Is purfling just cosmetic?

Subject: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 02:15 PM

Hello all. I've been doing some cello shopping and I've found that the cellos that are even remotely affordable have two black lines painted on rather than real purfling. This makes me wonder two things:

1. Does purfling make any real contribution to the sound/playability of a fiddle, or is it just cosmetic?

2. And even if it is just cosmetic, would you consider a painted-on purfling to be a warning that other big shortcuts have been taken in the instrument's construction, or would you consider it a legitimate way to lower the instrument's cost? I've found that with violins, only the really crappy cheap fiddles have fake purfling - but student violin prices are quite different from student cello prices.

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 02:27 PM

According to
http://www.cybozone.com/luthier/instruments/purfling.html
Purfling is used for more than aesthetics; it helps reinforce the edge grain of the thin pieces used to construct a musical instrument; it prevents splitting and checking. Most purflings are made from thin veneers of diffused porous hardwoods such as holly, or boxwood. The veneers are dyed with aniline stains or vegetable dyes to yield a rainbow of colors, selected to compliment the ornamentation of the instrument. Often times instead of simple strips, purfling can be a mosaic design that matches or contrasts with the marquetries used in the rosette

But what would I know? I only went to the web site to be sure I knew what the word meant!

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 03:08 PM

Yes, if the edge is whacked the crack will go only as far as the purfling. It also diffuses the force of the blow so that not as much force is carried into the rest of the instrument.

There was one luthier who competed with Stradivarius and his signature was that the purfling on the back would be swept around the surface of the whole back in a large, beautifully-inlaid pattern. Makers of his "school," generations later, were still copying this design, and Hardi has one of these models made in that style. One of these days I'll get him to write about it here, or maybe his Mudcat photo when posted will feature a shot of this.

~S~

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 12:47 PM

I just completed repair of a violin with a crack in the top that went right through the purfling. Having the purfling there actually complicated the repair. I am not convinced purfling helps at all, since you have to weaken the plates by cutting a groove to install the purfling. However, there is the matter of TRADITION. Probably no violin (or cello) maker would dream of violating TRADITION. So, it is probably the case that painted purfling is a sign of an inferior factory built product. But just to be sure, look inside and out for signs of good vs. poor construction: rough surfaces, misaligned fingerboards, rough linings, visible glue lines, etc. Disclaimer: I am only an amateur repair person. Al

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 06:55 PM

How does one purfle? And with whom? Or with what? (Or both...)

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Noreen
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 07:52 PM

I'll happily show you anytime, Mark...

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 08:45 PM

Hi Mark, Purfling is the band of different colored wood that is inlaid just inside the outer edge of a violin top or back. One purfles by performing the previously postulated procedure. One purfles only with one's prefered personages, or with wood. Still want to have some tunes someday? I'm already thinking about Hawaii again. Al

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:23 PM

Oooooohhh...and she sings like an angel, too!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Big John
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:30 PM

I was purfling on the moon one day, When a purfling Martian blocked my way. He said goodbye, I said cello, but I really have to go, And I purfled on my purfling way.

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:41 PM

Fascinating...the dictionary says that purfle (which means both "a border" and "to make a border") and profile have the same origin. Both are from Latin pro [forward] + filum [thread]. Go figure... Anyway, I think I prefer Noreen's version!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:47 PM

Oops, sorry, Al, that's twice I've (inadvertently) ignored you. Sure, just let me know when you're here; I'd love to play some tunes.

Aloha,
Mark

We now rejoin this thread in progress and apologize for the interruption...

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:48 PM

I believe it has a twofold purpose...to strengthen and protect the instrument on its vulnerable edges, and to beautify it. The purfling on some high end guitars is a lovely sight to see, and it seems to be quite impact resistant too (assuming the impact is not too severe).

- LH

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 04:29 AM

I thought that was how they knitted them - on plain, one purfl, two plain, two purfl.

