BS: Great Misquotations

Subject: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 01:19 PM

Watching the "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" a few nights ago, (one of my favorite movies) I eagerly awaited the part where the baffled bandit says to Hunphrey Bogart *We don't need no steenking badges".

Now, I have seen this movie at least six times, but had still forgotten that what the Mexican actually says is "We don't have to show you no steenking badges".

There must be many other misquotations beng happily bandied about, either literary, cinematic, sporting or whatever. Anybody know any others?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 01:27 PM

Do re-edits count?

In which case my favorite is when Reagan turns to father Damian Carras in the TV edit of The Exorcist and says, "Your mother darns socks in hell!"

LOL!!!!!

.-)

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 01:48 PM

Probably one of the most popular quotes out there in the US culture is Vince Lombardi's "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." It is in fact a misquote. What Lombardi said was, "Winning isn't the only thing, but the desire to win is everything."

That's a considerable difference in meaning and it's a shame it is so often used to create an unrealistic attitude, especially in kids. The real quote ain't bad and puts forth a lot better message.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 01:56 PM

Spaw's got it. I was thinking about popular misconceptions of what was actually said, rather that instances of cinematic sporting or political figures mangling quotations. (Just in case anybody was confused ...)

"Play it again, Sam" is probably the most famous cinematic misquotation of all time .

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 01:57 PM

All that was said was, "Play it."

Right Murray?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ringer
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 02:00 PM

"How the mighty are fallen." is a recent Mudcat mis-quote (can't remember which thread). S/b How are the mighty fallen.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 02:06 PM

You know, Spaw, I can't remember whether Bogey said "Play it" or "Play it, Sam".

What he didn't say was "Play it again Sam"

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 02:21 PM

The complete line is:

If you played it for her you can play it for me. Play it Sam. Play, "As Time Goes By."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Deda
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:08 PM

Hamlet never said, "Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well." He said, "I knew him, Horatio", and went on to reminisce about riding on Yorick's shoulders, I think, when Hamlet was a tiny child.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Midchuck
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:16 PM

Not exactly a misquotation, more a modification...but when my daughter was running XC and skiing XC in high school, she had a sticker in her room that said:

It's not whether you win or lose - it's whether I win or lose!

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mark Clark
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:24 PM

Nikita Kruschev, pounding his shoe on the lecturn for dramatic emphasis, didn't say “We will bury you!” he said “We will bury you economically.” A very big difference.

Also, I'm told that in the context of Russian speech, “We will bury you” doesn't have the meaning “We will kill you,” it means “We will outlive you.”

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mark Clark
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:42 PM

Also, Marie Antoinette evidently did not say “Let them eat cake” when told that the people had no bread. She may have said something like: “Qu'ils mangent de la brioche” or “Laissez-les manger la brioche” or even “Donnez-alors leur la brioche” but she wasn't talking about cake. Brioche is a soft, light-textured bread made from eggs, butter, flour, and yeast and formed into a roll or a bun.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:52 PM

"We don't need no stinking badges" is the way the line is used in Blazing Saddles.

Cary Grant never said "Judy, Judy, Judy" (used in who knows what ages ago with a faux Grant accent).

Henry David Thoreau said "In wildness is the preservation of the world" (this is frequently misquoted as "wilderness").

Maggie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:59 PM

Music hath charms to soothe the savage beast, rather than William Congreve's
"Music hath charms to soothe the savage breast,
To soften rocks, or bend a knotted oak.

I guess a lot of people haven't seen too many savage breasts running about,...watch out for that nipple...it bites.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 04:34 PM

Dan Quayle's take on the NAACP slogan, "A mind is a terrible thing to waste." He said:

To lose one's mind is a terrible thing...but not to have a mind...
Classic Quayle.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 05:07 PM

here's Humphrey Bogart Play it

"Alas, poor Yorrick, I knew him, Horatio"

and I guess it will NEVER be settled as to exactly what Churchill said about dangling participles "...nonsense up with which..."..etc...

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 07:13 PM

I was once mis-quoted as saying "No thanks, I've had enough." when what I actualy said was "I'll have four pints of lager, two double whiskies and a packet of pork scratchings."

Does that count?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 07:21 PM

Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary my dear Watson"...

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:02 PM

The quote, "All that glitters is not gold." It's actually "All that GLISTERS is not gold."

That abused quote about music always sends me into orbit!

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Desdemona
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:14 PM

"We are such stuff as dreams are made of" when it's actually "We are such stuff as dreams are made ON" is one; the above-mentioned line from Hamlet is another pet peeve, also the rampantly willful misunderstanding of Juliet's query: "wherefore art thou Romeo?" to be a question about where he is, rather than about WHY he has to be called that!

Oh---also "bubble bubble, toil & trouble" for "double, double, toil & trouble" in Macbeth---I could (obviously) go on and on.....fer chrissakes, if people are gonna quote Shakespeare, they should at least take the trouble to quote him CORRECTLY!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:32 PM

Actually, I've forgotten the source of the original quotation, but it is
"The love of money is the root of all kinds [sorts?] of evil,"
NOT
"Money is the root of all evil."


One that's not a misquote but a common misattributionis the idea that "God helps those who help themselves" is from the Bible. Again, I forget where it's from, but it ain't in the Bible.

Also, Churchill did not use the phrase "blood, sweat, and tears." It was something like "blood, toil, sweat and tears. Which of you cats knows the exact quotation?

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:34 PM

Could it be that this is the Folk Process at work?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:37 PM

Genie, your first quitation is from the Bible.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:39 PM

Hee hee Dick. Now go sit with your face to the wall until you are ready to say you are sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:45 PM

1 Timothy 6:10

"For the love of money is the root of all evil ...."

