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BS: Forgotten town names
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Subject: Forgotten town names From: RangerSteve Date: 01 May 02 - 09:12 AM This is somewhat related to folklore. I grew up on Long Island, NY, where some towns with perfectly good names were changed by real estate developers. Frog Hollow was changed to Carle Place. Jerusalem became Central Park and later the more bland and meaningless Bethpage. And the exquisitely named Skunks Misery became the equally bland Malverne. Here in my adopted state of New Jersey, we had Long A-Coming, now just Berlin. Thankfully, Ong's Hat retained it's name. It's on protected land and can't be developed. Let's celebrate those great town names that have been replaced with blandness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 May 02 - 05:00 AM Steve: possibly "Bethpage" is a missprint,or someone has missremembered it. Although it looks like the name Beth Page, it may well be being used as a biblical reference. Bethphage was where Jesus sent the desciples into the town to secure his transport into Jerusalem. "And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples," (Matthew 21:1)
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Terry K Date: 02 May 02 - 05:06 AM ....tricky association, it's probable that most biblical references fall into the category of "someone has misremembered it". Cheers, Terry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 May 02 - 05:07 AM Fortunately, place names rarely change in the U.K. these days. Far more annoying is the habit of changing the names of "Public Houses" (inns). National Breweries or retailers buy up established pubs and then try to fit them into their own mold by re-styling and re-naming. Unfortunately, many of these pub names have been in use for over a century, and give their (original) names to the surrounding area. Also, they are often sited on corners (or the roads have sprung up around them) and giving directions to strangers it is often easiest to say " Carry on along this road, turn right at the 'Lamb and Flag', then carry on until you pass the 'Duke of York' on your right, the turning you want will be the next left. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 May 02 - 05:15 AM Finally, Steve: You grew up in Long Island,NY,? Shouldn't that be Long Island,NA,? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Terry K Date: 02 May 02 - 05:28 AM ...NA - nice one Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: RangerSteve Date: 02 May 02 - 05:58 AM I don't get it, Nigel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 May 02 - 06:10 AM Steve:NewYork has also undergone a name change (at least once) Long Island, New Amsterdam! Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Bat Goddess Date: 02 May 02 - 08:12 AM And then there's the towns that were swallowed up by their larger neighbors and no longer exist as separate entities on maps, though sometimes on signs. Also, I discovered the hardway a couple years ago, that when a town's population drops below 100, they're dropped from highway maps. The leader of the band my Dad played with during the War (WWII) lived in a tiny crossroads called Hika, Wisconsin. Thirty years later, either of my parents could remember the town name and it couldn't be found on the map, so I was laughed at for making up such a ridiculous town name. Then I bought a batch of old road maps at a yardsale -- including a circa 1960s roadmap of Wisconsin -- and there it was. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: sian, west wales Date: 02 May 02 - 08:37 AM My mum has an Ontario road atlas, readily available in Ontario service stations, which includes ALL the local place names which are mostly now remember only by the REAL local old-timers. And then some. Highly entertaining, and recommended reading - I imagine this is one of a series covering all the Provinces. Full marks for the publishers. sian |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Jim Dixon Date: 02 May 02 - 10:18 AM St. Paul, Minnesota, was first known as Pig's Eye, after Pierre "Pig's Eye" Parrant, a French Canadian who set up a trading post here. By the time the town got around to incorporating, they figured they needed a more dignified name, so they took the name from the first church, St. Paul's. Now there is a Pig's Eye Regional Park and a brand of beer named after him. The neighborhood I live in is known as Merriam Park, after John L. Merriam, a land developer. Merriam Park was originally a suburban community, and people used to commute to St. Paul by train. It is now part of St. Paul. The train station has disappeared, but there is still a sign by the side of the railroad track marking "Merriam Park." A lot of old names survive this way. I think the railroads use them as reference points to denote positions along the track. A topographic map, e.g. TopoZone.com, will sometimes show you names of things you didn't know had names. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SAD DEATH OF ELLENTON From: catspaw49 Date: 02 May 02 - 10:51 AM Based on the loss of a South Carolina town to the Nuclear Power Commission in the early 50's, this song seems appropriate here. Whether fact or fiction, it's said that the residents DID get the first chance at jobs in the plant, but supposedly this ironic message was posted on a signboard at the plant: "We build H-Bombs here to use on towns you love as much as we do ours." The Sad Death of Ellenton Where the broad Savannah flows along to meet the mighty sea, There stood a peaceful village that meant all the world to me, The home of happy people I knew each and every one, My kin and all the friends I loved---the town of Ellenton. But the military came one day and filled our hearts with woe, "We'll study war right here", they said, "This little town must go." Then they came with trucks and dynamite and the din and dust rose high, I stood and gazed in silence as I watched my home town die. They brought bulldozers by the score where children used to play, Pushed over all the trees we loved and scraped the flowers away, Now the homes are gone, the schoolhouse too the sweat and toil of years And with them all our hopes and joys of past and future years. The little church they hauled away, the fields are brown and bare, And in their place a mighty plant, They build the H-bomb there. Now the smoke hangs o'er the valley like a mist before my eyes, And it's been there ever since the day I saw my home town die. Oh, the friends we know and love we'll meet upon some other shore, For Ellenton--fair Ellenton is gone forever more. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: GUEST,Ely Date: 02 May 02 - 11:27 PM I live 20 miles from Tomball, Texas, (named for a guy named Thomas Ball), and maybe 50 from Cut And Shoot. There's a sign on Interstate 45 in northeast Texas that labels the exit to Angus and Mustang (on the same sign, no less). There's also a Bronco, Texas, but I haven't been there yet. When I drove to college in Iowa, I'd go through Y City, Arkansas (located at a fork in the road). When I was a kid in Colorado, we'd go up into the mountains to visit Silverplume, Blackhawk, and Nevadaville (I don't know if it was named for the state or because it was at a high elevation and got snowed on a lot). A friend of mine once drove through Tightwad, Missouri. And there's always Bird-In-Hand and Intercourse, Pennsylvania. Heaven forbid any of them ever be renamed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Gervase Date: 03 May 02 - 04:38 AM As Nigel says, in the UK place names seem to be pretty jealously guarded. I used to live near two villages cally Ugley and Nasty in Herts. Their Women's Institute branches wouldn't hear of changing the names! New developments are another matter though - they're almost always totally forgettable, with maybe a nod to some whimsical rural ideal; Jobsworth'sMeadow or Gerrybuilder's Dell or whatever. Given that most of these "executive homes" (whatever the f*** that means) are bought by tasteless gits with shiny 4X4s and kitchens they never use, maybe Tosser's Retreat or Corporate Close would be more appropriate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Nigel Parsons Date: 03 May 02 - 05:23 AM Combined pub names- place names can be made interesting. The Gloucestershire village of Paradise has a pub called "The Adam and Eve". Of course, it is always referred to (including by the signwriters) as The Adam and Eve Inn Paradise! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Gareth Date: 03 May 02 - 06:17 AM Then Gervase there is always Loose, near Maidstone, Kent - Home of the Loose Women's Institute !!. Seriously tho, in the Rhymney Valley, South Wales is the Village of Pontlottyn (Translates as Lot's Bridge.) The original village grew out of the hovells sourounding the mines and Iron works just south of the town of Rhymney. The original name was "Sodem and Ghmorrah" a name given as an indication of the squalid conditions that were there. Now when the Railway was built to Rhymney in about 1860 the directors were not happy at the thought of printing a Station called "Sodem and Ghmorrah" in the timetable, and the name was changed by the Railway Co. to "Pontlottyn". All it needs know is for a local archeologist (Sp) to dig up a statue of a woman of salt !!! Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: greg stephens Date: 03 May 02 - 07:15 AM Is it true the story a while ago that all the placenames in Canada with "sqaw" in had to be changed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Bat Goddess Date: 03 May 02 - 08:37 AM Other names changed were a lot of place names with "nigger" or black in the name -- and, in New England at least, USUALLY the name referred to pine or other evergreen trees, known as black growth (for how they look from a distance). In other words, an island was usually named Black Island because it had a lot of pine trees on it and looked black from a distance. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Nigel Parsons Date: 03 May 02 - 10:35 AM One wonders how 'Arnie' gets away with it, his name sounds as if it should mean "Black-Black" ... But you don't argue with someone his size! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: GUEST,Wordless Woman Date: 03 May 02 - 11:13 AM Southern New Jersey is so full of forgotten towns that there are two books, written in the 1930s, devoted to identifying them: Forgotten Towns of Southern New Jersey and More Forgotten Towns of Southern New Jersey For nearly 200 years before Long-A-Coming officially became Berlin Borough, it was a popular stop along the stagecoach road from Cooper's Ferry (now Camden) to the Shore. Just how the name Long-A-Coming found its way into the local nomenclature has long been debated. Some historians believe the name came out of the patois of the native Americans who created the trail that the stagecoach road followed along the Egg Harbor River. Others say the name was derived by weary travelers, jostled along on those stagecoach rides, anticipating their stop at the inn, where they could rest and perhaps imbibe in some spirits. Before even getting to board the stagecoach at Cooper's Ferry, passengers had to catch an early-morning barge from Philadelphia to cross the Delaware River. So difficult were the ensuing 14 miles to Long-A-Coming that the horse-drawn ride over a muddied and deeply rutted dirt path through the wilderness persuaded many travelers to turn back as soon as they arrived. Sadly, Og's Hat (and who wouldn't want to live there) has disappeared. