BS: Mudcat Chatter

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 11:35 AM

I always thought Jeri was the smart Mudcatter. I couldn't have posted my trolls without her links.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 09:56 PM

Yeah. From me, baby, from me. Whatever that means. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 09:34 PM

Devilmaster,

If you don't from Lepus Rex, YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Devilmaster
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 03:41 PM

Wow, Guest...... you could post the exact same msg to two different threads..... Did you use the right mouse button and copy it all by yourself?

I'll do it too and copy the two msgs replying from the other thread, cause I'm such a nice guy, and to make sure you didn't miss it, buddy.

Subject: RE: Why is this place so bitter? From: Blackcatter Date: 30-Jan-02 - 03:18 PM

Ummm...

If you check the thread, you'll see the post was posted by GUEST. As for the signature "Lepus Rex" I don't reckognize the name as a member, and the Latin term means "Hare King" which doesn't help much in the identification.

And to be honest, I don't even know what that thread means.

For all I know GUEST - it could have been you.

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Subject: RE: Why is this place so bitter? From: Giok Date: 30-Jan-02 - 03:30 PM

And you're really gullible enough to take that seriously? Is it because it mentions America? Perhaps if someone said it about Britain, or Portugal, or Greece you wouldn't be bothered. Do you perhaps lack the ability to laugh at yourself, or your country, or is it rather a case of "Me, guest right or wrong"? Therapy....Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 03:08 PM

Want to know what wrong with Mudcat? MEMBERS who post shit like this:

Ekh. What a load. Just when I thought I couldn't hate America any more... Seriously, someone from a good country: Adopt me.

----Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 09:14 AM

Just thought I would pop in and see what was up. I have been gone a bit. I see you folks still like playing with slugs who enjoy getting a rise out of you. Glad to see you are keeping yourselves busy. Oh.......yeah.......I also noticed that despite all these threads for the 4 or 5 years I have been around ............... well, ..........they haven't caused Max to change the place one bit. Get it?

To my friends, keep having fun. To the low life slugs, you still are so easy to figure out. Well, back to the struggle.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Pterry
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 09:14 PM

Wow, this must be a really special occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 09:04 PM

FWIW I just looked up "Guest" in my dictionary (Chambers):

"A visitor received and entertained gratuitously or for payment. A person visting one's home by invitation, to stay, for a meal etc; a person paying for accommodation in a hotel etc; a person honoured with hospitality by a government, organization etc; an animal inhabiting or breeding in another's nest (zool). Not a regular member of a company etc or not regularly appearing on a programme, but taking part on a special occasion".

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:26 PM

YAWWWWN

Subject: Spaw: Thanks for the suggestion
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:23 PM

Spaw,

Thanks for the suggestion about giving Max a blow job. Until your suggestion, I never even realized that Max was gay.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:16 PM

"make this a better music site".............I am a bit slow, I know...but Max, the ONLY high Muckety-Muck I know of here, has SAID he is not interested in trying make this just a music site!!!!!!!

If it IS his, and HE allows silly chatter, why are you various anonymous trolls and guests trying to get all the rest of us to march to your drummer? ...Sort of like herding cats.....(and, as aforesaid, teaching pigs to sing)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 07:43 PM

Spaw, I had a different vision, Chicago-style. Very simple, too. Anyone who wants to start a thread pays a thug (person with edit button) for protection. Break the knees (delete the post) of any interloping miscreants. Enterpreneurial moderators. No more volunteer, helpful, friendly JoeClones. Nuh uh.

Or you could see it kind of as "be my punk bitch" like in prison. Max could authorize (cookie) people to keep order that way, too. Cuz folkies is... BAADDDDD.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 07:19 PM

Yes Jerry, as usual Spaw said it all. Again. Just like he said it yesterday, today, and will say it tomorrow.

I don't know how many times Spaw needs to say "blow job" to make himself feel better. But until he finishes up with himself, the short answer to your "can we all get on with life" appears to be "apparently not."

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:46 PM

In summary, you said it, Spaw. Now, can we all get on with life?
Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:41 PM

Hey, we've already tried being rational, thoughtful, and reasonable.........Since that went nowhere with you, it's down to blow jobs.

That was a serious suggestion on getting Max to fix you up with the perfect site. He and Jeff can probably accomodate you and you'd have everything you wanted. Why not negotiate a deal with him? Now if it's too expensive and you can do it yourself for less or whatever, quit wasting your time pissing around here where things will never be to your liking and create what you want? Mudcat is never going to suit you and will never change to your way of.....I hesitate to use this word......."thinking."

Or is it that we are all correct in assuming that you are simply a common troll? If so, that's okay. We're all in a pretty good mood and will continue to play along if you want.....just say so and we can trade insults and all of that stuff for the next few hours/days/whatever.

