children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 19 Mar 17 - 10:07 AM


Steve Shaw - PM 
Date: 19 Mar 17 - 08:39 AM 
I've just been listening to Private Passions on BBC Radio 3. The theme tune, a piece called The Wakeful Poet, ...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tnv3/episodes/player

~~~~~~~
"... In the music for the final movement, The Wakeful Poet, Chaucer himself chatters in a jaunty, innocent style."
http://www.michaelberkeley.co.uk/works/brass_quintet#music_from_chaucer

http://open.spotify.com/track/0FlfQAneIE6riP4iA2EjKi 

https://youtu.be/FIVHR_GSRUg  n.a. to me, UK

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 17 - 08:39 AM

I've just been listening to Private Passions on BBC Radio 3. The theme tune, a piece called The Wakeful Poet, composed by the programme's presenter Michael Berkeley, is strongly reminiscent of the children's taunt tune. Give it a listen!

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: EBarnacle
Date: 01 Mar 17 - 12:23 AM

So, thec question now becomes: Is the ur-music rhythm or melody?

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Feb 17 - 10:30 PM

I beg to differ - et ron ron ron petit patapon has the same rhythm, but not tune, as na na na na nerre.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: meself
Date: 28 Feb 17 - 05:08 PM

Just remembered that this was the 'tune' that was used in one of the many taunts of my childhood: "Bobby[or whoever]'s got a girlfriend!" - having a girlfriend being a cause of considerable embarrassment before the age of thirteen or so. And, with slight variation, the tune of 'Liar, liar, pants on fire!"

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Feb 17 - 02:45 PM

Thompson: Are we thinking of the same tune? I do not see any resemblance. The taunt tune in my book is sol-mi-la-sol-me; neither Malbrouck... (= For He's a Jolly Good Fellow, The Bear Went Over the Mountain, etc.) nor Liliburlero has a la in it.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Ilya
Date: 28 Feb 17 - 12:11 PM

Btw, the taunting tune is very similar (if not identical) in Russia.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Apr 14 - 05:10 AM

Come to think of it, Il etait un bergère has the same nyah nyah tune.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Apr 14 - 04:18 AM

It's part of the French children's song Malbrough s'en va t'en guerre, mocking the death of the first of the Churchills.
And there's an echo of it in Lileberlero, the loyalist song mocking the Irish.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 05:23 AM

Wow, brilliant Jack, thanks! Your whole site's great -

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Apr 14 - 01:04 AM

It was used by the boys of the Royal High School in Edinburgh to catcall the Grand Duke Nicholas of Russia on his visit in 1812. Nathaniel Gow extended it into a slow strathspey. I have Gow's stuff here (scroll down, the page is chronological):

http://www.campin.me.uk/Embro/Webrelease/Embro/03welcm/03welcm.htm

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 10:26 PM

I suspect that it's older than the human race. The earliest surviving example of language.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Journey Rocks!
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 04:26 PM

Journey's Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin' has it, too. Now it's your turn to cry. Na na na na na na na na (It repeats for a while, then stops, then starts again.)

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 02:28 AM

ne-ner ne-ner ne-nerrrrrr

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,LogosRule (This is a new name)
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:08 PM

OK, so I just found out that 2 characters say this. Grim from Billy and Mandy, and Toadette from Mario. Here's what they say: Grim: AHA! You said you deserve pie! That means you don`t deserve pie! (Sing-Song) No pie for you! Toadette: (Sing-Song) Red team's the best. (Or blue team's the best! P.S. Sorry for spamming all that Marduk crap.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Marduk
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 01:47 AM

I found them! I found them! I found my old comments! I made that one up just now. NO MORE NEJI HYUGA!

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Neji Hyuga
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 01:40 AM

I was watching PBS 1984 Split ID Yellow Text Letters Super Effects, and some guy had his own version. It goes: It's raining, it's pouring, there's a P-Head outside! It was cute!

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Neji Hyuga
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 01:32 AM

*Sigh* I sure miss singing this song, gamn it! Sheesh! I never sung this when I was little. P.S. What happend to the old comments when my name was Marduk?

