how to be a folk star

Subject: how to be a folk star
From: poor lonesome boy
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:39 PM

Not a folk club in sight. Church talent shows, town music-fests and neighbourhood kitchens are about the only places to play 'round here, unless I'm able to travel, which I'm not. But still I have the urge to perform at a folk festival someday – just a small one. And just be an afterthough on the bill even. I just want 20 minutes in the spotlight. Do you know of any folk festivals allow for "open mic" people like me? Should there be some? Isn't that what "folk" music is all about, afterall? Your thoughts and advice please.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:42 PM

Sometimes we gotta whore ourselves out to the bars before we can 'make it' in the folk clubs mate...

Good luck eh!!

;-)

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:42 PM

Isn't "Folk Star" an oxymoron?

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:42 PM

Where are you located, plb?

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:59 PM

Ya gotta travel. A friend of mine who I think is a Star (he calls himself a 'journeyman' songwriter and musician) travels between 8 and 9 months of the year, simply to maintain his reputation. I asked why he couldn't bring that down to five or six months, so he could spend more time with his wife and critters. He detailed it out. With expenses (he won't fly, so he drives hundreds of thousands of miles) accomodations and taxes, he HAS to be on the road for the first five months for the last three to pay off.

The alternative (which I like) is to concentrate on one or two playing areas (your home base being one of them) and be content to be a 'good' musician, with a decent following. Being on the road all the time really IS a drag. I've done it and it gets awful lonesome (now THERE'S a song!)

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: poor lonesome boy
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:02 PM

expat Ottawa Valley now sitting in the lush hills of Southwestern Ontario... Woodstock to be precise, CarolC. I've got London, Kitchener and even Toronto practically at my doorstep, but also have two kids, another on the way, a full-time job and a wife who works most weekend evenings. Ya see my predikimint

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Mark Ross
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:08 PM

Remember, there are no career moves in Folk Music! We do what we do because we love the music not for the rest of it.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:13 PM

Your only hope would appear to be relatives that can babysit. Otherwise, you are going to be one hell of a musician when the kids grow up, what with all the practice you must be getting.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:17 PM

I don't know, plb, it looks like you're in a good location for open mics and song circles. Is Toronto too far for you? Some song circles are held on weekday evenings. Mudcatter Black Walnut was a good person to contact about the Toronto area song circles when I was up your way last winter.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: InOBU
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:34 PM

Keep pushing, banging your head against the wall, one or the other will give, but don't you give up, and don't shoot at being a star, be honest and committed to the truth in people's music. Cheers, mate, Larry

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:38 PM

Mark Ross is only about a 3rd correct...

;-)

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:41 PM

Larry oughta know. He just gave away, and paid the postage on, a whack of CD's to Mudcatters. Now, there's sticktoittiveness. And I'd say it'll pay off, because it's an excellent CD. I've played it for several of my friends and they all agree, it's worth the bucks. Good idea Larry... the word's getting out.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:42 PM

It seems to me that I remember going to at least one or two open mics on weekday evenings when I was up there, too. One of them was Don's Coffee House. I don't remember what town it was in, but I think it might have been somewhere near Barrie. One of the Orillia Mudcatters might be able to tell you about that one. I don't know if the Corner Coffee House in Newmarket still has an open mic or not, but that might be worth checking out if it's not too far for you.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:53 PM

whats an oxy morom?

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 06:56 PM

Oxymoron = Contradiction in terms

(well that's not exactly what it means, but it's near enough for current purposes)

Don't you have a dictionary, John?

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:03 PM

THanks Guest I have got a dicshonery but i cant find it because my house is very untidie today.thanks again.jogn

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:13 PM

"It's worth the bucks" - now that's a two-edgted compliment referring to something that didn't involve paying, gnu. And of course - and I imagine that's what you meant - it would have been worth the bucks if you'd had to buy it.

Here is a festival finder for North America that Sorcha came up with recently. I don't know about America, but most fewstivals I know of over here seem to have some kind of showcase event. Send out some emails and plan your holidays round the results. Even a family holiday - some festivals can be great for some kids.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:31 PM

Duhyeah ! It's well worth paying for. My extreme apologies if anyone took that otherwise.

