BS: Star Wars; Episode II

Subject: Star Wars; Episode II
From: paddymac
Date: 16 May 02 - 10:43 PM

Bailed out early this afternoon and went to see the newest rendition of star wars (The Clone wars). Great study of the Anakin Skywalker character. Even Yoda comes alive. No great moral dictates; just a good action thriller. I think my favorite scene was the light saber battle between Yoda and Dooka (the child in me keeps wanting to call him 'dookey). John Williams magnificent score from the original Star Wars keeps popping up throughout. The "colliseum scene" was pretty wild as well. An enjoyable way to play hooky.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: sophocleese
Date: 16 May 02 - 10:56 PM

Ah paddymac. I went out last night and saw it at midnight with about half of the male teenage population of Orillia. A little strange to be twice the age and the opposite sex of most of the audience but I wanted to play silly. I thought the crowd might be rowdy and noisy but instead they were very quiet. The couple of times someone behind me started to chat with their neighbour a larger lad would request, "Would you fucking shutup!?" They did. I thought the movie was fun and most in the audience enjoyed that final fight between Dooku and Yoda. Full marks to Christopher Lee for making the prospect of a fight with a pint sized puppet look somewhat serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: InOBU
Date: 16 May 02 - 11:12 PM

Well... having just finished a new song... (HEY CHECK OUT THE THREAD SONA BANGALA!!!!) I treated myself to a day off. Saw the midday showing, no lines great seat, I must say, this is the sencond Star Wars film where two the "heroes" take on one "bad guy" 2 on one... does Speilberg have no sence of the heroic tradition - or is he just a product of modern American culture, any one else find this a tad odd? Not a bad film, but I was a bit nackered, so I was not as thrilled as say Lord of the Rings, which seathed with heroic idealism... Cheers all, Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 16 May 02 - 11:33 PM

InOBU? It was Lucas...not Spielberg. Spielberg teamed up with Lucas on the Indiana Jones movies, but Star Wars is all Lucas.

On a completely separate note, is it absolutely necessary to slam Americans in every blinkin' thread?

There are jerks the world over...remind me to tell you sometime about the drunken British bastards on a train I was on when the World Cup was in the US a few years ago and what they did to my then 2 year old daughter. Or, I could fill you in on the asshole from Europe at Dulles airport that a crowd of very polite Americans had to suffer.

Assholes are everywhere...why do we have to treat *everyone* who is in any way, shape or form affiliated with them (through no fault of their own) as if they *were* them? Isn't that bigotry?

In the immortal words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: Grab
Date: 17 May 02 - 07:18 AM

Erm, Celtic Soul, who was slamming americans? If it's Larry's comment, remember he's American too. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 02 - 07:35 AM

And "modern American culture" isn't exactly confined to America. (And InOBU isn't the only modern American who's a bit resistant to it either.)

Has it got any good music scenes? (I don't mean background soundtrack, I mean cantina stuff and so forth?)

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: sophocleese
Date: 17 May 02 - 07:58 AM

No McGrath, I suspect that they couldn't get a PEL for any of the bars in Star Wars this time round.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: InOBU
Date: 17 May 02 - 07:58 AM

You know, McGrath... that is another Americanism... think of all the balladry in Lord of the Rings! Lucas (I stand, or sit corrected...) invisions a heroic world without song, just fire and death... even the Vikings sang! The American heroic ethic is a mechanical world of death without culture. Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: InOBU
Date: 17 May 02 - 08:04 AM

Had to run and see Genie off to work... to continue... I think there was more of the heroic ethic in earlier star wars films, but than again Lucas was an old pal of the bloke who wrote the story of myth, Joeseph Campbell, who often spoke with him about the film. After Campbell died, the myth aspect of the films went down hill in my opinion... Cheers again, Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: sophocleese
Date: 17 May 02 - 08:12 AM

Interesting ideas InOBU. Kind of strange looking at a series which was not made in the order of the story. Whatever Lucas does in these first three movies the galaxy is saved by the heroics of the next three films, made earlier. I thought that between Anikin(sp?) and the Senator you saw some differing ideas of what democracy means.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: GUEST,Eric the Viking
Date: 17 May 02 - 08:35 AM