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Marduk
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 02:17 PM

I know this off topic, but Marduk from Bakugan Battle Brawlers is so adorable!

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Marduk
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:26 PM

I was thinking about saying "This is P-B-S" in the same tune. I don't know if you heard of this, but I have a Furby Baby that would sing this twice, except she went "Da da da da da da" or something like that. Her name is Boo.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Marduk
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:18 PM

I sang this taunt before. In Mario Kart Wii, Baby Mario would sing this taunt if someone got hit with one of his items. It's cute! Not really much video game characters sing it. I also heard this taunt from Coco Bandicoot in Crash Nitro Kart for PS2. I still sing it nowadays. P.S. Tum tum tum tum tums!

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Marduk
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:06 PM

Same here. I said this taunt when I started in my teens. In fact, I am a teen. I was thinking about saying "I am a P-head" or "This is P-B-S" in the same melody. But I haven't sang it yet. I don't like to taunt in public. One time, I made a video on my phone, and I sang in a PBS P-head's voice, "You just got owned, you just got owned" in the same tune. P.S. Tum tum tum tum tums!

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 09:58 PM

Having read the entries on this post that remember the taunt being five syllables with the fourth one emphasized, I've sounded it out to myself and I agree that that is how i remember saying that taunt and how I have heard it said. So as a correction, instead of "nah nah nahnahnah", I should have written that taunt as "nah nah nah NAH nah." (also with the fourth syllable elongated like "NAAH".

Btw, special thanks to Guest Eliza, thanks for sharing the memories her husband told her about growing up in Ivory Coast as a Senoufo child, and singing "the same tune, "La la, la LAH la!" while pulling a rude face."

I love learning information like that. It shows in some ways that the whole world is kin.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Mike Mandaville
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 11:18 AM

The Steevie Wonder song "Living For The City" makes use of this very popular melody.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 10:16 AM

The nyaa-nyaa tune from NYC in the '50s was the same as the first two lines of "Ring around the Rosie."

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 09:31 AM

The Kindergarten Baby song was known among white kids in that period also. In Hoboken, it was interchangeable with "Baby, baby, Stick your head in gravy."

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 07:24 AM

Have just asked my husband, and am amazed that in Ivory Coast as a Senoufo child, even he used to sing the same tune, "La la, la LAH la!" while pulling a rude face. If someone was on the receiving end of this, they immediately thumped the insulter and a rare old bundle ensued! These Senoufos didn't have any contact with the West, as they were strict Muslims living in the bush in Tengrila, in the remote North. Isn't it amazing that the same taunting tune is so universal?

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 12:37 PM

I do believe that the various lyrics and arrangements have been copyrighted by a number of agencies. I think you might well need permission before you quote any more of the lyrics

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 12:28 PM

West London, late forties, we sang something more like "Nuh nuh, nuh NUH nuh" It was guaranteed to absolutely infuriate. I used to sing it at my little sister, and she always became enraged. Once, she got so furious, she kicked in a glass door to the kitchen. Our Dad walloped us both!

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 11:28 AM

Six and a half years later for one reason or another I thought of this taunt, and consequently found myself back at this thread although I forgot I had posted to it.

For the folkloric record, I should have included this demographical information in my 2005 post:

I remember (using and hearing) the taunt as I described it from my childhood [African Americans in Atlantic City, New Jersey - 1950s to 1965]. I also recall it from African Americans in Northern New Jersey (1965-1969) and African Americans in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 1969 to date.

As I mentioned in 2005, I don't recall ever hearing any African Americans say "boo boo" (or "poo poo" as Guest 26 May 09 mentioned)at the end of that taunt.

Also for the record, I definitely remember the taunt "Kindergarten baby / Stick your head" when I was growing up in Atlantic City, New Jersey in the early 1950s to 1965 [I was born in 1947]. And I've also heard Black children chant the same "Kindergarten baby" taunt in Pittsburgh over the years. If my counting of the syllables in that kindergarten taunt is correct, that line and its rhyming line each have six syllables instead of the five syllables in the "nah nah nahnahnah" taunt that I remember.

I'm sorry that I don't know how to write or read music. If I did it that would not only help me better understand some of what is written in this thread, but would help me convey how I remember this taunt sounding like.

