What mandolin do you play?

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 03:59 PM

The cheapest solid-top A-style from the Hobgoblin catalogue, which ain't too bad. Fitted with a Fishman mandolin pickup for stage use.

Also a cheap Ozark Flatiron, not subtle, easy to play or always in tune, but very loud in sessions.

Somewhere in the loft I have a cheap A-style electro-acoustic with the top rather badly sunk. One of these days I'm going to take the neck and electrics and make a solid-bodied electric mandolin out of it..

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 02:51 AM

I still don't know what ' power player ' means.

eric

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 03:52 AM

Eric
try googling "power player" and you realise its a pretty meaningless phrase still I came across this

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: nickp
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 04:28 AM

I have an A style made for me about 10 years ago by David Wright from the wilds of Devon (well, not far from Exeter). It has a sycamore back which looks beautiful and spruce front with maple sides and neck. I love it. It's been refretted 3 times and had a few 'dings' retouched but still looks and sounds stunning.

When I want a different sound I also have a Gibson A4 circa 1917, Handel tuners, original bridge but missing the scratchplate.

Currently both have GHS "silk and steel" strings which I really like and are very easy to play although they are a touch quiet. The next change for the 'new' one will be D'Addario J75s - just a fraction heavier than the more common J74s. The Gibson will probably stay with the GHS.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 08:35 AM

So astro, what exactly is a ' power player ' ?

eric

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: astro
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:29 PM

And a fine fiddle player Sharon G is...she had a great concert where she displayed her talents at an historic chapel in a great neighborhood of Tucson this last year...though I haven't heard her play the mandolin.

Eric, a power player is not a scientific term, just means one of many very good players....just a throwaway term...I am far from starting new terminology, just starting a new life in music...and am enjoying it.


Astro in Tucson and am heading off to LA with Desert Dancer....hope to find some good contra dancing there this weekend and to check the apartment....

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Scorpio
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 11:05 PM

Still looking for any info about this one, my first mando, 40 bucks from a friend: Stamped 'Wilelm Krüse Markneukirchen', reportedly about 70 years old. It's a flatback, A-style, offset kidney-shaped sound hole, pickguard looks like cowhorn, but can't be 'cos it's too big and in one piece, position markers look like aluminium! Really beat up, but bags of volume, and good to learn on.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Ernest
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 02:09 AM

Scorpio: try googling for "Wilhelm Kruse Markneukirchen" In on of the hits a empoyee of the Markneukirchen Musical instruments museum claims that Kruse was a dealer, not a manufacturer.

Oh....my mando is a Martin backpacker.

Best
Ernest

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 02:42 AM

Ah now I understand Astro, it's what we here in the UK call ' meaningless bullshit '

eric

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: GUEST,Doc
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:16 PM

What do you think of the James Docy.
Tone, playability, etc, comparable to?

Thanks.........

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Marilyn
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:55 PM

I have recently bought a Fylde Octavius mandola like this one:

Fylde octavius mandola

It is what is called an octave mandolin in America; often called an octave mandola here but I don't really like either name. Since the word mandolin means small mandola is seems silly to call it an octave mandolin which would mean 'big small mandola', but calling it an octave mandola is even worse because it definitely isn't an octave below a mandola, it's an octave below a mandolin.

I believe the strictly correct name is a tenor mandola because it's the tenor member of the mandola family but, if you say tenor mandola to most people here they think you mean the normal sized mandola (which is the alto member of the family - not the tenor).

So, even though I'm fairly certain that tenor mandola is the strictly correct name for it, I tend to call it an octave mandolin (and cringe when I say it) because at least people then know what to expect!

Anybody got any thoughts about this? I have done some research on this but not enough to be positive that I'm right!

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: mandotim
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:19 PM

Hi Marylin; there are lots of arguments about terminology, but the best rule of thumb is to initially follow the violin family, as the mandolin family correspond closely to this. Mandolin orchestras still exist, having been very popular in the 1930s and 40s.

