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Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?

DigiTrad:
THE PARISH OF DUNKELD


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: The Parish of Dankeld (2) (closed)
Tune Name: Parish of Dunkeld (3)
Battle o Dunkeld (4)


John in Hamilton 12 Apr 02 - 01:50 PM
Scabby Douglas 15 Apr 02 - 04:42 AM
GUEST,Philippa 15 Apr 02 - 05:49 PM
GUEST,Irish Sergeant 15 Apr 02 - 06:15 PM
Malcolm Douglas 15 Apr 02 - 07:55 PM
GUEST,Billy 16 Apr 02 - 12:42 AM
mack/misophist 16 Apr 02 - 03:11 AM
greg stephens 16 Apr 02 - 09:53 AM
Teribus 18 Apr 02 - 04:37 AM
GUEST,wullie 18 Apr 02 - 06:01 PM
Scabby Douglas 19 Apr 02 - 05:09 AM
GUEST,Philippa 19 Apr 02 - 04:55 PM
GUEST,susanne (skw), still on holiday 27 Apr 02 - 09:56 AM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Oct 03 - 12:59 PM
Joe Offer 25 Oct 03 - 04:08 AM
GUEST 25 Oct 03 - 12:09 PM
JohnInKansas 24 Mar 04 - 09:10 PM
GUEST,Highlandsun 16 Jan 11 - 04:35 PM
Stewart 16 Jan 11 - 04:53 PM
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Subject: Origins: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: John in Hamilton
Date: 12 Apr 02 - 01:50 PM

Hi, I've recently been learning the song "Parish of Dunkeld", and came to wonder what the story was behind this song, and if it happened at all. My best guess is that it reflected a period of anarchy, taken advantage of by the people of Dunkeld during the '45 rebellion. Has anyone any further insight?

John


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 04:42 AM

I wondered about this. The most prominent church in Dunkeld is (and would have been) the Cathedral.

I found this on the web:

http://www.heartlander.scotland.net/gallery/..%5Cdac%5Cbook_Story_15.htm

An earlier Bishop, James Bruss (Bruce), appointed to the See in 1441, was sadly troubled with the Struan cateran "Robert Reoch Macdonoquhv," who was a scourge to the church and caused "plunder the church lands of Little Dunkeld." It has been suggested that it might have been these godless invaders and not the law-abiding parishioners who are thus alluded to in the local rhyme so often quoted in derision—

I think that the idea of it being related to aftermath of the '45 fits... There's a verse that mentions Geordie and Charlie.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Cheers

Steven


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 05:49 PM

I have a recording by Andy M Stewart and his sleevenotes begin "The most outrageous true story I have ever come across in any song!"

From the Cantaria website: "Andy writes about this song: Supposedly a true story ,but possibly occurring at Kinkel in Perthshire rather than in Dunkel' (we often drop the d ). Finding the regime under the Church and it's "fire and brimstone" minister far too rigid and strict for their tastes, the fun-loving inhabitants of this little Perthshire village got together one day--and hung him! They silenced the church bell and installed a large whisky-still in the church. Thus fortified and with McDonald their piper blasting away from the pulpit, their Sundays were transformed into a series of tremendous Ceilidhs. I set the words to the old Jacobite air 'Over the water to Charlie'."

Last year I downloaded lyrics from another source (don't know the URL) which had this information - "Tune: Bonny Dundee Note: Published in A North Country Garland, 1824"
is that where the tune Bonnie Dundee is published or the lyrics Parish of dunkeld. perhaps Malcolm Douglas will know??


do any of you recall a drinks commercial which featured a similar theme?


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: GUEST,Irish Sergeant
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 06:15 PM

Lovely song. If it didn't happen, it should have! Neil


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Apr 02 - 07:55 PM

Bruce Olson is probably the man for this, but I can tell you (courtesy of Steve Roud's Folk Song Index, where it is given Roud number 13081) that James Maidment's North Countrie Garland (1824) included a song called Oh What a Parish, which is presumably the one being discussed here. It also appeared in Ford's Vagabond Songs and Ballads (vol.2, 1901) and in Andrew Crawfurd's collection; so far as I can tell without having seen any of the books concerned, all these examples were texts only, with no tune(s) given.


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 12:42 AM

One of Andy's many brilliant ad-libs is recorded on Silly Wizard's video "Silly Wizard Live At Center Stage" when Phil Cunningham (on accordion) makes a very obvious mistake on the tune in the break between the verses and instead of singing the ensuing chorus as "Oh, what a parish, a terrible parish. Oh, what a parish is that of Dunkeld. They hangit their minister, drowned their presenter. Dung doon the steeple and fuddled the bell" Andy sings, "Oh, what a parish, a terrible parish. Oh, what a parish is that of Dunkeld. They hangit their minister, shot their accordionist! Dung doon the steeple and fuddled the bell!" It is about all he can do to try and hold in the laughter until the end of the song. What a band!


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 03:11 AM

I always thought the words were "puddeled" the bell; which means 'melted down for the metal'.


