BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber

Subject: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: beachcomber
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 04:28 PM

Any plumbers in Mudcat membership? I have discovered that the bath in an old house I am sussing - out, with a view to purchasing, has it's cold water supply per a 1/2" pipe to an adapted 3/4" faucet as it comes direct from the mains. Is this acceptable to Local Authorities? is it advisable ?, is is perhaps , even dangerous ?? If no-one knows (or cares) could anyone recommend a suitable web-site and / or Forum. Thanks , in anticipation.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 04:36 PM

Good luck with your question..........On a personal level, the day a real plumber shows up at my house, he'll spend about an hour laughing before he can get to work. The former owner added several new sections in copper and the old pipe is galvanized.....HE had a plumber. In my case, as I've added or replaced things, I've had to graft to both and additionally use plastic pipe. NONE of the adapters that supposedly connect the different materials is worth a damn and you can't get the old galvanized apart where you need to.....Soooo, I have this wonderful mishmash of piping and much of it held together with things I DO know about......auto parts. My basement is a riot!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 04:47 PM

No, I am not a plumber. However, I am something of a fixit guy. Most of your questions can be answered by this: Check your local codes. Plumbing codes can vary quite a bit from one state to another. On top of that, there may be variances allowed for homes of a certain age. The one question I fell comfortable in answering is as to whether it is dangerous. I doubt it is a problem. Hot water lines in many areas of the United States are usually 1/2" pipe. They withstand the standard water pressures without difficulty. A cold water pipe of the same size is not likely to be dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 04:48 PM

You and me both Beach. Damn, I wish I knew fewer musicians and more tradespeople!

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 04:51 PM

An "adapted" 1/2" faucet? Adapted how, exactly? If it is by brazing a 3/4-to-1/2 manufactured adaptor to the inlet pipe and to the faucet you're probably okay. If it adapted by hammering in a couple of pieces from a radiator core job on a 1958 Nash you're probably out of spec as far as a city inspector goes.... :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Allan C.
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 04:56 PM

One further note: If you are contemplating the purchase of this place, GET IT INSPECTED BY A CERTIFIED HOUSING INSPECTOR! It is worth every cent they charge. The best ones are also good about sharing useful tidbits of information regarding things to consider in the years to come.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 05:05 PM

Amos, I quit using Nash parts awhile back although there are some Studebaker parts involved.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 05:18 PM

Personally I use old Rambler parts myself unless I can find old DeSoto parts.

As long as your pipes aren't leaking and it looks like a competent job. It is probably to code. However have the house and plumbing inspected before buying. There shouldn't be a problem with the cold water supply. in fact you probably have a decent pressure. The only concern would be if the piese are leaking or badly corroded. If you think it's hinky, get it looked at.

I worked heating and A/c for awhile and the codes do vary. Good luck and kindest regards, neil

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 05:52 PM

Generally, the cold water to a bath will be 1/2"--is the diameter of the faucet spout 3/4"? This would be about right--and even if you are talking about an adaptor as, as Amos described above, it would not be unusual. I assume that the hot is also 1/2"--though you didn't mention it--does this mean the bath has separate hot and cold taps?

Of more concern would be the amount of water that is coming out of the faucet--build up of mineral deposits can be a problem--also, make sure that the water hasn't been coming out of the pipes somewhere else-

Rick--I have found that many plumbers and HVAC people are also guitar players, and have traded lessons for repair work, sometimes on the spot!

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 06:11 PM

I take it that the use of car parts are tongue in cheek comments. If not then beware that some components in the cooling system are cast aluminium.
If utilising these you are certainly not doing your health any good.
Also remember 9th grade physics, dissimiliar metals - electrolytic corrosion etc etc. Better check the construction metals of those home stills too. Maybe effecting the quality of the juice.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: beachcomber
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 06:49 PM

Jeez Lads,

Plumbers ! who needs 'em. You lot are fantastic. It was just a despairing query ... and...... look at the results. including some great homespun wisdom..

Many thanks fellows (and gals?)

Yes the hot system to the bath seems pretty normal with a 3/4" pipe serving the tap. The adaptor mentioned is screwed on to the tail of the tap, reducing it from 3/4" to fit the 1/2" pipe, which is T- eed off from cold water main feed (1/2" also) to the W/H basin and thence to the kitchen sink. OK? . Just so long as the pressure is not too slow I suppose, and it does seem to be more than adequate. Mind you I would'nt be able to change to a mixer tap with such a system.

Cheers and thanks again.

beach

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 06:54 PM

Possibly stating the obvious: the water pressure will be higher in a smaller diameter pipe.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 07:15 PM

John, back in the days of the cars we're talking about here, the components that are now often aluminum were all copper. But my comments were not all tongue-in-cheek either as several places in my plumbing, including the water heater, are connected to different pipes by heater hose and A/C clamps which are a bit better than standard radiator clamps. Hey...it works.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 08:11 PM

Beach,

Why can't you install a mixer? Or is the question really, is this house going to be worth all the work?

