Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel

Subject: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: breezy
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 07:47 PM

There must have been about 1000 in the audience,ready at 8.00 p.m.It began about 8.30 P.m..Some bums had been deposited since 7.30 p.m.No "sorry" for being late and missing good supping time.
Its a huge chapel the roof is 100 feet up, the building cicularish and constructed of brick and stone. The sound engineer was on a hiding to nothing, echoes, booms, and just a general sound.It would probably have been O.K. for your everyday pop-crap but it destroyed the vocals of all the lyrics and poor old Leon, I could have wept for him
Sorry, but for me it was completly the wrong venue and put me off listening to Carthy again
Swarbrick drew genuine love from us.Liza's cleavage was well noted, even from the back row, and Norma we love but she puts the old man in the shade,but even her staggering around with a triangle was no match for Mick Jagger as she loooked as if she were going to heave as each chorus began.
Carthy is 60,his audience is too and with all the handicaps that accompany ageing its no wonder the likes of me couldn't hear a word that was said or sung.The instrumentals were O.K. as they didn't have words.
I am glad I went. It reinforced my opinion that I would be bored if I ever went to a Carthy concert. He did not help by performing an incoherrrant ballad as his penultimate song, followed by a big-band finish that totally lost the plot.The audience -those that remained to the end out of good manners-were glad there was no encore.
Its difficult to get people to folk clubs.Not one decent chorus song for the audience to join in with. No "thanks for coming on a dreary night from a radius of 70 plus miles", and "sorry we're late finishing."
It had better look and come over better on tele than it did in the middle pews or even more people will be alienated
I'm off to get me ears syringed but I like John Kirkpatrick's songs on his C.D. with Old King Coal, and guess what? I can hear every word, blame it on the acoustics.
Bet the rest of you Carthy fans adored it, and his red shirt.Yes I thought his shirt was clear, about all that was, now were back to Liza.Well sang Saul , not as deep as Collins , but still , not bad.Prefer the gold/green hair, but even you are knocking on now.
Good-night

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Desdemona
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:06 PM

Oh....don't give up on our Martin! It sounds like it was a pretty sub-optimal experience overall; not the best setting, apparently. When I saw the title of your post I was fully prepared to be eaten up with jealousy, but it would seem to have been not all that might have been hoped for!

I've seen Martin Carthy several times and been absolutely mesmerised by him; most notably in an extremely small venue when we were literally about a yard from him. Maybe that's what makes the difference.

Sorry you were disappointed; at least it was free(wasn't it?)!

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: John Routledge
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:13 PM

Let's get Carthy into a proper venue!!

A couple of years ago I heard him in the upstairs room of the George in Saltburn Yorkshire at the re-opening of the Saltburn Folk Club.

He did 2 spots of over an hour each and had the packed room - approx 60 audience - spellbound.

Till that night I was not particularly a Carthy fan!!

I can however imagine how dreadful he might have sounded in the Union Chapel.

Cheers John

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Ralphie
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 03:14 AM

Hey Breezy...
I was one of the thousand there last night!!
Having worked (Done Sound) in the Union Chapel, I know exactly what a dog it is...
It was obviously chosen by the TV company for its looks..
(Better than us all sitting on hay bales in a barn I suppose!)
Yes, The sound was pretty dire, but with all the line up changes as the evening progressed, not that surprising, really
Nice to see Swarb there. All in all, considering that it was a TV event, and not a "Real" concert, 8 out of 10!!
If I could see a concert like that on TV everynight, and not yet another episode of bland programming like "Popstars", I'd happily put up with the lack of chorus songs.
At least someone is trying to do something...
Off to the day job now, Bon Chance !!
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST,English Jon
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 03:34 AM

I was there, + Swirlygirl. Collective age, 51, well under sixty. Reasonable "youth" turn out for folk music. Plus my mum and dad came too, neither of whom are sixty. How many under 60's do you expect? Folk has been out of the circle of influence of pop music promotion for a long time now. Now, to address a few points, the acoustics were pretty good, actually, and if "stars in my crown" isn't a chorus song, I don't know what is. I joined in, why didn't you? Too difficult? Sound man did superb job especially with guitar + brass and Chris Wood's fiddle, although vocals were sometimes muddy, a common problem with live sound, and I would have liked to have heard better seperation of Saul and Tim's Boxes. Then again, melodeons are buggers to mic at the best of times.

Wasn't penultimate number "prince heathen"? Granted, If you couldn't hear the words then it would be a bit incomprehensible, but where I was (middle pews) it was all more or less audible. Dominion of the sword (final number) I thought was really interesting, with 11 players, drone based and Aeolian harmony throughout. Not a big band arrangement though. Only two brass instruments for starters, and led by guitar. Hardly Count Basie Orchestra territory.

