Tech: And the ping goes on, NOT!

Subject: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 04:50 PM

Rather than put this in the tripod thread I had last week, I thought this was of general tech interest enough to warrant its own.

Just got off the phone with Tripod, third time and after two inane emails that were completely irrelevant. Apparently there are many people who are unable to "ping" Lycos/Tripod through their various ISPs and, so, are unabel to access their own sites, let alone just get into Tripod. It's weird, because I CAN get into Lycos and some of its other sites, just not Tripod.

Their latest is that their engineers are still working on it and they've contacted the ISPs of users who cannot ping them to see if they have any ideas.

This whole thing fascinates me and I'd like to understand t better. I know computer systems have to speak the right language and codewords, so to speak, in order to interface and allow us to "browse" but just what is a ping and what in the world would cause such a system specific problem as this?

Thanks!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 04:59 PM

kat, try this: Open an MSDos prompt and type

ping www.mudcat.org (or any other site that takes your fancy).

and press Enter.

You too can ping!

Copied and pasted from somewhere on the Internet: "What ping does is send out a special packet called the Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMP) Echo Request packet. ICMP packets are special IP control messages that are used to send network information between two hosts, usually things like "don't do that," "send fewer packets," "we don't provide what you want," and "don't go here - go there." When a machine receives an Echo Request, it responds with an Echo Reply, placing the original Echo Request packet into the data field of the Echo Reply. "

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: GUEST,Mark Clark (via public proxy)
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 06:56 PM

Ping provides evidence that the site in question is actually up and working without asking for any services from the target site.

---

Interner Primer (somewhat oversimplified)
Every computer on a network is known as a “host” and is assigned one or more hostnames. These hostnames are used with domain names to specify a particular host within a domain (related group) of computers.

At Mudcat, for instance, the domain name is mudcat.org and one of the hosts in that domain is called ragtime. An Internet service known as the Domain Naming Service (DNS) keeps track of the actual numeric address (Interner Protocol or IP address) assigned to each host within its domain.

Information on the Internet is moved around in small chunks known as packets. Every packet contains the IP address of the host that sent it and the IP address of the destination host along with a chunk of information.

The Internet is really a whole bunch of private and public networks joined together by electronic devices known as routers. These routers look at the destination IP address inside of every packet and decide where it should be sent next. They store routing tables that help them figure out where each packet should go.

One may “ping” a host as Jon described in his post (e.g., ping ragtime.mudcat.org) in which case a DNS lookup is performed in order to resolve the actual IP address assigned to the specified domain name. Another way to ping a host is to specify its IP address directly (e.g., ping 207.103.108.99). This will ping the host without performing a DNS lookup first.

It's possible to have a host on the Internet that has a valid IP address but no DNS entry. In that case, pinging a particular host might yield no response but pinging the IP address directly may work.

---

I too am having trouble reaching particular sites and I'm sorry to say, one of them is Mudcat. I am not able to ping any Mudcat host either by domain name or by IP address. I interpret my inability to ping Mudcat's IP address as a routing failure somewhere in the infrastructure of the Internet. I have my ISP working to track down the problem but since Mudcat is the only site I actually use that I can't reach, this may not be at the top of their priority list.

The good news is that there are other places on the Internet from which Mudcat can be reached. One of them is anonymizer.com, one of several publicly available proxy designed to mask one's true identity while surfing the Net. Of course I have no desire to be anonymous but at it allows me to reach, indirectly, the sites I can't otherwise use. The downside is that Mudcat can't see my cookie—it can reset it but not read it—so I can't use any member resources.

Perhaps others can see the pages they need using a similar technique.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: Justa Picker
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 07:11 PM

Firewalls set to "high" security can also block ICMP ping requests as well. Good explanation Mark!

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 09:03 PM

Thanks, JP. As a matter of fact, my own personal firewall blocks ICMP requests just as you describe.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: Amergin
Date: 14 Jan 02 - 09:09 PM

i usually get those icmp requests when a customer is having some sort of connectivity problem....such as speed...

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 04:22 AM

Well, I've got plenty of speed, Amergin, with the cable hookup and judging by the speed with which I connect to other sites, it's no problem.

I really appreciate all of the explanations. I was aware of some of it and I have had my firewall turned off the past few days, but no difference.

Mark, I will try anonymiser, which I have had bookmarked for about 3 years and never used. Didn't realise it would work for that kind of work around. If it cannot read who I am, though, I am assuming I will not be able to edit my pages or anything, though.

