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BS: western flicks
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: GUEST,Mac Date: 20 Feb 02 - 05:27 AM Does 'Viva Zapatta' count as a western? Good old Marlon! |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Feb 02 - 12:19 AM You are right, Peter! I remember that song now...must've heard it somewhere at the time. It would have been in the mid-fifties, I think. I had the comic, since my family was highly unconventional in some respects...and we had no TV. Thus I very rarely saw TV as a kid, and not doing so made me a dangerous radical who read way too many books... :-) This led directly to folk music, socialism, Dylan/Baez/Buffy Sainte-Marie, and having very little in common with my peers in school...who were mostly good little upstate New York Republicans in search of a couch potatoe life in the suburban wasteland. They can have it. I figure it was a mob of their spiritual ancestors who had Elfego holed up in that house... :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: leprechaun Date: 20 Feb 02 - 12:04 AM My favorite exchange from Support Your Local Sheriff went something like: If I pull this trigger it'll ruin my gun! Well, it ain't gonna do my finger a whole lotta good!
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Art Thieme Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:13 PM Wesley, You are correct. CROW KILLER ia the book I meant. Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Midchuck Date: 19 Feb 02 - 07:11 PM I think Disney did a made-for-tv movie series on Elfego way the heck back...maybe in the late '50s, early '60s. I remember there was a heck of a shootout in the first one, where an enormous mob of law enforcement types had him trapped in a house alone and couldn't get him... I remember the refrain of the theme music very clearly...
"And the legend was that, Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Little Hawk Date: 19 Feb 02 - 05:43 PM When I was a kid Elfego Baca was a big deal for a while there, but I never saw him on film...only in the comics. Anybody know anything more about this character? - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: DougR Date: 19 Feb 02 - 03:28 PM Kim, I enjoyed reading "Streets of Laredo," but agree the movie is week. "Deadman's Walk," was a waste of time, I thought, both the book and the movie. I thought "Comanche Moon" was a pretty good read, but was a bit too long. I think it could have been said better in fewer pages. I wasn't impressed by "Return to" either. Lanfranc: I was raised with "B" western movies and many of the early TV westerns were little more than "B" westerns. My favorite was Hopalong Cassidy, played by William Boyd. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Lanfranc Date: 19 Feb 02 - 01:27 PM Just about the first adult movie (as opposed to kids' movies) that I ever saw was "The Man from Laramie", starring James Stewart. I loved the 50s and 60s cowboy series like "Rawhide", "Wagon Train", "Cheyenne" and the inimitable "Cisco Kid". Aw, Cisco - Aw Pancho! - still haunts me 40-odd years on! Probably corrupted me for life!
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 19 Feb 02 - 01:15 PM That would be John Colter, who had the honor of doing what the Indians used to call "running arrows." And in the TV sequel to Lonesome Dove, creatively titled Return to Lonesome Dove, Woodrow (this time played by Jon Voigt) has to run arrows, although if I recall right, he gets to keep his clothes. Funny no one has mentioned Streets of Laredo or Dead Man's Walk, McMurtry's sequel and prequel to Lonesome Dove. I guess the rest of you disliked them as much as I did. Return to Lonesome Dove - which McMurtry didn't write, as far as I know - was a lot better, I thought. And there's one more book in the Lonesome Dove series, which tells about Gus & Woodrow's days as Texas Rangers. It's called Comanche Moon, and I have yet to finish it. McMurty should've quit while he was ahead. There's just no improving on a good story. Since I'm now at home with a sore throat, I think I'll fire up the VCR. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Wesley S Date: 19 Feb 02 - 01:14 PM Another book about the real Jeremiah Johnson is "Crow Killer". Sorry I can't remeber the authors name but I know I have the book at home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Clifton53 Date: 19 Feb 02 - 01:04 PM Sorry Art, so many titles floating around, I missed it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Lonesome EJ Date: 19 Feb 02 - 12:18 PM The Naked Prey, a movie by and starring Cornel Wilde made in the early sixties, was based on the true story of a mountain man captured by Indians near Three Forks Montana. He was stripped naked and given a head start as he was pursued by warriors. He succeeded in escaping them and found refuge in what is now Yellowstone Park. I'm thinking the man's name was Colter, and that Yellowstone was originally called "Colter's Hell" by the mountain men. Is that right Art? In Wilde's film, the action takes place in Africa and Wilde is a big-game guide captured by an African Tribe. Good film. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Art Thieme Date: 19 Feb 02 - 11:32 AM Check out the book "LIVER EATING JOHNSON" by Thorp(?) I think. That's the REAL story of Jeremiah Johnson. Still a great movie -- that I did mention in an earlier post. Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Clifton53 Date: 19 Feb 02 - 11:27 AM Kim C., I doubt I could skin grizz, prolly run like a rabbit if I even smelled a bahr.