ODIN ODIN ODIN

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: GUEST,CP30
Date: 17 May 02 - 08:59 AM

~}~***^$"!!:;:;¬`¬***---+

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 17 May 02 - 12:02 PM

I was a little disappointed in the movie, because with the exceptions of Christopher Lee and Ian MacDiarmid (is that his name? Palpatine, I mean) I thought the acting was weak. Even Ewan MacGregor wasn't given much to do, and Natalie Portman (whom I usually think is good) seemed pretty sappy, too. Then again, much of the writing for the love scenes was silly "you are in my very soul" stuff, so it may not be her fault.

But (and in this case it's a very big but), the visuals were breathtaking! I'd love to live on Naboo!

I think the difference between Lucas and Tolkien re singing is not American versus English, but Sci Fi versus Fantasy, and to some extent movie versus novel. The whole idea of heroic song, while not absent from techno sci fi, is much less prevalent than it is in fantasy, whether by English or American (or Canadian or continental) authors. And while Lord of the Rings is an interesting comparison, remember that all the songs were left out of the movie. Legolas doesn't go around singing all the time, Bombadil was cut entirely, and the spontaneous outbreaks of balladry just don't happen. Remember that the director/"auteur" of that movie was Australian.

I think, in defense of Celtic Soul, that a lot of what people on this list (and elsewhere in the world--this is not a mudcat gripe) see as deficiencies in the world are put down as Americanisms, even by Americans. But very often there are other explanations.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: SharonA
Date: 17 May 02 - 01:48 PM

Larry (InOBU) says, "After [Joseph] Campbell died, the myth aspect of the films went down hill in my opinion."

I couldn't disagree more! Just last night, I watched a Bill Moyers special on PBS entitled "The Mythology of Star Wars" wherein he interviewed George Lucas. Lucas discussed all 5 Star Wars movies (and alluded to those he plans for the future) and how they relate to different myths in the world, to Joseph Campbell's theories about the "power of myth" and to Lucas's own attempt to tell the old stories in a new way. I found the discussion fascinating. If your local PBS station broadcasts this program, I urge you not to miss it! If it's being shown in the middle of the night, tape it!

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: paddymac
Date: 17 May 02 - 04:54 PM

There is a web site no serious Campbell student should miss - the Joseph Campbell Foundation at .

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 17 May 02 - 05:07 PM

Grab, you're probably right that I am overreacting...

In my defense, I had just read 4 *separate* posts in other threads, all with some sort of anti-America(n) theme to them.

I apologize, InOBU, if I went over the mark on yours because of others.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 02 - 07:53 PM

Went to see it today. Fantastic special effects, but so far as I was concerned mostly wasted.

There's a rhythm to story telling, and just throwing everything at you in a blur all the time doesn't do it. If you're going to take us to strange places and bring in strange people, you've got to allow time to look around and appreciate them and start to care about what happens to them.

And compared to the first trilogy it was so lacking in any real humour or humanity.

What was interesting however was what was slipped in between the special effects. I found it unnerving how topical the basic plot seemed. A democracy manipulated into giving itself over to the dark side, and totally subverting itself, in the process of responding to an external threat. A victory behind which looms a devastating defeat. Amazing to think it's been all that time on the way, and then it comes to the screen at a time like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: hesperis
Date: 24 May 02 - 01:13 AM

Yeah, interesting, McG!

I can't wait to see it. Even if it sucks, it's still Star Wars... and... in a way I'm glad that the first three movies still hold the crown of the series. The first part of a vision is usually lacking compared to later unfoldments. So, these two movies are the foundation for the later events, but it IS the later events that were important, after all.

