BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Grab
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 08:35 AM

Mrzzy, that's a good reason not to work at Microsoft.

Any company which considers a good co-worker to be one who knows a particular riddle/trick/useless fact is by definition the place you most want to avoid working in, since the company is obviously populated with total pillocks! It's about as valid as only employing ppl who can pat their head and rub their stomach at the same time or who can recite the alphabet backwards. So if you see this kind of thing at an interview, leave and don't come back.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 12:26 PM

thanks Nigel, good puzzle.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Mar 02 - 12:26 PM

Anyone still tracing this might like "Song Quiz" posted today!
Nothing like blowing your own trumpet, tomorrow I move up to a Sousaphone!

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 11:28 AM

Guest petr. yes, you are missing the fact that it was a discussion between to mathematicians, so each could be expected to understand the logical processes. So, once the product of the three ages had been set at 36, the total of the ages was equal to the number of tables in the restaurant. The other mathematician was still unable to solve this, and so the idea of three numbers with a product of 36, and a sum of "X" had to have more than 1 solution. Once we have found all the sets of 3 digits with a product of 36, we find there are only two sets with the same sum. Mathematician No 2 is unable to choose between these until he also knows that there is an "Eldest" daughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 08:17 PM

re the mathematicians daughters why not 2x3x6=36 am I missing something?

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 01:29 PM

I ws thinking it was time for a Continued thread, but we seem to be descending into silliness, so I'm not, yet. If new brainteasers maybe? Anybody got any MUSICAL ones?

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:35 AM

Ah, a bilingual pun! I love 'em when I can understand 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:16 AM

How would you feel, Sharon, if you had to explain a stupid joke based upon two different meanings of the same string of phonemes in two languages with an explanation that is in the very least ten times as long as the joke?

Fibula did allude to the song 'Cod liver oil and the orange juice' in her last post, a song made know by the late Hamish Imlach. 'Hamish' sounds similar to the German word 'hämisch' which in English means 'maliciously' and so on...

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:47 AM

¿En Inglés, por favor? No hablo Aleman. ¡Muchas gracias!

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:37 AM

...schrieb sie uns grinste hamish.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:09 AM

Maybe they'd be okay in orange juice then!

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 08:59 AM

Penguins aren't eaten by a lot of things, including humans. They apparently taste just awful, like cod liver oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:57 AM

or because they live at opposite poles! *g*

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:30 AM

They don't eat Penguins 'cos they can't get the wrappers off!

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:27 AM

As Sharon has alluded to in her question (diameter or circumference) Nigel's formula to come to all other solutions is strictly speaking wrong (though correct for all practical purposes). His formular comes from the planar geometry and the correct formula (which I don't know) would have to come from spherical geometry.

The 'error' he makes is to treat the earth as if it was flat. Since we all know that this error (centimetres?, millimeters?)is very small for walks of up to two miles and certainly smaller than any random deviation in our walking, for all practical purposes Nigel has given all possible solutions for all practical purposes .

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 04:34 AM

Sorry, character set difference, previous post should say a"a circle (centred on S Pole) of radius 1/2*Pi) Alt27 gave that on screen, but it seems to have mutated in crossing the big pond)

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 04:28 AM

The classic "Bear" problem requires the answer "White", which most people have heard enough times that they do not bother to reason why, The house in this case is clearly at the North Pole, so that going 2 mls S then 2mls E leaves one at a position that is still 2 mls S of the pole. Similar cases close to the pole permit one to travel along an arc of longitude where ones return journey N converges with ones outward journey.

Shooting the bear makes any answer about the S Pole wrong, as there would be no bears there. But once the bear is out of the question (hence "taking a leak") then positions near the S pole are possible. If, after walking 2 miles S the man is on a circle (centred on S pole) of radius 1/(2ð) then walking 2 mls E will take him in a circle once around the pole. So any start point on a circle 2 mls N of this circle is suitable to build a home to fit the question. Similarly, moving closer to the S Pole, we can find positions where the man wals 2 mls E and circles the pole twice. Giving another set of answers, and we can continue inwards for more answers. However, his house cannot be closer than 2 mls from the S pole, as then he would be unable to start by walking 2 mls S.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Why don't polar bears eat penguins ??

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Trevor
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 03:15 AM

My brain hurts!

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Hilary
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 08:48 PM

Red Celt is quite right about the earth/hole & Walrus has cracked the GGE (9,3). So the yolk isn't on them !

If you want picky......... are we talking magnetic north or due north ......

Hilary

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 04:25 PM

Nitpicky? Ah, a kindred spirit! :^)

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:58 PM

Yeah, I know, I just felt nitpicky!