Simply put, it's A#1 stuff. You should actually send Larry a few EXTRA bucks after you purchase this CD. I did.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: SeanM
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:47 PM

If you can get in on a big market (large metropolitan area), you MIGHT be able to be a local star and get some degree of notoriety before touring becomes absolutely necessary. But you'll still have to go out a few times if only to see if you appeal to other markets...

But hey, why worry about it? Just go with what works, and don't sweat it. You've already got a family and a job, so this can be a pure labor of love. That's a luxury that many of us would love to have.

M

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: poor lonesome boy
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:58 PM

Sean M ... true enough, but you know how restless muscians can get. Still, thanks. And good points all.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 08:05 PM

A folk Star is someone who one out of every ten thousand people has heard of. Enjoy your family and hone your talents wherever people need to be entertained. When your kids get a little older, you can take them with you. With any breaks, you'll reach the point where you won't lost money performing. Play for pleasure first, and all will follow. If it doesn't, you'll have had a good time playing. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 08:41 PM

Play in schools. You can be a big star there. No drunks, no smoking, good hours. This is our twenty first year in schools and the pay has been good, too.

We waited until our kids were grown up(as grown up as they're ever going to get) to start so we were free to travel some to do it. We travel in a small motorhome and sleep in a lot of school yards.

But, we have a friend who has two little ones and he plays only schools which are close enough to get to and get home every night.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: 53
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 09:20 PM

Play country.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Lucius
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 11:49 PM

See the recent lyric post "The Folkie"

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: harvey andrews
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:57 AM

A folk star is a performer who fills a large room or a pretty small theatre, does what he/she loves doing, sings the songs he/she loves singing to/with people who love the same songs whether self-written or not,tells stories that have no punch lines to people who listen and understand subtlety and who love words and melody, meets the audience at the end of the night, sells cds, signs cds, leaves a happy audience, feels happy and fulfilled themselves, and exits into a world that doesn't give them a second glance, has never heard of them, and leaves them in blessed peace without all the hassle of celebrity. In other words...it's Heaven!
And like the others say you only find it by being true to yourself, working hard,and being honest about the music you make. Expect nothing, but hope for the best.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Fortunato
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 10:03 AM

Well, PLB, I don't know what you do so this will be really general. Here's my advice,

1)If you can't be the best be different, be versatile. If you aren't an incredibly fast, techno picker, then infuse your music with influences from other genres. Seek the roots of the music you're playing and bring forward comping licks and styles that enliven your playing. An example would be, if your playing country blues, borrow from ragtime or swing. Buy the Mickey Baker books and learn some chord inversions.

2) Build your performance lyric by lyric, break by break, song by song, like a bricklayer. Study the sets of performers you wish to emulate. How do they structure their sets? What are the dynamics of the songs chosen? You've got to work the crowd.

3)Record. Listen. Get feedback, rework your songs.

4)Take lessons on your instrument. If you're so damn good nobody can teach you anything then you don't need any advice.

5)Perform

6)Face reality. I don't know any successful musicians in DC who aren't DAMN GOOD at what they do. They're either technically superior, expert crowd pleasers, or different and versatile or all three.

5)Last, and maybe your best shot, join a folklore club, society, etc. or form one. Volunteer, get on the inside work behind the scenes, then MAYBE, a chance for recognition will come, if you've done 1-4 above.

Just my opinion of course. regards, Fortunato

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: harvey andrews
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 11:43 AM

Good advice from Fortunato. The other aspect you can do nothing about if you're Canadian or American is...live in the right place. Geography is as important in many ways as talent.
I've toured in Canada enough times now to know there are musicians who are semi-pros who could do extremely well in Europe. Mr Rick Fielding would be a Super folk star for one. Rick's problem is the size of his country
I live in the Midlands of England. There are probably 40 million people within a maximum two and a half hour drive of my home. major cities are within 40 miles of each other. This makes the one night stand life a reality and I've lived it for nearly 40 years, playing first the great folk club circuit of the 60's and 70's when even small market towns had a thriving club, to the modern British circuit of folk clubs, arts centres, and village halls. It would be an impossible way of life in North America and I would have had to work a lot harder and travel a lot further for my corn.I can fully understand why extremely talented musicians over the pond don't wish to espouse this lifestyle, and my respect for those who do is boundless.
So I'm quite sure many North American acts would be at the top of the folk tree nationally, not just in their local area, if geography served them better.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 12:17 PM

Rick can drive 3-5000 miles though, without getting his feet wet Harvey. Granted it would take more than 2 1/2 hours. :) My advice would be to be born with imeasurable talent, then practise a lot. after that it's easy. OK so it LOOKS easy. Unfortunately! JohnB

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: harvey andrews
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 01:47 PM

Talent...aah, I'd forgotten talent...must be all these Pop Idols and Boy bands...and Degrees in folk music....

