BBC Treasure Hunt

Subject: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 07:19 PM

As British TV viewers may be aware, much has been made of the return to the BBC of various 'lost' programmes such as 'The Likely Lads' 'Dad's Army' 'All Gas and Gaiters' and radio episodes of 'Hancock's Half Hour' What many people probably don't realise is that The BBC has junked many hours of Folk programmes such as 'Folk on One' 'Folk on Friday' and Folk on Two' prior to 1984. If you have any programmes like the above that you've taped off air, especially if the programme contains a live concert then you may be able help to restore the archive of its lost 'Treasure' Further details are on the website of Folk North West:

www.folknorthwest.co.uk

Have a trawl through your tapes and see what you've got. If there is enough interest we can take it from there.

Good hunting

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 03:03 AM

Blue clicky

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: bill\sables
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 06:02 AM

I probably have a few spool to spool tapes of "Folk on Friday" and BBC Radio Durham's folk programme from the 60's and early 70's somewhere in the loft. I must look them up and let you know.
Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 08:38 AM

I thought this thread was going to be about Anneka Rice ! Is she still bouncing around ?

Murray

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 12:13 PM

I might be able to locate a (BBC copy, 15in/sec, reel-reel) tape of "Folkweave" recorded about 1974 at Catford Folk Club. The main guests were Graham & Eileen Pratt, the presenter was Tony Capstick, and amongst the odd spots your's truly singing "Tam Lin" with Wendy Simon (of Walton Folk Festival fame).

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 07:53 PM

Not sure what Anneka Rice is up to these days but these spools of tape hidden in various places sound promising!

Anybody else out there got anything that may be of interest?

Thanks for the response so far.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 07:18 AM

I have a number of Folkweave programs somewhere, but only on ancient cassettes. I also have ?Folk on 2 at Blackmore in Essex, but that is a singers club, no guests. I will have a look when I get home at the weekend.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:05 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,swirlygirl
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:48 AM

You're just obsessed with women aren't you Murray?

:)

xxx

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 11:51 AM

I don't think it matters what format anything is on. 15ips broadcast quality reel to reel would be ideal but I imagine most stuff is on cassette that anybody's recorded. Somebody's got some stuff that they've recorded on cassette by pointing a microphone at the radio from the days when cheap recording hardwear was in it's infancy. It all helps the cause. Singers nights can be just as interesting as guest nights with the diversity of styles that they generate. Remember I don't want a copy, just the details of what you have then I can get back to the BBC to see if they would be interested in.

Keep looking.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: fat B****rd
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 02:39 PM

Speaking of old"folk" programmes, does anybody (UK) recall a couple of BBc 2 programmes called TV Ballads ??

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:51 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 07:22 AM

I have so far unearthed Folkweave editions, introduced by Toni Arthur, featuring Muggins Fancy, Tom Tiddlers (?Ground), the Chieftains and Vin Garbutt.

I still have more cassettes to check though, both Folkweave and Folk on 2.

Has anyone looked overseas? I think I remember hearing these programs being broadcast in Dubai, when I was there.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 07:32 AM

i 've got loads of folkweave recordings(well, only the ones i'm on) on cassette, also various BBC tapes of the same material. i always thought folkweave was a bloody awful programme at the time, but looking back i do recall it put out a lot of traditional english folksongs: which is not the easiest stuff to find on the bbc nowadays.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 07:18 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 11:48 AM

Folkweave was produced by a BBC man very keen on traditional music, one Peter Pilbeam, long retired. Does anyone know if he is still alive?. I have fond memories of Folkweave because I wrote it's signature tune. Wish I had a few of those on tape. Burl

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 06:01 PM

I've been back onto the BBC treasure hunt department to see what steps to take next in order to get tapes back to them. Watch this space!

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 06:08 PM

Peter Pilbeam was a very very nice man and a pal but I am 99% certain he died a few years back. If anyone knows different I would be delighted. His main claim to fame was turning down the Beatles for a radio spot in their very early days. He hought they were crap.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: johnross
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 10:08 PM

Peter Pilbeam told me in 1977 that he had several hundred hours of Folkweave programmes on tape. I don't know whether they were his personal copies or in some BBC centre, but they did exist. If I remember correctly, FW was produced someplace outside of London, so they probably weren't lost in some mad cleanup at Broadcasting House.