Mandolin/violin; tuned GDAE
Mandola/Viola; tuned CGDA a fifth below the mandolin/violin
Mandocello/Cello; tuned CGDA an octave below the mandola/viola
Mandobass/Double Bass; Tuned EADG, waaaay down there!

It starts to get complicated when you build in some 'hybrids'. What you have is (I think) an Octave mandolin, tuned GDAE an octave below the mandolin. This is sometimes (confusingly) called a mandola, or sometimes a tenor mandola, or even an octave mandola, which it isn't. To further complicate things, some people put lighter strings on a mandocello and tune it GDAE, making it an octave mandolin with a mandocello body. Still with me?
Ok; still more people take an Octave mandolin like yours, and instead of having four pairs of strings with each pair tuned in unison, the two bass pairs are octaves, similar to a 12 string guitar. This is usually known as a bouzouki. (or Irish bouzouki, to distinguish it from the Greek original, which often had only three courses of strings.) This can be tuned GDAE, but other tunings are often used for particular playing styles; GDAD and ADAD are common ones. Some of these have a guitar type body, and are known as a Bouzar. Bouzoukis often have a longer scale length than octave mandolins, and are very good for mixed chordal/melodic accompaniment.
(Takes deep breath...) There are also instruments with five courses of paired strings. One sort is a mandolin with an extra bass course, tuned CGDAE, producing a mandolin that can also be played as a mandola. These are rare, as the bass string on such a short scale length tends to be a bit floppy. The second major sort is a long scale instrument with five courses, some of which may be octave pairs like the bouzouki. These are usually known as Citterns, and tunings for these are many and varied, though they tend to be around the same register as bouzoukis.
That's a potted description; don't get me started on Cuatros, bandolims, tiples and waldzithers!
Enjoy the Fylde; Roger Bucknall makes fine instruments.
Tim

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: mandotim
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:24 PM

My apologies Marilyn; I spelled your name wrong!
Tim

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Tangledwood
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:41 PM

Thank you for the explanation Tim, very interesting. For a while I've been trying to find out how to visually identify the mando family of instruments when seen on stage. As your identification is based on strings and tunings am I right in now thinking that reliable visual identification isn't possible?

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Marilyn
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:25 AM

Thanks, Tim. My Fylde is a really lovely instrument; a very fine classical guitarist friend of mine rates it highly and loves to borrow it (well he would - he chose it for me!!)

I bought a good instrument believing that I would be more likely to make progress quicker on it than on a cheap one. It sounds so good, even with my beginner efforts, that I can't put it down, so the theory works for me.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:40 AM

Hi Tangledwood; visual identification can be difficult; for example, Steve Knightley of Show of Hands plays a large bodied, teardrop shaped instrument with four courses of strings. He refers to it as a mandocello, and it has a large enough body for that purpose; but he has lighter strings on it (the bass C strings on a true mandocello can be as thick as .075" !) and he tunes it either GDAE or GDAD as a rule; in other words, he's using it as an octave mandolin. Scale length is another way of identifying; long scales tend to be bouzoukis or mandocellos, slightly shorter tend to be octave mandolins, shorter again with a smaller body are usually mandolas or mandolins.
Marilyn; it's always a good idea to buy an instrument that's better than you are a player, so you can 'grow' into it. A well made and well set-up instrument also prevents bad habits (like the 'death grip' on the neck caused by a nut that is too high) that are difficult to break later. In my case, there is a huge choice of instruments that are better than my playing!
Regards
Tim

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:05 AM

I have the same Fylde as Marilyn, designed for GDAE tuning. Roger Bucknall told me the correct terminology is 'Octave Mandolin' which makes complete sense - it's mandolin tuning, but one octave down.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Tangledwood
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 06:53 PM

