Tech: about Microsoft, IE, Outlook

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 05:14 PM

The Irish Potato Famine comes to my mind.
Why?
classic case of monoculture.......... did I hear "VIRUS"?
lack of species diversity
The reason we don't learn anything from history is because those that can make the connection have a hard time explaining it to the analogously challenged. Some of us can remember when IBM was 75 or 90% of the computer industry. Until they lost the plot. Trouble is uncle Bill was the guy who hid it! Not until he finally steps down will we see MS go soft enough to belly-up. Unless there is a PC blight (like a virus but we won't be prepared for this twist!)
I predict both but I can't give a timescale, if I could I wouldn't be telling everyone - I would be laying the bets now.
the problem with monoculture is that so much of the world is geared-up to it. If you are looking for my kinda work you dun gotta be Office literate. "Can learn" equates to the "NO pile".

just a thought but MS & ME are both pretty debilitating ilnesses.

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Grab
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 08:48 AM

How are the alternatives to IE then? Netscape 4 was outstandingly flaky (crash city!), and Netscape 6.0 absolutely redefined "slow" - I'm on an 800MHz Duron with 128Meg, so we're not talking a real low-end machine here! Opera costs money, and Lynx doesn't do any of the fancier websites.

For email, I use Pegasus Mail, and I would recommend this to anyone. It doesn't look as slick as Outlook, but it's got _so_ much more in the way of features.

Office suites - again, how are the options? I've read reviews of KOffice and StarOffice which basically say that neither of them have the features to replace MS Office for relatively serious users.

As some others have said, it's better to approach it from a point-of-view of "how good is this program?" rather than "is it MS?". By all means avoid NT for your servers due to its flakiness, but don't avoid it bcos of the "Bill Gates = Satan" dogma.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 06:06 PM

I'll let you "Explain" it to Spaw (he said chuckling to himself) - Thanks though - seriously - for the info
Steve

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 05:42 PM

ahhh...fair enough Norton...I forget that people do their surfing from work. (I almost never post anything like that, and I seriously wish that folks could insult Microsoft with less 'colorful' language)....now, go explain this to 'spaw...*grin*)

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 01:58 PM

Sort of a thread creep - if a website is being Blue Clickied would you mind telling us if it has obscene words in the addy. I'm on a govt computer and will need to fill out some info for the folks that track our usage. They don't mind us surfing on our lumch and stuff - but websites with the F word in their URL can, and do, get picked up and questioned -

Thanks very much for the info though - I'll look much more closely when I get home.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 02 - 10:04 AM

good..glad it helped someone...(gonna try using something that doesn't PUT them there, now?)

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 11:10 PM

thanks, i erased all the nasty files per directons on the site

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 09:48 PM

yep...I often wish MAC had been smarter early on....they might have gotten ahead of Bill & company and we'd ALL have better, safer, more reliable machines.....too bad so much of our lives is tied to the least dependable appliance in the house....

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: GUEST,flora
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 08:46 PM

I use an AppleMac and the stuff that I can get for that, much of which completely bypasses Bill Gates - and nobody can ever be bothered to write viruses for Macs either, not that I feel smug at all.....

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: mack/misophist
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 08:00 PM

As someone who went back to school, in part, to learn to get away from MS products, I feel compelled to add my two cents. To the best of my knowlege, everything in those two articles is true. One of the things that often alienates engineers at Microsoft is the fact that the marketing and legal departments often have more control over the product specs than they do. Read the company histories and the biographies, it's a common if sometimes faint thread. If they have a corporate saint, it's Vince Lombardi. The policy has always been "Push things past the limit, then back off only as much as you're forced to".

There are many excellent cheap and free products out there to replace MS with. 602 Pro, for example, is a very good FREE office suite.

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 07:12 PM

Art...I'm not sure neutrality is the issue here....truth is a bit more important than their taste in naming the site...(and the article on hidden files was written by someone else).

I do suspect that if the charges are true, then some of the young techies who spend most of their time dealing with this stuff simply don't CARE about site names...(or, they actually hope that the name will attract attention!)

The article is very precise, detailed and clear....I simply CANNOT see why MS has set things up so that when you 'think' you are deleting files, emails, and histories, you really are NOT.....unless it is for MS benefit...or someone they might work with/for...