Do any of the 1950's "Blues and Ballads" (or was it "Ballads and Blues"?) programmes still exist?

I have a copy of "Bold Nelson's Praise", the program that Bert Lloyd put together for the anniversary of Trafalgar. On BBC Transcription Service discs.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,vectis at work
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 09:54 AM

If the Catford programme is pre May 1974 I might even be on it...
Spooky, or what?????????

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Watson
Date: 14 Mar 02 - 09:10 AM

I have a box full of old cassettes. I have no idea exactly who or what is on most them, but there are quite a few of Folk on 2 - Jim Lloyd vintage.
The last one I found had Kathryn Tickell, Bob Fox and Stu Luckley and an Irish band that I have no recollection of called Collaboration.
If they are of any use to you Mark, you're welcome to have them.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 12:49 PM

Mr Watson - please get in touch with me to discuss this further. My email address is [e-mail]. Look forward to hearing from you

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Watson
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 01:03 PM

email winging its way to you now Mark.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 07 Apr 02 - 05:46 AM

Just to let people know - I've tried getting back in touch with the Treasure Hunt people at the BBC to see what they want to do with the tapes that you've unearthed but I've had no reply yet. I'll have another go at them through the [e-mail] route

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 03:07 AM

OK folks, I've had a reply from BBC Info. The Treasure hunt has officially finished but tapes can still be returned to them. The gist of the reply is below:

...However, although the campaign has closed this does not mean the search has finished. BBC Archives would still be interested in hearing from members of the public who have BBC recordings of interest to offer. You can contact them at the following address:

BBC Archive Treasure Hunt PO Box 3087 London W12 6GL

If you intend to return anything, please write first and tell them what you've got before you send any tapes to them. If you get any positive response from them please let us know on this forum.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Lanfranc
Date: 22 Apr 02 - 06:29 PM

Off to eBay in search of a reel to reel deck to replay umpteen miles of tapes from the 60s and 70s, including some "Country meets/swamps Folk" sessions, if they are still playable, that is.

What is the archive life of recording tape?

Alan

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From:
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 06:09 AM

I am a member of a radio preservation society and am very interested to know if people, as well as Folk material, have any plays/comedy/etc. from the pre. 1985 period? There are some items we are particularly after.

If you recorded from radio onto cassette, reel or disc prior to 1985, I'd love to hear from you! We are non-profit making, but can 'whip round' to pay for reels bought etc. Copies can be made on CD too.

Many thanks, Richard. ([e-mail])

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt- calling johnross
From:
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 06:13 AM

Hi- I'd be interested in that Trafalgar programme. Maybe you can E-Mail me and we can go from there? Much apprec. Thanks, Richard.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 02:44 PM

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 10:37 PM

Where was the Catford folk club held?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From:
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 04:35 AM

RE: WHERE WAS THE CATFORD ~FOLK CLUB HELD? A CATFORD FOLK CLUB WAS STARTED BY A GROUP OF US IN THE ( I THINK) MID-60S) DAVE AND TONI ARTHUR, MARTIN HAZEL, THE COVEN BAND, EDDIE DUNMORE, AND DAVE??? (WHOSE SURNAME ESCAPES ME AT THIS MOMENT), IT WAS CALLED SOMETHING LIKE PHOENIX AWAKES ( I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE CALLED IT), AND IT WAS HELD AT THE RISING SUN PUBLIC HOUSE IN THE HIGH STREET, AT CATFORD. EDDIE DUNMORE, WHO WENT ON TO EDIT THE MORRIS RING MAGAZINE, WAS A PRINTER, AND PRODUCED GREAT A5 FLYERS, AND PRINTED BROADSIDES OF POPULAR CHORUS SONGS SUNG AT THE CLUB. EVENTUALLY TONI AND HAD TO PULL OUT OF THE CLUB DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF GIGS WE WERE THEN DOING AROUND THE COUNTRY, BUT THE CLUB WENT ON FROM STRENGTH TO STRENGTH FOR SEVERAL YEARS. There was another Catford folk club run by Tony Dean Slim Grey etc..but I think that was a bit later, although it was so long ago I could be mistaken.
DAVE ARTHUR website: davearthur.net

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 04:55 AM

In about 1970, C# House library sought permission from Jim Lloyd and producer Frances Line to keep recordings of Folk on Friday in the sound archive but were refused. Don't know if they actually obeyed...