Spaw

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:28 PM

And I can make it miraculously reappear on a different server! WOW! Aren't we impressed!

Now if we could just get the BS and the BSers to disappear along with this thread, Mudcat would be safe again for the discussion of music, rather than just the lowest common denominator of hurling insults and expletives you all stoop to the minute someone offers some legitimate criticism of Mudcat.

And isn't this entertaining Spaw? Insulting people you disagree with because you have no rational, thoughtful, reasonable response to them just shows how really witty and clever you all are--I'm terribly impressed. Awed. Totally humbled.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:21 PM

Classic trolling isn't it Jeri. Yeah, we all know not to play with the trolls, but sometimes it's just fun and some excellent posts have been made on this thread (and the other) by quite a few people and it's obvious that the 'Cat is pretty satisfactory to most and where it isn't we adjust. But our common troll here just plays the same game where the subject changes to suit his needs and prolong the discussion. We shouldn't play because it's a waste, but most of us have quit playing lately so this is a kick!

Now he say he's here to help Mudcat be a better music forum. But he also seems to think it's too late. I know some ways to help the troll to attain a perfect forum:

Send Max about 10 grand and he'll fix you up I'm sure. You can have a Nazi-moderated forum focusing only on your definitions and you can use the DT, keep out the riff-raff, and everything. Max would go for it I think. If not, at least offer Max a blow job which he'd probably appreciate to help relieve a lot of the stress he's got right now. I don't think that would enlist his aid, but what the hell........It would be a nice gesture on your part.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:17 PM

Hey lookie here - I can make this thread disappear:

Chatter thread filter

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:16 PM

Jeri, I'll wait and reserve judgment on the level of your intelligence until the fuzzy pink stuff in your fridge completes the IQ test.

Love you too.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:13 PM

Er...sure.

Jeri,

Smug, self-righteous, but a little bit smarter than the fuzzy pink stuff in my fridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:11 PM

Ah, there's a good boy now Paul. Back again already, and with your foot in your mouth over declaring your leaving the thread, too.

There is no trap that I'm setting. I'm imply speaking my mind here. The fact that you and the other regulars get obnoxious and hurl expletives at me because you don't like my opinion reflects on the lot of you, not me.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST,PaulM
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:05 PM

I don't like the way you all are going about it either.

Fuck off then

Sorry, I've probably fallen into the trap, but I had to say it.

Apologies

Paul

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 05:59 PM

Jeri, et al smugly and self-righteously ask:

"Why are you here?"

Answer: To help make Mudcat a better music forum for all who wish to benefit from it.

I trust some of you don't agree with the ways I'm going about it? That's fine. I don't like the way you all are going about it either.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 05:36 PM

Bill I was sort of expecting this to happen now that serious discussion seems to be winding down.

We have a guest who says they're serious about folk music and dislike BS, but they're in this BS thread...a lot. They're not serious about folk music, and they obviously don't hate it enough to think about the folks who do.

They're serious about trolling. I think we were having a reasonably polite and sensible discussion. No problem with starting another internet folk thing, obviously Mudcat isn't going to change to suit one guest. That was the problem, though - hardly anyone was getting pissed off. So guest introduces the "sacred cow" - the forum again, but this time with the DT added. A discussion of "my forum's better than yours" follows. Aha! NOW people are starting to get pissed off!

If I'm wrong about this being just another troll, I have a serious question. Guest, you seem to dislike the forum and the people, and it doesn't seem very likely any of that will change. Why are you here?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 05:17 PM

"We each are responsible for doing what WE can do"

that's exactly the point...which leads me to the sad conclusion that the best some can do is anonymous complaining and trolling...

durn, Susan...what an unlikely team we are!..(do you suppose we're BOTH part of the *inner clique* and don't even know it?)....I don't have my decoder ring, so I have only decyphered half the posts in this thread for messages ....funny, most of the 'guest' ones seem circular....or maybe it's my head spinning...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 05:00 PM

No, "it" does not assume that. That's a whole separate issue.

My contention is that we can choose to use these tools or not-- Max made it that way.

This applies equally to the thread-namer and the thread-reader, though, neither of whom can accurately expect to dictate what the other will do.

We each are responsible for doing what WE can do. Past that... it's disappointed wishes, and blame directed outward instead of responsibility exercised inward.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 03:55 PM

Susan,

It does of course assume that the nonsense threads always have a 'BS' prefix, which of course is far from true

JJ

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 03:48 PM

Bill, THIS BS FILTER LINK works better, because the colon keeps it from filtering out folk cluBS and GiBSon guitars.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 02:28 PM

.......I just opened this thread for the first time, and read all 112 messages..(maybe there are 3 more while I'm typing)....

