BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida

Subject: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: SharonA
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 10:36 AM

Please note: This is NOT a song challenge! Just FYI. As several people said about the crematory in Noble, Georgia, let the buyer beware (or, in this case, the buyer's survivors)....


Widower Sues Over Embalming of Wife Without His Permission
From the MIAMI HERALD (Posted on Tue, Apr. 02, 2002):

A widower has sued Lynn University, a mortuary and a body removal company, saying his wife was embalmed without his permission or knowledge by the university's mortuary science students.

''When we began looking at this, it became obvious we were looking at the tip of a very big iceberg,'' said David Charlip, attorney for Jeffrey Post, whose wife, Madeline, was embalmed without his permission. ``Most of the people out there are unaware this was going on.''

The embalming violated Post's Jewish faith, according to the lawsuit. ''There will be no closure now,'' said Post of North Lauderdale. ``If you are embalmed or tattooed, you are denied the privilege of seeing God. My wife will never rest in peace.''

Charlip said he filed the suit last week in Broward County Court, based on the possibility that more than 600 bodies were fraudulently delivered to Lynn University beginning in the mid-1990s. The suit seeks class-action status. Officials at Lynn University, a 2,000-student private school in Boca Raton, declined to comment Monday, citing pending litigation, spokeswoman Carol Mandel said.

Post's wife died Nov. 25, 2000, of cancer. In the suit, Post said his wife made arrangements, before her death, to be cremated by Levitt-Weinstein Memorial Chapels. Instead of being cremated immediately, the suit says, Madeline Post's body was taken to Lynn University and embalmed, against Jewish tradition, then delivered to Levitt-Weinstein. Her ashes were returned to Jeffrey Post three weeks later.

''They sent me a letter saying that my wife had been taken to Lynn University and embalmed,'' Post said. ``It's awful. They are a Jewish funeral home. This shouldn't have happened.''

Levitt-Weinstein, a funeral home business based in Cincinnati and part of the Loewen Group of Funeral Chapels, issued a statement Monday saying Professional Transport took Madeline Post's body to Lynn ``without our knowledge or consent, moved the remains of a client to Lynn University for embalming prior to cremation without prior authorization from the family.'' The funeral home said it informed state regulators immediately when it learned what happened. It said no other bodies it handled were taken by Professional Transport to Lynn.

Professional Transport did not return phone calls Monday. The company is owned by Joe Damiano, who is facing criminal charges and civil suits for his alleged business practices. Damiano is set to be tried on felony charges next month for attempting to open a crematorium under a false name. In addition, the State Department of Business and Professional Regulations is suing Professional Transport for another unauthorized embalming involving Lynn University.

In 1995, following a state inspection, Professional Transport was cited for improperly tagging human remains, a malfunctioning body freezer and several other problems. The company has been in the middle of several other controversies in the past, including charges that drivers hauled one body in a pickup truck and stole jewelry from a corpse.

According to the lawsuit, Professional Transport Systems Inc. began undercutting the competition in 1994 by slashing cremation prices to $75. Professional Transport received the majority of Miami-Dade County's indigent cremations and a large portion of the cremation business from funeral homes, such as Levitt-Weinstein. The funeral home paid $75 a corpse. But the bodies made a detour to Lynn University, according to the lawsuit, where Professional Transport was paid $110 per body.

The low price for transporting corpses should have raised eyebrows, Charlip said. ''When Levitt-Weinstein was asked why it retained the company, they said it was because they do it cheaper than we can do it,'' Charlip said.

Florida law makes it illegal for a licensed company to take possession of a corpse without having written permission from a legally authorized person. The law also makes it illegal to embalm a deceased human body without having permission from a legally authorized person.

''I don't know how long she had to lay there with students touching her, poking her,'' Jeffrey Post said. ``I heard they videotape the embalming. It's a nightmare. There is no dignity, no respect.''