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 05:20 AM

Hi Dave Arthur

Would the other Dave have been Dave Cooper, who ran the Catford Club at the Rising Sun when I went a few times, it was after your and Toni's involvement certainly.

Cheers

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 02:27 PM

I've only just picked up this discussion. I have a number of tapes and cassettes which I'm currently transferring to minidisc. Most of them are parts of folk music programmes covering featured topics. I have a number of such. They include three series from Folkweave by Sam Richards and one I did myself or four programmes called "The Price of Progress".
Just before Folkweave was taken off air I'd done a series of eight programmes with Peter Pilbeam called "Heroes All". I've no copies of this stuff so any help on if it exists would be welcome.

More to the point is anyone interested in these pogrammes and features I have?. I'm quite happy to copy them or hand over the originals to a bona-fide archive. Apart from the Folkweave recording I've quite a lot of other folk music related material I recorded during the later 1960s and early 1970s.

Ian M Parr

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Megan L
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 04:26 PM

Alan if you have no luck with ebay try your local library, if it has an archive. I spent a year in our local archive cataloging our local BBC programmes (those we could find after spending several hours rummaging in cupboards, attics etc) we had a revox, wouldnt think our librabry archive was unique.

Subject: Catford Folk Club
From: GUEST,Dave Arthur
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 07:31 PM

Hi Kevin - Yes, of course, it was Dave Cooper, he was one of the orginal founding members and hung in long after Toni and I left the club. Dave's surname eluded me for the moment when I wrote the original note re Catford Folk Club. Sorry Dave!!
Best wishes, Dave Arthur
davearthur.net

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,John Pilbeam
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:54 PM

Not sure if this is still running, but Peter Pilbeam is my dad and he still lives in Manchester, where Folkweave was produced. I also thought Folkweave was crap (but then again, at the time I thought Folk was crap, full stop), apart from those programmes with recordings made whilst I was holding the microphone during school holidays (Wassailing in Bodmin is a particular favourite memory - aged about 10 - standing in a circle with about 10 pissed blokes wearing top hats and tails, all peeing into the centre spot of Bodmin [rugby] pitch around 2.00am The reference to the Beatles is inaccurate - dad auditioned them in 1962 and thought they were great - he gave them their first 6 broadcasts on national radio. The faux pas was that the audition sheet gave vocalist John Lennon the thumbs up, but Paul McCartney the thumbs down. Oh well...

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,JOHN of ELSIE`S BAND
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 12:07 PM

Dear Dave Arthur,
                You are spot on. Dave Watts, Robin "Slim" Grey, myself and Mike and John Hutchison were the people who ran the "Railway Tavern" at Catford. We have pleasant memories of your bookings with Toni and doing clubbs with you in the SE.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 12:43 PM

Both the Railway Tavern and Rising Sun are still standing....albeit with a few changes at both.
I think the Railway is now The Copperfield, but it still shakes to the 4.20 to Hayes.
And The Rising Sun has had a few changes since a particularly nasty incident in the alley next to it a few years back, it is now West Indian run and does excellent grub.
Aaaaah Catford! Must pay it a visit soon, if only to gaze lovingly at the black and white cat.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 03:25 AM