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 02:04 PM

Wolfgang: Is that '3730 m from the North Pole' measurement the distance from pole to pole as measured by the diameter of the earth, or the circumference? I forget what each of those measurements is, in miles.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 01:54 PM

Mrrzy: I'd thought of that point (that color can be defined by our perception of it), but I wanted to clarify that there is no white pigment in the bear's fur and that the bear's coloration appears differently depending on the circumstances. So we can agree, I think, that a polar bear "is" white sometimes.

So to answer the question "What color is the bear?" in the riddle by saying "white", we'd have to assume that the conditions were such that he would appear to be white. Again, one of those assumed standard conditions that irritate me about riddles!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST,RedCelt(not signed in)
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:03 PM

Wolfgang, If I'm correct, at that distance from the pole, with that distance traveled, you would be back at your startpoint, having circumnavigated your wee part of the globe.

And the answer to the 'How much dirt question above would of course, be NONE, for if oyu had dirt in there, it wouldn;t be a hole.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:33 AM

I agree that my bad wording of 'what happens' instead of e.g. 'where are you' is to blame for all those funny responses I got beside the one response (GUEST Date: 28-Feb-02 - 11:00 AM) I had expected in that context.

Still, there are more correct responses to Nigel's 'taking a leak' question than just 'South Pole' and my '3730 m from the North Pole' response is just one of them.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:12 AM

Thanks about the 17 mn! It was really bugging me.

Also, never eat polar bear liver. It contains enough Vitamin A to kill a human. And from a psychological point of view, if a polar bear LOOKS white in its natural habitat, it IS white to our perceptual systems, and explaining how that illusion is created doesn't change the perception, although it is fascinating! Wonder if they ever turn green in the wild? Remember the green monkey experiment? Wonder what polar bears would do with a green one... What happened in the zoo, did it bollix their social interactions?

And Trevor, no, I don't. Do you get mine?

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:12 AM

But what's supposed to "happen"?

You might meet a 'pretty fair maid'

That's what normally happens when you 'walk out'

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:08 AM

Can one swim a distance of milliliters? *G*

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:04 AM

Sorry, Nigel, I got confused between your "bear" question (North Pole) and your "taking a leak" question (South Pole).

Wolfgang, I don't understand the question "What happens?" in your challenge. You'd be east of where you were but the same distance from the pole. But what's supposed to "happen"?

If it's the North Pole, I suppose what would happen is that you'd get wet, since I've read that, with global warning, the polar ice cap has melted at the pole (so you wouldn't be walking east, you'd be rowing... or swimming).

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:00 AM

Wolfgang: 'Back where you started', is I assume the required response to your question?

It's a little confusing as you mix metric and imperial measurements. Or is that part of the 'challenge?'

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 10:23 AM

Still no takers (except: cold feet, tired feet) for my challenge? 'South pole' is just one possible answer to Nigel's question (in the last posted version; in an earlier it is 'North pole'). What are the other responses?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: SharonA
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:41 AM

GUEST: Mine would! *G*

Wolfgang's right; the answer to the question as posted is the South Pole... and I don't believe there are any bears (polar or otherwise) at the South Pole.

As for the color of the polar bear, it is not white, contrary to popular belief. Here's an excerpt from this page: http://www.polarbearsalive.org/facts3.htm (probably more than anyone wanted to know, but here it is anyway)....


POLAR BEAR FUR

* Despite what our eyes tell us, a polar bear's fur is not white. Each hair shaft is pigment-free and transparent with a hollow core.
* Polar bears look white because the hollow core scatters and reflects visable light, much like ice and snow does.
* When photographed with film sensitive to ultraviolet light, polar bears appear black.

     Early speculation over this discrepancy produced a theory, now widely repeated as fact, that polar bear hair acts like a fiber optic guide to conduct ultraviolet light to the skin.
     In 1998, Daniel W. Koon, a physicist at St. Lawrence University in Canton, New York, decided to actually test whether or not polar bear hair could efficiently conduct ultraviolet light.
     Koon and a graduate assistant, Reid Hutchins, obtained polar bear hair from the Seneca Park Zoo in Rochester. Their experiments showed that a one-fifth inch strand of polar bear hair was able to conduct less than a thousandth of a percent of the applied ultraviolet light. With such a high loss rate, meaningful amounts of ultraviolet light cannot be reaching a polar bear's skin.
     Instead, Koon believes the ultraviolet light is absorbed by the keratin making up the hair.