It's likely that non-Black children in those cities also said this taunt one way or another, and maybe the same way I recall Black American children saying it. And it's not that I've only interacted with African Americans but it would be accurate to say that I've mostly interacted with African American children, teens, and adults. That's why I don't have any clear recollections of people from other races saying this taunt.

That said, I'm still interested in learning whether there are any racial/ethnic differences between how this particular taunt is said (in the same cities at the same time or in different cities).

* By the way, how is "nyah" in "nyah nyah na nyah nyah" pronounced? Is the "n" pronounced? Is it like "nah-yah" with neither syllable emphasized?

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 08:38 PM

So very, very many times when I'm looking for information about a folk song (or any other kind of song) google sends me here, and here I am again! I remember the Psychology Today article, too. The author theorized the taunt song as a kind of universal song, the first song, hard wired into our brains. He called it "The Ur-Song" (a google search lead me to two websites, one of which seemed to understand the concept: http://criticalnoise.blogspot.com/2002/02/ur-song.html and one did not: www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,953778,00.html. I started thinking about this because I was chatting with a Russian friend, and she mentioned she had picniced on the Volga. I said something about The Volga Boatmen (the opening melody is a very simple version of this tune - G - E - B - E) she was unfamiliar with the song - she's young and listens to Beyonce and Shakira! As we chatted, I started realizing I had the opportunity to test the idea of the unversality of the tune, and I sent her links to some examples. She was unfamiliar with it.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 02:28 AM

What does this nonsense even mean? Like, what's the origin?

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 09 - 01:54 AM

"BTW, the taunt that I remember doing and still hear African American children say is more like "Nah nah nahnahnah."

I've never added or heard anyone else {African American} add a "boo" at the end of this taunt. Of course, this doesn't mean that there are no African Americans who add "boo" to Nah nah nahnahnah {or however it is said}. What it means is that no Black kids I know or heard have done it. I'm referring here to African American children living in all or predominately Black neighborhoods."

Late to the party here, but the first time I heard anybody in real life (not in a book or on TV, I mean to say) add a boo-boo (actually a poo-poo) was my (biracial) niece.

I'm white, in NYC. Growing up I said "nyah nyah na nyah nyah". Starting in my teens (so about a decade ago) I started hearing teens affecting kid speech going "na na na na na" instead.

And then we all grew up, and the next thing I know my little five - no, make that six now - year old niece is teasing the kids on the block with "nanny nanny poo poo" and correcting ME! But I don't know where she got her version from. Her parents are unlikely to indulge in children's taunts, and her school is a bit of a rarity and genuinely mixed - in her class of 24 you can divide it fairly evenly between black kids, white kids, and Hispanic kids. There's even a sizeable amount of other biracial (black and white, that is) children there, as well as a few Arab and Asian children (though not as many as I'd expect, given our neighborhood). (It's a very small school though, just opened this year, so we'll see if this keeps up in future years.) So she could have gotten it from *anybody*, you know? It might still not be a commonly done thing with most African American children except in her school.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: EBarnacle
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:29 PM

I believe the reference I made about 2 years ago on Lady Hillary's machine refers to a statement in Frazier's Golden Bough.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 12:20 PM

Can anyone point me to actual writings by Kodaly on this universal chant?

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 02:42 PM

What I know very little about music theory and structure, and wondering if someone here can weigh in on this question:

Is any connection between this children's taunt tune and African American field hollers {USA Southern slavery}.

I've found the Internet offerings on field hollers to be very disappointing. I've found one or two line statements that say that these field hollers pre-date the blues, but little else.

Were these hollers tonal utterings and [usually] not words? Maybe that's why there are so few examples cited.

However, I don't get the sense that the children's taunt is call & response, and I seem to remember reading that one field holler would evoke a responding field holler from another person so maybe they were a form of call & response.

Also, is there a connection between this children's taunt and tonal language? And if so, what is the taunt saying {"That's what you get?" or "It serves you right?" or something else, but what else?

BTW, the taunt that I remember doing and still hear African American children say is more like "Nah nah nahnahnah."