Hi John - Thanks for the contribution and good to know your dad's still with us. Would you be able to tell us if he has copies of any of his programmes? I know that Stan Ambrose who produces Folkscene on BBC Merseyside along with Geoff Speed has loads of his old programmes on reel to reel including a programme where he talks to Brian Peters about Harry Boardman. He kindly lent this tape to myself and Chris Pollington to make a copy of it for our archive of material featuring Harry. Talking of Chris, I was round at his house last night where he's recovering from a broken back after falling off a ladder and we were listening to some of his old cassette recordings he made of "Fine Folk" from the early days of BBC Radio Blackburn (now Radio Lancashire) where he was featured with his group Knight's Anthem (I think) - pre Strawhead days - about 1972. The programmes was presented by John Mills (not THE John Mills) who sounded awfully posh for a programme broadcast in Lancashire - but then they all did in those days! He also had some other recordings of a programme called Music in Schools which featured his school Jazz band and considering the age of the pupils was about 13, the standard of playing was excellent. The past is out there - it just needs looking for!
Thanks to an appeal I made on another thread regarding the TV programme "Ballad of the Northwest", I now have about ten audio recordings of the programme which is otherwise missing. Whilst they aren't the best quality considering they were done by pointing a microphone at the TV speaker, they are at least listenable to and very interesting they are as well.


Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 11:23 AM

Just unearthed a cassette copy of Folk Song Cellar (Robin Hall & Jimmy McGregor) featuring The Young Tradition, Isla Cameron (with Martin Carthy on Guitar) and Roy & Val Bailey.

Is that likely to be of interest? There are some songs I have never heard elsewhere (e.g. Yellow Hose)

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Guido
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 10:08 AM

I have a set of 13LP's from the Folk Song Cellar on BBC Transcription Disc. Anyone has an idea about the value? They are all in Mint condition and with the original papers.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Patrick Gallacher
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:05 AM

I have a Question:

Are there any Lost Episodes of Steptoe and Son or do they all exist?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:48 AM

Yes they do in one form or another.

The early series (1962-65) were recorded on 405 line videotape for transmission and transferred to 16mm black and white film for overseas sales purposes (it's easier to sell film abroad rather than video as different companies have different standards but film can be put through a telecine machine which converts the signals to the standard required. The original video tapes were wiped to use again but the film recordings survive.

The later series (1970-74) were made and recorded on 625 line colour videotape. These were not transferred to film as far as I know but the tapes of the earlier (70-71) series were wiped. It was later discovered that Galton and Simpson had made off air recordings on a very early domestic reel to reel video recorder and these were discovered in Ray Galton's garage in the 1990s. The rest of the programmes survived on the original 2" video tapes.

Many of the programmes were released on VHS in the late 80s-90s and the first series from 1962 has been released on DVD although disappointingly there has been no attempt at restoring the pictures using modern technology. There is a process available that restores the more "live" look of video as opposed to the more jerky appearance of film which has been used on restoration of early Dr Who programmes as they are released on DVD and the first series and what's left of the second series of Dad's Army to great effect.

More info about TV archives HERE

and Steptoe and Son HERE

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,John Pierson
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 09:36 PM

Greetings from across the pond. I dont know if anyone is still searching this site, but I was wondering if anyone can steer me in the right direction. I am looking at trying to put together a listing of BBC In Concert and the Americcan equivilent BBC Rock Hour. Is there anywhere I can look to get a chronilogical order by airdate? I collect live radio concerts, and the BBC programs are the hardest to come by, especially pre-1980. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to e-mail me at [e-mail].

Thank you for any help.

John Pierson

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Folkiefrank
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 10:42 PM

Guido, where the heck did you get those from? I heard those programmes in Singapore in '69-'71 and they were Fab to use the expression of the era. The sad bit about it was that the BFBS people were told to destroy the LPs as soon as they had been broadcast. It seems there were some who realised their worth. As I remember, the LPs were one sided, and of one hour in length. Is this the case with yours?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,folkiefrank
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 09:11 PM

OK Guido, how much do you think they're worth...let the bidding begin!I'll put the first one up....£50.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,folkiefrank
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 09:54 PM

Come on Guido, are you interested or not?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 08:57 AM

Guido posted back in November and got no response at all on this thread for over 2 weeks, and no reply to his question for 4 months. Perhaps he gave up and won't come back.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,folkiefrank
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 09:42 AM

Guess you're right Snuffy...hadn't realised the time factor! Doh!