Finally, if you expect thanks to turn up to see a free gig with Martin, Liza, Norma, John K, Leon, Tim and Saul, Brass Monkey, Swarb, Roger and Chris, even if the weather is mildly inclement for early february then I think you might want to have a serious think about your place in the order of the music industry - Cause I've never heard of you but you are obviously of superstar status, so get a new agent mate.

And another thing. If you didn't like it, you could have left at any time. Didn't waste much time telling us all about it though, did you? Me, I thought it was great, but I'm a big fan of everyone who was on, which is why I went, but anyway, my opinion is severely biased as a result of actually liking the music. Best thing I've seen for a twelvemonth anyway.

EJ.

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 04:54 AM

John, the next decade birthday for you has got to be 60 so there's no need to be quite so age-ist. I missed the Union Chapel recording, but was at the previous CSH one which was really worth going to. As has been said before, this was primarily a BBC recording session and therefore the priority would have to be getting a good recording. I've sung in the Union Chapel (Tenor Soloist in Messiah) and even for that the acoustics leave a lot to be desired. For a recording, the PA has to be kept at a lower level than optimum - more of a foldback level. Don't look on the event as a concert for you - you were there more as a prop or piece of scenery for the recording - after all it was for free. Wait until the programme is shown and then review it.

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 05:01 AM

Does anyone know when it's going to be on TV?

Thanks

Paul

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST,Rhiannon
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 06:09 AM

First of all - thanks to Breezy for getting tickets for Mick and I.

I really enjoyed the concert. There was a good variety of material and, although I admit the sound left much to be desired from an audience point of view, I acknowledge that the sound was primarily for recording purposes and that we were there just to provide a live audience atmosphere.

Highlights for me included seeing the wonderful Dave Swarbrick giving his all with his usual spirited performance, despite his obvious illness. He received a much deserved standing ovation. If you read this Swarby, I've been a fan for many years and I'm looking to your next gig! I thought Eliza sounded even better than usual and was one of the clearest sounds in the whole concert.

Last but not least, it was great to see the wonderous, sexy John Kirkpatrick strutting his stuff. Great to see you John, but can the next gig be done in the buff please. Giggle.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: okthen
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 07:31 AM

PLEASE, someone post the day of transmission, I'd love to see this programme.

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST,swirlygirl
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 07:43 AM

I thought it was fab so there!

:)

xxx

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST,swirlygirl
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 07:46 AM

And i'm only 24!

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST,DMcG at work
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 08:46 AM

I was also there - pity there wasn't some way for us all to meet up and compare notes then! (My age is 49 by the way - anyone working out the average mudcatter age at the event?)

I was seated three rows from the front, almost next to the speakers and the sound was still not very clear. The taped music played before the concert started was pretty quality, although having the same recordings myself (in some cases) made it pretty plain were the problem was.

On the other hand, the concert itself was near the standard of the other live performances I've heard by W:C. In particular, there was great mix of participants and selection of music - you would need to go to a full festival to have such a mix in normal circumstances. Certain numbers - especially 'Stars in my Crown' and one by Brass Monkey whose name I forget for the moment - were magnificent. 'Prince Heathen' is something I've heard MC sing twice live in the past 4 months. It needs to be listened too quite closely, so the poor sound certainly didn't help, but I found this rendition the better one.

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Ralphie
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 09:29 AM

To all....
I'll try to find out a Tx date...
As has been stated, to find that sort of calibre of musos on one stage anywhere.....FOR FREE!!! is well worth putting up with a less than perfect sound mix.
(and we all got a lovely black BBC wristband to boot..Deep Joy!)
EJ....Going to Cheltenham perchance?
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST,Enlgish Jon
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 11:45 AM

Cheltenhmmmm...

will depend on finances. May have to go busking instead. We shall see. You on with P+D? Also, what's accomodation like? - Tent got nicked recently. long story. Sod it, I'm going to have to get another one eventually...

Maybe see you there Ralphie! Cheers, Jon

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: swirlygirl
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 02:19 PM

If you can get time off to go to Cheltenham you can come and see me EJ!!! :)

xxx

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: breezy
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 02:25 PM

Thank you all for your responses, it appears we have an aggreement on the state of the "sound".
I suppose I was expecting a more professional result and it did not happen.
Ah well, that's folk business.
Enunciation, thats what I like from a public performance.Better watch me Ps, Bs, Ts & Qs tonight.
At least I wont be playing a "Boomy bass heavy Martin"
I think Vin Garbutt gets my vote.