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 04:35 AM

Hi Mark, Human perfling ... done properly, takes a skin graft from under the souls of the feet and grafts it in a thin line around your head, about a quarter inch from the hair line. Advantages... if you bump your head your scalp will be less likely to slip off... disavantages, in hot weather your head smells like your feet.
I frankly would advise against it, as it is very rare that a bump on the head results in the scalp slipping off.
Good luck and think twice about human purfling...
Larry

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 10:01 AM

My main violin has painted purfling, and sounds great. True, she isn't at all a high-end masterpiece, but she has a great, full sound. I really believe that most violins can be made to sound reasonably good with the right strings and setup. And the right person to play them. :-)

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 10:08 AM

So I take it that purfling has no relation to Rofl-ing, then....

Unless...

You ROFL so hard, you get a stitch in your side.

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: 53
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 11:12 AM

My Taylor has purfling around the sound hole.

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 12:39 PM

So is binding the same as purfling?

If you are purfled you should be safe when you ROFL, unless you really crack yourself up.

~S~

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 12:40 PM

I wish that my dog, Valdy, had purfling right over his sound hole...

- LH

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 12:58 PM

Larry, if your feet have souls I would definitely not recommend taking anything away from them. Too much negative karma. Besides, if you start purfling people you're going to run afoul of the purfle people eater...

Aloha,
Mark

Ok, I'll leave now...

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM

oops, that last line was supposed to look like this...back to HTML school for me...

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 01:13 PM

"Purfle people eater"?

Mark, you have me Rofling!

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Mar 02 - 06:52 PM

Someone should check up on Spaw... I can't believe he missed this post!!!!! Llarry

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 04:08 AM

Well, that's dispelled the purfle haze all in my brain!

'Scuse me, while I kiss the sky!

Alan

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: mooman
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 04:58 AM

It believe that, as well as being a useful luthiers' method for protecting the edge of instruments against knocks and, where at right angles to the grain, possible splitting, whilst adding aesthetic value, the real value of PURFLING is as an alternative acronym to the overused ROTFLMAO, i.e.

Pissing Underpants Rolling on the Floor Laughing In a Nightmarish Grimace

mooman

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:25 PM

Alan, isn't that, "'Scuse me, while I kiss this guy"? Oops, sorry, that belongs in the Mondegreen thread...

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: CapriUni
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:32 PM

Kiss the sky?

Kiss this guy?

I do not know these phrases! Whence do they come?

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: marty D
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:38 PM

It's JIMI! (and it IS 'kiss the sky')

marty

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 02:12 PM

Capri, in an attempt to deconfuse you... Jimi Hendrix' 1969(?) song, "Purple Haze", had a line, "'Scuse me while I kiss the sky". This is a line that's famously misheard as "'Scuse me while I kiss this guy"--in fact, a book of misheard lyrics of rock and popular songs has the latter line as its title. Misheard lyrics are also known as Mondegreens, because someone heard a line in a folk song, "Laid him on the green" as "Lady Mondegreen". If you put "Mondegreen" or "misheard" into the "filter" box on the main Mudcat forum page, and set the time for a year or more, you'll come up with a thread or two that has many many more of these.

Make sense now?

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:10 PM

That was very neatly explained Mark. Some of us would have purfled away for yonks trying to explain that.

But isn't it a great word? Sentences like "My main violin has painted purfling" have a surreal quality. Purfle passages indeed.

It sort of rhymes with careful, but I can't think of any other word. (Well, not for a full rhyme.) Oddly enough, purfling and purfled (and purfle, which I'm not too sure officially exists) are not included in the rhyming dictionary on my shelf. This is, I think, a first. (It's even got orange, which it suggests, rather optimistically, rhymes with such words as lozenge and scavenge.)

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: 53
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 11:01 PM

I must of missed something.

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 11:05 PM

"Truffle" would seve as a rhyme for "purfle", at a pinch ....

Murray

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 11:18 PM

The objective of purfling which has been omitted in the above discussion is that it is there to seal the endgrain of the softwood (top) timber, which would otherwise absorb moisture and distort, in addition to its wear-resistant properties. The modern finishing materials available render this objective superfluous, ie., if the grain is sealed, the purfling is only there to protect against knocks and for traditional cosmetic reasons. The age of the instrument therefore comes into consideration when one considers if the painted- on purfling is consequential, or just an economy. Tiny purple fishes run laughing through my fingers...

Subject: RE: Is purfling just cosmetic?
From: Marion
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 10:56 PM

Thanks a little bit, everyone.

Marion