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:48 PM

Dick, I don't think we even want to get started on the misquotations in the DigiTrad...*G*

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:51 PM

Murray- If you see a misquote in DigiTrad, please let me know what it is. You must realize, though, that most of DigiTrad is submitted by folks who send in (hopefully) what they sing---whether or not it's what they heard.

dick (whio tries not to paint the lily nor gild refined gold)

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 09:53 PM

I am really anxious to hear how some of these bible quotations come out in the newest edition of the Bible now underway and due out in 2005. It's a "gender neutral" version which ought to offer a lot of laughs!

Truthfully, a lot of fine morals and ethics are within the the Judeo-Christian ethic and some of them are going to be really watered down in some sort of gender neutral version.....Much like the way a lot of folk songs that once had at least some sort of story to tell have been reduced to pablum with no meaning at all. But I still look forward to getting a few chuckles from it anyway.....

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 10:35 PM

Dick, I am of course referring only to modern composed songs with attributable authors.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: mack/misophist
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 12:03 AM

As I recall,k Churchill said "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat, and tears.

Did you know he once had a price on his head?

Also, my copy of Bartlett's tells me that Marie Antoinette never said much quotable. The "let them eat cake" line was from some novel. Can't seem to remember what or who.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Kaleea
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 12:41 AM

Murray, you are correct, the misquotations are too numerous to count, and I doubt if we could come close to quoting all the misquotes. It is something I get a bit miffed about also. One of the most famous misquotations in TV & move history is "Beam me up, Scotty!" I also detest mispronounced words such as: nook-yoo-ler instead of nuclear; realtor mispronounced as: ril-uh-ter, and if you wish to win an easy $20 in a bar bet, dare someone to look up & find "perrogative" in any dictionary. It cannot be found because the word is: prerogative. And don't forget to send me my cut of all those winnings, catters!

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 01:38 AM

Brooklyn Dodger coach Leo Durocher did not say, "nice guys finish last" He said,"The nice guys are all over there. In seventh place". From my understanding, it was the media that spiced that quote up.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:11 AM

Not to mention, "Partic u ly" in stead of particuLARly.Or, reg u ly instead of regularly." And the most often abused word? HOPEFULLY. "Hopefully, it wont rain."

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:20 AM

"Presently" used to mean "at this time" rather than "in the near future," which is the proper meaning.

"Data" used as a singular. The singular form is "Datum."

"Fund" used as a verb.

"Network" used as a verb.

Et Cetera, Et Cetera, Et Cetera.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Lyndi-Loo
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:21 AM

"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" (often misquoted as "a woman's scorn"
Also "lay on Macduff" is ofetn quoted as "Lead on Macduff"

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:55 AM

the most recently abused word I hear these days: (mostly by female newsreaders on CNN..)

"tare-ists"...you know, those guys who hijack planes or set off bombs in crowds. arrrrgggghhhhh!!

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:45 AM

Pride goeth before a fall ... Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Y'all already got the LOVE OF money being the root of all evil... and there are quizzes every once in a while, I'll see if I can find one, where they put the correct quote in, but you have to know if it's Shakespeare or the Bible!

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:53 AM

(them 'tare-ists' look at their reflections in a 'mirr' (mere)?.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Desdemona at work
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:17 AM

While eating an "ornj"!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:21 AM

Ah 'The Treasure of Sirra Madra' a classic film of it's genre complete with filthy Mehicans. It does have some other worthy quotes apart from the 'badges' one. These must be said in a heavy Mehican accent '2000 dollars for your hair and still you smell like a peeg !!' and 'I know you ! You're ze man from ze hole !'. But now and again friends go into Indian restaurants and say 'bahjees, we don't want no stinking bahjees !!'

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 11:56 AM

No I don't want no steenkin bahajees **bg**

Mae West never said "Come up and see me sometime" well not in a film, she said "Come up and see me one time" & "Come up and see me big boy".
However, I saw an interview with her on the docks and she had just arrived(maybe in Southhampton). She said it to the reporter but perhaps it was expected of her by then. I don't think the reporter got his come-uppance!

as I segue neatly into yet more seafaring
"Water water everywhere, and all the boards did shrink. Water water everywhere, nor any drop to drink."

Clock this one. She said "Play it Sam, once more for old time's sake". She also said something before that about playing the song but my memory fades "As time goes by"................

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 12:00 PM

And.........
for your 10 bonus points (fingers on the buzzer)
who played it again ?
not Sam the character, the actual singer........
(lets see how long it takes - 5 minutes I reckon)

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 12:35 PM

Dooley Wilson

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 12:35 PM

I see I am going to have to tell you..........

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 12:36 PM

Oh no you're not ....

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 01:03 PM

What was his middle name? (no I don't know but I just wanted "une petit pleasantrie")

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:14 PM

Why do so many people say Exit, and replace the x with a g? EGGZIT? And Luxury, Luggsury? GeneOlogy? it's genealogy. Verbal agreement? all agreements are verbal. Oral is more proper. Underneath is redundant. and "All of a sudden" think about it, sounds silly when you examine it. What's wrong with a simple "Suddenly"?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,colwyn dane
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:29 PM

Another piece from 'Casanblanca':

H.B. "I came to Casablanca for the waters."
C.R. "But we're in the middle of the desert!"
H.B. "I was misinformed."

"You dirty rat" was attributed to J.Cagney but during a TV interview he denied having said it.

Drifting off thread here but still in the dream factory this time movie publicity .

"Don't pronounce it - see it!" for 'Ninotchka'

"The thousands who have read the book will know why WE WILL NOT SELL
ANY CHILDREN TICKETS to see this picture!" for 'Grapes of Wrath'

"£10,000 if you die of fright!" for 'Macabre'

CD.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:37 PM

Underneath is redundant ? Not always. Maybe when used as a preposition, not when used as an adverb.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: rea
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:54 PM

Well, poseur college girls seem to think that the INdigo Girls wrote a song called "Closer to _Find_" (ergh!)

and of course, the hamlet quote, which drives me nuts.

