of playing and singing, instead of only the Karaoke option. I regret that there are so few open mikes nowadays. (Maybe someone could set up a combination Karaoke/open mike--i.e., folks could do a Karaoke song if they wanted, but they'd also have the option of playing their own instruments if they chose. I imagine that a lot of the time, the live instruments would go over better with the crowd.)

Breezy, FWIW, I do sometimes use my guitar as a drum on an otherwise a capella number.

Genie §;-)

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: pavane
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 07:29 AM

My wife uses professional prerecorded backing tracks (in MIDI format) because pubs and nursing homes can't afford to pay for several musicians as well as a singer.

We also use an expensive ROLAND MIDI player, which cost us several hundred pounds, but gives excellent sound,a good PA,and Peavey speakers.

Agreed cheap kit can sound awful,but so does good kit when the user does not know how to set it upcorrectly (i.e. most people)

Ideal is near LEVEL tone controls and keep reverb on voice to the minimum. Most Karaoke users seem to turn the bass up full, thereby overloading the PA and distorting before the middle frequencies are loud enough, and reverb on full. Or treble up too high causing ringing and feedback. On the Karaoke front,I have written software which can turn any MIDI file into a KARAOKE MIDI file, you just have to supply the words. Another of my programs can make abc format tunes intoKARAOKE MIDI files. Watch the Cat for more details soon!

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 04:17 PM

Pavane,
You've hit the nail on the head about why pre-recorded back is often necessary.  How else can you get the sound of a small band or even a vocal duet at a gig that hardly pays enough for one performer?
I'd add that sometimes you may want to use music that 'needs' an instrument you don't play, e.g., a tuba or trombone for Oktoberfest music or a trumpet for a mariachi sound.  (These instruments can't be played while your singing even if you do play them!)]

I agree about the sound controls on Karaoke machines--especially the under-$200 models.  Their reverb is usually crummy in its sound, period, plus so overbearing that even on the lowest level setting, it's too much!   Also, the tone control is usually not very good, and often they don't have separate tone and volume controls for the instrument (direct in) and voice (mic).

I'm intested in hearing more about your software.  Is it compatible with Mac?  I have Sound Jam on my Mac now, and I think it has some Karaoke capabilities, but I haven't really had time to explore them.

Please keep me posted re your software, as well as performance equipment that you're aware of.

Thanks,

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Need advice on Karaoke Machines
From: Genie
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 04:25 PM

Oops!  Lest I contribute to the epidemic of lousy spelling, that should be "...while you're playing...," not "...while your playing... ."  Genie