Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !

Subject: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !!
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 04:47 AM

I'm not much of a 'muso' so forgive me if the technical terms elude me. I recently re-strung my guitar while at the same time trying to bring the action down a bit (by filing that yoke/thingymajig that hold the strings up just after the pegs). Since I've done so it sounds uncannily like a harpsichord - rings sort of hollow. Can anyone give me a diagnosis ? I also fitted slightly lighter gauge strings - but I think it's due to the thingymajig being badly filed ... thanks for any help

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 05:11 AM

First off, that 'thingymajig' is called a saddle... just to let ya know...

Ummm... it's gone tinny though eh? Is it buzzing off the frets at all?? Lighter gauge strings will tend yer ax towards the higher end of it's tone, but the sound yer describing is like a "high strung" guitar (using ONLY the octave strings from a pack of 12 strings on a 6 string guitar...)

Sounds to me like maybe ya filed too much away, and now you've lost the good resonence yer guitar used to have...

Find a trained professional, and have them stick an ear to it, and see what they suggest...

Best of luck to ya eh!

;-)

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 06:05 AM

Or is he talking pegs as in tuning machines? In which case it's the nut......Really doesn't matter though....Take it to someone who knows what they're doing. Saddle, nut, neck relief...all that stuff? If you don't know what the "thingies" are why in the hell did ou think you could fix it?

At least try to read some of the info at Frets.Com before you try any other home repairs.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: Grab
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 10:10 AM

If the "thingamajig" is down on the guitar body, then you're talking about the bridge/saddle. If you've cut this down and the underside is no longer perfectly flat, then it won't transfer the sound through to the guitar properly.

It could definitely be due to the strings - the strings you use have an amazing effect on the sound. I made the mistake the other week of buying a set of D'Aquistos which sounded like a squadron of flies trapped in a tin can - I cut them off the following day (literally cut them - I hated the things!) and bought a set of my usual Dean Markley MLs which make my cheap-shit guitar sound pretty nice. You especially get a thinner sound if you've used electric strings instead of ones designed for acoustic playing.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 10:51 AM

Did you remove the saddle from the bridge? If so, maybe the edge that fits into the bridge is not perfectly flat anymore and therefore isn't making good contact with the guitar.
take the guitar to a music store and fit a new saddle to the bridge, one that fits snubly but not so snug as to crack the bridge. Saddles are very cheap and they come in various thicknesses, lengths and depths (gee those plurals look stupid, don't they?)
If fitting the saddle right doesn't help, send me a P.M. I'll ask Paul Geremia, the man really LOVES guitars and he's always fixing up something on one of his friends instruments. He got my old Martin D-28 sounding better than it ever had before simply by using an automobile distribitor "feeler guage" and a mirror to find loose fitting struts and braces. and re-glued them properly.

If you filed the saddle while it was on the bridge, the hard vibrations without a string going through the bridge plate may have jarred the bridge plate slightly loose.+ The bridge plate is a flat piece of hardwood that fits underneath the guitar top, and opposite the bridge. The pin holes go through the bridge, top and bridge plate. the ball end of the guitar string goes into the hole, down through the bridge plate and tucks under the hardwood bridge plate. The bridge pins only keep the ball end of the string tuckd under the bridge plate. There is no strain on the pin, in fact, the string 's tension holds the bridge in place by using the bridge and bridge plate as a parallel clamp. The bridge and bridge plate do need to be glued down tightly because there is "sliding-like" pressure towards the guitar neck.

There is nothing "mysterious" about guitar construction, and all you characters who told this guy to "take it to an expert repair man" , from me to you GO PISS UP A ROPE. If female this is very difficult to do,so you'd better consult with an expert.

Paddy, let me know if my suggestion about replacing the saddle works by sending me a PM and cutting out all the "experts" If it doesn't work I'll put you in touch with Paul.

Oh Lord, protect me from expert technical phraseologists. I KNEW WHAT HE MEANT BY "THINGAMAJIG" WHY CAN'T YOU JUST GIVE HIM THE RIGHT WORD WITHOUT BEING SNOTTY ABOUT IT? fOR GOD'S SAKE, YOU GUYS ARE ACTING JUST LIKE PARISIENE FRENCHMEN. AND I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS IF I SPELLED THAT WRONG.

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 01:39 PM

Cranky Yankee...

The quality of ones thoughts is only as elevated as the quality of ones language... "THINGAMAJIG" is NOT in my vocabulary, because it's a word that helps solve a problem NOT AT ALL... so YOU take your arrogance and cram it with walnuts eh!