-rea

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:11 PM

Under and beneath are not the same thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 12:31 AM

Not exactly worthy of Bartlett's quotations, but figure skater Nancy Kerrigan's wail after being clubbed by Sean Eckhart's and Jeff Gilooley's buddy what's-his-face was "Why?? Why??"
The fact that the press repeatedly misquoted it as "Why me?"--even putting her picture on the cover of Newsweek or Time with that caption--was one example of what makes me distrust what I read in the papers or see on TV! When there's a widely disseminated videotape of the thing they're quoting and they still can't get it right...


Murray,
The New International Version of the Bible has I Timothy 6:10 as "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. [italics added]
I believe the King James differs only in using "...the root..." instead of "...a root... ."

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 12:55 AM

Can't really call it a 'quote' but I don't understand why people say 'tunafish'. Is there such a thing as 'tunabeef'? Or 'tunapork'? Isn't there a certain fish that is a tuna?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 02:33 AM

The wedding ceremony in the Book of Common Prayer contains the words "till death us do part" and not, as it is often misquoted, "till death do us part".

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 08:39 AM

Genie,

Isn't the Churchill quote "I can offer you nothing but blood, toil, tears and sweat..."

Lyndi-Loo

..."Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" (often misquoted as "a woman's scorn".... I seem to remember this quote as:

"Earth knows no like Love to Hatred turned,
Nor Hell no fury like a woman spurned."

I get annoyed by people quoting "East is East and West is Weest and never the twain shall meet" and using it to justify prejudice (by ignoring the rest of the verse)

OH, EAST is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, tho' they come from the ends of the earth!

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: John Gray
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 08:51 AM

Me, at the alter, "I do". ( twice damnit ! )

JG / FME

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Zipster
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 09:06 AM

Tunafish is so it's not confused with a tuna. Just like catfish

(You'll have to let me know if irony works in the forum)

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 09:14 AM

Zipster: Only if you've got an irony license. See Spaw for details. Also, you can be fined for being ironic in a no-irony zone.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Snuffy
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 09:36 AM

Where there's ice and there's snow
And the tunafishes blow?

WassaiL!

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mark Clark
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 10:27 AM

In his poem “To A Mouse” Robert Burns wrote:

But Mousie, thou art no thy lane, In proving foresight may be vain: The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men Gang aft agley, An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain, For promis'd joy !

Quotations of this famous line gang agley more aft than perhaps any other quotation. One almost never encounters this one quoted correctly.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 10:45 AM

Mr Red-- not completely familiar with the works of Mae West but at the end of My Little Chickadee, FIELDS says to her "come up and see me sometime" and WEST says "my little chickadee". . . close but, as Groucho would say, no cigar.
the Churchill quote, IIRC, is "I have NOTHING to OFFER but blood, toil, tears and sweat." It went into folklore in shortened form partly because there was a book of his collected speeches published w the "blood sweat and tears" title.
and the reward was 25 pounds, offered when he escaped from the Boers. (WSC claimed that a copy of the reward poster was what broke the ice between him and Michael Collins at the peace conference over partition. Went something like
Collins "You put a price on my head"
Churchill (gets poster)" Well, at least it was a good price. This is all they though I was worth at the time."

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Cairistiona
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:20 AM

A true story - a local community councillor was at a meeting in his local constituency. He apparently said.. "There have been certain allegations made against me and I hapen to know that these alligators are present here tonight"....

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:40 AM

well, last night, I SAW an old clip (in an ad, I think?)of Mae West saying "why don't you come up & see me sometime?" It didn't say what the clip was from...but there she was

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 12:28 PM

"Hell hath no fury like a woman's corns" & while we're at it "Great aches from many acorn grow"
I've seen JC deny he ever said YDR or YDRY but I've seen a film where he says "Why! You rat!", and then punched the hoodlum.
Pete Peterson, I did read the book of film quotes as well as a book on Mae West's film dialogue, I didn't pick up on WCF saying it but they presumably put in all sorts of "in" jokes.
Bill D yesssssssssss now how long have you had this afliction of total belief in ads? When did it start? Is there some toy that you lost in your youth and are still...................
Cairistiona did your councillor make a snap decision to say that?

OK folks I think as we have opened the Pandora's Boxes that are WCF and WSC I will up the bid and give you a Tommy Beacham one. He was asked if he had ever conducted Stockhousen and he replied "No, but I trod in some once" (I fully expect to be corrected on the precision but the joke stands, OK?)

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 10:34 PM

"...I took the initiative in creating the internet..." Al Gore.
That's what he actually said (sans context).
What is nearly always attributedto him is either a direct quote ("I invented the internet.") or an inaccurate, unwarranted, and misleading paraphrase (Al Gore, the man who claims to have invented the internet).

Note that one meaning of "create" is "to establish," as in an agency, a department, a program, etc. Government officials often "create" such things; no "invention" is implied, at least in the scientific or technological or artistic sense.

Also, to "take the initiative" re X is not the same thing as accomplishing X from start to finish.

This is one of those misqotes (misinterpretations) that probably results more from political motives and/or the desire of the media to entertain (hence, make money) than from the simple "folk process."

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 10:46 PM

Mark, I am not at all sure that "The Best laid schemes of mice and men gang aft agley" is frequently misquoted.

For sure, people frequently quote it partially, referring to "the best-laid schemes", or "the best-laid schemes of mice and men" but would you call these misquotations?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:10 PM

"It ain't over till the fat lady sings."

I don't remember who originally made the statement (not Yogi Berra), but the statement, I think, was
"It ain't over until the fat lady finishes singing."