To quote Will Geer again, " You've done well to keep your hair Pilgrim, when so many's after it" Clifton |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Kim C Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:48 AM Clifton53, can you skin grizz? |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Hrothgar Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:05 AM And how many Oscars did "Cat Ballou" win not to get a mention? Well, maybe only one, but wasn't it worth t? |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Clifton53 Date: 19 Feb 02 - 12:37 AM Again, not a strict cowboy movie, but nobody's mentioned " Jerimiah Johnson ", with Robert Redford and Will Geer. My favorite scene in that movie is when Geer and Redford have bedded down for the night, and a little while later, Redford's blanket catches on fire as he laid it down a wee bit close to the fire, and Geer, chuckling from beneath his blankets tells him, " hee hee, spotted it right off". |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Art Thieme Date: 18 Feb 02 - 09:51 PM The film with Bruce Dern mentioned here was SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF---a hilarious Western that starred James Garner, B.Dern and Walter Brennan. Carol and I came out of a LONG trip in the Barrataria bayou outside of New Orleans. We were very sunburnt and overheated so when we ducked into the air-conditioned theater darkness where the film was running it was truly what we needed right then. I have never laughed so long and loud as I did at that superb film and those 3 guys. Try it you'll like it. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: DougR Date: 18 Feb 02 - 09:38 PM I think my favorite scene in The Big Country is the Burl Ives' scene where he forces the duel between Greg Peck and his son. The scene where he bursts into the dinner party is good too. The arrogance of the ranchers, who simply could not accept the fact that Peck could find his way on the ranch with a compass, was a great theme, I thought. I wasn't as enthused about Duel in the Sun, but I should watch it again, LEJ, if you are that impressed with it. I haven't seen it, probably, since it was released in the 50's? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Lonesome EJ Date: 18 Feb 02 - 09:09 PM My favorite scene in The Big Country is the climactic fist-fight between Peck and his rival. The camera starts in tight on their struggle, grim faces, blood and dirt, then gradually pans out until their fight is revealed in its real significance against the surrounding endless plains and the mountains towering behind them...they are tiny figures whose winning or losing will have no impact on the vast landscape. Duel in the Sun is my other favorite Peck western. The girl must choose between a safe respectable life with the bland Joseph Cotton, or fire and passion with the false-hearted Peck. Their ultimate confrontation is an ultimate symbol for the thin line that divides love from hatred. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: DougR Date: 18 Feb 02 - 08:32 PM I think Peck's best two westerns, though, was "Big Country" and "The Gunfighter." I knew him professionally back in the early 70's and asked him why he made "McKenna's Gold," which in my opinion, is one of the worst ever made. He had no good answer. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: GUEST,Paulie Date: 18 Feb 02 - 03:25 PM Check out THE BRAVADOS, starring Gregory Peck.