I, personally, have used IE and Outlook Express very little, out of preference....but I shudder at what the implications are for those who have used nothing else.

(Also...though Netscape 6..etc..may be 'better', it IS owned by AOL now, and I'm not sure I care for THAT situation either *grin*...I am having VERY good luck with Opera and K-Meleon as backups for Netscape 4.7, so I'll just wait and see)...have not tried Mozilla yet, but perhaps soon.

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 06:29 PM

I'm using the open source Mozilla .97 which is the basis for netscape. I have to say I've been really impressed with the performance.

Netscape 6.2 is MUCH better than 6.0 was and it deserves a good look by everybody.

The biggest hassle with non microsoft browsers is all the "enhancemants" that Microsoft has put into its Java Machine that occaisonally give you bad windows on a web site. (Never a prob on this site by the way)

Its part of the chicken and egg problem, those people panderred to by Microsoft dont recognize their own loss of options unless they explore alternatives. So people who only want to look as far as Internet Explorer never see whats being done. :(

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 06:12 PM

While I can (somewhat)sympathize with the sentiment, I'm a little doubtful about the neutrality of anything found on a website called fuckmicrosoft.com. That being said, I do use Netscape out of preference, and it's free....I recommend you avoid v. 6.0, however.

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 05:49 PM

yep...lots to ponder there. IF it is as they say, MS goes far beyond simple hardball marketing, and even beyond the kind of stuff which brought a court action by several states. It 'feels' to me like it would to discover that there was a tap on my telephone....just in case someone needed to check up on me in the future.

To me, re-writing Java and browser specs, even if they are 'fast', just to be sure THEY control the standard ...is like Ford or GM managing to have street lights designed so that their cars would get more green lights....but sending back info on which gas you buy and where you had driven.

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: John Routledge
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 05:24 PM

Many Thanks Bill

Even my somewhat cynical brain read your clickies with some amazement.

Cheers Geordie John

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: GUEST,Mark Clark (via public proxy)
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 04:21 PM

Great sites, Bill. Thanks.

I confess that I don't get so excited about quality problems and market domination by Microsoft. I see them as just another company trying, like all companies, to dominate their markets. This tendance is in the nature of the system. I'd like to help improve the system but it's hard to single out a single company for doing a better job of playing by “the rules.” Note that &ldauo;rules” in this case aren't necessarily the same thing as laws.

Microsoft makes a lot of great software. I can't see any reason to avoid it out of spite. I do however avoid or suplement Microsoft products whenever their product is inadequate, seriously flawed or dangerous to use. I take the same view toward the products of any other supplier as well.

Now if there were no alternatives to Microsoft products from which to choose, that would be a bad thing.

Americans tend to pick a company and doggedly stay with their products no matter what. Some people buy only GM autos, some only Ford—even though both companies have made seriously flawed products. Some people buy only Microsoft... it's a funny world.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 03:56 PM

Thanks, Bill. Looks like this is going to take a bit of study.

Don Firth

Subject: seriously--about Microsoft, IE, Outlook
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 02 - 03:42 PM

I know that Microsoft bashing is a favorite sport, and many people just shrug because they have always used MS stuff and "nothing has happen to ME yet".

I also know that it takes work (that is, looking, asking and installing) to get a PC or a browser, or an email program or a word processor that are something other than Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, MS Word..etc... "it came with my machine, and I'm used to it...why change?"

Why indeed?....well, if you will take the time to peruse a couple of sites, you 'might' see "*WHY*.....

see the article on hidden files, especially do not fret if there is technical stuff that you don't get the details of...just read the lines which make points.

some of the stuff MS & company do to ensure that the world runs THEIR way

I understand...it is LOTS of trouble in this world to totally get away from Microsoft influence and their security holes, snooping, pressure...etc., but it IS possible to avoid much of the worst abuses with a few changes. Your decision....but THESE ARE REAL PROBLEMS, even if not all of them affect YOU directly...yet!

I will not get involved in long debates, as I am not the expert....but a bit of reading convinces me that some of the information in the sites I have posted is research BY experts...see what you think.