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:56 PM

What is the origin of the quote
"The opera ain't over till the fat lady sings" ?

"Dan Cook, sports broadcaster and writer for the San Antonio (Texas) Express-News, on television newscast in April 1978, after the first basketball playoff game between the San Antonio Spurs and the Washington Bullers, to illustrate that while the Spurs had won once, the series was not over yet."

Murray (cut and pasted from a 'net article)

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mark Clark
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 12:37 AM

Murray, Here in the U.S. Burns' line is most often rendered something like: “The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray” or sometimes “go often astray.” The meaning is the same but somehow the poetry is missing. Even if they get gang aft agley right they're sure to substitute plans for schemes.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 01:32 AM

Murray, You may be right about the source of the original "fat lady" quote, but I'm pretty sure it was originally "...fat lady finishes singing."

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Micca
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 06:56 AM

If memory serves (and with Rampant CRS it seldom does) wasn't the "Its not over till the fat lady sings" one of the Late Great, Victor Borge lines from his monologue about Mozart?(from back in the 60s )
The mother of a friend, used to misquote wonderfully in the manner of Mrs Malaprop on of her more memorable lines being "The sea was as calm as a Mildew" and "a stitch in time shaves nine" ( never did understand that second one)

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 07:19 AM

Micca you may well be right, but a search doesn't bring up any confirmation of Borge as the originator. Love to hear from somebody who owns VB's recordings who could confirm one way or another.

(I thought it was one of Sam Goldwyn's before I searched ....)

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: jeffp
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 09:23 AM

I grew up with a 45 rpm version of A Mozart Opera backed with Phonetic Pronunciation and listened to it constantly. I am pretty sure that the first time I heard the fat lady line it was in a sports context and not from Victor Borge. I do, however, remember the famous aria sung by the soprano just before she died - the Die Aria.

jeffp

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 11:29 AM

Murray MacLeod- You raised an interesting point a while back on this thread. Are you saying that songs with attributable authors are immune from the folk process? I think that one of the neatest arguments against this is in Larry Kaplan's "Song for Gail (Huntington)": Larry wrote "Good times and bad times, they're worth all the telling..." which was immediately transposed to "..all worth he telling.." by about half the singers that did the song. Is one of these "right"?

How do you feel that DigiTrad should handle this kind of thing (especially when the Noble Editor isn't familiar with what was originally written and has to deal with what someone else submitted)? This isn't presented as an excuse for "inaccuracy" but as an honest question. Maybe I should open a new thread on this. Opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 04:45 PM

Dick, my opinion, FWIW, is that there is a clear difference between the folk process on one hand and faulty transmission of misheard lyrics (Mondegreens) on the other.

I would agree that the example you quote is an example of the folk process at work. On the other hand, the line in Dougie MacLean's song "Caledonia", given in the DT as
"Travelled far, with coat-tails flying, somewhere in the wind"
is an example of misheard lyrics. A Mondegreen.

And there are, regrettably, many such in the DT. Perhaps if there were a Permathread on correcting lyrics, enough volunteers would be able to extirpate these errors .... I would certainly be willing to help, but I don't know how.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 07:21 PM

I would second that idea, Murray-- the permathread for lyric (and/or author attribution) corrections. If such a thread is established, I would urge those of us who submit corrections to make it clear what the source of the correction is -- a particular piece of sheet music, a particular recording, etc. Otherwise, folks may end up 'correcting' an accurate lyric because of a different version of the song. (Cf. the thread on "Love Potion Number Nine. There are two different popular recordings of the song, with slightly different lyrics.)

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 07:51 PM

What a lovely thread. A pedant's delight! It would be a neat idea to take all these misquotations and put them into a single screenplay...gad! I'm surprised no one in Hollywood has thought to do this yet, especially Mel Brooks.

Now, here's one that is just as glorious as any of them...but it's not a misquotation. It's a real quotation.

"He's dead, Jim."

We have a whole course at the WSSBA based on that very statement, in fact...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 04:53 AM

Well, you may never have heard of Germany's most prominent songwriter Wolf Biermann and you may never have heard of his extremely popular antiwar song 'Soldat, Soldat' (Soldier, soldier) which still will be printed in German songbooks in 500 years, but the most often quoted line from this song is the boldest case of obstinate misquotation I know.

The line is 'Soldaten seh'n sich alle gleich' (all soldiers look alike) which is very often quoted as 'Soldaten sind sich alle gleich' (all soldiers are alike) which sound quite similar in German. A correct version of the song is at the other end of the link.

The irony is that Biermann in many interviews has insisted that for him it matters whether the line means 'are alike' or 'look alike'. He often has said explicitely that for him (who has survived Hitler's Germany as a young child but has lost his jewish father murdered in a concentration camp) there was for instance a big difference between Hitler's and the allied soldiers whom he greeted as liberators.

He has said and written that in many interviews, but when he became sixtyfive last year, the two newspaper articles I read about his birthday both quoted this line as the only line from his work and both had it wrong. So that's not just any random line from his work. If you ask a German which Biermann song she knows she'll name this song either first or second. If you ask which line from this song she recollects she'll more often than not quote that particular line and she'll misquote it.