Some people just don't get it.....THIS IS LIFE! It is EXACTLY like having a festival, or a party, or a church, or driving on the highway, or going to the beach, or doing almost anything that is mostly open to the general public: that is, you get all kinds of people behaving in all kinds of ways, like.....well....like people!

OF COURSE it will not please everyone all the time! Yes, there is off-topic banter sometimes, and often the same folks are at the center of it...just like at your office, or at meetings you have attended...(and just like at MOST of the 'public' singing sessions I have attended!!)

You get several choices if you don't like it...1)don't go there any more, 2)try to find one (or start one) that is rigidly controlled (perhaps by YOU)...3) yell and complain 4)shut up and join in as best you can. (yeah..there is 'sort of' a 5th choice of politely, but firmly, raising your hand and making suggestions ..i.e., complaining to the management..but this assumes the management is taking suggestions.)Ask yourself honestly which one you use.

I have been here since almost the beginning, and early on, I was well-known for complaining that "folk" music was being too broadly defined...I still believe that, but *shrug*...I can't win that one..(though I have influenced a few)...So I largely shut up about how I'd like it to be, and fit in "as best I can". The neat thing is....in this forum, I **CAN** not open a thread..or immediately close it if I don't like it...and...even in threads that are hi-jacked...I can do like I do with the comic strips in the paper..I IGNORE the ones that I choose..(Rex Morgan?, Mary Worth? Spiderman?...haven't read them in years!).....I'm so VERY sorry if you cant do the same. Perhaps options 1 & 2 are your best choices.

I do know one thing...despite all the BS and banter and silliness that goes on (which I even contribute to at times)...if I have a music question, it GETS answered! Sometimes it is answered by the likes of a Malcolm Douglas or Gene or Bruce Olson who "almost" never partake of BS threads...and sometimes it is answered by Catspaw or MMario or others who may be in 47 threads simultaneously...but almost NO music question gets ignored or missed!

The only way, my friends, to deal with a place that is big and complex, is to develop filters! If Max can help even more than he has...fine, but each person has to apply his/her own filter system too. (how many remember this link? which gives you the forum will all threads titled BS already filtered?)

If you cannot either ignore the parts you don't like, or endure them, then simply give up!

You all know that line about "not trying to teach a pig to sing, because it wastes your time, and annoys the pig"?....it applies to Mudcats 'as a group', too......

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST,joe clone
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:22 AM

A reminder of Joe's advice in the Newcomer's Guide:

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it many times more: the best way to deal with both flamers and trolls is to ignore them. Give them silence, and they'll go away. They feed on attention - don't give it to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:17 AM

Well, PaulM, it seems you were able to scroll down and discover the Bodlean Ballad site link on the English folk and traditional music on the Internet page I mentioned.

Congratulations.

I do serious work, which is why I never use Mudcat as a legitimate source. Its too amateur and riddled with mistakes to be taken seriously. Because it is big hardly recommends it as to quality and navigibility.

And if what I am saying has no point at all, why do you keep responding, hmmmmm?

Kiss, kiss--bye bye PaulM!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:14 AM

Poor GUEST. You don't realize that you are the Roman.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST,PaulM
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:08 AM

This will be my last message to this thread, I'm getting really bored with you.

Your "quote" seems to say that the DT is really very good. Lesley's Child site has about 200 lyrics max. I use her site, but personally don't like being forced to listen to MIDI files, so it gets a point down in my book.

That is of course subjective. None of the other sites you mention are a patch on mudcat.

Besides, if you want to do serious work, you'll use multiple sources.

What you are saying has no point at all

Paul

PS The fact that you didn't mention the Bodlean Ballad site betrays how little you actually know

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:00 AM

When in Rome SharonA, I do as the Romans do. Why, it helps me to fit right in!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:58 AM

Here is what the English folk and traditional music on the Internet page has to say about the Digital Tradition. Note that the page says it is the biggest, not the best, and that the collection is limited to Anglo-American folk song. DT is definitely the biggest site, but it is cumbersome and difficult to navigate, particularly when compared to Lesley Nelson's lyric site.

Songs The biggest online collection of Anglo-American folk song is the Digital Tradition database; the latest (Fall 1999) version contains 8024 entries, some with music There are fewer distinct songs as some variants have separate entries (eg there are five versions of Barbara Allen). It can be searched online, or downloaded for use offline in DOS interface, which as an infrequent user I find unintuitive to use. Jim Lawton has written a Windows 95/NT interface which is a easier to use (though without all the functionality of the DOS interface); this can be downloaded from his DonkeyWork site. In both cases, searching is possible on both words from the texts and on assigned keywords (which are available as a browsable list).