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Apr 02 - 09:53 AM

Silly Wizard often comes up in threads.For thosewho like "whatever happened to old-s-and-so questions", just to let you know that guitarist ordon Jones is alive and well and running Harbourtown Records, which the Boat Band (my outfit) record with.


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Apr 02 - 04:37 AM

Don't know if this is any way connected to the song, but during the "Glorious Revolution" an action was fought at Dunkeld (1689) between Covenanter troops (Cameronians, a presbyterian sect - as opposed to Clan Cameron) and Jacobite forces. The Cameronians holed up in the church and successfully fought off the Jacobites. In doing so they ran out of ammunition and stripped the lead off the church roof to melt down to make bullets.


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: GUEST,wullie
Date: 18 Apr 02 - 06:01 PM

I don't know about this song being true but Dougie Mac lain has a fantastic pub there. He might Know the answer I'll ask next time I'm up there. Wullie


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 19 Apr 02 - 05:09 AM

Well - bear in mind that Dougie was in Silly Wizard, so he might know the same answer as Andy M Stewart

Cheers

Steven


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 19 Apr 02 - 04:55 PM

bear in mind Andy M Stewart's suggestion that this happened elsewhere than Dunkeld. "possibly occurring at Kinkel in Perthshire"
The date of a publication of the song may help some ambitious soul who wishes to plough through public record office, etc looking for information on the actual event.


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: GUEST,susanne (skw), still on holiday
Date: 27 Apr 02 - 09:56 AM

Philippa s info is what I also gleaned from Robin Laing s book on whisky (going with his CD The Angel s Share). Just before I bought it I had been up to Dunkeld and asked the lady in the souvenir shop outside the Cathedral about the song. She had never heard of it, and when I quoted the chorus to her she quite understood why. Still, she smiled and said she d ask about it. I also went to Dougie MacLean s pub, the Taybank Hotel, very cosy, and Dougie even came in one night, but only canned music till Friday nights - guess by who!


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 12:59 PM

The DT text implies that it is taken from Maidment's North Countrie Garland (not "Country" as stated there), but I don't think it can have been; at least, not directly. Spellings and words have been changed (Maidment has "in our Britain" in the final verse, which in the DT has become "a' of Scotland" for some reason) and the third verse there is not in Maidment; who commented, incidentally, " The Editor has not, until recently, been able to procure any more than the first stanza, or rather the Chorus, of this extremely spirited production. He is ignorant of the circumstances which gave rise to the Song, no popular tradition on the subject having hitherto reached him."

The example in Emily Lyle, ed., Andrew Crawfurd's Collection of Ballads and Songs (Scottish Text Society vol. II 1996, no. 171 p. 133) is the chorus only:

O WHAT A PARISH

Drounit the minister
Hangit the precentor
Burnit their Bibles
And drank the kirk bell
O what a parish a parish a parish
O what a parish was Dunkell

Crawfurd had this (probably some time beteen 1826 and 1828) from "a Mr Strathern, a manufacturer in Paisley". Crawfurd indicates that it, and Caw Hawkie, which follows, "were ultimately derived from the town of Paisley and the village of Kilmacolm, both in Renfrewshire".

Lyle refers also to a chapbook text which includes the chorus but is apparently otherwise different.


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Oct 03 - 04:08 AM

There's an entry in the Traditional Ballad Index, but not much of an entry. Malcolm posted the pertinent information above.
-Joe Offer-

O What a Parish (The Parish of Dunkeld)

DESCRIPTION: "O what a parish, a terrible parish, O what a parish is that o' Dunkeld, They hangit their minister...." After rebelling against the organized church, the people turn the site into a meeting place; the singer wishes that all parishes saw such fellowship
AUTHOR: Adam Crawford ?
EARLIEST DATE: 1904 (Ford)
KEYWORDS: clergy humorous execution friend party
FOUND IN: Britain(Scotland)
REFERENCES (2 citations):
Ford-Vagabond, (Robert Ford, Vagabond Songs and Ballads of Scotland (one-volume edition, 1904)) pp. 217-218, "O What a Parish" (1 text)
DT, PARDUNK*
Roud #13081
Notes: Ford suspects that this song was originally written not of Dunkeld but of Kinkell, where he claims events similar to this actually took place. He offers no dates, however. - RBW
File: FVS217

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2003 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 03 - 12:09 PM

Last I heard Dougie had sold the Taybank and last time I was there there was music every night (an tha were after Dougie had left)


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 09:10 PM

This thread may deal with a question posted in FAQ?????

Joh


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: GUEST,Highlandsun
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 04:35 PM

Looks pretty certain that it happened, but the actual parish was Kinkell, not Dunkeld.

http://www.scotland247.co.uk/innerpeffray-library2.htm

http://books.google.com....


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Subject: RE: Parish of Dunkeld-Did it happen?
From: Stewart
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 04:53 PM

Parish of Dunkeld
No, probably not the one.

Also, as someone else said above,
when I asked the lady in the visitor's center in Dunkeld
about the song, she had no idea what I was talking about.

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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