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Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen
DigiTrad:
THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN
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Subject: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: michaelr Date: 16 Jan 02 - 03:57 PM Does anyone know the origin/history of this song? Is Skreen a place in Ireland - or could it be a corruption of Skibbereen? Any info appreciated. ~Michael |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Sorcha Date: 16 Jan 02 - 04:34 PM It appears that Skreen is a real place; haven't found info about the song yet. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: lamarca Date: 16 Jan 02 - 04:48 PM Don't know the history, but I DO know that the DT's version for the second verse looks wrong (as are a lot of transcriptions from recordings). Even SingOut recently published the words incorrectly. Here is what the DT has, with my corrections:
A lad I spied by The tune has been "regularized", too - on Mick Hanly's version, there are a couple of lovely accidental notes that make the tune a lot more interesting, and I think the tune is printed that way in Sam Henry or Peter Kennedy (my books are at home, so I can't check right now). |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden whose cookie has expired Date: 16 Jan 02 - 05:26 PM Screen is short for Ballinascreen the Irish name for Draperstown (South County London/Derry. The song is a very beautiful version of the song also known as "P stands for Paddy" or "T for Thomas" |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: DonMeixner Date: 16 Jan 02 - 05:48 PM Hi Michael, The Corrie Folk Trio and Paddy Bell did a version of this tune that I am quite fond of. Roy Williamson, the author of The Flower of Scotland sang it. It was an Elektra recording here in the states. Elektra always had a brief description of the songs in those days. 1960's. If I can find the LP I'll look it up for you. Also try The Corries web site. There is a question and answer forum there. Gavin Browne gives the questions to his father, Rommie Browne and he answers them if he can. Don |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Stewie Date: 16 Jan 02 - 06:32 PM It is #8 in Colm O Lochlainn's 'More Irish Street Ballads' who noted that he had learned it from Dr Seamus O Ceallaigh, a native of Ballinascreen, and that Herbert Hughes had printed the tune and the 3 final verses in 'Irish Country Songs Vol 1' Boosey 1909. A friend of mine used to sing a nice version of this which I believe he learned from Nigel Denver's 'Rebellion' album. --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: michaelr Date: 16 Jan 02 - 07:42 PM Thanks all who replied. It appears there are two possible locations: Skreen, Co. Meath, and Ballinascreen, Co. Derry. I'm surmising here, and welcome corrections, but the word "Braes" could be Scots and, with the known Scots influences in Northeast Ireland, the Co. Derry town could be the more likely one. I'll have to look for Mick Hanly's and the Corries' versions; I'm familiar with the one Steve Tilston sings on the John Renbourn Band's "Ship of Fools" LP (one of the most brilliant albums ever). Again, thanks for the help. Michael |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Alice Date: 16 Jan 02 - 07:58 PM I thought I had written the Hughes collected lyrics in an earlier thread - haven't searched the forum for the old one yet, but in Herbert Hughes, he credited it to an old ballad from County Derry (from his 1909 Vol One of Irish Country Songs). Alice Flynn |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Barry T Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:06 PM Midi and (a set of) lyrics are here, but I can't recall my source for the lyrics. It was from an old book, and the word was spelled with a K. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,BigDaddy Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:14 PM I could be mistaken but I think we'd better turn our quest toward Scotland. I don't know of any braes in Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Alice Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:17 PM ... like I said... the song is from County Derry, Ireland. Alice |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Dale Date: 16 Jan 02 - 08:17 PM I wouldn't know about the Corries/Bell version, BUT I do have the Fureys/Bell version on Capitol International 10559. That album and Capitol International 10543, by Anne Byrne with Paddy Roche and Mick Crotty, are still among my very favorites, and were the very first albums I converted to CD ~~ it is playing as I type) If anyone is interested in a Real Audio of Paddie's version, I will post it. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Dale Date: 16 Jan 02 - 09:24 PM The Corries Discography gives the recording history of both the Corries/Bell (1965) and Fureys/Bell (1963?) versions, both of which apparently were released originally on Waverly. |