The bodies ''were mutilated as students ruptured organs, injected arteries and further desecrated the remains of said individuals as they learned embalming techniques,'' according to the lawsuit. The driver stated they would ''take bodies between three to five times a week to Lynn University,'' Charlip said.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 12:07 PM

And why exactly is it illegal for us to inter our own dead if we choose? This is obscene.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Peg
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 12:19 PM

probably because of supposed public health risk, Sinsull; but actually it's that the mortuary business has such a racket going they keep us all addicted to it by pumping us full of misinformation (like bodies must be embalmed, cremated, buried in airtight coffins, etc.) and of course there is a whole comfort thing that goes with some official types in suits handling all the "arrangements" which grieving people are reluctant to deal with...

I agree; why can't we wrap our loved ones in clean muslin and bury them six feet down in our gardens or in a spot designated for such a thing? what's the harm? All those airtight coffins means the bodies aren't actually decaying naturally (yuck) and soon there wil be no room for everyone. It is a subject the pagan community is interested in, as far as options we might have.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 12:31 PM

I agree that the reason is probably to do with health risks (and of course to ensure no foul play has taken place). This no reason why this should stop anyone burying their own dead. There is quite a strong, but low-key, movement in the UK that assists you with burying your own dead - see here for example You can get cheap bio-degradable coffins and so forth. I, for one, would rather be buried cheaply in high-quality cardbox box than in an expensive lined coffin. I am horrified by the way the funeral directors multinationals like SCI have formed a near-monopoly and use what are basically high-pressure sales techniques which exploit peoples emotions at such times.

About the only real defence for the current approach is that 'the system' can ensure everything is done properly - and it is clearly failing in that duty.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 12:55 PM

Having just moved house I can imagine ....quiet cul de sac, two bedrooms ,garage, 15 bodies under the patio -it's not a selling point is it?

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 01:23 PM

Linda: its not the bodies under the patio that's the problem, its the two bedrooms, garage, etc. In the UK, ex-churches and chapels sell for a fortune as houses with 'character'! (Though I admit the estate agents/realtors do not stress the bodies...)

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 01:25 PM

Linda, that problem occurs in long-settled places. Santa Fé, my home town, became the local center of government in 1610 and was settled even earlier. It had been an Indian pueblo before that. Grave depressions appeared in yards all over the area, where there had formerly been small or family cemeteries, and over which housing spread. We had one plot in our backyard (adjacent to the ruins of an old colonial church); it became the center of our asparagus patch. When I was a teenager, I had the skull of one of these "garden relics." I remember when they dug and gathered the bones from the church yard. They were tossed into a large wooden bin and eventually taken by the Archdiocese and planted somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 01:48 PM

Just last week, I drove by an old decrepit cemetary not more than an acre big. The stones were all in disarray and there were homes next to it and across the road. My comment was that I couldn't live there without tidying up the place out of simple respect. It would give me a sense of peace and satisfaction to keep the cemetary in shape.

I had planned to be cremated. With these latest horror stories, I am beginning to believe that the only way that can be assured is with a giant bonfire in the garden. I do like the idea of a cardboard coffin. I have spent my entire life living comfortably with hand me down furniture. It would be ridiculous to rot in a $10,000 coffin.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 02:04 PM

Being interested in genealogy, the names and dates that can be discerned should be copied and sent to a genealogy website. In the old cemetery I referred to, all the data from the few remaining crosses were lost.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 02:47 PM

Actually, I have recently moved and my former home backed onto the city cemetery -so it was highly likely that it was more than a bag of John Innes No 1 fertilizing my begonias. My ex husband and I had a pact -first one to go got catapulted over the garden fence to save on funeral costs! Funnily enough I used to walk the dog at midnight in the alleyway between the cemetery fence and my back gate and never gave it a passing thought. Apart from the odd owl hoot it was dead quiet!! (groan!)

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 03:23 PM

Sheesh....

All this hoopla over a dead lump of meat...

May as well just gather 'em all up, harvest whatever organs you can from 'em, and the rest... bury it under the prairie farmland... we need those phosphates for growing crops to feed our overgrown population!

If we're gonna recycle, let's get SERIOUS about it...