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Fortunato
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:04 PM

You forgot to mention a cute belly button. Perky breasts and a pushup bra might help. Hasn't done a thing for my popularity, however. Now, now, Harvey we musn't be bitter. We were young and cute once, weren't we? regards, Chance

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: sophocleese
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:06 PM

Hamilton, Festival of Friends sometime in August, has occasionally had an open stage. Its also free.

Guelph has the Hillside Festival, I don't know if they have open stages there or not. Guelph has a fair bit of music going on. Its where Stephen Fearing lives after all.

Cambridge has the Millrace Festival of Traditional Folk. They have an open stage on Saturday Night. I know of one person at least who was signed up to the festival after being heard at the open stage.

All of these are a little closer for you than Toronto would be.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:10 PM

Somehow, I'm trying to imagine the perky breasts and cute belly buttons of some of my personal "folk stars." The image of Stan Rogers in a push-up bra just ain't workin'. Thanks a lot, Chance.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Fortunato
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:36 PM

Brought to you by the friendly folks at "Folkie Fantasys Are Us."

Now, Jeri, I didn't say 'one size fits all'. How about tight leggings, peasant shirt open to the navel, long locks in a que and flashing dark eyes?

We aim to please. regards, Chance.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:49 PM

Fabio does folk? But can he sing?

Seriously (more or less) I don't think appearance has much to do with success as a FOLK musician. Many of the performers whose CDs I own are at the most, average looking, and I love 'em anyway because of their music. Looks don't hurt, and they might get somebody noticed at first, but they aren't what makes a folk performer respected, and keeps them on top. I wonder if some performers don't actually tone down their looks so people will focus on their music...

Seems to me I had a discussion about this with someone recently, about what can happen when people notice a performer for how they act (or what they look like) instead of the music they make. They make for good gossip fodder, but often folks don't take their music too seriously.

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: harvey andrews
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:14 PM

How dare you Fortunato...I was NEVER young and cute!!

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: poor lonesome boy
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 12:36 AM

thanks sophocleese ... i didn't know about those open stages because those happen to be three of the festivals I have not yet attended. maybe I'll rectify that mistake this year. (was planning on catching Guelph this summer anyway). cheers

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: InOBU
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 09:56 AM

Do you know the Smith Barney comercial, "We make money the old fashoned way WE EARN IT!" (steal it to be sure... but that's another post...)... Well, a few of us would tell ya, "Make music the old fashoned way, earn it..." ie: buy a pair of shoes that will last you, a warm coat, a good guitar case, a well phrased busking sign, hit the road, sleep in barns, travel with wild members of the opposit sex (or same sex if that's yer tastes...) to quote Bird Parker, "if you don't live it, it wont come out of your horn." Or else you'll be Randy Newman.
Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Jim Krause
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 02:40 PM

Thoughts About Being on the Road and Playing in Bars

There are aspects of going on the road that I like. And they are all conditional on whether I am with a group, or by myself. The times I have toured with a band were some of the best. I had some good conversations and made some good friends while behind the wheel. Getting paid to do what I love best was, it seemed icing on the cake.

Playing in bars on the other hand can seem like prostituting yourself. But it is a very good way to get your chops up and learn to handle a tough audience. No backing up and correcting that mistake in the guitar intro. You go on and do it as if to say "What mistake? That was improvisation." Now for the rest of the story: I don't play in bars that much anymore. The exception is the occasional open mic night. Yep, I still do 'em once in a while.
Jim

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: Fortunato
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 02:53 PM

Well, InOBU, I'm with 'Bird' on that, 'cept there's some stuff that came out of Bird's horn that I don't want to live...

Subject: RE: how to be a folk star
From: InOBU
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 04:46 PM

ANd there is stuff about playing in bars that I agree with Fortunato about... ever notice how many non smoker singers get throat cancer... made ill and sometimes worce by our audiences and our fellow band mates, every time I play in a smoke filled bar, I pray that governments will forget licencing music and ban smoking in MY workplace. Cheers and good health, Larry