Lyr ADD: Johnny Sands

Subject: Johnny Sands
From: GUEST,Kate
Date: 04 May 02 - 01:46 PM

I'm looking for the lyrics to a song named "Johnny Sands". I have it on an old cassette that I've lost the liner for, the performer is Saucy Jade. If anyone has the lyrics, or any info on Saucy Jade I'd be greatly appreciative. My email is [e-mail]. Thanks!

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY SANDS
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 May 02 - 01:53 PM

JOHNNY SANDS

Collected by Bob Copper from a book left by John Johnson (right), 1865-1943, in Fittleworth, Sussex in about 1954: see Chapter Nine, pp. 83-9, of Songs and Southern Breezes for the details; and the appendix for these words. The photo of John Johnson at his garden date is credited to George Garland of Petworth (West Sussex). Click on the photo for a much larger one (also by George Garland, and which might have been taken around 1940) of John Johnson and his wife on their golden wedding anniversary.

Now Betty Miles and Johnny Sands were married hand in hand,
But they lived a most unhappy life, as you will understand.
As you will understand.
He says, My love, I'm tired of life and wish to drown myself.
You silly elf, why don't you then? I've wished it long ago.
I've wished it long ago.

But for fear that I should courage lack and try to save my life,
Pray tie my hands behind my back. I will, replies his wife.
I will, replies his wife.

Now all down the hill this loving bride she runs with all her force,
To push him in - he steps aside and she goes in, of course.
And she goes in of course.

Then splashing, dashing like a fish, Oh save me, Johnny Sands.
I can't my love, though much I'd wish, for you have tied my hands.
For you have tied my hands.

Sheet music and another version isHere.

Either of these the right one?

(If it's already here, I didn't find it)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 May 02 - 01:54 PM

MP3 is HERE if that helps.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 May 02 - 02:15 PM

The song is a 19th century re-write of Marrowbones, ascribed to John Sinclair on a broadside edition of 1842. The Bodleian Library broadside site isn't working just at present, but you can see an American example at  America Singing: 19th Century Song Sheets:

Johnny Sands printed by Andrews, 38 Chatham Street, New York.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: GUEST,kate
Date: 04 May 02 - 02:18 PM

thanks, The mp3 is the exact version I have Spaw, I'm tickled to have found it. And Sorcha those lyrics are similar.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: Gaffer
Date: 04 May 02 - 04:59 PM

Johnny Sands he was a good old man
But he's married to Betsy Haig
She brought him land, she brought him gold
But she proved him a terrible plague
Both night and morn she'd curse and moan
She's full of caprice and whim
'Til he decides he's tired of life
As she is tired of him

Pretty much the same as the Coppers from there on in, this version is what I recall from tat collected a bit further West by Hammond or Gardiner, and if I find my books I can be a touch more precise! One of the few good bondage songs in the tradition - or do all marriage songs count?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 May 02 - 09:05 PM

Most versions are pretty much the same textually, as they all derive from mid-to-late 19th century broadsides; obviously, some are more complete than others. Hammond got it in Dorset, but it turns up pretty much everywhere where English is spoken.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: Kev Boyd
Date: 15 Dec 09 - 06:17 PM

I have a tape of an early 70s Martin Carthy gig (probably circa 1973 but difficult to tell) where he sings a version of this song. I can't lay my hands on the tape at the moment but a little light Googling brings up a set of lyrics here that correspond fairly closely - as far as my memory can tell - to the words Carthy sings:

Johnny Sands he was a fine young man
And he married a lady gay
Though she brought him gold and she brought him land
She proved him a terrible plague
From night 'til morn she'd curse and moan
She was full of caprice and whim
'Til he has said he was tired of life
For she was tired of him
Right fal –la—right fa larum fa larum
For she was tired of him

Oh says he, "I think I'll go drown myself
In the river that runs below She says,
"I wish you would you silly old sot I've wished it long ago."
Says he, "I'll stand all on the bank and you go up the hill
Then you can come down and push me in."
She says, "My love, I will."
Right fal –la right fa larum fa larum
She says, "My love, I will."

"Oh but just in case I should lose me courage
And try to save me life
You must tie me hands behind me back."
"I will" then says his wife
So she's tied him fast as fast can be
And when he's securely bound
Well she goes up to the top of the hill
And she commence to run
Right fal –la right fa larum fa larum
And she commence to run

Down the hill came running his loving bride
Rushing with all her force
For to push him in but he jumped aside
She fell in of course
Then splashing dashing like a fish
"Come save me Johnny Sands."
He says, "I would. You surely know I would.
But you have tied me hands.
Right fal –la right fa larum fa larum
But you have tied me hands."

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY SANDS (John Sinclair, 1853)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 08:56 AM

From the sheet music at The Library of Congress:

JOHNNY SANDS
John Sinclair
Boston: Oliver Ditson, 1853.

1. A man whose name was Johnny Sands
Had married Betty Hague,
And though she brought him gold and land,
She prov'd a terrible plague.
For Oh she was a scolding wife,
Full of caprice and whim.
He said that he was tired of life,
And she was tired of him.
And she was tired of him.
And she was tired of him.