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 03:58 PM

I have some editions Folk Song Cellar on cassette, including one from c1966 with Young Tradition. No response yet from anyone on this. It includes Yellow hose, which I don't think YT ever recorded. (rightly, in my opinion!)

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 04:21 PM

I may be able to find an actual BBC copy of a Folk on Two that was done from the Assembly Rooms at Surbiton abot 30 years ago. I know Derek Serjeant was given a copy by [I think] the BBC. I shall make enquiries.
Giok.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Nicky Barut
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:36 AM

I have an original old LP of Hancock's Half Hour (original covers) do you know if this would be worth anything?

My email address is [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris Brady
Date: 24 May 07 - 06:47 AM

Is someone going to issue a MP3 CD of Folkweave and Folk on 2 anytime? I have loads of cassettes of these, recorded for me when I was teaching in NZ and was homesick for a bit of folk culture. The NZBC also had discs of folk music from the BBC Transcription Sewrvice - but I bet those all got thrown away. There is a good org. that might be interested at: http://www.otrcat.com/ - that is www DOT otrcat DOT com

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris Brady
Date: 05 Oct 07 - 07:53 AM

I have numerous Folkweave and Folk on 2 cassettes recorded for me by my mother when I emigrated into that folk and cultural vaccuum called rural New Zealand. I wonder if anyone is interested in doing anything with them? The http://www.otrcat.com/ group is amazing and I have just bought a load of CDs from them including Lines from My Grandfather's Forehead which no-one has re-issued yet. Does anyone know if http://www.otrcat.com/ is interested in re-issuing Folkweave or Folk on 2. Incidentally there is one excerp of Folk on 2 at my website at http://www.chrisjbrady.com when Folk on 2 visited the Reading Cloggies Festival in 1982. It includes an obit. for Bert Lloyd. Chris Brady

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Oct 07 - 08:12 AM

I have one Folk on Two tape of the one that I appeared briefly on from the Surbiton Assembly Rooms many years ago. In those days I used to listen to it assiduously. I certainly thought Jim Lloyd a better presenter then the present incumbent.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folk Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris J Brady
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 07:23 PM

I am busy digitising Folkweave and Folk on 2 from the 1970s. it would be good if as many recordings of BBC folk progs could be gathered together. If anyone has cassettes or reel 2 reel recordings that I can loan please let me know. I have the facilities to digitise these. Alternatively perhaps copies could be dontaed to a central archive for these? I belive that all the reel 2 reel masters of Folkweave may have survived. It would be good to include those too. Many thanks - Chris Brady

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Folk Song Cellar
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 09:32 AM

What chance a copy please? Chris B.

I have some editions Folk Song Cellar on cassette, including one from c1966 with Young Tradition. No response yet from anyone on this. It includes Yellow hose, which I don't think YT ever recorded. (rightly, in my opinion!)

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 08:59 PM

Seems like there is a lot of rare archival material out there. But it is in scattered and private ownership. And folks like Guido (?)have announced that they have e.g. 13 acetate trans. disks of Folk Song Cellar - and then have disappeared from the forum. So his/her material is now lost forever. With regards to Folkweave I have had email correspondance with someone - a banjo player from Manchester - who claimed that he had 'found' a skip full of junked masters of Folkweave behind the BBC Manchester Studios. Apparently he took all of them them home and eventually digitised them to CD. But then he too 'disappeared' and emails of enquiry went unanswered. I also know of a collection of Folk Song Cellar recordings in NZ. But again these are in a private collection and said owner maybe thinks that the BBC is going to pay big bucks to get them back. No chance. So what's the point of owning all of this stuff if it is still in private hands. It needs putting back into the public domain. I emailed the NWFolk Archive about my own recordings of Folkweave. But no-one replied. So my own tapes will get lost. And my relatives have no interest whatsoever in such material if my clogs are popped anytime soon. I understand that the British Library has a collection of folk programme recordings - but again these are out of reach of most, may be only listened to, but certainly can never be copied or released into the pubic domain aka uploaded to the web. BTW emails to the Treasure Hunt also get ignored. I say again - what's the point?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 07:40 AM

Do we need some sort of YouTube site where all of these archival recordings could be placed?
Problem would be who has the ownership of copyright and would they let them be placed there.
I have about 530 Folk on Twos from 1982 up to 2000 with omissions, usualy with a gap in the middle of each one when turning the cassette over!