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: SharonA
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 04:18 PM

Jeffrey Post, the widower in this case, is quoted as saying, "`If you are embalmed or tattooed, you are denied the privilege of seeing God."

Somehow, I can't see anybody's god or God refusing a person entry into his or her heaven because some unscrupulous guy embalmed the person's body without permission. "So sorry; I know it wasn't your fault but I still can't let you in. Rules are rules and all that." Sheesh.

Does this mean that Jews believe that none of their brethren who had numbers tattooed on them by the Nazis before and during World War II are allowed to "see God"???

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: GUEST,Just Amy
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 04:36 PM

As the granddaughter of an undertaker, I am having myself creamated and put in a niche in a wall in Tupperware - hard plastic & sealable.

What I think is terrible is that you cannot mix animal and human remains in California. So, what am I going to do with the dog?

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: SharonA
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 04:40 PM

Will a smaller Tupperware container fit into the same niche?

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 04:48 PM

Get a good friend to collect both sets and mix them later. Who would ever know? If Dr. Mark happens along, he might know the answer to the Jewish question. I think I know the answer, but am not sure enough without checking with sources.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 04:50 PM

Definitive answer on tattoos from Ask the Rabbi

"No, it's not true. This seems to be a widespread misconception, and many people have asked us this question.

The Torah explicitly forbids a Jew from getting a tattoo: The verse says "Don't put hypodermic writing in your flesh, I am G-d." (Leviticus 19:28)

So, we see that getting a "decorative" tattoo is considered a sin for a Jew. But it doesn't disqualify him from being buried in a Jewish cemetery.

Rabbi Chanoch Teller relates the story of a young man from a non-religious upbringing who returned to traditional observance of Judaism. Remaining from his former lifestyle was a tattoo which he carefully kept hidden under his shirtsleeves.

Before Yom Kippur, this young man went to the mikveh, the ritual bath, as is the custom. Try as he might, he couldn't hide his tattoo from the others at the mikveh. His embarrassment was noticeable. Then, an elderly Jew approached him: "Don't be embarrassed," said the old man as he held up his arm to show the numbers tattooed there by Nazis. "I also have a tattoo.""

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 04:52 PM

From the same site, on cremation:

"According to Jewish law, one should not "sit shiva" (observe Jewish mourning rites) for someone who was cremated voluntarily, nor is one obliged to bury their ashes. You will not be able to properly mourn for her, and no kaddish will be said for her. This may have an impact. In addition, the body of a voluntarily cremated person is not liable for resurrection; this is not so much because of the physical impediment, but rather in line with the concept that one who doesn't believe in resurrection will not experience it."

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: SharonA
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 05:13 PM

...so why is this guy so worried about the "violation of [his] faith" by the unwanted embalming, when the cremation that he and his wife wanted makes her ineligible for resurrection according to that faith? I don't get it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Amos
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 05:22 PM

None of this foofarah about cast-off bodies make sense. Imagine if people developed such madcap mandates about their cast-off underwear or their broken-down cars? "I can't get a new car until I have wrapped my old one up in white nylon and buried it in at least 20 feet of soil according to the Gospel of Saint Michigan". "I can't get to heaven unless my corpse is re-clothed in clean undies, because God hates a skidmark...."

Gyamme a break, folks. Ashes and dust shouldn't be glamorized just because life is a little hard to face up to! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 05:23 PM

I wondered that too, Sharon. I think there is another law about amputated limbs, surgically removed parts, etc. Seems to me they must either be buried properly or saved and buried with the body. Jewish law does prohibit embalming, but seems to me the cremation has negagted any issue.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Cremation Debacle in Florida
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Apr 02 - 05:35 PM

Amos, Don't you mean "just because death is a little hard to face up to?"

Amy - there is the story of the little old lady who specified the dress she was to be cremated in. She had sewn the ashes of her pets into the hem. I have a friend who is in the hem of the Metropolitan Opera House Curtain - at least until they clean or replace it. Hemsare handy...I once found a lost contact lens tucked away in mine.