new tenor banjo - any tips?

Subject: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Spartacus
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 03:21 PM

I recently came across a vega tenor banjo in my grandfathers garage. I took it to a shop and had it set up. Now all i need to do is learn to play it. Can anyone give me a little history and/or tips on playing this thing? I picked up a chord book, but i don't have much banjo experience. Is this an accompaniment instrument? Is it usually finger picked or flat picked? If it were a side of beef, how much would it weigh?

-Spartacus

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Tiger
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 03:26 PM

Usually played with a plectrum. Hard to think of it as an accompaniment instrument since it's so loud, but I've seen whole bands made up of these things.

How about a few choruses of "Waiting for the Robert E. Lee"?

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 03:33 PM

Here is a history.

The tenor is usually played with a plectrum. There are 2 main tunings "Jazz" or Standard which is CGDA and "Irish" which is GDAE. In jazz, the instrument is used for chordal accompanyment but in Irish and I think most other folk, it is nearly always used as a melody instrument.

Sully produces a tutor book for the Irish style and I believe Gerry O'Conner also does one.

Jon

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Aidan Crossey
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 05:48 PM

Here's a link to my site which has a tunebook of Irish tunes in mandolin tablature ... which also doubles for the banjo... Click here

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Leeder
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 06:23 PM

I believe some people tune it AEAE for Irish music.

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 09:56 PM

I just got one too. Any suggestions on how to practice without antagonizing the neighbors? I used to tease Jon about his not wanting to play his on late night HearMe. Now I understand why. It is loud.

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 10:32 PM

In banjo bands the PLECTRUM BANJO was the melody instrument. I think the tenor was mainly for harmony. The tenor's neck is 2 frets shorter than the plectrum (maybe more). I think we had another thread on this topic a while ago.

Art

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 11:02 PM

Art, I think the plectrum (and 5 string) has 22 frets. The tenor mostly comes in 19 and 17 fret versions, the 17 fret being popular with the Irish style players because of the lesser stretch involved for the open melody playing. I say mostly as I am in some doubt as I have for example read references to things like 18 fret tenors but 19 and 17 are the "standards".

Jon

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 11:12 PM

Sinsull, a good approach is to wedge some towel between the rod(s)/ dowel that connect the neck to the pot and the head. There are also mutes that can go against the bridge.

I still couldn't dampen mine enough for late night playing in the flat. I think one of the reasons is the banjo has the sort of sound that can penetrate and still be heard even if quiet, at least if it stil to sound like a banjo (if that makes any sense).

Jon

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 11:23 PM

Mary:

What type did you get? 17, or 19 Fret? Open back ? How are you tuning it? As discussed above, there is standard tenor, and also Irish. Others tune theirs in "Chicago" tuning, which is the same as a baritone Uke, or the top four strings of the Guitar. That is how I currently have mine tuned since it allows me to use Uke fingerings.

I look forward to hearing you play at the next getaway. I'll even bring mine and we can really keep people up late at night :-).

JAB

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 11:49 PM

Sinsull,

You can buy mutes for them. Jed Marum was saying that the ones that Rick Fielding makes work wonderfully.

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: mooman
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 05:20 AM

Dear Spartacus,

I now play a 17 fret Lyon and Healy 1925 vintage tenor and used to play a Vega N-style. The tutors John referred to are reasonably good but the best way is to try and find a session with a friendly tenor player (we are a friendly bunch!).

My resonator is more or less permanently "fixed" (it is a "plate" type with five screws securing it) so I can't dampen like Jon. For damping (I never actually bother really!) I therefore use a quickfix metal "damper" that is secured just behind the bridge with a thumbscrew. You can get one of these from any decent supplier like Sully or Andy Perkins (in the UK) or Mandolin Bothers or Elderly in the US.

To get a decent tune won't take too much sweat, just "go for it" (not too fast at first or, indeed in my view, at any time! ...I've seen a few "speed freaks" lose too much subtlety and "feel" at supersonic levels!), the tricky things on tenor banjo are good fast triplets and "cranning" but these will come also with practice.

Good luck with your playing... I play guitar, mandolin, octave mandolin, bouzouki and a couple of other instruments as well but still find the tenor the most "fun" instrument!