I've never added or heard anyone else {African American} add a "boo" at the end of this taunt. Of course, this doesn't mean that there are no African Americans who add "boo" to Nah nah nahnahnah {or however it is said}. What it means is that no Black kids I know or heard have done it. I'm referring here to African American children living in all or predominately Black neighborhoods.

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone else posting here has noted any racial differences in the way this taunt is spoken.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 02:21 PM

How about that fairly universal Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo often chanted on a rising scale by the cued studio audience of stupid TV sit coms.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,john canale
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 01:09 PM

Queen's "We are the champions" has it,
Waitresses "I know what boys like" has it too.

But just when and where did the nyah-nyah taunt originate??

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: GUEST,Jack Horvath
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 12:21 PM

Wow. Very interesting.

Sly and the Family Stone use this taunt in Everyday People.
"There is a yellow one that won't accept the black one that won't accept the red one that won't accept the white one."

Pat Metheny also uses it as the recurring motif in "Last Train Home."

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Marje
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 03:37 PM

I remember reading or hearing something about this tune once. It was along the lines that the descending third (in music that uses the Western scale)is evocative because it points you in the direction of the "home" keynote (do) but doesn';t actually take you there. Somehow this catches the attention more than, say, a major third would, as this would take you right home and be less interesting.

Recently there was a radio programme about the composition of Somewhere Over the Rainbow, and it related how they were stuck for a middle section for the tune, and then they thought of that falling minor third that you'd use for calling a dog, repeated, and they'd got it.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 02:36 PM

I see England, I see France,
I see ______'s underpants!

Hundreds of them- anything you want to say, really. And in the OLD version of "A Tisket, A Tasket," (before it became a pop song) the first line used the tune also, as well as the second.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Cool Beans
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 01:48 PM

The little riff also shows up as "Pay me, oh pay me'' in "Pay Me My Money Down" and its pop knock-off "Cindy, Oh Cindy."

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Lady Hillary
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:52 AM

There was an ethnomusicologist [I forget the name] about 100 years ago who asserted that the Nyah, Nyah melody is the only one common to all human societies, implying that it may be genetically built in. EBarnacle on Lady Hillary's Machine

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:45 AM

I remember hearing something like this in a children's song:

It's raining, it's pouring;
The old man is snoring.
Bumped his head
And he went to bed
And he couldn't get up in the morning.


If you follow this link and click on the highlighted text, you will hear the audio:

It's raining it's pouring

Jenny

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: alison
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 03:54 AM

Queen used it for the chorus of "We are the champions" - nyah nyah nyah nyah na

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: BK Lick
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 06:25 PM

Some folks sing "na, na na, na na na, na..." in "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down."

          —BK

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 01:00 PM

Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah, skithery idle doodle didle do di da
Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah, skithery idle doodle didle da.

Goodbye Mushin Durkin sure I'm sick and tired of workin'
No more I'll dig the praties, and no longer I'll be fooled
As sure as me name is Barney I'll be off to Californy
Where instead of diggin' praties, I'll be diggin' lumps of gold.

Nyah nyah etc.

Authentic chorus collected from an LP

John

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 11:58 AM

Dig The Watersons' singing of dateless English "A soul, a soul, a soulcake - pease good missus a soulcake" on "Frost & Fire." It's the nyaah nayaah tune, that part anyway.

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Janie
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 11:58 AM

I think O'Meara may be onto something. I remember the first time I heard my son sing that taunt. I wondered at the time if was innate (not mention inane), or part of the collective unconscious, because I was pretty sure he had not been exposed to it otherwise. It was before he started pre-school, he had little exposure to other children, and we do not have a TV from which he might have heard it.

I also wonder if the na/nayh part comes in because that is the easiest sound to enunciate with a sneer on one's face. Try it on your spouse and you will see just what I mean! (and so will your spouse)

Janie

Subject: RE: children's taunt tune: nyah nyah, na nyah nyah
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:38 AM

GUEST< I don't believe the intent was to say that it went back to Roman times as sol-fa, but that the tune went back, and that, considering it under sol-fa, it fell on certain notes. Two subjects.

Dave Oesterreich