2. Says he, "Then I will drown myself.
The river runs below."
Says she, "Pray do, you silly elf.
I wished it long ago."
Says he, "Upon the brink I'll stand.
Do you run down the hill,
And push me in with all your might."
Says she, "My love, I will."
Says she, "My love, I will."
Says she, "My love, I will."

3. "For fear that I should courage lack,
And try to save my life,
Pray tie my hands behind my back."
"I will," replied his wife.
She tied them fast, as you may think,
And when securely done,
"Now stand," she says, "upon the brink,
And I'll prepare to run.
And I'll prepare to run.
And I'll prepare to run."

4. All down the hill his loving bride
Now ran with all her force
To push him in. He stepped aside,
And she fell in, of course.
Now, splashing, dashing like a fish,
"O save me, Johnny Sands!"
"I can't, my dear, though much I wish,
For you have tied my hands.
For you have tied my hands.
For you have tied my hands."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 09:09 AM

Since the date on the sheet music was 1853, I thought that date would be the definitive origin, but apparently not. I found the same song in 2 books, both dated 1847:

Songs of Ireland and Other Lands (New York: D. & J. Sadlier & Co., 1847), page 139.

The Granite Songster: Comprising the Songs of the Hutchinson Family by Asa Burnham Hutchinson (Boston: A. B. Hutchinson, 1847), page 49.

The first book does credit "J. Sinclair" however.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 02:44 PM

There are 3 copies of JS in the Levy and 2 of them are dated 1842 by Ditson of Boston, both copies of the same by the looks. The 3rd one I take to be the Sinclair original published by Duff and Hodgson of 20 Oxford St, London, as it is described as 'A New Comic ballad'. My personal copy has the Duff and Hodgson stock number 1759 which Neighbour and Tyson date as circa 1853. All rather confusing, unless Sinclair wrote it in America before coming to Britain, rather like Sam Cowell.
Levy has a sequel 'Betty Sands' published in 1865, but this must be earlier as my copy advertises the sequel at the bottom of the pages.
Going by the style of the covers of the Ditson copies I would say they were much later than 1842. They resemble 1860s style to me. Perhaps their dating is an attempt at earliest publication. or when the song was written.

Looking at broadsides, it was printed in 1852 by the Glasgow Poet's Box. Bebbington of Manchester and Ryle of London both printed it in the 1850s, along with other later printers.
The Poet's Box gives the air as 'The Way to do it'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 02:46 PM

I ought to add, my sheet music only says 'COMPOSED by John Sinclair' not 'Written and composed' and there are no credits at all on the inside.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: RTim
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 03:34 PM

I have been singing this version for over 35 years, and can't remember where I got it from?
There is a copy in Anne Warners book - on page 151.

Tim Radford


JOHNNY SANDS.
There was a man named Johnny Sands
Who married Betty Haig
Although she brought him gold & lands
She proved a terrible plague.
Although she was a scolding wife
Full of caprice and whim
He said that he'd grown tired of life,
And she'd grown tire of him, of him
Oh she'd grown tired of him.

He said I think I'll drown myself
In the river down,
Pray do she said you silly oaf
I wished it long ago.
Said he upon the brink I'll stand
And you stand on the hill,
And you run down and push me in,
She said my dear I will I will,
She said my dear I will.

But fear that I should courage fail
And try to save my life.
Pray tie my hands behind my back,
I will replied his wife.
She ties them fast as you may think
And when securely down,
Now stand there John upon the brink
And I'll prepare to run to run
And I'll prepare to run.

Down the hill his loving wife
She ran with all her force
To push him in, he stepped aside
And she fell in of course.
Splashing, dashing like a fish,
Oh save me Johnny Sands,
I can't my dear though much I wish
For you have tied my hands my hands
For you have tied my hands.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 04:55 PM

Betty Haig
Betty Miles
Betsy Haig
Betty Hague

He married all those women. Bloody wonder he got any sleep at all.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: The Doctor
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 05:37 PM

Tim's version is pretty much the same as that sung by Martyn Wyndham-Read over 35 years ago, and recorded by him on his 1971 LP, so maybe....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: RTim
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 07:47 PM

Ah - Yes - I think the Doctor has it!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Sands
From: GUEST,Sim
Date: 14 Mar 10 - 09:54 AM

Hi, I'm doing an english essay. This is the version I found in a book.

A man whose name was johnny sands,
had married betty haigh
and tho' she bought him gold and lands
she proved a terrible plague
for, oh, she was a scolding wife
full of caprice and whim
he said thet he was tired of life
And she was tired of him
and she was tired of him

says he, then i will drown myself-
the river runs below
says she, pray do you silly elf,
i wished it long ago
says he, upon the brink I'll stand,
do you run down the hill
and push me in with all my might
says she my love I will
says she my love I will

for fear that I should courage lack
and try to save my life,
Pray tie my hands behind my back,
I will replied his wife
She tied them as fast as you may think,
and when securely done
Now stand, she says, upon the brink
and I'll prepare to run
and I'll prepare to run

All down the hill his loving bride,
now ran with all her force,
to push him in - he stepped aside
and she fell in of course
Now splashing, dashing, like a fish
Oh, save me Johnny Sands,
I can't my dear, tho' much I wish,
for you have tied my hands
for you have tied my hands

hope it helps!