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Gareth Date: 03 May 02 - 11:43 AM Interestingly, when talking about "Long-A-Coming", over hear you can find "Halfway" as a village or pub, quite frequently. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: JohnInKansas Date: 03 May 02 - 12:29 PM We seem to have more towns that have disappeared from my neighborhood than we have towns that have lost their names. Around the turn of the century, we were "twin cities" with Wichita on the east bank of the river, and Delano on the west side. Mostly, folk from Delano were not allowed in Wichita, since Delano was inhabited only - in the words of one contemorary - "by drunks, gamblers, scoundrels, and whores." Although Delano was long gone before I came on the scene, I can recall old-timers (East of the river) who still believed that civilization ended at the river bank. I can also recall when there were still a few people living in Intercourse, 14 miles south of Climax. Good for a few chuckles. Both towns disappeared from the maps for a few years, although the road sign on the main road pointing to Climax remained for a good 30 years. When they rerouted the road, the sign came down - apparently at about the same time that a few people moved back into Climax. The result is that - you have to know how to get there to find Climax in Kansas, but there is no Intercourse here anymore...... I'll go quietly... John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: greg stephens Date: 03 May 02 - 01:10 PM The Austrian town called Fucking used to cause a lot of English-speaking holiday makers to stop and take group photographs by the town sign, but oddly enough I havent heard any talk of it for years. I wonder if they changed the name, being sick of the attention? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: CarolC Date: 03 May 02 - 01:55 PM Little Rest, Rhode Island. (This one's for you, Mole) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: GUEST,Chip A. Date: 03 May 02 - 02:35 PM Not a town but a street......Goose turd lane in Scituate Mass. became Elm Street in my mothers' youth. For that matter, Scituate once was Satuit, named for an Indian chief. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Tyghress Date: 03 May 02 - 03:07 PM Town here in CT is called BERlin. . .funny how 60 years ago it was known as BerLIN. And the good, native names are all but gone. . .Waterbury was called Mattatuck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Lonesome EJ Date: 03 May 02 - 03:09 PM greg. That's Fucking Austria for you! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Hrothgar Date: 03 May 02 - 07:09 PM A lot of Australian towns with German names (usually because the first European settlers were German) changed their names during the First World War - it was unpatriotic to have a German name. Ironically, many of the men who went to war against Germany in two wars had German names, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Bat Goddess Date: 04 May 02 - 12:41 PM New BERlin, Wisconsin; BERlin, New Hampshire . . . Pronunciation changed pretty quickly everywhere once the US found itself fighting Germany. Hmmm . . . even forgot that the Declaration of Independence was first published in German (because the German language newspaper published before the English language one). Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: MBSLynne Date: 05 May 02 - 12:50 PM A lot of English pub names, certainly around our way, are never used locally even though they have been the official ones for a very long time. We have three pubs all in the same village, called "The Hare and Hounds" "the "Man in Compass" and the "Three horseshoes" which are never called anything else but "Mary's House" (though who Mary was has long gone from local memory), the "Rag and Mop" and "Polly Botts". There is also an encouraging trend lately, I've noticed, to change pub names back to the original. Often, though the sign had changed, the pubs were still always referred to by their original names anyway. As far as changing town names goes....there have been various suggestions about changing the name of Coalville, near us, to Charnborough. Not sure which is preferable, though the former does indicate a little about the history of the area. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: The Walrus Date: 05 May 02 - 02:45 PM I must say that I'm agains this habit of changing pub names, just to satify corporate vanity or the taste of the owner. A pub near me has been standing since (about) the time of George III (or even GII){1} and had been "The White Hart" for most, if not all of that time, recently it was closed, sold and re-opened, still as a pub, but now as the Rat and Supposatory" or "Fart and Fishcake" or some other corporate "identikit" name - furthermore the beer's got worse and the prices have gone up (strange it never seems to happen the other way around). Grumpily Walrus {1} It is said that Nelson was served from there while attending a cricket match at the green (now) across the road (He was Nelson of Merton and his presence was recorded) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Lonesome EJ Date: 05 May 02 - 03:23 PM I enjoyed the ancient pub The Trip to Jerusalem at Nottingham. For those who don't know it, it is a small, low-ceilinged cluster of rooms built more or less into the hill that is crowned with Nottingham Castle. The story says its the oldest pub in England (of course, there are at least a hundred claiming that distinction), and that it was a popular gathering spot for those ready to depart on a Crusade. It certainly has a bit of a creepy and claustrophobic feel to it, and one might not be surprised to see the shadowy figure of a hooded knight in a dark corner. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Willie-O Date: 05 May 02 - 04:30 PM I live a few miles from Snow Road Village, Ontario. Despite the literal appropriateness of the name, it lies along an old setttlement road which was surveyed by a guy named Snow. Nearby places you have to know about to spot include Zealand, Oso, Playfairville, Hood and the elusive Lammermoor. Not to mention nearby Matawatchan, Camel Chute, and Poland. It's true, by the way, we do have a raft of good new road maps of Ontario. Willie-O |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Bill D Date: 05 May 02 - 04:46 PM "Daddy, won't you take me back to Muhlenberg county Down by the Green river where Paradise lay?" "I'm sorry, my son, but you're too late in asking, Mr. Peabody's coal train has hauled it away" ...gone, but hardly forgotten |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: weepiper Date: 05 May 02 - 05:15 PM An interesting but useless piece of information for you, Willie-O: the Lammermoors are a hill range in the south east of Scotland. I grew up seeing them every day from the school bus. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Bat Goddess Date: 06 May 02 - 07:58 AM Tom had a teacher who had lived in one of the town's flooded (and obliterated, of course) by the Quaban Reservoir in Massachusetts. When her son, who was born in that town, entered the army it caused no end of bureaucratic tribulation since the town didn't officially exist, so how could he be born there, how could he exist, etc. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: greg stephens Date: 06 May 02 - 09:55 AM Sweet Auburn. There's one nobody's mentioned yet(I think).Where was that, then? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 07 May 02 - 07:46 AM Interesting thread, folks. In Germany we had a regional reform some 30 years ago; a lot of villages were put together and the conglomerate was either named after a geographic pecularity (river-dale, x-mountain) or the bigger city they were attached to, but the original names were preserved. The Postmaster General gave them all the new name with a number from 1 to 38 or more. The inhabitants fought hard for the right to use the old names on the addresses of parcels and letters, and they were allowed to write them between the new town name and the street name. The old names stick to the places, even if the original village is left and ruined (as in the 30 years war). Near my home only a small chapel is left preserving the name, another village was left by the entire population who came to my home town centuries ago, but every child learns at school where the place was. Funny the story about describing a way by using the inn signs. It happened to me some 30 years ago driving through Göttingen when a man recognizing us as students didn't give the street names we had to go but more than 10 inns. I must say it worked splendidly: In a fast driving car it is difficult to read the street signs, but a good big inn sign you can see from afar. Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: GUEST,Wa Ban Zhou Date: 07 May 02 - 09:03 AM My wife was born in VanPort, Oregon, a town on the Washington-Oregon border that no lnger exists. I used to be able to find the towns of Dull Center and Bright about fifty miles from each other in north-eastern Wyoming, but can't anymore. I'm taken with the towns of Boring and Drain in Oregon. What does Boring High School call its athletic teams? Do they have a cheer? "GIMME A B!.... GIMMEE AN O!!................ WHAT'S THAT SPELL?!!!! WHAT'S THAT SPELL?!!! Someday I'll know.... Wa Ban Zhou |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Rollo Date: 07 May 02 - 07:03 PM A lot of traditional georgraphic names around here in northern germany aren't traditional at all... deriving from the cartographers of the king of Hannover wich spoke perfectly french, but no low-german at all. They were very creative, just guessing what the locals meant when telling names. So there are a lot of places called negernbüttel (negroes hill) or negerberg (negroes mountain) were never an african had been seen. originally they were named "Niegebarg" or "niegebüttel" wich both means "New hill" - areas were the wood had been chopped recently to make room for new fields. They also named places "Spanische Mark" (Spanish borders) were never ever a spaniard had been. They had been told "Spannsche mark" (place of tieing) - a place were the road went uphill so a second pair of horses had to be tied before a wagon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Guy Wolff Date: 07 May 02 - 08:31 PM Our town used to be called Judea Parish and then became Washington Connecticut with the revolution.. To bad they didnt think of another name for Belchertown Mass. at the same time.. New Preston Ct and MArbledale Ct were known as Upper City and Lower city.. New Preston is up river from Marbledale