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:58 AM

GUEST: As for learning how to post to newsgroups and mailing lists, I'm willing to learn but not from someone who is less willing to teach me than to insult me! Aren't you the GUEST who was complaining about the "tone" on this Forum a few minutes ago? If so, please practice what you preach, and stop setting the "tone" you profess to detest.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:55 AM

Is that what it takes for you to get your jollies off? By all means, let us oblige....WHACK!

YOU are perpetual motion machine of flaming guests/members and you've gone round the bend.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:47 AM

Here they come:

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame69.html

Watch the butterfly fly away

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:41 AM

Oh yeah Spaw, nobody gives a damn what I say--they just keep posting responses because what I say doesn't matter. Mmmmhmmmm--sure.

I didn't say there was never any controversy in other folk music forums. But they blow over, people move on. Not the case here, where there is a perpetual motion machine of flaming guests/members who post BS we don't like/prayer threads/word of the day, and on and on and on like the Duracell bunny.

Anyone up for another round of kick the anon guest?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Kim C
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:40 AM

Ohferheavenssakes.

Mark Twain once said that everybody complains about the weather but nobody does anything about it.

Those of you who think there aren't enough musical discussions - start some. See how easy that is?

But now here's the other side of the coin. Whenever I have a question, I look in the SuperSearch first. Lots of times, the discussion has already been had, and I find what I'm looking for there, so I don't start a new thread on it. Discussions I might have started, didn't get started, because they'd already been started by someone else.

Everybody can't be happy all the time. That's just the yin/yang of the universe.

I have never been part of any group that did not have "core members" - the people who come to every meeting, participate in planning, events, etc. It's not that they're a "clique," it's just that they're the ones willing and able to put in the time and the effort. And those core members do rotate and change from time to time. It's not good or bad, it just Is.

Can we be done with this now?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST,PaulM
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:37 AM

GUEST

If you search the DT directly (or download a copy) I don't think that you'll find any BS.

Your arguements don't make any sense

Paul

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:35 AM

Obviously Steve.

Also as obviously, Guest hasn't been to some of the places listed. Are you aware at all of what's happened at Arlonet? And talk about unhelpful and nasty? See some of the responses to newbies at Bluegrass.

Everybody has problems and Guest, you have one too. I thought you were finished here and off to start a new forum. Oh well........Keep carping by all means. Nobody really gives a damn about what you're saying at this point, so have at it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:32 AM

PaulM, and of course, it takes about 10,000 times as long to wade through the BS to find the songs.

SharonA, it is true, one must be willing to learn how to post to newsgroups and mailing lists, but it isn't hard at all. Until then, you could stick with Mudcat--sort of the Internet Folk Music Forum for Dummies.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST,PaulM
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:29 AM

GUEST,

I know the majority of those sites.

I'm curious as to why you consider them better?

As Jon Freeman says, yes there are mistakes, but if you include stuff posted on the forum, there are probably 10000 more songs here than anywhere else

Paul

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: SharonA
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:25 AM

GUEST: I, for one, have no idea how to access the sites you listed. PaulM says nearly every one of them is an email listserv or a usenet newsgroup, and I as a person relatively new to the internet do not even know what that means, let alone what all I'd have to do to join those discussions.

However, to access the Mudcat Forum, all anyone has to do is know one website address, click on one menu item, and he's there. Once there, he can post to any Forum thread without registering any information beforehand. Sorry, but that's "easier".

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:21 AM

I'm haunting you Norton1. With glee.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:18 AM

Well, here are a few. But I suggest if it really matters to you, you get off your lazy arses and at the very least, use the Mudcat Links button at the top of the page.

Some are lyrics links pages, some direct links to lyrics. Take your pick.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmak/Music/Lyrics.html

http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/folkindx.htm

http://www.contemplator.com/folk.html

http://www.folklib.net/index/lyrics/

Bluegrass Song Book: http://www.nsknet.or.jp/~motoya/

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:17 AM

What continually baffles me is this inane bantering. If this place is so bad and uncouth why are you here? You didn't use those words but that is the implication. Why do you continue to post? What is the purpose?

Spaw - we've been trolled -

Guest from whatever/wherever - you are all the same to me - though you keep the forum intriguing at times the incessant sameness is just weird.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:16 AM

I think most people do acknowledge that the dt has its shortcommings. On the other hand, it is by far the most comprehensive collection of lyrics, many with MIDIs, that I'm aware of on the Internet - I can't think of another resource that comes close.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Chatter
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:11 AM

Yup, scroll up and see what I said as we all cross-posted.

~S~