For some reason, a lot of folks in the forum are looking at houses right now, and the holidays being over, it is time to talk about heating, plumbing and electricity--so maybe the time is right to reflect on the more mundane aspects of life--

For myself, I am trying to figure out if there is anything I can do to get the family room and the basement warmer, and the bedrooms cooler--the obvious things have not helped-it is a forced air system, electric--

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Tweed
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 08:20 PM

Your pipes are well sized and not dangerous. If you want to check for leaks and the place is served by city water, make sure all your taps are turned off and go out and watch the meter for a while. If the needle doesn't move for a half hour, your pipes are probably tight. If your on a well and the tank has a pressure guage, check it for pressure loss with no taps on.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 06:55 AM

I prefer to see the entrance (where the water enters) 3/4 inch. Most juridictions call for this, but some are 1/2 inch. The way you actually determine if you are going to have the pressure and flow (two different things) you want is to simulate the worst or common conditions and judge for yourself. Worst, of course, is every fixture wide open. I am sure you can take it from there. Let us know how your tests turn out.

Beware of old houses which appear to be copper plumbed. Often, the Cu extends to just out of site, where Spaw has hidden galvanized steel piping, which will let go at around fifty years old, with horizontal, hot water pipes going first... joints "firster". (Hey, I made up a new word !) BTW, home inspectors and plumbers do not cut holes in walls, so, as far as "have the plumbing checked", be adevised that only the plumbing which can be seen can be checked. Of course, a home inspector will often (not required by guidelines) have a moisture meter and can use this to check around toilets, tubs, showers for leaks.

Pressure does not increase as diameter decreases. (Pressure in an incompressible fluid, such as water, remains constant throughout a contained system.) Flow, of course, does. You can actually increase flow by replacing only a portion of the line.

M.Ted... I'll get to that after another cup of tea.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 07:17 AM

M.Ted... I assume by "obvious" that you mean adjusting the dampers. Other than that, close the bedroom doors, assuming the bedrooms have an exterior wall on at least one side of the room, and adjust the floor damper (I use a sweat shirt with a tome on top) and windows.

Now that we are experiencing winter conditions, it is not practical to leave the windows open because, even barely cracked open, they are subject to moisture freeze up and damage. So, I have used the sweat shirt to adjust myself and have turned the heat down to 15C. I adjust the temperature in the washroom when I shower with my mind, but you could use one of those small portable heaters or have a baseboard heater installed... 500W should do.

Sorry M.Ted, there's no quick fix for a forced air system. However, when your furnace craps out, replace it with baseboard heaters and a few fan force heaters, strategically placed for those areas near entries.

Anyone else got any questions about buildings ? Except guests, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 09:44 AM

I adjust the temperature in the washroom when I shower with my mind,

Gee, Gnu,

How do you know you're showering with your mind? How is it different from showering mindless? ANd if you decide not to shower with your mind on some days -- what do you do with it while you shower?

Enquiring minds want to know.

A

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 10:27 AM

Note that I said, "another cup of tea". I cannot be held responsible for grammatical errors in the morning until well after I have had my full pot of tea . BTW, some days I do shower without my mind... I don't actually do anything with it, it's just in neutral.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 10:34 AM

Come to think of it, I cannot be held resonsible for any grammatical errors or spelling mistakes or punctuation flubs... I are a enginear. Hey, I can't even screw up musically cause I play the Hran !

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 11:40 AM

It's an interesting topic gnu......Many have suggested my mind needs a good shower.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: mooman
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 11:49 AM

Well you are the official custodian of the appropriate Mudcat mascot 'Spaw!

moo

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 11:51 AM

Yes, it's true mooman........and I want to thank you again. Like it ain't bad enough to have an open-ass possum, now I gotta' clean up after him too.........What a mess.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 12:44 PM

And here I thought I was going to find a brilliant political discussion involving Deep Throat, Richard Nixon, and George W. Maybe I should pay attention anyway since I am planning on purchasing a house. My father managed an oil company back in the 60s. Our own heating system was a combination of Rube Goldberg and Fibber McGee. A neighbor, a fireman, stopped in one day, took one look, shook his head and left. The furnace looked like something out of a 50s horror movie, quite capable of reaching out and grabbing little children. I hated going down there. But it worked.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 01:05 PM

If I remember correctly from being a Realtor some years back, you couldn't mix and match plumbing components...and once you started to mess with something you might as well plumb the whole house up to code....jurisdictions probably vary but I would sure check this out with a plumbing contractor and not assume I could patch something up...this can affect getting loans, selling later etc...if you can afford it, and like the house, I would check out the cost of a new set of plumbing...it actually used to be far less expensive than you would think... mg

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 01:48 PM

So now we know what you didn't mean to say, gnu, but I'm still waiting to find out what you actually were trying to say. My curiousity is piqued. (Plus, I like hearing that 'engineer' talk... cranks my thermostat up.)