Hope I can see it while it's still in the theaters.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 30 May 02 - 01:57 AM

I saw this with my 7-year-old daughter in Denver last weekend. Two things stood out for me. First, I found the dialogue and acting, especially in the scenes between Anakin and Senator whatshername, to be painfully flat and wooden. There's no reason you can't have lively dialogue and direction even in a fantasy/sci fi movie.
Second, I was amazed that this film was rated PG. My daughter had to close her eyes during the LONG coliseum scene, and she had nightmares to boot. And she is not particulary squeamish for a 7-year-old. It seems to me (and I know I'm not alone in this) that we've seen an ever-increasing ratcheting up of the level of violence that is tolerated in films. Is it any wonder that pre-teenagers are shooting their classmates? I know, I know, it's been discussed ad nauseam (pun intended) -- but I think it still needs saying.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 02 - 03:36 AM

Yes Mark, I have to agree with you. The Nintendo generation are becoming de-sensitized to violence. Of course it has a lot to do with a complete lack of discipline at home, and at school. Not to mention the total absence of consequence for bad behaviour, applied in the judicial system. Society, avoiding these issues cause the worst form of child abuse; making children into adults nobody wants to hire.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 30 May 02 - 04:20 AM

Troll

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: paddymac
Date: 30 May 02 - 05:09 AM

Sorry. I just noticed that the link I thought I posted on the 17th didn't survive. The url for the Joseph Campbell Foundation is

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: Mooh
Date: 30 May 02 - 10:07 AM

One of my kids has lived Star Wars for several years...books, magazines, posters, movies, clothing, and an enduring interest in reading and writing sci-fi/fantasy. Just to witness her enthusiasm when SW is mentioned is "worth the price of admission".

Anyway, just how much folk music is there? Is there anything which resembles traditional music styles? Anything acoustic? I'll eventuallly see the movie I suppose, when the youngun gets the DVD, but in the meantime what sort of music is there, and is it good?

Wondering, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: GUEST,sophocleese
Date: 30 May 02 - 10:54 AM

Sorry Mooh, no good live music in the movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: paddymac
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:32 AM

Damn. Did it again. the url is "www.jcf.org"

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:37 AM

Not a single sea shanty in the whole movie. What a disappointment.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: DMcG
Date: 30 May 02 - 11:44 AM

One of the things I noticed about the cities is that they appeared to have a lot of neon and similar advertising on the walls, etc. I don't remember anything like this in the 'later' Star Wars episodes. Is capitalism going to be finished off in Episode 3 as well? Or is it just my memory going?

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 May 02 - 11:27 AM

Interesting discussion. Some points:

Larry's comment of "Two on one" fighting. I agree the interest is to see the little guy win but in this case, as in the fight with Darth Maul, I got the sense that the two would be herd pressed to succeed even though they out numbered the bad guy.

The mythology of the series: I missed that as well but wrote it off to being a disclosure of the origins of the main characters. As I watched I kept remembering the comments about the characters in the previous movies.

Music: I think the music in LOTR and Episode II pretty much reflects reality. In a culture of low technology the characters are forced to sing themselves about that which interests them, heroes and drama. It is their only real entertainment.

In an "advanced" culture that job is relegated to the electronic media. Music becomes the fill sound behind the day to day action. The movies are made about the interesting characters are those who do not avail themselves of such electronic entertainment.

Humor: I saw the movie with my 18 year old daughter. She commented that she was glad they had gone back to humerous comments they used in the first series. As an example, in the arena, Obi-Wan's comment that the princess seemed to be on top of things as she climbed to the top of her column. I don't remember hearing "I've got a bad feeling about this." anywhere in the movie but I do have to go back to see it again.

I really liked the movie. It provided some interesting juxtapositions, e.g., Yoda leading stormtroopers, Jar-Jar (He's not dead yet?) as a diplomat, stormtroopers actually making progress in a fight, etc. But then I am a Star Wars junkie and have enjoyed every episode.

Subject: RE: BS: Star Wars; Episode II
From: paddymac
Date: 01 Jun 02 - 11:26 AM

I remember being amazed/impressed with how much the cloned troops looked (but did not act) like the storm troopers of the original episodes. Hmm. Does that presage a transformation of the "good guy" clone warriors of Episode II into storm troopers in Episode III? After all,the "model" for the clone warriors wasn't exactly a model of integrity, and his cloned "son" turns out to be a chip off the old block. That's an interesting play on the "nature vs nurture" dichotomy.