Jon, thanks for the info on how to ping. When I was on the phone with my ISP, they had me run "winipcfg" and it showed up that my computer was unable to ping tripod.

Ah well, I hope they get it sorted out. Thanks a bunch, guys!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 04:30 AM

Hmmm anonymiser's free service randomly blocks out certain URLs...I suppose in an effort to get one to buy their product, so I was not able to get into tripod that way. I think I have software which already does a few of the things I saw them advertise. I've got mine set for "safe" cookies, and I use AdAware, thanks JP!, to make sure no "spies" have been placed on my hard drive etc. Should one really be as paranoid as they make out about privacy and security?

Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: GUEST,Mark Clark (via public proxy)
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 12:09 PM

Kat, Here is another shot at finding a suitable public proxy. A public proxy is a host somewhere on the Internet on a different domain and subdivision (subnet) than your computer. When you use a proxy, all your traffic goes through the proxy and the target site thinks the proxy is you.

It's not really necessary to be anonymous. It's possible to use a proxy to get around Internet problems and still be recognized as you. In effect, you are using the proxy as a router (see primer above).

There is a site called ProxyList.com where, if you register (free), you can be given a list of proxy servers—anonymous or not as you choose. Then you simply follow their instructions to set your browser to use the proxy you select. If you choose a non-anonymous proxy, you can bypass the Internet infrastructure problem and still maintain your identity and functionality.

I've now tried this to work around my problem reaching Mudcat and it worked except that the proxy I chose for my test was a very slow one. I'll keep working down the list until I find one that offers acceptable speed.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 12:17 PM

Thanks, very much, Mark! I have to go out for now, but will try it when I get back. I really appreciate your perseverance and help.

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: GUEST,Mark Clark (via public proxy)
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 12:43 PM

Well I just got a call from my cable provider and they are going to try to get my problem fixed. They think the problems may reside in infrastructure maintained by Level 3 Communications. This agrees with what I see when performing a traceroute back to Mudcat.

Kat, You might try this: bring up a DOS shell and, at the C:\ prompt, type tracert followed by the site you're trying to visit (e.g. tracert www.tripod.net) and wait for the trace to time out. This will give you some idea of where, on the Internet, your problem exists. You might need to use the IP address instead of using Tripod's domain name. In that case, try using Ben's phaster online web utilities and use the domain name to get the IP address.

Who knows, you might find that your problem is with Level 3 Communications as well.

Oh, and one more thing. Anyone trying out my advice from home should first have a good personal firewall product installed and configured. Hitting these sites might start to make hackers aware of your existance and you'll start to get unwanted hits on your PC from all over the world. This isn't worrisome unless you normally engage in unprotected Internet use. So remember, always wear, I mean use, a firewall.

Be careful out there.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 01:43 AM

Yeehaw! I'm no longer a guest. First time this year I've been able to get in as a member. I was finally able to convince the support crew at my cable provider that there was indeed an infrastructure problem and they now seem to have fixed it.

Kat, The problem wasn't actually with my provider but with a communications provider responsible for shared Internet services. You might want to try your Tripod site again and see if things are improved for you as well.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 02:12 AM

Welcome back, non-guest Mark!*BG*

I just tried tripod, again and it is still no go. I will talk to my cable service provider tomorrow, though and see if they can do some more looking.

I did the pin trace thingie and it didn't time out, but when it finished it went off, so I could copy anything that came up. It didn't do the no ping message as when my ISP had me to it and I didn't have to use tripod actual IP.

I registered at the proxy thing, but was in too much of a rush to figure out how to set one of them up. If I have time, tomorrow, I will try it.

Mark, I've learned a lot and, again, I really appreciate your help and the "primer."

all the best,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: Amergin
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 02:33 AM

are your proxies turned off?

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: Amergin
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 02:38 AM

what you might want to try...is to shut everything down in the background...save for explorer and systray.....

as it may be something running that is blocking that site...

you might also go to the dos prompt and type in tracert www.tripod.com just to see if it breaks down any where....and to see if the speed times jump up drastically...(like they jump a couple of hundred ms...)

Subject: RE: BS: And the ping goes on.....NOT!
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 02:45 AM

Amergin, what would be in the background to turn off? I know the obvious things.

Also, I did the trace thing, which Mark had mentioned and which I don't know what to read to interpret as. Tripod said it wasn't just me, sweetie, it was many people, from different servers and they have their engineers "on it." Now, I am just figuring out how to go in on a proxy as Mark has suggested. I just haven't had the time, yet. :-)

Thanksdarlin',

kat