Best regards,

mooman

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 08:25 AM

I had a metal fiddle mute that attached to the bridge and it really helped, but as it was for a fiddle and I play the five string it didn't dampen the fifth string. I am going to check out one of Rick's when I see him next.

Spartacus, you found this instrument and are trying to adapt to it. If you prefer a five string to a tenor you can usually just put a five string neck on it. Many of the vintage Five Strings that are so popular with Bluegrassers started their life as tenors.

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 08:40 AM

As far as I understand it, Vegas with Whyte Laydie and Tubaphone tone rings are good candidates for conversion but the end product will be a banjo best suited for old-timey music rather than a bluegrass instrument where the Gibson Mastertone design is pretty much the standard.

If you do go down the conversion route, be sure to keep the tenor neck so that the instrument could be put back to original at some point in the future.

Jon

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: reggie miles
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:07 AM

Jeez, when I asked a similar question on another thread I didn't get a single response.

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: GUEST,Lynn
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:31 AM

I bought a tenor instead of a 5-string mainly because that's what I learned on initially (eons ago). I used it as a tenor (ie, playing with a pick using CGDA tuning) on my recording. Some months later I was laid up with a broken ankle. To relieve the bordom I wanted to learn some old-timey tunes on it, but played finger-style. I tuned it to open 5ths (CGCG) and started in with a modified flail - doing melody notes with a down-stroke of the index fingernail, then getting a faux-5-string effect by up-stroking with my middle finger on the high string. I knew it was 'wrong', but figured, what the heck, it's a folk instrument, right? Ever watch some of the REAL folks play fiddle - in the crook of their arms??? Sure it's got its limitations, but then so does the rest of my instrumental technique!!!

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:37 AM

Reggie, I seem to remember you asking about a plectrum banjo not a tenor. I did post a response here.

Jon

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Spartacus
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:43 AM

Everyone... Thanks for your help. I did a little research last nite, and I have an "M" style vega stamped banjo, dated around 1922-1935. It does have the "tu-ba-phone tone ring". I was up until around 3:00am playing around with different tunings. I tried some of the AEAE and ADAD tunings, but the neck and the old tuners wouldnt' really take it. I think I had the most fun with the standard CDGA tuning. Ok..last question...what (if any) effect does the adjustable screw on the support rod under the drum have on the neck. Does it have any purpose other than to keep the rod in place?

Thanks again,

Spartacus

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: reggie miles
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:53 AM

yup, that's the one and I apologize Jon you were the only one

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 10:01 AM

NP Reggie. I think perhaps the real question is whether there are any regular posters here who can advise on the plectrum banjo - the only banjo players I can think of at the moment play either 5 string or tenor.

Oh, and one more thought... Your question may stand a greater chance of being answered if you created a new thread for it.

Jon

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: reggie miles
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 10:17 AM

I thought maybe I needed to change my alias to somethin' more powerful like Hercules or Goiliath

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: reggie miles
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 02:15 AM

Jon, perhaps you're right. I guess seeing so much knowledge splashed around here, I got to thinkin' that this place could answer just about any question put to it and present every point of view on the subject. There've been only a few questions that I've ever desired help with. Not many were worthy thread material. I guess my interests were too specific and maybe I should have searched elsewhere before taxing the threads here. My inexperience with the web, other forums, search engines and sites etc. probably contributed to my misguided attempts.

Subject: RE: new tenor banjo - any tips?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:11 AM

Reggie, the Mudcat knowledge base is pretty vast but there can be gaps, even where you might not expect them - and on the other hand, find someone who can answer an obscure off topic question...

I don't know what else you have asked but I would almost certainly disagree with you over "worthy thread material". I certainly would have asked the question on the plectrum banjo in a thread on it's own - a thread titled "Help: Plectrum banjo" may just grab the attention of the right person, maybe a "passer by" but that person may not even open say a thread entitled "tenor banjo" to get to the question.

As for other banjo resources, as I mentioned before, there is the alt.banjo newsgroup. The majority of posters there are 5 string players but there are players of other types of banjo as well. The other banjo newsgroups I am aware of look to be more specialised - alt.banjo.clawhammer and alt.banjo.minstrel. If you haven't got a newsserver, you can use google's system.

Another banjo discussion group that I believe is good (I've not looked, I hate List servers) is the Banjo-L list. You can find it at http://zeppmusic.com/banjo/

Jon