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Kim C Date: 18 Feb 02 - 03:11 PM Oh! I saw My Darling Clementine once. It was a good movie... although by modern standards, a little kitschy. (Somehow I don't think Doc Holliday wore black eyeliner.) But we liked it. What's scary about Kurt Russell as Wyatt Earp is that He Looks Exactly Like Him. I will second the vote for anything with Sam Elliott. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: DougR Date: 18 Feb 02 - 02:55 PM Kim, no argument with you on the better Wyatt Earp movie. The one with Kurt Russell was much better than Costner's I thought. I still like the old one with Henry Fonda better than any of them though. John Ford knew how to direct Westerns. It has already been mentioned: "My Darling Clementine." I agree with you about Danny Glover too, and with the Sheriff and Deputy from Arkansas. Aw hell! The whole cast was good. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Kim C Date: 18 Feb 02 - 11:17 AM LONESOME DOVE (yes I meant to holler) Sorry to be late in the conversation. This is my all-time favorite Western and I could go on for days. Mister and I were just watching a movie - not a Western, and now I can't think of what it was - but the woman was berating the man for something, and she said, you could have saved him.... I said, that's just like Clara arguing with Woodrow over Gus. And I have known one or two Gus-es... men I was crazy about, but had the sense enough to know it wasn't going to work. Thankfully the one I chose to marry has enough sense not to get kicked in the head by a horse. And boy, was Mister ever pissed when Gus died! (No, we really aren't spoiling this for anyone who hasn't seen it. There is SOOOOOOO much more than that.) Danny Glover as Deets is totally awesome. Tombstone with Kurt Russell is another favorite. Don't bother with Costner's Wyatt Earp, except to see Dennis Quaid as Doc Holliday. (although Val Kilmer was better...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: leprechaun Date: 17 Feb 02 - 10:07 PM Just reading these posts makes me want to get injured so I can watch all theses movies again. Katlaughing has it right with Paint Your Wagon. Don't miss it. I think Bruce Dern is the greatest bad guy of all time. He did a relatively obscure movie where he wasn't exactly the bad guy, but he was an outlaw adept at escaping from custody. I can't remember the name of the movie right now; one too many glasses of wine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Little Hawk Date: 17 Feb 02 - 09:40 PM Real life inspires whatever one is willing to be inspired by. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: DougR Date: 17 Feb 02 - 05:22 PM Hmmm. Art, you're not a pessimist are you? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Art Thieme Date: 17 Feb 02 - 01:09 PM McMurtry's books don't inspire hope because real life doesen't inspire hope. Only religion inspires hope--a contrivance to make people feel better while avoiding reality. One can get to an actual realization of this reality by working toward a wisdom that encompasses INSECURITY. After that, whatever comes down the pike is, more or less, o.k. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Art Thieme Date: 17 Feb 02 - 12:59 PM This was fiction emulating reality once again. Charlie Goodnight, the real western hero, took his partner's corpse (Oliver Loving) all the way back to Texas for burial. I remember seeing an actual pho of the wagon moving south on the trail the two men had pioneered and made famous---THE GOODNIGHT-LOVING TRAIL. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Feb 02 - 09:54 PM Brilliant analysis of both Call and McCrae, LEJ! You may be right that Gus did what was most appropriate for him, given his quixotic nature. Many Indian warriors would have done something similar, also being romantics and fatalists by nature. And yes, that was part of what attracted the ladies... And you're right about Call's sense of duty driving him. His kind of psychology gives me the creeps. Military regimes of the worst sort have so often capitalized on that quality in people, finding willing heroes and loyal killers to murder and destroy for them. You can win iron crosses and congressional medals of honour with such dedication...often posthumously. At any rate, I enjoyed reading your angle on the whole thing thoroughly. As always, it shows there are many valid ways to look at something. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: DougR Date: 16 Feb 02 - 05:36 PM LEJ, LH, damn fine assessments, both of them. I do agree, LEJ, that McMurtry has a tendency to overwrite at times, and some of his books are pure BS in my opinion. When he really tries, though, he can grab me. I thought the follow-up to "The Last Picture Show," "Texasville," was pure crap. As to Gus, if he had been content hobbling around with only one leg, he probably could have saved himself. That wouldn't have been Gus though. He would have found it awkward to try to manage a poke with only one leg. Den, I thought Culpepper was a very good movie. I don't think I have seen "Bad Company." I'll have to check that one out. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Don Firth Date: 16 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM Another vote for "The Big Country." It has everything a Western movie buff could possibly want. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Lonesome EJ Date: 16 Feb 02 - 03:05 PM Good points,LH. But Gus was a Quixotic figure and a flamboyant risk-taker. I believe that those chracteristics were exactly what attracted the two women AND Capt Call to him. He was also a fatalist, and never revealed a sense of remorse or tragedy in his own death. I think we view Call differently. To me, he was emotionally crippled by his own sense of duty and reponsibility. The Gus part of him, and there was an element of Gus within him, was so far suppressed that he only glimpsed it in the crazy actions of his friend. But Call wasn't unemotional, and I think Jones did a hell of a job of showing the glimmers of the inner Call in the deathbed scene with Gus, in the scenes with Call's son, and in the vengeance scene with Blue Duck. Because they were sparks under the surface, they were no less intense. And Gus loved to tweak Call's sense of duty. In his request for Call to haul his body home, he forced Call to realize, through his self-imposed sense of duty, to experience a totally Quixotic adventure that drove him beyond the brink of his own self-control. It was truly Gus' last gift to him. Call's sense of vision, true, left its victims in his wake, but the vision was no less grand for that. He also realized a lot of dreams for a lot of people, whether he intended to or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Feb 02 - 02:41 PM Interesting viewpoint, LEJ. I haven't read any Robert Ludlum, but I think I get what you mean. I think most people come to crucial turning points in their lives...where they can either wake up, change their habitual pattersn, and vitally alter and improve their destiny...or...they just keep blindly (or weakly) doing what they've always done and meander off to a much lesser destiny. The latter is what happens in the majority of cases. Now...Augustus McCrae had his accustomed, comfy ways and routines, and one of them was going off on crazy adventures with Captain Call (who was an emotionally supressed nut case, with a talent for practical action). Augustus, however, was not a stupid man nor was he devoid of imagination. He was smart enough to see the alternatives. He had a crucial moment when he could have decided to let Call go off and destroy himself (and numerous others) on some unrealistic folly...and he could have made a really fine life for himself with those 2 fine ladies on the ranch. He could have fulfilled the love of a lifetime. He made the wrong decision. Because of it, he died prematurely, and pointlessly. So did some Indians and some cowboys, while the rock-headed idiot Call went on fanatically doing further wrong things until the final gasp of utter futility. He (Call) ruined so many lives. All Gus had to do was listen to the lady. She had it figured right. Call couldn't save himself, but Gus could have. What a shame he did not. On such slender things does a human life rise or fall. I do not much enjoy stories where no one has enough sense to change themselves. The wonderful thing about life is...we CAN change...if we are willing to. That's the challenge. Why not write about that? - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Lonesome EJ Date: 16 Feb 02 - 01:28 PM re Gus dying in Lonesome Dove. It certainly made for a gripping scene in the movie, and gave Tommie Lee Jones' character an opportunity to push his limits, both emotionally and from the standpoint of his "sense of duty". And would Gus have been happy staying home on the Montana ranch? I doubt it. For the Jones character, the journey was a means to an end. For Gus, the journey WAS the important thing, and I think his destiny pleased him : dying a heroic death with his best friend at his side. Now regarding McMurtry. I concede that his vision of the plot for Lonesome Dove was stunning. That's why the film was so damn good. It's his writing that rendered the story transparent to me. My concern when I read is : does this writer render truth in his words? To me, McMurtry is like the film director whose movie has great potential, but we see the camera and the boom mic all too often. Now I only read 50 pages of the book, so I'm basing my opinion on that. My assessment would be McMurtry has the vision of a Hemmingway, and the writing talent of Robert Ludlum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: van lingle Date: 16 Feb 02 - 07:54 AM i'm compilng a hell of a list here folks, thank you. did anyone mention "hombre" which featured a smoldering paul newman and a magnificently evil richard boone. adapted from one of elmore leonards' first novels, i believe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: GUEST,Den Date: 16 Feb 02 - 01:09 AM I scanned OK... but I don't think anybody mentioned a couple of greats IMO. Namely "the Culpepper Cattle Company" and Bad Company". Doug here we are again. Check these movies out and let me know what you think PM. Ian great choice with Evil Roy Slade, we had a fan club, which pretty much consisted of our band and friends, I think that "Stubby Little Index Finger", should be in the DT. Den |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: DougR Date: 16 Feb 02 - 12:55 AM Well, L.H., you could be right, of course, but McMurtry has done pretty well for himself writing in the style that he does, I think. I agree with others that questioned LEJ about his take on Lonesome Dove. I, myself, think it is probably the most interesting book of fiction I read in the 90's. I've read some of his books that, in my opinion, missed the mark. But the Lonesome Dove series (with the exception of the one about the gang trying to invade Santa Fe) was very good. "The Last Picture Show," I think is a classic, and the movie ain't shabby. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Feb 02 - 08:49 PM Oh, they're realistic, all right. I guess you have to ask yourself what is the actual reason to write a story? Is it to simply report on what you think is out there? If so, then what you think may be different from what someone esle thinks, as we all have a rather subjective view of reality. Some people die feeling that it was all a waste and that their life has come to nothing. Others die proudly, and others die peacefully, without regret. Who was the wiser? My problem with McMurtry's books is that they do not inspire hope. Surely it would be wiser to write material that does? The greatest written works ever written are precisely those which do inspire hope and a faith that goes beyond the mere material circumstances of life. But, for books that don't, McMurtry's are exceedinly well written. I just can't see the point of it all, upon finishing one of them. Why waste brilliant craft on pessimism and the defeat of the human spirit? - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Art Thieme Date: 15 Feb 02 - 07:18 PM McMurtry's endings are right on from where I sit. The end of "Grapes Of Wrath" (the book==not the film) was proletariat romance----but McMurtry just reflects "what is". Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Wesley S Date: 15 Feb 02 - 03:52 PM Yes Guest - Great movie. I think Candice Bergan was in it too. The title of the movie will come to me as I'm driving home I'm sure. It was on the late movie just a few weeks ago. Intersting scene when the Mexican rider walked into a bar to get some relief for his toothache and the bartender offered him heroin and morphine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: GUEST,GUEST Date: 15 Feb 02 - 03:47 PM "The Professionals" Burt Lancaster, Woody Strode, Lee Marvin, Robert Ryan Can't remember the name, but Gene Hackman, James Coburn, a horse race across the west by a newspaper, early 1900's |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Lonesome EJ Date: 15 Feb 02 - 02:26 PM Hey guys, I could be wrong. There's no accounting for taste :>} |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Feb 02 - 01:11 PM Gad, LEJ, you have succeeded in dumfounding me! I guess we have different tastes in literary style or something. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Wesley S Date: 15 Feb 02 - 01:06 PM EJ - Not to be argumentative but did you know that Lonesome Dove won the Pulitzer prize for fiction? |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Lonesome EJ Date: 15 Feb 02 - 11:50 AM I read the first 30 pages of Lonesome Dove and gave it up. I found McMurtry's writing amateurish and inconsistant. The movie, on the other hand, was really good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Wesley S Date: 15 Feb 02 - 11:13 AM Lin - Agreed that Arnie wouldn't be my first choice either { I'm not sure who would be } but he does have enough clout to get it done if he wanted to. Besides, to Americans his accent would sound Cossack. By the way you have great taste in books. |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: Lin in Kansas Date: 15 Feb 02 - 01:23 AM How about "The Frisco Kid," with Gene Wilder and a very young (c. 1979) Harrison Ford? Ford plays the Bad Guy With The Heart Of Gold, a part he's done well since Star Wars (the first one). Gene does a great job as a Polish rabbi bringing a copy of the Torah to the West. I could watch Gene in most anything ("The name is Fronk-en-steen, you idiot!") Wesley S., I can't see Arnie as Shad, or as Rostov either. And who the heck could play Levi? That's the trouble with making movies from books; the players hardly ever match my idea of what the characters should look and act like... Ranger Steve, you're right--they just don't make 'em like they usta. Damn, now I've got to go read that book AGAIN! Lin |
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Subject: RE: BS: western flicks From: musicmick Date: 15 Feb 02 - 12:27 AM I just love this thread. The movie with John Wayne as a singing cowboy was RANDY RIDES ALONE. It wasn't a great film but it has curiousity value. An unheralded gem was VALDEZ IS COMING with Burt Lanchester as a Mexican deputy hired by a nasty rancher. How about HOMBRE, with Paul Newman and Richard Boone? ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST was Sergio Leone's masterpiece, even better than THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY. If you like broad comedy, try PALEFACE with Bob Hope and Jane Russel. But if you are like me, and you want pure escapist fare, grab ahold of those wonderful B westerns of the 40's. I, particularly, liked Lash La Rue and the Durango Kid but, in a pinch, Sunset Carson or Hopalong Cassidy filled the bill. |