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Subject: ADD: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 16 Jan 02 - 09:48 PM here are words I learned from Dave MacDonald, a Welshman living in Newfoundland. The Verdant Braes of Skreen As I roved out one May morning On the verdant banks of Screen I put my head to a tall tall tree To view the dew on her forest green The dew on her forest green A lad I spied near our burnside With a lass by an alder tree Her lips were like the berries when red and she a winsome one to see and she a one to see Come sit you down on the grass he said on the dewey grass so green The wee birds have all winged and gone Since I've my true love seen she said Since I've my true love seen Oh I won't sit on the grass she said No lover I'll be of thine For I fear your heart has gone astray Your love's no longer mine she said Your love is no longer mine Oh I will climb that high high tree And rob the wild bird's nest And back I will take whatever I find To the arms that I love best he said To the arms that I love best (hope I did the line breaks right) ---Jeff (PA)--- |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 16 Jan 02 - 09:51 PM oops. Looks like I did it wrong. Anyway, I heard it is one of those Irish symbolism songs..the arms he loves the best are Ireland..he is going to rob England and take the plunder to Ireland or some such thing...don't know for sure. The wee birds mean something, the birds' nest means something.. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Big Tim Date: 17 Jan 02 - 01:15 PM "brae" is commonly used in the Ireland as well as Scotland eg "Dolly's Brae", especially in the north. I was born in Donegal overlooking Carrowkeel BRAE! John M: thanks for the explanation of the place name, it's one that has baffled and eluded me since hearing the version by Louis Killen in the 60s. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 17 Jan 02 - 02:13 PM The song is too well known in other shapes, from wherever English is spoken, for the symbolism theory to hold water. It almost certainly had its origin outside Ireland. Here are the refs from Steve Roud's Folksong Index of Jan 2001.
T FOR THOMAS Oh if I was to climb a lofty old tree Journal Journal of the Folk-Song Society 8 (1927) p.25 C. Sharp MSS Williams, Mrs. Kathleen England : Gloucestershire : Wigpool Common 1921 (6 Sep) Sharp, Cecil J Text / Music |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Mrrzy Date: 17 Jan 02 - 02:23 PM 2 things: Braes is a singular noun, yes? (And when they bore his body down that rugged heather braes they placed a broad black brimmer on his head). And that line about climbing the high high tree appears in the seemingly completely unrelated Singing Bird. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Henry Date: 17 Jan 02 - 04:44 PM Glad to see you back in the land of the living, John. A Happy New Year to you and yours! Henry |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 17 Jan 02 - 06:02 PM Only sporadically Henry. Brae is a singular noun, braes is plural. The Singing Bird is not a traditional song but by the poet who called herself Katherine Tynan. Any coincidence of image between that song and this is a coincidence not a connection. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Sligoman Date: 17 Jan 02 - 08:01 PM There is also a parish of Skreen and Skreen Beg, just west of Ballysadare Bay near Aughris Head in County Sligo. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: michaelr Date: 17 Jan 02 - 09:43 PM Whoa there John - talk about too much information! But I do appreciate it. Whaen you say "it almost certainly had its origin outside Ireland" may I assume you mean Scotland (and not Liechtenstein)? Thanks again to all you awesome scholars. Michael |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,JTT Date: 18 Jan 02 - 11:47 AM A brae is a kind of shallow little glen. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Mrrzy Date: 18 Jan 02 - 11:55 AM The Wolfe Tones really do sing "that rugged heather braes" not THOSE rugged heather braes. Hmmm. Thanks, though. And to quote the Cardassian tailor on Deep Space 9 - "I believe in coincidence. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences." How old is the poem Singing Bird? While it may not be a "traditional" song it is nonetheless performed as a song by traditional singers, like the Clancy Brothers, which is how I know it. I also heard it sung when I was in Ireland. I'd like to know which came first, the Bird or the Braes, tee hee. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST Date: 18 Jan 02 - 12:38 PM Ballinascreen County Derry derivation = The Townland of the Shrine. Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Date: 18 Jan 02 - 01:31 PM |