Wolfgang

Link fixed. --JoeClone, 2-Feb-02.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 04:56 AM

A new try at the sentence with the link:

A correct version of the song is at the other end of the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 07:41 AM

I don't come here regularly so I've just seen the post about Kiplings incomplete quotation (East is East etc). An oppinionated columnist in my local paper called his column "The Sound And The Fury".Did he know the full passage (Shakespeare?) was "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing"

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 08:41 AM

Answering Genie's question about the origins of God helps those ...:
There is a German proverb (not from the Bible) Hilf dir selbst, so hilft dir Gott i.e. Help yourself, so God will help you.
Another well known misquotation in Germany is from one of Juvenal's odes: mens sana in corpore sano i.e. a sound mind in a sound body. It can often be found in gyms, regularly misunderstood as: If you train your body with sports, you will improve your mind.
In the original there is an utterly different meaning. Juvenal writes about praying and says: "Don't pray for a lot of nonsense, don't make to many words. If you pray, beg at first for a sound mind in a sound body."
You may compare this with Jesus' words: "If you pray ..." introducing the Lord's Prayer.
Special thanks to Wolfgang for correcting the misquotation of Biermann's line about the soldiers.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murph10566
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 09:21 AM

One regular misquote that gets to me:

'CHOMPING at the bit', when the term is "CHAMPING..."

and the annoying "FOYLAGE" when people want to view the beautiful fall FOLIAGE...

I have to admit that I've used 'hopefully' before - please to 'splain: where is the foul with this word ?

M

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 01:17 PM

Here's another famous misquotation: "The only good Indian is a dead Indian", supposedly uttered by General Sheridan of the US Army.

What actually happened was...Sheridan was at Fort Cobb, receiving some Comanches, who had been persuaded to surrender "unconditionally"...a concept of negotiation that the US Army has remained fond of to this day.

One Comanche leader, Tosawi, wanted to demonstrate good will on meeting the general and introduced himself, saying to Sheridan, "Tosawi, good Indian."

Sheridan eyed him coldly and said, "The only good Indians I ever saw were dead."

Lieutenant Charles Nordstrom was present, and noted the words, and passed them on. In a short time the phrase became shortened to the simpler one we have all heard. It sums up the US policy toward opening up the west in a nutshell.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Deda
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 04:06 PM

Here is the problem with "Hopefully"; it should mean "done in a hopeful way" but it is usually used to mean "it is to be hoped" or "I hope". This is because we have no such word as "hope-ably". So it is correct to say, "She winked at him hopefully", but not "Hopefully the rain will stop soon". However, the Language Experts who decide about these things have pretty much given up on this one; William Safire now accepts it as meaning "one hopes".

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mark Clark
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 06:06 PM

This may also be a misquotation but hopefully not. <g> I've often heard the story of the famous newspaper editor who, frustrated by the misuse of hopefully, had a sign placed above his door saying “Abandon hopefully all ye who enter here.”

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 07:23 PM

Mark, I hate to have to tell you this, but you have just pepetrated my absolute all-time favorite misquotation.

Yhe inscription above the door to Hades in Dante's "Inferno" read
"lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate" which translates as
"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"

Pedantically

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 09:29 PM

Well, a common mistranslation in song which sort of represents the folk process is in the Christmas carol, "Adeste, Fideles."
The phrase "laete triumphantes" should be translated--and originally WAS translated-- as "joyfully triumphant." (Check out some really old hymnals.) It evolved, of course, to "joyful and triumphant," and is nearly always printed that way today.
Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mark Clark
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 12:29 AM

Good call Murray. Of course the sign over the editor's office door was a play on the common misquotation you correctly cite. It doesn't work quite as well against the correct translation you provided.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Nerd
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 02:54 AM

A lot of the "mistakes" people are pointing out are really folk-processing of materials that have been around for centuries. Case in point, Kendall's 'It's actually "All that GLISTERS is not gold."'

Well, not actually. The first recorded instance of this proverb is in Latin, and the verb was "splendet" or "shines."

The first English version was:

Nis hit nower neh gold al that ter schineth... (it is not all gold that shines)

Chaucer used it with both "Glareth" and "shyneth," and Hills with "gloweth."

"Glisters" doesn't show up until the proverb has been around in English for 400 years. "Glitters" comes in 200 years later, and has been the standard way of speaking this proverb for more than 200 years at this point. Actually, "glitters" has been the standard form for longer than "glisters" was. The only reason some people get stuck on "glisters" is that Shakespeare was so influential, and he quoted the proverb as "glisters."

"All that glitters is not gold" is a perfectly good example of the folk process changing a proverb as the language around it changes. Since "glisters" is not a word people commonly use, it drops out of the proverb tradition. This same reasoning goes for things like chomping at the bit. Do people (or horses) champ on their food? Not anymore. We don't use the verb "to champ" in any other context, so why would we continue to use it in this phrase? Now that the language has changed, so does the idiomatic phrase. To get mad about it makes as much sense as getting mad that we don't say "schineth" anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: gnu
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 05:51 AM

How about mis-speaks (sp ?)....

The fellow meant to say, "Honey, please pass the salt.", but, what he actually said was, "You bitch. You've ruined my life." Talk about a Freudian slip.

The most famous was by JFK. During a speech in Berlin, wanting to show his solidarity with the citizens of Berlin, he meant to say in German, "I am a Berliner.", but, actually said, "I am a jelly doughnut."

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 08:53 AM

Another misquotation, here by Genie: laete is adverb and means joyfully indeed, but the original version is laeti, nom. pl. m. of the adjective and means joyful(s). So the criticized translation is correct. Laete triumphantes would be considered bad style by the old Romans.
gnu is right in noticing that Berliner means a sort of doughnut in certain regions of Germany, but also the inhabitants of the citiy of Berlin. I heard JFK's famous words, and I must say: nobody listening to his uplifting words had any thoughts about doughnuts at this moment. Only later on people asked: what will he say in Paris? "Ich bin ein Pariser"? The joke in German is that Pariser in German not only denotes the inhabitants of Paris, France, but also a french letter.
Just another note to the terms of bakery: Amerikaner = American also can denote another sort of doughnut in German. It's always a question of context to find the right meaning.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 09:48 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, Wilfried (or anyone fluent in German), but wouldn't it have been more proper to say, "Ich bin Berliner" (not "ein Berliner")?