Funny thing<><>>>< Hello to all here .. Guy ><><><><><><><><><><><><><> |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Mr Red Date: 07 May 02 - 08:39 PM My home town Wednesbury, we called it affectionately Wedgebury, but the name derives from Wodensburgh. The Borough dedicated to Woden - god of thunder/war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Nigel Parsons Date: 08 May 02 - 04:38 AM Mr Red: Woden (Odin) was the king of the Norse gods, and gave his name to Wednesday. Thor was the god of thunder, and gave his name to Thursday. Tyr (Tiw) was the god of war, and gave his name to Tuesday. Somehow you have conflated the three into one! For 'Puck's Hole', I recommend reading the Kipling book "Puck of Pook's Hill". It is aimed at children, but a good read, and an interesting introduction to the history of the peoples of southern England. It also introduces the Smugglers Song ("Five and twenty ponies...") Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 08 May 02 - 09:13 AM Mr Red, Nigel Parsons,
Odin was not only a Norse god, but under the Name Wodan/Wotan or Wode the Head God of the German tribes, too. An interesting observation can be made with this name: His main sanctuary in my country was named Gudensberg. So Odin/Wode/Gude could have lost an initial labiovelar sound (qu) as in engl. War = french guerre. Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Gervase Date: 08 May 02 - 09:14 AM Going back to pubs (funny that - but it's a habit I can't break!) some are better known by their nicknames than the real names. When I worked in Norwich the office local was always known as The Murderer's, after some dire efent a hundred years or so earlier, and I can't for the life of me recall its real name And the office pub at a paper I worked on in London was always known as The Stab - as in "the stab in the back" after all the careers that had been shafted in there. No-one ever called it The White Hart, not even the cabbies (many of whom were monlighting inkies - the two trades being closely linked in the days before Wapping). On the bowdlerisation of names, though, I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Gropecunt Lane in the old Square Mile. That's a name to knock Tinkers Bottom and all the others into a cocked hat! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: the lemonade lady Date: 08 May 02 - 11:24 AM Somewhere down in the south west of Britain is a place called Polpentre Hill- roughly translated this means Hill Hill Hill Hill!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: DonD Date: 08 May 02 - 12:07 PM Sadly, interesting town and village names aren't too big a feature here in Westchester County Ny, and pubs - fageddabattit. But the common names and the surrent sign discrepancy reminded me of an experience this past weekend in Binghamton, NY. Having done my homework, I knew that B-ton is the home of the world famouus "Spiedie" (Has anyone outside of Broome County and the Southern Tier ever heard of it?) The spiedie is a sandwich of marinated pork or chicken, BTW. I asked where the best place was to get a spiedie and was given directions to Lupo's Char-Pit, opposite the K=-Mart. We cruised that road, back and forth past the place with the big sign on the roof "S & S Char-Pit" but I said, "Oh, no, We're going to Lupo's!" Finally, hunger won out and I drove into the S & S lot to find that each parking space was stenciled "Lupo's" and all the promos in the widows said Lupo's and inside they were selling bottles of Lupo's marinade, etc. After ordering, I asked all the people there why it said "S & S" on the roof and nowhere did it say "Lupo's" no one knew and it was as ifnobody had noticed. Evereybody knew it was Lupo's! And speaking of being given directions by pubs or other landmarks nstead of treet names, have you ever been told to turn at the corner where the 'whatever business' "used to be"? I was once told that the best place to buy a guitar inMexice City was at a store "around the corner from the theater where the Folies Bergere played." It turned out that it had been about five years since the naughty French had been in town, but everybody knew exactly what was meant! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: Nigel Parsons Date: 09 May 02 - 06:52 AM Mrs Lemon. "Polpentre Hill" somewhere in SW Britain. I don't know of it, but if Welsh (and Cornish is similar) Pol would be "head" (so possibly used for "hill"), Pen is "Head" (likewise) Tre could be 3, or shortened version of "tref" (town). But the name is one, with "Hill" following. (In welsh, Pentre is village) So "Polpentre" is 'the head of the village'. So the translation (assuming we don't need to translate Hill) would be the hill at the top of the village. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: GUEST,Mr Red, child of Wednesbury Date: 09 May 02 - 07:07 AM Nigel Parsons Folk process - it was what we were told in Wednesbury. I claim to be notionally right on the grounds that as king of the other gods he could do all their jobs and you wouldn't argue with such a powerful god now would you? ***BG*** (steps left & avoids bolt of lightening) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Forgotten town names From: The Walrus at work Date: 09 May 02 - 08:29 AM Nigel,
"By the Tre, Pol or Pen shalt thou know them Cornishmen" DonD, There is a road junction in Battersea (SW London) which, as far as I know, is STILL known as "The Prince's Head" to a good number of it's locals (and more of the ex-locals), after a pub that was demolished some time in the mid 1970s. Walrus |