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: beachcomber
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 03:00 PM

Just back....... Phew, all that info from a forlorn query , again many thanks all . Gnu you sound like quite a pro. My worry, originally, (before some guys threw all those dire warnings at me, but great to have stirred up so much "vibes") was that with a bath supplied by a 1/2" mains water pipe (Town supply - good pressure and flow) to it's cold tap, and a3/4" hot water supply from a simple direct copper cylinder, I might have trouble with things like "knocking" in the cold pipe and could not combine the supplies in a "mixer" tap (Which would have to be 3/4" anyway, if only for flow rate and appearance sake. I think I will leave things as they are, it's an old place with 2ft wide external walls and the partitions not much narrower, but it is in a great location and, in case of emergencies, has a smaller bathroom/shower upstairs. How much ?? too much!

with much gratitude,

beachcomber.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 06:11 PM

OK. I'll try to sort this out. My apologies if I don't mane the people who asked/commented.

Yes, I am an expert. I am an engineer. I am a building inspector. Unfortunately, I am a Hran player.

If anyone, guests excluded, outside my geographical area needs help with any building problems, or needs advice regarding building inspections when purchasing, I would only be too happy to help a fellow 'Catter.

Yes, you can "patch" but it's a patch ! Yes, it affects loans, warranties, etc. As far as re-plumbing, it really depends on the situation... each on it's own merits. It can be FAR less expensive to re-plumb, but it can be a waste of money if the timing isn't right.

CC... I keep the temp at around 15C because I have forced air heat and can't easily regulate different zones. I like it cool, man, especially for sleeping. However, I would really like the washroom to be about 20C, for s****ing, but it is not practical without installing a baseboard. As far as using a small portable heater, my washroom is so small that after installation, I would have to fart in the hall. Therefore, when I shower, I simply shiver and put up with errect nipples and a small dick, not that it matters because I live alone. Ergo, mind over matters.

Knock, or hammer, is easily controlled by the addition of a damper at the uppermost piece of pipe. It's just an extension of the pipe about a foot above the last tee, to allow for some air damping in the extension. Yes, bleeding and restoration of the air is required from time to time. In any case, you may not need it.

As for the odd sizes of the pipe being a problem with the mixer valve, I must admit that I will have to research this... I think a mixer valve should compensate for this on it's own. Hey, the valve compenstaes for differences in the cold water supply temp during the seasons of the year, so why wouldn't it compensate for the differences in the sizes ?

Be advised that I offer this advice free of charge but not free of mistakes, especially after O'Sullivan's pub just opened up the street and is offering happy hour prices on draft beer all week. HIC !!

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 06:52 PM

(Is it hot in here, or is it just me?)

Hey gnu... what about a heat lamp for your washroom? When I was a zookeeper, we had a heat lamp in the little shelter that my collared peccaries used in the winter to get out of the cold. Seemed to work pretty well for them.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 07:06 PM

Yes, a heat lamp is a wonderful thing, yet much more expensive than a baseboard heater and less practical for this situation. It is really a supplemental luxury. Or, just shower together, if you have a "together", and shivering won't be necessary, depending on the demeanour of your "together"... temperature risin.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 07:21 PM

I thought it was the s****ing you wanted the 20C temp. for. You want it for the shower too? And lose those glasscutters?

( ...and we have meltdown)

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 07:40 PM

glasscutters ? Sorry, I've lost you, and me, perhaps. The 20C I want for everything I do in the can. Gee, I guess it's time to get under my sheets and two puffs and try to retain some heat. It's cold in here and the draft is wearing off. Catch ya on the flip side.

www.carsondunlop.com

and many more if anyone wants, just PM me

or just ask, free advice to all 'Cats

now... I have miles to go before I shower

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 07:45 PM

(glasscutters = erect nipples)

Happy trails, gnu.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 09 Jan 02 - 09:43 PM

ouch!

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 10:14 AM

spaw
we always knew you were plumb crazy...........

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: beachcomber
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 02:01 PM

Gnu .... You're one hell of a bloke, thanks for all your help. Can I make a donation to the Fund for Indigent Hran Players? At least I'm glad that Carol C. did'nt suggest that your "peccary" (collared or otherwise) needed any heat treatment.

Good luck all.

beach.

ps. I very much, genuinely, appreciate your help Gnu.

b.

Subject: RE: BS: HELP : I think I need a Plumber
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 02:39 PM

Indignant Hran players ? Ignorant Hran players ?

Don't mention it. Just one favour I ask of you. If you find the answer to the mixing valve question, please PM me with it. One thing, though... when you increase the size of the cold water supply pipe to the mixer valve, do this as far as possible from the shower. If you decrease/increase close to a tub-surround, one piece bath enclosure, shower stall, whatever, you may get resonance from the enclosure amplifying the vibration from the adapter. This is especially true of the newer one piece acrylic or PVC or fibreglass units.