* In 1979, three polar bears at the San Diego Zoo turned green. Scientists discovered that colonies of algae were growing in the bears' hollow hair shafts.
* Although the algae in no way harmed the animals, zoo veterinarian Phillip Robinson restored the bears' "white" fur by killing the algae with a salt solution.
* The fur on a polar bear cub [appears] whiter than that of adult bears. In older bears, [apparent] fur colors range from white to almost yellow.
* Hybrid cubs born to captive polar bears and their close relative, the brown bear, are "white" at birth but later turn blue-brown or yellow-white [I wonder if this means that some pigment enters the hair shaft?].
* A polar bear is so well-insulated that it experiences almost no heat loss. In addition to its insulating fur, the bear's blubber layer can measure 4.5 inches thick.
* So effective is the polar bear's insulation that adult males quickly overheat when they run [All the same, I wouldn't try to outrun one if I were you].
* Because polar bears give off no detectable heat, they do not show up in infrared photographs. (Infrared film measures heat.) When a scientist attempted to photograph a bear with such film, he produced a print with a single spot -- the puff of air caused by the animal's breath.

Sources: Lords of the Arctic by Richard C. Davids (Macmillan Publishing, 1982); Polar Bears by Ian Stirling (University of Michigan Press, Ann Arbor, 1988); Daniel W. Koon, "Is Polar Bear Hair Fiber Optic?", Applied Optics, Vol 37, page 3198.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST,Hilary, not logged in
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:30 AM

Hi, Nigel

Interesting point about not responding immediately, though you posted just before I did so I hadn't read your post.

What does everyone think is an appropriate time-lag ?

As we seem to be getting an excellent supply of conundrums it strike me as necessary at the time.

Ok, calculators ready ? Though you've probably all heard this one before....

I've dug a hole 3feet+2inches long X 4feet+5inches wide X 2foot deep. How much soil is there in the hole ? NB for the non-imperialists : one foot=12inches

Last guest - too true.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 08:26 AM

your legs feel tired?

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 08:21 AM

Nigel,

look back at your question. The answer you had in mind to be correct is 'North Pole'. The trivial answer that actually is correct is 'South Pole'.

My answer is part the many nontrivial responses.

To make it easier: My house is 2 ml + 512 m away from the North pole. What happens if you are 512 m from any of the two poles and walk east for 2 ml?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:57 AM

Guest, with an answer of just "South Pole?"

Should you not have signed in as Guessed ?

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Trevor
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:55 AM

Donal, that's more or less what I said , except I said 'What would YOUR answer be....' and went through that door. Cuts out a stage in the reasoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:54 AM

South Pole?

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:53 AM

Wolfgang, North Pole, Any point at a distance (no calculator with me so I'll take your word) X metres from N Pole, But... Where else ??

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:48 AM

Blame my pocket calculator: roughly 3730 m from the North Pole

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:46 AM

There is an infinite number of correct responses to Nigel's version of the 'where is the house' puzzle. One of them is:

At any point that has a distance of 2121 m from the North Pole.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:40 AM

North Pole

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: donal
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:39 AM

Back to the original question (I hope it hasn't been answered already)

The question to be asked is - "If I asked your twin which door to go through, which would he say ?" Then go through the other door.

The truth teller would say what his twin would say (ie. a lie) and the liar would NOT say what his twin would say (ie. again a lie). Therefore use the other door !

Donal

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:38 AM

No apologies for this Crossword clue today:

Continue? Milligan (4)

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:10 AM

To help (or hinder) people with the 'Bear' question,

A man leaves his house, walks 2 miles North, walks 2 miles East, relieves himself in the snow, and walks 2 miles South, back to his house, Where is his house ?

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 06:53 AM

Nigel - likewise your answer to mine when I was PM-ing clues to people! *BG*

The house is at the North Pole?

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 06:50 AM

Hilary, yes, I liked that one, but left it for others. See my recent post for Fibula about immediate responses.

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Hilary
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 06:48 AM

Nigel's last clue .. ANAGRAM, I like the 'E' clue, very surreal.

A few letters put in for gge (9,3)

S _ R_ _ _ _ _ _ , _ G _

Hilary

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 06:47 AM

Fibula, I realise Mrzzy probably knew the bear's colour before requesting a reiteration of the question, but you could have delayed posting your response slightly, so that it did not show immediately below the question! Also, can you (correctly) justify your answer ?. And I don't mean move it to the right or left margin!

Subject: RE: BS: Mental Workouts without Dilbert
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 06:35 AM

...although this is subjective and depends on perception (just to join the pedants who had issue with the ages in my puzzle!).