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 07:57 AM

Twizzle, is there any existing footage of this children's programme anywhere? I've seen a few 'Torchy' episodes but I think it was only a few that were salvaged and shown on the 'Bravo' channel. There were a few episodes of Twizzle that I found quite frightening at the time and I would be interested to see what it was that scared me about it.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM

Hi Chris

The Folk North West site is undergoing a revamp since a new webmaster has taken over from me. I'll check the emails and get back to you. I'll also check with the BBC what the current state of the Treasure Hunt is although I imagine it has lost impetus of late and may not be active.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: johnadams
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:25 AM

Like Chris B, I am busy dealing with old tape collections and have a few awaiting my attention, including a number of folk club collections on both cassette and quarter inch. To that end I've spent a chunk of money setting up a transfer bay which will transfer from all domestic quarter inch formats and all cassette dolby types to digital.

Two years ago, the Traditional Song Forum proposed a project, called 'Voices In The Attic' to which my name is notionally attached but I've yet to put any serious effort into tracking down more recordings, thus increasing the size of the task which is already pending. Some project partners would be welcome.

It would be nice if all the old recordings could be made available, BBC folk programmes, club recordings, field recordings, etc. but the task would be enormous and would bring lots of thorny copyright issues with it. The BBC Archives are very helpful if approached in the right way but there are other problems like performers not wanting old, possibly sub-standard club performances being in the public domain etc.

Chris B has made some recordings available online (applause) but there is a limit to what can be hosted by those of us willing to devote time and fork out from our own pockets for storage etc. My own audio archives are in excess of 2 Terabytes - considerably less in mp3 format of course but it still represents a considerable effort to get it reformatted and uploaded somewhere. Also, there is a proportion of it that will be of little interest to the majority and maybe of no interest at all.

Since the VitA proposal was raised I've been wondering how to approach the problem of accessibility and it occurs to me that in the absence of a national solution brokered by the British Library or the EFDSS who might have the will if not the resources (and I'm talking copyright here, not technology), there might be a middle way. That would be to club together and set up an online database of recordings so at least we know what exists and who's got it. I'm not saying that those who have the recordings will automatically make them available to anyone who asks - I've certainly no wish to be flooded out with requests for copies when I'm busy getting on with my own life, but over a period of time, mp3s could be disseminated and passed around from those who have them to those who need them and without huge violations of the copyright laws.

Does anybody think this is a good idea?

Just to demonstrate what might be ultimately available I'll send a link to the zip file of the Paul Graney Memorial Archive rough catalogue to any interested parties if they send an email request to my mudcat handle followed by @imailbox.com

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Smedley
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM

This might be a long shot, but has anyone thought of contacting a university with an academic commitment to folk history - Newcastle is the obvious candidate in the UK. Their library might be interested, though finances would be tight and getting tighter.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: fat B****rd
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:53 AM

Take 2 - Speaking of old "folk" programmes, does anybody (UK) recall a couple of BBc 2 programmes called TV Ballads ??
I recall the Poozies doing 'Love on a Farmboy's Wages' dressed as factory girls and somebody singing about Luton.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: johnadams
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 10:24 AM

Hi Smedley,

I'm in contact with Newcastle via both Vic Gammon and Chris Coe and their library's ability to handle archive material is limited by resources. Additionally I'd say that academic institutions like universities are not good repositories for anything you might be wishing to reside in the public domain. If anything, they are worse than the BL for access as you need to be in the academic community. At least with the BL you only have to be rich.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:12 PM

The value of 'lost' recordings - bootlegs, BBC transcription disks, etc., is welldescribed here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Live-At-BBC-Fairport-Convention/dp/B000NA2UAU

Lost and found BBC transcription discs provide new matter to one of the 4 CDs in this beautiful and informatively packaged '60s-'70s box set trove culled from its and band's archives spanning the earliest sessions by the first generation Fairport (a West Coast-influenced folk pop act) to the robustly English folk rock act if became best known for. Disc 4 contains the lost (poor quality its has to be said) recordings featuring original singer Judy Dyble with pleasures aplenty in her exquisitely piped takes, including earliest single, "If I Had A RIbbon Bow", and giggles aplenty in the period deejays' matey intros and back-announcements. But it's in the Sandy Denny era that the band establish the credentials that have enabled them to trade the Fairport brand with relative ease and charm over subsequent years.