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Ralphie
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:19 AM

Hi again
All that I've found out so far is that the show will be on BBC Knowledge (A Digi Channel...Pah!) But I can't find out when as yet...Mind you, It won't help me, as I don't have Digital
Ah Well, I'll still let you know when I find out
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 04:12 AM

There is a review in today's Guardian (4 stars out of 5) - but the sub-editor has decided the column should be headed:

Pop Martin Carthy Union Chapel London

Pop? POP?? Allow me to explode quietly!!!

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 04:53 AM

Guuardian Review

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: breezy
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 09:56 AM

Call that a review?

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: My guru always said
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 02:35 PM

Well Chaps, The transmission date is Tuesday 30th April on BBC4. Time as yet unknown. Looking forward to seeing how it sounds on TV!

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 06:04 AM

Sorry,what was the relevance of bringing my chest into this? I thought the sound was pants too. x

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 07:56 AM

Eliza, he was just being sexist (i.e. a normal human male). But never mind that, just feel sorry for John if Rhiannon gets her way - playing accordion in the buff! Trickeeeeey!

Pete

PS. All you Martin fans - if you haven't yet got the Carthy Chronicles cd & book set, get on to www.free-reed.co.uk right now (note it takes a minute or two). It's pricey, but a great folk document. And no, I'm not connected in any way, just a floor-singing fan and a lover of the tradition, for itself and for its basis for a lot of our contemporary music.

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:08 AM

Pete J,

That wasn't the real Eliza posting the above message.

Totally agree with you regarding the 'Carthy Chronicles' although I've been waiting a long time for my CD Rom and Pete Frame family tree

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:11 AM

Guest, how do you know that - was it you? I'm too trusting to sniff out the fakes!

Pete

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:20 AM

No it wasn't me.

There have however been a few posts in the past 'supposedly' from Liza. I asked her recently, and she'd never even heard of Mudcat....

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Ralphie
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:20 AM

Still haven't got DIGI tv....Poo!
Anyone doing multiple vids ???!
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:37 AM

Ralphie,

I hear that 'ITV Digital' boxes are going pretty cheap... :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Noreen
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:55 AM

See current thread Martin Carthy on BBC4

(It's on tonight)

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Noreen
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 08:58 AM

Ralphie, if my nephew remembers to record it for me, I'll send you mine after I've watched it.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: okthen
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 01:02 PM

Pacer digital terrestrial set top boxes are now available(I'm told) for £99.99, I think they give you 12 extra channels free, but you might need to update your arial.

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Ralphie
Date: 30 Apr 02 - 01:07 PM

Thanks all....particularly GUEST!!!...Mmmm Don't think ITV Digi is such a good investment....!
Noreen....Ta for the offer....Cheers all
Ralphie xx

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Ralphie
Date: 08 May 02 - 03:04 AM

Noreen
Somebody has kindly sent me a copy of both progs,
Although the concert was better than I thought it would be (Sondwise), the documentary before it was IMO superb.
Apart from MC's intelligent commentary, some of the old footage, Scan Tester, early Watersons et al, was quite spine tingling...It made a happy man feel very old !!
I think I'll be starting a campaign for the doc to be broadcast on terrestrial TV. Not for MCs sake, but, as a social comment on the 50s, 60s, 70,s 80s, and 90s..
Bloody Hell...!!
Has he really been around that long??
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Noreen
Date: 08 May 02 - 10:12 AM

Oh good, Ralphie dear- I've received the video but not watched it yet, having been in furrin parts (which I believe you are about to grace with your presence?)

Have fun!

Noreen

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 May 02 - 02:16 PM

Dear all, It certainly was me, and I'll prove it! My mother's maiden name is-oh, hang on... Anyway, nobody has asked me recently about Mudcat. I always put my name when I post here, as I have done on a few occasions. Why would anyone pretend to be me? Now, Elvis I could understand. cheers, ec x

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Ralphie
Date: 08 May 02 - 02:29 PM

Ah yes, GUEST Eliza.....easy for you to say, but, which Elvis??
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 08 May 02 - 03:24 PM

Hi, Eliza....I believe in you...
Just seen a video of both programmes and no complaints from me!!
Looking forward to seeing M C at the Open Door in October..
All the best......Harry.

Subject: RE: Review: Carthy at the Union Chapel
From: Ralphie
Date: 08 May 02 - 04:23 PM

Hey Harry....
I Believe in Eliza too......
I just don't believe in Elvis !!!
Cheers R