Thanks Tim.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 07:49 PM

I play an Arnold Hoyer mandolin. I don't know when it was made, but I bought it (used) 45 years ago. It looks like a miniture guitar with "f" sound holes and uses ball end strings. It is louder than my Epiphone or Crafter and plays better than those. I use it when playing with Bluegrass bands and in jam sessions. I have an electric Gibson Mandolin I use when playing with Country bands. I'm beginning to think I have the only Arnold Hoyer mandolin around because everyone tells me they've never seen one like it.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: mandotim
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 03:47 AM

Hi Joe; it's not the only one! There is a guy locally who plays one that dates from the late 1950s (he thinks). Hoyer mostly made archtop jazz guitars, and the mandolins were a miniature version of that design.
I've been thinking about the original question, and what mandolin I play. I've got loads of mandolin family instruments, but what I play keeps changing. I learned on a cheap A style, but needed more tone and volume to play in sessions. I bought an all-solid woods F5 copy, because I knew nothing and liked the shape. When I played a lot of Irish/Scottish music in sessions, I stopped playing my mid-priced F5 copy, and played a flat top that I made myself. Very loud, ringing tone, great for dance tunes and slow airs etc. I then started playing a wide mixture of styles, including folk, jazz, blues and bluegrass. I needed an all-rounder to avoid having to cart several mandolins about, so I bought an amazing Rigel, a presentation model given to a Rigel employee who left the company. It has all the bells and whistles, and does just about everything competently or better. It wasn't cheap, but it was worth every penny. I don't play it very much these days though; the wheel has turned, and I'm playing a lot of blues and bluegrass, and the F5 copy has matured with playing into a real bluegrass cannon. I've got a number of mandolins that are 'better' on paper, but the woody tone and volume of this particular Korean made knock-off beats them all hollow for this style of music. I did a 'blind' test A/B recording recently against a very expensive custom Gibson F5, and played it to some knowledgeable buddies. None of them picked the cheap one out.
I suppose what I'm saying is that a 'good' mandolin is one that fits the context of the player and the sound that they are looking to create. The mandolin is such a versatile instrument that one mandolin is probably never enough, and different styles of instrument enable the player to explore and develop. As long as the instrument has enough volume to be heard, plays well, stays in tune and has the appropriate tone for the setting, it's a 'good' mandolin. I always take the view that instruments are tools, not ornaments; they are meant to be used, not looked at and admired. Like the look of those Hoyers though!
Tim

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Zen
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 06:28 AM

As a primarily mandolin player I agree with much of what Tim said. I've owned a fair number of mandolin family instruments over the years, including instruments from Martin, Chris Eccleshall, Roberts, LeVoi, Paul Hathway, Terry Docherty, Fylde, Gideon Weigert and Sim Daley. All have had excellent and very different qualities and my likes in tone have certainly evolved over the years. My current main instrument, a Daley A-style, is a very "woody" and typically American-sounding instrument very well suited for old-timey and Appalachian tunes and blues while my other current mandolin, a Fylde Touchstone, has a typically European "ring" and long sustain which suits it well to some "Celtic" tunes. I've always also liked the Lyon & Healy sound and have a two-point in that style on order at the moment from Gary Nava which I'll probably use for classical and Irish/Scottish slower stuff. Certainly, having more than one mandolin has helped me in exploring a wider range of music and styles. I'd also agree that there are many less well-known instruments that can sometimes knock the socks off some of the well-known (and sometimes extremely expensive) makes. As Tim says, for me they are tools rather than ornaments to be locked away safely in their cases.

Zem

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: matt milton
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 09:10 AM

I have an Ashbury resonator mandolin. It doesn't exactly sound like a mandolin unless you're playing quietly. it has a sort of zithery, banjo-like quality. I bought it because I had a budget of around £200, and all of the proper mandolins I tried at that price just sounded characterless. They sounded plastic.