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 01:48 PM

First Paddy, if I offended you...Sorry. But it's very easy to screw up and there are many references on the net to people who have screwed up their guitars through not understanding how the parts fit together and how they work in acoustics. I linked you a site of one of, if not THE very finest luthier/repairman to be found anywhere. You will find a lot of info on saddles and how to fit them there.

Crank, and you are......As you probably have a lot of knowledge at pissing up slack ropes, I'm sure you're an expert. But as for your expertise in fixing all.....Do you take that same approach to everything? Worked on your Circuit Breaker Box lately? Then of course regarding guitars and your "expertise", when I read: "The bridge and bridge plate do need to be glued down tightly because there is "sliding-like" pressure towards the guitar neck."........Uh-huh...enough said.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 04:04 PM

Sounds to me like the twang relay is broken. This is a simple 99 cent part you can get at Radioshack.

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: GUEST,frankie
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 04:55 PM

Hi Paddy, I had a Japanese 12 string of undetermined make and it also had a harpsichordal quality which I really hate in a 12 string. A friend suggested I go with heavier strings and tune it down to compensate for the added tension so I went from light to medium gauge strings and tuned down one and a half or two whole steps. After alot of tweaking I had a really gutsy sounding instrument. CAUTION though, if you try this approach be sure that you never tune your instrument up to concert pitch unless the maker says it's designed to handle it with the heavier gauge strings. Some really calamitous things could happen if you do, like a raised top or bridge or both. Having said that, though I think having a setup done by a luthier who really understands acoustic instruments would be money well spent. f

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From:
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 08:20 PM

Cranky! I agree, thingamagobby, and whatsis are valid forms of descriptive nouns, which stand-in for just about anything, and DO!

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: zac
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 08:36 PM

It sounds to me that you may have lowered the action, either from the saddle or the nut,maybe changed strings to a lighter guage to the point the strings are "sizzling" along some or many of the frets which would give what I would discribe as a harpschord effect. That symptom would increase if you had also made an adjustment to the truss rod in addition to any of the other procedures mentioned above.Can you tell if the guitar has any "backbow" in the neck? The guitar should probably have a slight bow (concave)or "relief" in the neck and changing the gauge of the string alone could cause that.

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 08:44 PM

PADDY......Before you try anything else, please go read the relevant information on bridges, saddles, nuts, strings, and neck relief (under truss rod adjustment), at Frank Ford's site that I linked above....Here it is again....Frets.Com

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 09:17 PM

I like the way harpsichords sound. Might make quite a nice change in a guitar.

Some things are worth fighting about. This, I suggest, is not. A bit of friendly vituperation maybe...

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 04:41 AM

Catspaw: Actully I did work on my house electric circuits. Replaced the old fusebox with circuit breakers.
Don't you fix things around th4e house? I like working on "experts only" stuff. . More stuff in the P,M, in day or two

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 08:35 AM

Thanks for all the contributions - no offence taken. Reasons I'm reluctant to go to experts are: 1/ It's nothing fancy guitar wise - probably cost me a good proportion of the guitar's value to get any sort of work done 2/ I live in a small town in SW France therefore the local experts, being French, are even more arrogant and patronising than experts are normally wont to be 3/ when I did go to the one music shop in town with my old broken 'saddle' (now I know what it's called!), I got those legendary French levels of 'service au client' basically 'ere's ze bit, now pees off et debrouille-toi' after they charged me for the piece of un-filed plastic, of course. From what some of you say, I reckon it's the saddle unevenly filed down - must try it without the DTs next time. In French, by the way, George, you can use 'machin-bidule' (m. noun) to substitute for almost any concrete object. Very useful word. Know where you're coming from Cranky. Dunno where you're coming from the organ fella, somewhere just north of 'your vocabulary', I suppose. Slán to all.

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: Grab
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:42 PM

A quick hint: To file something down perfectly flat, you require (a) a flat file (flat both sides), and (b) a worksurface. Remove handle of file, place file on surface, and rub item to be filed across file instead of the other way round. This will at least be flat in the direction you're filing, although it might be rounded slightly in the other direction, but even then it should be better assuming your hands are fairly steady.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: 53
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 12:22 AM

just get a taylor and you'll be ok. BOB

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 03:17 PM

As a get-you-home sort of trick, you could try sticking a bit of something under the string where it goes over the saddle to lift it just a bit. (Loosen the string to get it under, and then tune it up again.) I've found that a section of the plastic ink tube you get in cheap ball-point pens cut in hal lengthways seems to do the trick quite well.

Subject: RE: Help: HELP Guitar Sounds like a Harpsichord !
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 01:54 AM

Patrick, welcome to the fraternity of them as works on cheap guitars. Its the only way to learn. Betcha that's how Spaw learned. And do go to Frets.com, a bonanza of technique and info.