"Fotheringay", "Si Tu Dois Partir", "Poor Will And The Jolly Hangman", and "Reynardine" are highlights heaped upon highlights enjoying robust yet sensitive treatments couched in swooning musicianship, and bristling with vitality and confidence. This is a fine introduction to one of the finest of their kind and an entertaining ride into radio nostalgia.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:19 PM

It would probably help to establish a definitive list of pre-1980s folk programmes. Appended could be the known years of existence, i.e. date of first edition v.v. date of last edition.

As a start there is:

(London) Folk Song Cellar
Folk & Country British Style
Country Meets Folk
Folk on 2
Friday's Folk
Folk 76
Folk 78
Folk 77 (presumably)
Folkweave

...

For holdings I would suggest setting up a spreadsheet on Google docs to which anyone could append details. Or maybe use a Yahoo groups database - perhaps TradTunes?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Little Robyn
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:43 PM

How about "Tonight in person"?
One BBC programme featuring Judy Collins with Eric Weissberg on guitar and Chuck Israels on bass, recorded in 1966. I used it for editing practice when I worked in the videotape room at WNTV1, back in 1968/9. When I left I kept the old 2inch videotape until I found a mate in the tape room who dubbed it onto a videocassete for me, using the last big Ampex 2000 machine they had that was still working.
Or maybe I shouldn't mention that??
Cheers,
Robyn

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:09 PM

Now THAT does require putting into the public domain!! But how is a moot point. What format is it in now?

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Little Robyn
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 01:22 AM

Mitch has put it on DVD.
We'll send you a copy Chris.
It also has some Wellington folkies you might recognise, from NZBC videotapes.
Cheers,
Robyn

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:09 AM

Why was there a BBC treasure hunt? An interesting expose of the attitude that BBC staff had towards up and coming bands, archives - let's wipe as much as possible due to storage constraints, and having to cope with the Musician's Union constraint of 'needle time,' from one band's perspective.

http://www.circlerecords.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=43

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,S Byers
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 11:22 AM

Here's a good reason to preserve and track down these rare recordings.

http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/lloyd/songs/theflashstockman.html

"Trevor Lucas sings accompanied by guitar and mouth-organ - is a live performance recorded by the BBC Transcription service (Disc #28) in 1966 as part of their Folk Song Cellar radio series from a club in south-west London."

"And Martyn Wyndham-Read sang this on Lloyd, Lucas and his album The Great Australian Legend."

Martyn Wyndham-Read can be heard singing this live on 'Country Meets Folk - 1970s - 1.mp3' here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?k46i7e6hldi0qiz

Wonderful!

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: Little Robyn
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:11 PM

Chris, at Channel One, NZBC, in the 60s and 70s, videotape was expensive (2inch wide) and at 15ips, a half hour programme on a metal spool was heavy and took up lots of space.
So unless a producer said "Keep that one" (in which case someone had to find storage space) after a certain period of time the videotape room was instructed to ERASE the tape and put it back in the shelves to use again. Some of the news or sports stuff that they wanted for the archives, was fed through the Telerecorder and a black and white film was made - usually very grainy and of lousy quality.
The methods of recording used today were only a dream then.
I'm sure BBC had the same problems. If a programme was done on film, there was a solid copy, but if it was a studio programme on VT, the tapes were usually wiped. (Except for Wn3366 which I kept hidden behind #1)
Robyn ex WNTV1 VT and Telecine operator, 1968 - 1973

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:25 PM

I guess the below mentioned radio shows are what we're seeking to save; although the article is incomplete because it doesn't mention Folk Song Cellar nor Country Meets Folk:

From: Wiki - Folk Music of England

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_music_of_England

"The difficulty of gaining regular appearances on television in England has long meant that radio has remained the major popular medium for increasing awareness of the genre. The EFDSS sponsored the BBC Home Service radio program, As I Roved Out, based on field recordings made by Peter Kennedy and Séamus Ennis from 1952 to 1958, which probably did more than any other single factor to introduce the general population to British folk music in the period.[45] Also important were occasional radio shows, such as Lomax's Ballads and Blues, MacColl's Radio-ballads (1958–64) and The Song Carriers (1968). John Peel frequently included folk music of his Top Gear show on Radio One from 1968, but dropped it when punk arrived in the 1970s. The most consistent source of folk music on radio, has been BBC Radio 2. In 1967 "My Kind of folk" was broadcast on Wednesdays. In 1970 "Folk on Friday" began, presented by Jim Lloyd. In 1972 it became "Folk on Sunday". "Folkweave" was presented by Tony Capstick 1975-8. "Folk on Two" (Wednesdays) began in 1980. In 1998 Jim Lloyd retired from the programme and was replaced by Mike Harding. In 2007 it was renamed "The Mike Harding Folk Show". Ian A. Anderson, editor of "fRoots", also presented the occasional series for Radio Two. He hosted a World music programme on "Jazz FM" and then spent 10 years broadcasting on the BBC World Service. He currently hosts "fRoots Radio" on the web. For over twenty years, until 2006, Charlie Gillett presented World music on BBC London."

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 09:24 AM

"The EFDSS sponsored the BBC Home Service radio program, As I Roved Out, based on field recordings made by Peter Kennedy and Séamus Ennis from 1952 to 1958" -

I wonder if anyone has any recordings of 'As I Roved Out' - and

I wonder if EFDSS or anyone still has the recordings made by Peter Kennedy and Séamus Ennis - and if so whattheyare doing to preserve &/or digitise them?

Chris B.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:25 AM

Just dug out several cassettes of old folk programs, (Folk song cellar, folkweave etc) to find that my (expensive) cassette deck no longer works - tapes go round, but no sound - both drives. So cannot convert them at the moment.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B.
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:34 PM

I can offer to convert them for you - and give you a CD of the contents too. Chris B.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Chris B to Pavanne
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:23 PM

Pavanne - do you have a private email address please? Please do contact me at chrisjbrady AT yahoo DOT com

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: fat B****rd
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 03:26 PM

Now.......about TV bloody Ballads. It would seem the prorammes were produced in the early 90s and featured John Hegley amongst others. I also recall a bloke playing a hurdy gurdy at a railway station.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 04:53 PM

Bob Monkhouse was one of the first to have a home video recorder. He had recordings in his personal archive both in film, video and audio that have been lost or wiped by the TV Companies and BBC. These include hundreds of classic comedies long since gone. This amazing archive has only just been discovered, and it is hoped that many of these recordings will eventually be released into the public domain.

Meanwhile I hope that someone has capped to TheBox.bz this programme on BBC4:

The Secret Life of Bob Monkhouse

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00x9b7w

Chris B.

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:30 PM

Chris B
I have sent you an email about some Folkweave programs

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:33 PM

Anyone else who would like to access them, PM me for instructions

Programs so far copied feature
1. Graham & Eileen Pratt
2. Blackmore club 1st visit
3. Blackmore club 2nd visit

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: pavane
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:35 PM

I forgot - First program also features Swan Arcade

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 12:51 AM

With regards to Folkweave a guy emailed me awhile ago:

From: Alan Senior - alan AT senior DOT force9 DOT co DOT uk

"Hiya,I have just read your post on uk.music.folk, I have all the original 1/2"Masters from folk weave,rescued from a skip outside BBC Manchester & spent a few months putting them on to CD's, some great stuff but the BBC Does still own the copyright so there's not much I can do with them !"

Subsequent attempts to contact Alan have proved fruitless; maybe some one here knows him ...

Subject: RE: BBC Treasure Hunt
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 02:16 AM

Mmm A bit of a typo in Alans original message. Very unlikely to be "Half Inch" masters...More likely "Quarter Inch"....