I also picked up a knackered 2ndhand mandolin from a charity shop recently. It's from a Czech factory called "Cremona" but that's all I know about it. Action's a bit high – it's quite painful and in fact near-impossible trying to fret barre chords high up the neck – but it's playable and has a satisfying tone. Has a very nice art deco looking flower painted on it.

I tend to fingerpick the mandolin because that's what I'm used to doing on guitar and banjo. Though I have found it difficult to properly sound the middle strings when fingerpicking barre chords; using a pick means the notes will still sound even if the soft fat parts of your left fingers aren't quite properly down. Generally I find playing barre chords cleanly, with all the strings ringing, on the mandolin a real struggle. Which has surprised me as I have no problem doing so on guitar or banjo. Any tips on this greatly appreciated.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: mandotim
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 10:38 AM

Hi Matt; the mandolin isn't really designed for finger picking; double strings and narrow string spacing tends to make it difficult, although I've seen it done with very pointed, banjo-style fingerpicks. Flatpicks are much easier to use, and to my mind fit with how the instrument was built to be played.

The barre chord thing is an adaptation issue I think; most acoustic (non-classical) guitars have a radiused fretboard, whereas most mandolin fretboards are flat. For a guitar player this means the middle strings aren't quite where you expect them to be under your fingers. This is compounded by the relatively high string tension on a mandolin when compared to either a guitar or a banjo, so you have to press down a bit harder to get a clean sound. A refret with taller/fatter frets sometimes helps, and you can get mandolins with radiused fretboards.

It's sometimes easier to play chord inversions that have partial barres (just two strings), or try to get used to the Bill Monroe 'chop' style chords that use all four fingers (as a rule)to play 'closed' chords anywhere on the neck. Some big stretches involved in those though!
Hope this helps.
Tim

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: matt milton
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 12:16 PM

Thanks, that's useful. I do understand that flatpicks are how it's supposed to be done. Depends on what I'm playing – for bluegrassy stuff I'm using a flatpick. But for example I'm currently trying some old English songs (from the Penguin Lloyd/Williams folk songs book) in a kind of cod-baroque-counterpoint way, for which I really need to be sounding the bottom and top strings simultaneously but none of the others. You just can't do that with a flatpick.

yeah, at the moment I favour using four fingers for big chords, and try to flatten my index finger or fourth finger to make it cover two strings where necessary. But I think I just need to do some serious, boring and mildly painful practice of playing nothing but barre chords until I get the wrist strength up.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: mandotim
Date: 30 Apr 09 - 02:22 PM

Hi again Matt; just a thought about what can be done with a flatpick; have a listen to the wonderful Evan Marshall, playing what he calls 'duo style' here . He's quite good.
Tim

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: GUEST,Ani McNeice
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 05:29 PM

Just made this for a friend!


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5613066&l=b52278dd47&id=692637246

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: buddhuu
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 07:08 PM

That a southpaw, or did the pic flip?

Looks cool :-)

For the record, these days I play a Kentucky KM-505. Total bargain.

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 07:52 PM

My No 1 is a Terry Docherty from 1998 , with an Ashworth under the bridge pickup , and as a spare I have a somewhat older Gianni that I picked up with a Hard case for £180 in a sale about 1992

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: GUEST,Ani McNeice
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 05:48 AM

Hi buddhuu
Indeed it is a southpaw!
It was a good job really or I may have been tempted to keep her!

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: garethfoxwilliams
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 12:42 PM

I too have an Arnold Hoyer. I've had it for about 20 years and never seriously played it, so I'm trying to get it valued. It's a Natural Blonde miniature arch-top guitar shape with F-holes. It's got a Pearlite covering on the headstock, A candy-stripe nut and even a Hoyer original magnetic floating pickup on the neck. Any clues to its value appreciated!!

Cheers
Gareth

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 12:39 PM

ihave a Black, Made in wearside

Subject: RE: What mandolin do you play?
From: GUEST,sbish12655
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 02:09 PM

I play a 1941 Gibson A-50