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Subject: RE: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 18 Jan 02 - 01:40 PM Sorry about pressing the wrong button just above. The singing by the Clancy Brothers of a song is no earnest of it being traditional.I know of only one singing by traditional singers of The Singing Bird and that is by the McPeake family. The Clancy Brothers almost certainly learned it from them. The author Katherine Tynan (also Hinkson) was living and published in 1894. Try DJ O'Donaghue: Poets of Ireland (1912) for more details. I don't have access to a copy presently. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MartinRyan Date: 13 Feb 11 - 04:41 PM Nice recording of The Verdant Braes of Skreen HERE Regards |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Tattie Bogle Date: 15 Feb 11 - 09:04 AM Beautifully sung! And another one here from Cara Dillon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K07SNDcQc28 |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Richard Mellish Date: 15 Feb 11 - 06:28 PM The word order in the line "Since I've my true love seen" seems to me another indication of the northern Irish origin. I associate the song particularly with the McPeakes. Richard |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Lighter Date: 15 Feb 11 - 07:51 PM Martin, thanks for posting. Wow! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Taconicus Date: 20 Mar 11 - 11:08 AM There's a verse on Briege Murphy's version (audio clip at link) that starts "And I'll not mind...." Does anyone know the origin (and full lyrics) of that verse? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: ollaimh Date: 20 Mar 11 - 11:08 PM i have to agree that mck hanly's version is among the best. i was in the boyne valley a year ago , staying at a lovely spot called the decoy cottages, and we went to a nearby pub in a village called screen. i wondered if that was the site of the origional song==but i guess not. i do love that song. i think john renborne's group ship of fools did a fine version as well--but that takes me back to an old album long gone. hanly's album "a kiss in the morning early" is one of the best folk albims of all time "over black water" from the same era is also fine i play it with a finger picking style guitar accompanyment, in dadgad tuning. people respond well at gigs, but i lack hanly's subtle ornimentation. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Screen Resident Date: 03 May 11 - 01:48 PM I live in Co Sligo Ireland in a parish called Screen and onhe area of the parish is referred to as "Ladies Brae" it may be what the song refers to as one can look west to County Mayo from the top |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Guernsey Pete Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:55 PM I was SURE, positive, positive, it was 'SCREE", no 'N'. Was this just from somebody's sloppy singing, or am I getting old ? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Don Wise Date: 31 Oct 11 - 07:59 AM The Corries & Paddie Bell recorded it on the LP "The Promise of the Day". Unfortunately, the sleeve notes are only about the musicians, not the songs. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Lighter Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:11 PM David Hammond recorded the song beautifully in the 1960s. I can't recall the name of the album. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MartinRyan Date: 01 Nov 11 - 02:51 AM Skreen |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:56 AM According to old Francis McPeake "Braes of Skreen" refers to " a range of hills in Tyrone ". It may possible be in the area of Donacavey, near Fintona. JMA |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Nov 12 - 01:28 AM Yes i learned it off the Corries and The Promise of the Day album. Bu the time I nought it - the version of the Corries withjust two of them playing had their own TV series - so the repackaging of the The Promise of the Day on the Music for Pleasure label was a desperate cash in. I bought it at the local supermarket. The Corries version was only three verses Oh I won't sit on he grass she said No lover will I be of thine For I hear ye lie wi' a corner lass And you heart's no longer mine, she said And your heart's no longer mine. I seem to remember Mick Hipkess of Drowsy Maggie singing a similar version. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:42 AM "... corner lass"? What mean ~~ prostitute, perhaps. Or possibly a mishearing or mondegreen? ~ I know this in most versions I have heard as "For I hear you are in love with a Connaught lass [or 'maid', tho 'lass' better makes an interior ½-rhyme or assonance with 'grass'], And your heart is no longer mine". (Connaught, along with Leinster, Munster and Ulster, was one of the ancient 4 kingdoms of Ireland.) ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:18 AM And running round in my head, a clinching final verse that I can't recall whose singing I got it from ~~ I will never more trust what a young man says Be his eyes either blue or brown, Unless that he be on a high gallows-tree And he says that he wants to come down, my dear, And he says that he wants to come down. Anyone else come across this stanza? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:36 AM Connaught makes more sense |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Jim McLean Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:25 AM The Corries sang: ... for I hear ye lie wi' a Connaught girl .... |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:29 AM And there was me thinking the lucky old boot was having it off with the female equivalent of a corner boy. Or even a girl from notorious Connor family. Silly me! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN (from Hughes) From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Nov 12 - 11:40 AM Sheet music for voice and piano accompaniment can be found in Irish Country Songs, Vol. 1, edited, arranged, and for the most part collected by Herbert Hughes (London: Boosey & Co., 1909), page 1: [Only 3 verses are given.] THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN [Words?] From an old Ballad. [Music?] County Derry. "Oh , I'll not sit on the grass," she said, "Nor be a love of thine, For I hear you love a Connacht maid, And your heart is no longer mine," she said, "And your heart is no longer mine." "Oh, I'll not heed what an old man says Whose days are well nigh done, And I'll not heed what a young man says, For he's fair for many a one," she says, "For he's fair for many a one." "Oh I will climb a high, high tree And rob a wild bird's nest, And back I'll bring whatever I do find To the arms that I love best," she said, "To the arms that I love best." |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:24 PM When I learnt this song a long while ago it included the "I'll not heed ..." verse, as also recalled (with somewhat different words) by MtheGM. Only now following some of the links further up this thread do I discover that some versions lack that verse. I have never been sure which party is saying some of the things. "I'll not heed ..." is probably the girl speaking, but could be the boy telling her not to believe what she's heard about him. Where some versions have "back I'll bring ... she said", the lovely version from Mai Hernon has "back I'll bring whatever I shall find to the girl ...". So there is indeed uncertainty. The alleged new lover is often said to be a "Connaught" maid, but in the version that I first heard it sounded more like "Garnock" and both the Hernon and Dillon versions sound to me like "Carnock". Anyone have theories about that? Richard |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Richard Mellish Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:38 PM Above was me. Cookie now reset. Dunno why it had disappeared. Does someone cause them to disintegrate by dipping them in the tea? Richard |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Nov 12 - 04:42 PM Years ago I won a song writing shield award from Connaught Gold Butter. But even then I didn't make the connection. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN From: Jim Dixon Date: 14 Nov 12 - 07:35 PM From Colm O Lochlainn, More Irish Street Ballads (Dublin : Three Candles, ©1965), page 16: 8.—THE VERDANT BRAES OF SKREEN As I roved out one evening fair, By the verdant braes of Skreen, I set my back to a hawthorn tree, To view the sun in the west country, The dew on the forest green. A lad I spied by our burn-side, And a maiden by his knee, And he was dark as the berry brown red, And she all wae and worn to see, All wae and worn was she. "O! sit ye down on the grass," he said, "On the dewy grass so green, For the wee birds all have come and gone Since I my true love have seen," he said, "Since I've my true love seen." "O! then, I'll not sit on the grass," she said, "Nor be a love of thine, For I hear you love a Connacht maid, And your heart is no longer mine," she said, "And your heart is no longer mine." "O! I'll not heed what an old man says, For his days are well-nigh done, And I'll not heed what a young man says, For he's fair for many a one," she says, "For he's fair for many a one." "But I will climb a high, high tree, And rob a wild bird's nest, And back I'll bring whatever I do find To the arms that I love best," she said, "To the arms that I love best." [End note:] More than fifty years ago I learnt this from Dr. Séamus Ó Ceallaigh who lived at 53 Rathgar Road. He was a native of Ballinascreen and numbered among his ancestors Cormac Ó Ceallaigh, a famous harper and harp-maker. See Ceól No. 3 ** Dr. Ó Ceallaigh. Herbert Hughes has printed the tune and the three final verses Irish Country Songs, vol. i (Boosey, 1909). In Dr. Ó Ceallaigh's house was held one of the last meetings of the leaders before the Rising of 1916. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 16 Mar 14 - 10:02 AM Have little doubt that the Fureys and Corries got it from that wonderful 1962 Topic LP by the McPeake family- Louis Killen was also am early singer, wherever it came from.... |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: zozimus Date: 10 Jul 14 - 07:20 PM In the song "Greenmount Smiling Ann", versions of which occur in many broadside collections, the Ann in the song sings Shiel's "Fair Maid of Skreen". Is this a reference to "Verdant Braes of Skreen" or is there another song about Skreen? I cannot find a link to "Fair Maid of Skreen. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Matthew Edwards Date: 11 Jul 14 - 04:01 PM The Irish Traditional Music Archive catalogue lists a copy of Shiel's Love Songs which they attribute to John Sheil[sic]. None of the listed contents look like the 'The Fair Maid of Screen' mentioned in 'Greenmount Smiling Anne', but for what it is worth I'll add them here:- Mary the Star of Cullfure [song: words only] (air: The Shamrock Shore) -- Nice Little Neat Little Factory Maid, The [song: words only] (air: The Unfortunate Rake) -- Garristown Jack [song: words only] (air: Paddy O'Carroll) -- Brilliant Bright Torch of Ardee, The [song: words only] (air: The Fair Colleen Dhue) -- Posey of Stabannon, The [song: words only] (air: The Coronation) -- Young Henry of Sweet Ravensdale [song: words only] (air: The Bonny Sweet Banks of Finn) -- Flower of Beamore, The [song: words only] (air: The Rose of Ardee) -- Bellewstown Hill [song: words only] |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Matthew Edwards Date: 11 Jul 14 - 04:17 PM The National Library of Ireland catalogue, and the Trinity College Dublin library catalogue, both list Sheil's Love Songs;being a collection of the much admired songs of that popular poet, published at the Argus Office, Drogheda, 1834 in two volumes. The NLI attributes it to Richard Lalor Sheil, 1791-1851, politician and dramatist, while TCD merely credits a Richard Sheil. If the song you're looking for exists anywhere it ought to be there somewhere. Good luck! Matthew |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: zozimus Date: 11 Jul 14 - 04:33 PM Thanks, Matthew, I'm overdue a to NLI, might get there next week. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: zozimus Date: 11 Jul 14 - 04:33 PM Thanks, Matthew, I'm overdue a trip to NLI, might get there next week. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 03 Sep 14 - 10:40 AM The attribution, in most libraries, to Richard Lalor Sheils as the author of Sheil's Love Songs (or to Sheil's Shamrock - which has mainly patriotic songs) is not correct. The author was one John Sheil, a weaver, probably from Co Armagh, whose family relocated to Drogheda during or after the 1798 rebellion. I'm currently working on a paper that will associated Sheil (locally pronounced 'Shale") with a range of songs even greater than that in the over twenty volumes of 'Love SOngs' and 'Shamrock'. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MartinRyan Date: 11 Oct 14 - 09:20 AM Hear the great Frank Harte singing this at The Goilin Song Project - complete with key-change! Click here Regards |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: The Sandman Date: 12 Oct 14 - 05:35 AM very good singing. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 08 Mar 15 - 08:39 AM Reverting to previous point we spent some time on above, re "corner, Connaught, Garnock, Carnock &c": I hear Frank Harte there singing "For I hear you are in love with a fair Connaught maid". Agreed? ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 09 Mar 15 - 08:49 AM Belatedly checking: I find the version in DT gives "Connaught"; & also contains the stanza I asked about 13 Nov 12, 5.18, (the one about wanting to come down from the high gallows tree) which seems to be omitted from sets cited above. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 09 Mar 15 - 10:12 AM A slight geographical oddity -- Skreen is a village in Co Sligo, which is itself part of the region which formed the ancient kingdom of Connaught [or Connacht as the Irish prefer to call it]; so that the girl in the song is herself "a Connaught maid": does it not seem strange then that she should specify her rival as being such, with the implication that she is some sort of intrusive external interloper? ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 10 Mar 15 - 09:59 AM As I said far above, Screen in this song refers, not to the village in Sligo, but is a common abbreviation of Ballinascreen, the Irish name for the town in south Derry/Londonderry renamed Draperstown by the London Company which undertook to develop the land at the time of the Plantation of Ulster (post 1609). |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 10 Mar 15 - 11:23 AM Ah. I had missed that. Thank you, John. I am, I fear, a resolute taxonomist and like things to be just so! ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 11 Mar 15 - 12:47 PM Tho if that is the case, why is the name so resolutely spelt with a K throughout the texts, like the town in Sligo, rather than with a C as your identification would suggest? Still feel some confusion or inconsistency somewhere. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 12 Mar 15 - 12:16 PM Google search discovers that either is widely used - consistency is sometimes unattainable. The Roud Index lists 4 occurances of the song using Screen and 6 that use Skreen so it's also inconclusive. I prefer to use Screen in order to emphasise the generally accepted locus. However, the songs first appearance (in Herbert Hughes' Irish Country Songs' vol. 3) uses Skreen and perhaps the matter should be further investigated. According to Roud the Hughes version was collected in Kerry. I wonder has anyone the book - mine is currently inaccessible - to check whether this is correct, it would be easy to type Kerry instead of Derry? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Mar 15 - 12:37 AM Indeed -- & Kerry is far far away from either Skreen or Screen, isnt it! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Thompson Date: 13 Mar 15 - 01:31 AM Incidentally, 'Connaught' is a British spelling of what we call Connacht in Ireland. Connacht is the western of the four provinces: Ulster in the north (nine counties, six of them in a different jurisdiction); Leinster in the east, Munster in the south and Connacht in the west. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Mar 15 - 03:27 AM Thompson -- You will note that I had already given that info re Connacht in my post 7 back - 9 Mar, 10·12 am.; & also named the 4 provinces (ancient kingdoms) above, 13 Nov 12, 3·42 am ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 15 Mar 15 - 11:50 AM The Herbert Hughes version was collected in Derry. The Roud index entry contains a typo.Kerry for Derry. After some heaving of boxes I have found my copies of Hughes "Irish Couuntry Songs" - in vol.1 pp. 1-3 is The verdant braes of Skreen. It clearly states the source to have been 'From an old ballad' 'County Derry'. The locale is thus more probably Ballinascreen, and it is certain that the text is an adaptation. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,# Date: 15 Mar 15 - 12:09 PM Cara Dillon |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Thompson Date: 16 Mar 15 - 03:31 AM "Thompson -- You will note that I had already given that info re Connacht in my post 7 back - 9 Mar, 10·12 am.; & also named the 4 provinces (ancient kingdoms) above, 13 Nov 12, 3·42 am "≈M≈" Well, no, Lion. You said that the Irish prefer the spelling Connacht. I'm saying that this is the correct spelling. Slightly different. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MartinRyan Date: 16 Mar 15 - 04:17 AM What's a "British spelling" , please? Do Amricans spell it differently, for example? Regards |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 16 Mar 15 - 05:37 AM Where two coexistent spellings for the same concept [in this case an Irish county] are both widely accepted, it is vain dogmatically to pronounce one 'correct' and the other not, Thompson. All one is doing is elevating a personal preference to a rigid and inflexible rule: a conceited, arrogant, foolish affectation. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 16 Mar 15 - 06:11 AM "ISO 3166-2 Newsletter II-1, 19 February 2010, which gives "Connaught" as the official English name of the Province and "Connacht" as the official Irish name of the Province and cites "Ordnance Survey Office, Dublin 1993" as its source" – Wikipedia |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: michaelr Date: 16 Mar 15 - 05:06 PM a conceited, arrogant, foolish affectation said he without a hint of irony. Well, so is pedantry. In addition, it should be up to the Irish to decide the correct spelling of their geographical entities. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MGM·Lion Date: 16 Mar 15 - 05:56 PM Disagree, michaelr. It may be the 'correct spelling' in Irish; but the English language happens to have another name for it. Or do you object to the French daring to call our capital 'Londres', and the Italians 'Londra'? Or do you call the Irish capital, in normal conversation [or even in your mind], Baile Átha Cliath? Away you! Here's one for you -- what are the capitals of Italy, Israel and Russia. ≈M≈ If you replied Roma, Yerushalayim, Moskva, you are an affected booby! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MartinRyan Date: 16 Mar 15 - 06:20 PM I suspect Michaelr is just arguing for the crack... Regards |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: michaelr Date: 16 Mar 15 - 06:25 PM Yes, actually, I do object. As a native German, it's long bothered me that Koeln has become "Cologne" and Muenchen "Munich" to English speakers - I suppose it's because English speakers can't be arsed to learn how to pronounce German umlauts and gutturals. However, "London" should be as easy for a French speaker to say as "Londres", so why make up your own version? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Thompson Date: 16 Mar 15 - 07:57 PM I don't want to fall out with anyone over this, but Connacht is the name in English as well. Connaught is the name of a hotel, and indeed one of the local newspapers keeps this nostalgic spelling 'The Connaught Tribune' (the other is the Connacht Telegraph), but no literate person would seriously think of spelling the province in any way other than Connacht nowadays. But as I say, it's not something to fall out about. If you prefer the Anglo spelling harking back to the days of Empire, stick with it and we can still be friends. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: MartinRyan Date: 16 Mar 15 - 08:52 PM OK. So "Connaught" is British English and "Connacht" is Hiberno-English - or Irish English, if you prefer. No problem. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 17 Mar 15 - 08:11 AM Beware "Thread Creep" and I'm not being personal. Connacht, Connaught, grand as long as we understand one another. So to return to the Topic - it appears to have been overlooked that I have above, clarified the location of the version of 'The Verdant Braes of Skreen' that is published in Herbert Hughes' Irish Country Songs' Vol. 1. - it's County Derry. Nevertheless, Hughes' text has been 'adapted'. and Skreen might be an affectation. However, Colm Ó Lochlainn in More Irish Street Ballads (no. 8) gives the song and, in his note, credits it to the singing of Dr Seán O Ceallaigh, a native of Ballinascreen. The only other versions that use the spelling Skreen are a range of recordings by the McPeakes, themselves originally from Derry. Can anything more be said without further evidence? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Fear Ciuin Date: 26 Aug 18 - 10:18 AM I'm delighted someone mentioned Skreen in Co Sligo even though it might not be connected to the song but never fear it has it's song THE BEAUTY OF SKREEN The beauty of Skreen is the sweetest I’ve seen, It is a joy to behold, From the Ox mountains to the ocean so deep, Each day sees its grandeur unfold. It nestles in the County of Sligo, Between Templeboy and Dromard, A perfect oasis so charming, Enough to inspire a bard. (Chorus) I want to fly over the Ox mountains Where the sights make my heart want to sing Those verdant braes always excite me I feel like a bird on the wing Ladies Brae always looks so majestic, From its vantage point ever so high, O’er a scene that is so panoramic, From here my delights multiply. On Dunmoran Strand I oft times stroll out, As the waves just lap at my feet, That setting so calm and so peaceful, It is both a tonic and treat. The grass around Skreen is so very green, Beside the Atlantic so blue, It ever enhances, it ever entrances, It is such an enchanting view. Leekfield, Massreagh down to Soodry, Farnaharpy up to Doonflynn, How often I’ve travelled those highways, As I hope to again and again. If ever you feel at a loose end, If you need someplace to go, Just take a trip o’er those mountains, And gaze on the beauty below. Your spirits will soar with the angels, Your joy it will be unconfined, In the jewel of the sweet county Sligo, Which will linger long in your mind. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,Bearheart Date: 16 Sep 18 - 07:35 PM I don't know how to format this correctly but this is Altan's version. I tend to trust Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh with the Gaelic (and most everything else!). The the first line of the second verse is quite different from how others have scanned it. If you look here: https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/abhann it seems to refer to a river (side). As I roved out one evening fair By the verdant braes of Screen I set my back to a hawthorn tree To view the sun in the west country And the dew on the forest green A lad I spied by Abhann's side And a maiden by his knee And he was as dark as the very brown wood And she all whey and wan to see All whey and wan was she "Oh sit you down on the grass," he said "On the dewy grass so green For the wee birds all have come and gone Since I my true love have seen," he said "Since I my true love have seen" "Then I'll not sit on the grass," she said "Nor be a love of thine For I hear you love a Connaught maid And your heart's no longer mine," she said "And your heart's no longer mine" "And I will climb a high, high tree And I'll rob a wild bird's nest And back I'll bring whatever I do find To the arms that I love best," she said "To the arms that I love best" |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST Date: 20 Jul 20 - 02:27 PM I have a feeling this song was written by John Murphy, Carnanbane, Dungiven. Tomas O'Canainn mentioned in his memoirs that it was his uncle John Murphy's (1866 - 1929) song. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Steve Gardham Date: 21 Jul 20 - 11:15 AM 'it was his uncle John Murphy's (1866 - 1929) song.' In common parlance all that means is that he sang it or was known for singing it. (Unless the quote is more specific.) |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Steve Gardham Date: 21 Jul 20 - 11:22 AM To hark back to John's long list of versions in the Roud index, the earliest version I have 'Johnny is a Handsome Man' was printed by Armstrong of Liverpool 1820-24. There are at least 2 versions of this printing on the Bodleian site. Quite a few of Armstrong's printings came from Irishmen arriving in the city, and spread out from there across the rest of the UK to other printers, being developed on the way, pieces like Molly Bawn, Willie Leonard, Fanny Blair, Strands of Magilligan. The Irish origin is at least a possibility. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: Joe Offer Date: 16 May 22 - 03:13 PM There's quite an impressive entry in the Traditional Ballad Index: False Young Man, The (The Rose in the Garden, As I Walked Out)DESCRIPTION: The young man greets the girl after a long separation and asks her to sit down with him. She will not; "You've given your heart to another one...." She remembers his strange oaths, and says young men will prove true when fish fly like birds.AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1908 (collected by Olive Dame Campbell; in Sharp-EnglishFolkSongsFromSouthernAppalachians); +1876 (Christie, _Traditional Ballad Airs I_) KEYWORDS: love courting separation infidelity lie rejection lyric FOUND IN: Canada(Ont) Britain(England(Lond,South,West),Scotland) Ireland US(Ap,MA,SE,So) REFERENCES (20 citations): Brown/Belden/Hudson-FrankCBrownCollectionNCFolklore2 83, "As I Stepped Out Last Sunday Morning" (2 texts); 162, "The One Forsaken" (1 text, entirely of floating lyrics, but some of them, and the theme, are this song) Korson-PennsylvaniaSongsAndLegends, p. 29, "The Cottage Door" (1 text, 1 tune) OShaughnessy-YellowbellyBalladsPart2 51, "T Stands for Thomas" (1 text, 1 tune) Ord-BothySongsAndBallads, p. 174, "The Fause Young Man" (1 text) OLochlainn-MoreIrishStreetBallads 8, "The Verdant Braes of Skreen" (1 text, 1 tune) McBride-FlowerOfDunaffHillAndMoreTradSongsInnishowen 2, "As I Roved Out" (1 text, 1 tune) Bush-FSofCentralWestVirginiaVol5, pp. 68-69, "The False Young Man" (1 text, 1 tune, which starts with verses typical of "Fare You Well, My Own True Love (The Storms Are on the Ocean, The False True Lover, The True Lover's Farewell, Red Rosy Bush, Turtle Dove)" and ends with the "Rocky Mountain Top/White Oak Mountain" verses of "The False Young Man (The Rose in the Garden, As I Walked Out)" Sharp-EnglishFolkSongsFromSouthernAppalachians 94, "The False Young Man" (10 texts, 10 tunes) Scarborough-ASongCatcherInSouthernMountains, p. 41, "Come Along, My Own True Love" (1 text, with a first verse that might have floated in from "Young Hunting" or the like); pp. 270-272, "The False Young Man" (3 short texts plus an excerpt, with local titles "Come Along, My Own True Love," "Set You Down, My Own True Love," "As I Walked Out One May Morning"; 1 tune on p. 428 ) Fowke-TraditionalSingersAndSongsFromOntario 15, "The False Young Man" (1 text, 1 tune) Vikár/Panagapka-SongsNorthWoodsSungByOJAbbott 7, "The False Young Man" (1 text, 1 tune) Fowke/Johnston-FolkSongsOfCanada, pp. 166-168, "The False Young Man" (1 text, 1 tune) Wyman/Brockway-LonesomeSongs-KentuckyMountains-Vol2, p. 50, "As I Walked Out" (1 text, 1 tune) Owens-TexasFolkSongs-2ed, pp. 58-59, "As I Walked Out on a Fair May Morning" (1 text, 1 tune) Williams-Wiltshire-WSRO Wt 342, "T Stands for Thomas" (1 text) Karpeles-TheCrystalSpring 143, "T Stands for Thomas" (1 text, 1 tune) Kennedy-FolksongsOfBritainAndIreland 153, "The False Young Man" (1 text, 1 tune) Henry/Huntingdon/Herrmann-SamHenrysSongsOfThePeople H593, pp. 389-390, "My Love John" (1 text, 1 tune) Hayward-UlsterSongsAndBalladsOfTheTownAndCountry, pp. 41-42, "The Verdant Braes o' Skreen" (1 text) ADDITIONAL: W. Christie, editor, Traditional Ballad Airs (Edinburgh, 1876 (downloadable pdf by University of Edinburgh, 2007)), Vol I, pp. 198-199, "The Fause Young Man" (1 text, 1 tune) ST FJ166 (Partial) Roud #419 RECORDINGS: Frank & Francis McPeake, "The False Young Man" (on FSB01) Mary Murphy, "The False Young Man" (on FSBFTX15) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "False, False Hae Ye Been To Me, My Love" (theme) ALTERNATE TITLES: Johnny's The Lad I Love White Oak Mountain Rocky Mountain Side NOTES [108 words]: In America, this has become almost purely lyric (consider "White Oak Mountain": "I will never believe a young man any more Let his eyes be blue, black, or brown Save he were on the top of a high gallows tree A-swearing he wished to come down!") -- so much so that I originally classified the versions separately. But there are enough intermediate forms to prove identity. The song also mixes somewhat with "Foggy Mountain Top," itself a largely mixed and incoherent piece. Short lyric texts might perhaps go with either. - RBW Also see Planxty, "'P' Stands for Paddy, I Suppose" (on Planxty, "Cold Blow on the Rainy Night," Shanachie 79011 (1979)) - BS Last updated in version 6.0 File: FJ166 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2022 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: The Verdant Braes of Skreen From: GUEST,James Phillips Date: 22 May 22 - 11:24 AM My favorite versions of this song: Mick Hanly's live version with Andy Irvine at the 5th Irish Folk Festival Altan's version with some very nice slide guitar MacMurrough's version on their album "Merry and Fine" |
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