I'm just glad he wasn't in Hamburg.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 10:53 AM

For those who don't read much archaic porn, allow me to clarify Wilfried's post above. "French Letter" is an old English term for a condom.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 02:20 PM

Ich bin ein Hamburger! Ich bin ein Limberger! Ich bin ein Braunschweiger!

The possibilities are endless...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: DonMeixner
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 03:03 PM

All this has been great fun. As I sit here with the flu trying to get well enough to play tonight this laughing is causing no end of grief.

But am I the only person in the forum that sees the humor in Kendall, a native son of Maine, lecturing on proper pronouncination?

It is too chuckle.

Don, who has never mispeled, misprounced or misquoted not nobody in my life, Meixner

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 04:55 PM

No Don, I also see the humor! I watch any nature show that comes on, and, two words drive me around the bend. ARTIC, AND ORANGUTANG. There are two "C,s" in Arctic (and Antarctic) And only ONE "G" in Orangutan. Dont people read, or listen anymore? Why do so many of us mis pronounce so many words? Stupid? lazy? I have two friends who are always using the wrong words, and I have to look away sometimes. For instance, one was telling me about a canal boat ride he took in England. He said they spent the night at a HOSTAGE, when he meant Hostel. The other said his girlfriend started having CONTRAPTIONS after the second time they had sex.This guy is in a bluegrass band, and, he does this so often, that the mandolin player's wife is keeping a journal. It is a scream!

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: DonMeixner
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 05:04 PM

WEll now Kendall, as you would know, to call a Hostel a Hostage and a Contraction a Contraption would be considered a malapropism, not a misprounciashun. But I get nuts to over some things. Usually stuff I say myself. Like "doesn't gots" , "Hev" instead of have. Gonna, gunna, and sometimes even gwine, instaed of going to.

But thats what makes it an American language. Ay Yep!

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mark Clark
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 05:17 PM

I hereby warsh my hands of the whole thing.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: DonMeixner
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 05:19 PM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 05:52 PM

You have to come to Orillia, Ontario, Canada...plunk yourself down at the nearest Tim Horton's doughnut shop (usually within a hundred feet or less of just about anywhere within city limits)...and LISTEN to the local teenage girls talk!

So he's, like, "Why didja do that?" And I'm, like, "Cos I felt like it!" And he's, like, "Well, it's not what I would have done..." And I'm, like, "Yeah, well, you're a goof, that's why." And he's, like, "You're the goof!" And I'm, like, "Yeah, well, at least I don't wear stinky sneakers like you do!" And he's, like, "My sneakers don't stink!" And I'm, like,....

And so on, and so on.

I'm, like, getting nauseous just thinking about it.

The words "says" and "said" appear to be unknown to people under 30 these days in Canada, and I fear it will only get worse, what with Britney Spears and similar airheads dominating the airwaves.

I'm, like, SO-O-O-O-O disgusted I could, like, you know....

Doh!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 05:56 PM

LOL, guys!! Tasnx fer a great discurtashun!!

A.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 07:02 PM

Know what I'm saying?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 08:52 PM

And don'tcha love it when characters on prime-time TV shows, having just been told something in plain language by someone, like...

"I can't unlock the car because my keys are in my wallet, and I left it on the front seat under your copy of Cosmo..."

Now...just to show how smart, cool, hip, and in command he or she is, the character aforementioned fixes the poor someone in question with an exasperated look and says:

"Lemme get this straight..." (Duh)

"You left the keys in your wallet...you left your wallet on the front seat...under my coopy of Cosmo...and the car is locked!"

Yeah. Poor person nods glumly or smiles ruefully. Laugh track yacks idiotically.

Isn't this brilliant dialogue? Did all those screenwriters go to the same school or does Hollywood somehow destroy the human brain through some hideous form of osmosis?

It's another great reason not to watch TV.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 08:59 PM

Hmmm....so you reckon the 'Cat is being trolled by SCREENWRITERS, LH? Makes sense...

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 09:02 PM

LOL! The horror! Lemme get this straight....

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 09:09 PM

*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 11:46 PM

Wilfried, Thanks for the reminder about the adverb/adjective distinction. (My Latin classes were decades ago.)
However, "Adeste Fideles" was not written by "the old Romans." I believe it was composed in the 12th C. (or maybe later). I don't know if all publications of the song used "laeti," (instead of "laete") but the English version used to be "joyfully triumphant." If the Latin says "laeti triumphantes," wouldn't that translate as "joyful triumphant," not "joyful and triumphant?" I don't know if Latin speakers would say it that way, without the "et," but in English wouldn't you say "joyfully triumphant" rather than "joyful triumphant?"
At any rate, I would consider the lyric drift more an example of the folk process than a misquote.

My favorite example of lyric drift is the saying/song "Let us smile 'be[neath] your umbrella," which evolved into "Let a smile be your umbrella." In part, it was probably originally a mondegreen, but by now, no one [in the US, anyway] uses "be'" as a contraction for "beneath," so the original line would probably not be understood by most folks. Still, the two lines have quite different meanings.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:25 AM

Genie,

surely Adeste fideles was not composed in old Roman times, but the times from Caesar an Cicero to Tacitus are quoted as the Golden ones, and language use of the Golden Aera is accepted as the Standard. Middle Latin as spoken in Medieval times has deteriorated, and better authors tried to write in the classical usage.
Here the adjective laeti must be used, because the fideles are full of joy and are triumphant. The conjunction et is, especially in poetry, often omitted.
In English you must insert "and" because of the metre. In German it is no problem, because we have 1 syllable more: "fröhlich triumphierend", so we dont need an "und".

Jim,

It is one of the mysteries of German usage. "Ich bin Berliner" = I'm living in Berlin, I'm born in Berlin" etc. But JFK's quote "Ich bin ein Berliner" has a slightly different meaning, considering the words spoken before: I'm one of all you freedom loving people of Berlin. With this German sentence he ended his speech using a climax, and the word "ein" gives it more stress. So his language use was considered appropriate by all German listeners. You could see tears flowing at some places.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:52 AM

Just realized nobody has mentioned the most famous misquotation of all time

When Neil Armstrong landed on the moon he is supposed to have said "A small step for man, a giant step for mankind". What he actually said of course, was "A small step for a man, a giant step for mankind". The missing "a" got lost in the transmission. Pity really, because the quotation as popularly remembered is a total oxymoron.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:21 PM

Hi Murray, did you ever read Arthur C. Clarke's Imperial Earth? set I belive in 2276 -- the protagonist, Duncan Makenzie, listens to a tape of Armstrong and muses "as always, he listened for the missing "a" before man and did not hear it. A whole book had been written about that slip, starting with Armstrong's slightly exasperated 'that's what I meant to say, and that's what I thought I said.'" don't have that book with me, but that's what I remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:41 PM

Murray, to be perfectly pedantic about it, your quote is incorrect also.

After the crew had returned to Houston, press representatives repeatedly asked what Armstrong had actually said. The Apollo news center at MSC issued the following release (copy in box 078-56, JSC History Office Files) on July 30, 1989: 'Armstrong said that his words when he first stepped on the moon were: "That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind" not "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" as originally transcribed.' "

Armstrong has always maintained the "a" was garbled and lost, but those who have listened and analyzed the tape repeatedly tend to believe he just forgot it. Geeziz, who wouldn't? I think Pete Conrad yelling "whooppee" was more the reaction most of us may have had. I can see where the missing "a" does make a difference, but it's pretty marginal to me. I think virtually everyone listeneing got the point that Neil took a small step off the LM but it represented a great advance in the history of civilization.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ferrara
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:01 PM

Kendall's post about "genealogy" reminded me of my favorite malapropism.

I was hired by IBM in 1966. They sent me to various departments for interviews. I thought I would go nuts or die smothered in ticky-tacky. Every single manager told me he wore "two hats" or "three hats," meaning his department had several functions. Every single manager then drew his department's org chart on his blackboard.

The guy who made my day wanted to show me the reasons why his department had its current structure. As he started to draw his org chart he said, "Let me tell you some of the GYNECOLOGY of my department.... ... Uh, uh, if that's the word I mean...."

I didn't crack a smile then, but I howled about it once I got home. I was living with my parents and I think my mom told that story to every one of her friends she was so tickled.

Shoot, I was waiting avidly to hear about the gynecology of his department, but all he did was draw another damned org chart.

Rita F

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Peg
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 07:50 PM

My students misuse words all the time. Damn kids don't read anymore so when they write an essay or script they do their best to get something right that they've only heard in speech and usually don't understand the full context of how it should be used...like they will say "cut and dry" when they mean "cut and dried." Or "suppose to" when they mean "supposed to." Don't get me started on their mis use of to, too and two, or there, their and they're or who's and whose, or your and you're...My favorite recently was the spelling "quincidentally" for "coincidentally."

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:29 PM

Not only kids, Peg. Count how many times you see "loose" used on the Forum here when the writer means "lose".

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 11:41 PM

I used to collect student bloopers from blue book exam answers and put them into composite paragraphs. A few that I recall at the moment (from pyshcology courses I taught) are:
"...boys are rough, while girls are gentile..."
"... our trip to Carl's Bad Cavern..."
"the Oedipus complex is a complex acquired from Sigmund Freud in early childhood..."
"[for my research project] I want to study how men treat women in pubic places"
"...the male hormone, testrogen..."
and then there were many students who wrote "reflexive' when [from context] it was pretty clear that they meant "reflective"


Murray MacLeod, Upon reflection, I realize that the "fat lady" quotation is considerably older than 1978, so the Dan Cook quotation would not have been the first use of it.
BTW, isn't there any authoritative website for quotations, like Bartlett.com?

Murray, Documentaries I've seen about the moon landing say that Neil Armstrong, in effect, was so excited he 'blew his lines." He was supposed to say "One small step for a man, one giant step for mankind". What he actually said was "One small step for man, one giant step for mankind".

Wilfried, Latin notwithstanding, I believe the transition in English from "joyfully triumphant" to "joyful and triumphant" is an example of either misheard lyrics or simple folk process, not someone 'correcting' the translation from the Latin.

One other misattribution is the idea that W. C. Fields said "Anyone who hates children and dogs can't be all bad." Wasn't this said about him by someone else?

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 10:58 PM

Without my copy of Taylor's "WC Fields, His Follies and Fortunes" here with me, I am unable to state with certainty, but IIRC it was his friend Gene Fowler who introduced him at a dinner with the words "Any man. . . "

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 11:13 PM

Genie, on reflection, I agree that the "fat lady sings" quotation is way older than 1978, and anyway, would a sports commentator have conjured this phrase out of thin air? I think not.

My initial thought was that it was Sam Goldwyn, (apparently not) but I still believe that it was somebody in the movie business who was trying to explain opera.

Somebody will come up with the answer I am sure. Victor Borge sounded promising but apparently it wasn't him either.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ringer
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 02:16 PM

They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

When Laurence Binyon actually wrote "They shall grow not old..."

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 03:27 PM

Oh dear..Bald Eagle, you are correct regarding that transposition, but you fall into the even more common trap of misquoting
"Nor the years contemn"
which is what Binyon actually wrote.

Contemn, (archaic possibly,) = to hold in contempt.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 08:07 PM

spaw
Geeeze Spaw I hate to outspaw you but as I read it, in a book written by Harlan Ellison, Science Fiction writer and pedant, but I believed him on this, was that "...one small step..." were not, as is so often misquoted, the first words spoken on the moon
Yon astronaut stood on the bottom step of the ladder and uttered almost as per script THEN stepped down onto the moon dust and said somewhat to the effect "It is some kind of dust and I can move it around with my foot". The video was tx'ed to & from California for on-line processing (even in those days) and the sound went direct so the lip sync would have been a bit off by several seconds at least.
If steps & ladders don't count then "Houston, the Eagle Has Landed" must qualify.
As a footnote - I guess being a PEDant in this context is thouroughly appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 09:13 PM

And the Selenites said..."There goes the neighborhood."

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: CamiSu
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 11:59 PM

A storyteller on another list wrote (more than once) that something illicited emotions in her, rather than elicited. I did not bother to correct her. I don't think she would have cared.

And for the record:

My country, right or wrong, which became the right-wing cry against those of us who agreed with the whole quote; My country, right or wrong. if it's right, keep it right; if it's wrong, make it right. Does any know the source?

CamiSu

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Souter
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 01:39 AM

Everyone gets this one wrong:
Water, water everywhere, and all the boards did shrink
Water, water everywhere, NOR ANY drop to drink.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 04:03 AM

CamiSu
From one whose memory has been subjected to the whims of time* and who has now had 3 or 4 glasses of vino, it seems that the "my country right or wrong" quotation was either from Decatur or ...no, I think it was from Decatur (whose first name I keep thinking was "Stephen," but of which I am sure I am wrong, if that makes any sense). Thanks for the clafification of the quote, BTW.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:47 AM

CamiSu, sorry, your "My Country" quote is way off :-)

Stephem Decatur, one of the most celebrated Americans of his time, spoke these words as a toast, and what he actually said was;
"Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong."

Since the words were spoken as a toast, it is inconceivable that Decatur would have said "My Country" rather than "Our Country".

Over the years this quotation has morphed into "My Country, right or wrong" and the process was probably accelerated by a play called "My country, right or wrong", based on the life of Stephen Decatur, which ran for twenty years or so, until quite recently.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:52 AM

Damn cookie, every time I switch off these days it goes AWOL ...

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:05 AM

Condemn/contemn: Are you sure, Murray? Click Here for example.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:28 AM

Bald Eagle, I am positive.

I knew this to be a oft-misquoted line when I was in school, and that wasn't yesterday. You will find it misquoted universally, but I was assured by my English teacher that Binyon originally wrote "contemn", and as I recall, she had some sort of connection to Binyon (knew somebody who knew somebody ....)

I believe the confusion started when the poem was first published in an English newspaper, (the London Times) and the misquotation just took off from there.Today it can be found misquoted on countless memorials world wide.

Actually, if you stop and consider the line, "condemn" just doesn't make a great deal of sense, compared to "contemn", does it ?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:43 AM

contemn/condemn

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:49 AM

Thanks, Wolfgang. Looks like an open question, then. Curiously, your link states it's not an issue except in ANZAC. Not yet, I think he means.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 11:05 AM

A slightly more scholarly link is to be found Here.
I agree that there appears to be no hard published evidence that Binyon wrote "contemn", but I am sticking to my guns. Just like the fallen.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:31 PM

what about the proof is in the pudding (the proof is not in the pudding) the real quote is the proof in the pudding is in the eating.

or (not a misquote but just bad English) AOL's YOUve Got Mail.

I keep waiting for the Toronto Maple Leafs to actually correct their name and become the Toronto Maple Leaves. petr

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Margo
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:57 PM

"Thou shalt not kill" is improperly translated. The real commandment is "Thou shalt not commit murder". I think God knows self defense is no sin...

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: CamiSu
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 11:36 PM

Murray, thanks for the correction. Could someone else have said my quote? (I must admit I prefer its sentiment. It signifies a willingness to change when we are wrong.)

CamiSu

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: heric
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 01:25 PM

On, Neil Armstrong: Here's an item for you preserved for thirty three years since stored in the memory banks of an eleven year old , and I will be amazed (and pleased) if you can find proof of it to back me up:

A television journalist, pre-launch, asked Neil Armstrong what would be his first utterance from the moon. He responded (and yes I quote exactly, from memory): "I don't know. Whatever it is, it will be spontaneous."

So I really like Mr. Red's post just above, for giving me, after all these decades, some leeway to believe that he wasn't lying. (As soon as that "small step" line came over the airwaves, I knew (a) he had lied to this little boy, and (b) he had blown his lines. So, in that sense, maybe he didn't know in advance what his words would be, but it hardly qualifies as "spontaneous.")

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Big John
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 02:02 PM

MOM: I took the kids to see the exorcist. DAD: They're a bit young for that movie. MOM : Who said anything about the movies?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 19 Sep 02 - 06:44 AM

Now, after all that, a question ( two, actually) why do we care, and, what the hell makes the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Sep 02 - 07:13 AM

Kendall: "We scare because we care"! (Monsters Inc.)

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 19 Sep 02 - 09:18 PM

This isn't a misquote but recently while driving along the superslab known as I-80, through Nebraska, I pondered about the expression "cowpoke" typically used interchangeably with "cowboy". I wondered what was the difference and what their origins were. Then, in a blinding flash, I remembered the Movie "Lonesome Dove" and the conversation Augustus McCray had with the charming Lorena Woods about having a "poke" which was slang during those days, for the 'carnal act'. Now I wonders if calling a cowboy a cowpoke might not be some sort of reference to bestiality? (My cousin studied animal husbandry at the University of Wisconsin until they caught him at it!) Perhaps it was originally an insult?

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 02 - 04:37 AM

"Poke": also a sealed sack, the contents of which cannot be seen. Hence to buy something without first viewing it is to "buy a pig in a poke"

Nigel