BS: Some people are sick

Subject: Some people are sick
From: weepiper
Date: 18 May 02 - 04:09 PM

I am so angry!!!

Got home from work to discover some twisted &*%$er had smashed a vodka bottle all over the doorstep right under the catflap. I'm pretty sure it was a deliberate attempt to hurt the cats because whoever it was had broken it all into little pieces and spread it over a good eight-foot square area (there was even some inside the door). Took ten minutes to get it all cleaned up safely. Fortunately I don't think the cats had been outside since it happened because they both seem ok.

Snaarrrrlll if I get my hands on whoever did it I'll grind broken glass into their bare feet and see how they like it.

Putting on a smiley face now and going to play angry pipe tunes at a session...

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 May 02 - 04:18 PM

So don't let yer cat's out...

It's better for the neighbourhood... it's better for the cats... and it's better for you...

Our newest kitten was born in the Animal Shelter, and have never set food outside (except for one quick sniff while I was helping haul band equipment out the other night) and never will...

Even nearly feral cats adapt VERY well to being indoor animals, especially if provided with even basic indoor entertainment...

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 May 02 - 04:48 PM

piper - so sorry. It takes a sick, angry mind to do something like that. It might be worthwhile to report it to the police just to have it on record.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: kendall
Date: 18 May 02 - 04:54 PM

People who hate cats are control freaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Jock Morris
Date: 18 May 02 - 05:09 PM

Cats are wild animals and should, if possible, be allowed outside. Mine are kept in while I'm at work and overnight, but get to wander morning and evening. They get their freedom, I know they're reasonably safe and the birds don't have to worry too much.

Hope the evil b*****d who broke the bottle suffers a long slow agonising death.

Weepiper, have I ever met you? I know a few players of small pipes in Edinburgh.

Scott

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 May 02 - 05:13 PM

Sorry to hear that, weepiper, but I also have to agree with Clinton...much better, imo, to keep them inside. Still, whoever would do such a thing is a damned sick bastard!

(Sorry, Jock, it is my belief that most cats who are pets have had the "wild" bred out of them, generations ago. I know they can still slice and dice, but several I know wouldn't know what to do with a bird if it landed on their nose!*bg*)

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 02 - 05:44 PM

Yeah, and the cats that 'play' with half dead birds and rodents are pretty sick bastards too...

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 May 02 - 06:02 PM

Well, I think it is a sick thing indeed. I'm not a particular cat fancier, having been awakened at 4 am way too many times by plaintive meowing, but I don't understand anyone wanting to hurt an animal. I find cats annoying as a species, but likeable in individual cases. Hope you catch the culprit, piper.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 May 02 - 07:10 PM

Cats aren't stupid, they would have smelt the vodka (yeah, and you reckon water don't smell either) and either been very VERY cautious or just not gone out at all...

LTS cat employee since 1978.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Peg
Date: 18 May 02 - 07:18 PM

Oh, that is awful! People who do cruel things to animals perplex me...I mean, why? It's like men beating up women or raping children--makes them feel powerful but they prey on helpless beings. Pathetic.

re: cats outdoors, my kitties are mostly indoors but nothing will stop ole Ziggy (15 years young and veteran of a near-death experience probably involving a hit and run) from wanting to go outside. Now that he has slowed down a bit I let him out when I am gardening or otherwise doing something around the house. He never strays far and knows to stay out of the street. I don't think it's so bad to acclimate kittnes to being outside, just in case they find themselves there accidentally and don't get freaked out. But adult cats raised indoors usually are skittish of going out and get very disoriented if let out accidentally...

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: kendall
Date: 18 May 02 - 07:24 PM

Guest, nature is not cruel; nature doesn't care.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 May 02 - 07:36 PM

Lonesome EJ said:-"I find cats annoying as a species, but likeable in individual cases."
I find that people are annoying as a species, but likeable in individual cases. A bit trite, but very true. And I much pre-fur cats. (or catters)

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 May 02 - 07:42 PM

That's true Horse. And what's worse, humans tend to use the whole Earth as their litter box.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 May 02 - 08:11 PM

I disagree, I've never crapped in a sand dune.

Or the garden....

Or the beach....

Or the front room carpet.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Tweed
Date: 18 May 02 - 08:56 PM

LOL!! Good on you Liz! ;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 May 02 - 08:57 PM

That's not what micca said.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Amergin
Date: 18 May 02 - 08:57 PM

well...you are one up on me there, Liz.....

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: mack/misophist
Date: 18 May 02 - 11:16 PM

Not only do cats do very well indoors, they don't get injured, poisoned, or mauled by other animals. I live with more cats than a sane person would tolerate and none of my cats have been outside for 30 years. And all have died natural deaths.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: khandu
Date: 18 May 02 - 11:29 PM

???? misophist, have you kept the ones that died of natural causes in your house for thirty years????

khandu

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Jock Morris
Date: 19 May 02 - 05:54 AM

Thread drift: Liz, you may not have directly used the beach as your litter box, but given the state of the UK sewage treatment system, that's exactly where a fair percentage of your motions will have ended up.

Scott

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: gnu
Date: 19 May 02 - 06:07 AM

That's beyond sick. Hopefully, the perpetrator gets caught by the police, charged and publically humiliated, along with being taught right from wrong so that it doesn't happen again. Plus, a couple hundred hours of community service at an animal shelter would be helpful. Although walking the sicko barefoot through broken glass does sound somewhat appealing... while drinking some cat pee... and meowing.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Fiolar
Date: 19 May 02 - 06:58 AM

Take some small comfort from the fact that it was only a broken bottle unlike those sick bastards in Huddersfield who fire-bombed a house resulting in the deaths of five little girls and their two relatives. It's a sad bad world people. The latest craze according to today's paper "The Observer" is the videoing of the torture and killing of animals including kittens and hamsters. I truly hope that there is a hell in which the spirits of the abused creatures can take their revenge on those scum.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 May 02 - 12:32 PM

OK Jock, as a former resident of Dorset, I'm well aware that a fair percentage of what Weymouth deposits ends up just off Portland (hence the song, several million years ago, to the tune of Mull of Kintyre.... Portland Bill, the smell rolling in from the Sewer outlet pipe, and over the hills of Portland Bill...) and I've been swimming off Sidmouth beach (up the end by the yatch club.... suspiciously warm patch with "floaters"....) so I guess, in a round about way, my kaka has ended up on a beach, but I have never personally deposited any, regardless of what anyone says. The odd widdle in a ditch, with a cry of 'need', when there hasn't been a Hackney cab available, but never solids. Seaweed makes a particularly bad substitute for toilet paper.

Getting back to the subject, although I am an animal lover and cat employee for over 20 years, I can't help feeling that this is a little small compared with some of the greater cruelties that man inflicts on man...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: weepiper
Date: 19 May 02 - 12:56 PM

Undoubtedly it doesn't compare with firebombing a house, no. I just don't understand why anyone would want to do it. It's shan. Like bullying, I never understood that either.

My two cats have always been outdoor cats and I'm not going to stop them now. On the rare occasions we have had to keep them in for a couple of days (after vaccinations) they kept up a near constant wall-of-death around the house. Fortunately we live along a pedestrian pathway and they both have a healthy fear of the road at the end, in fact they never seem to go out of eyeshot anyway...

Jock/Scott (which is it???) - I don't believe I know you... my real name is Holly, I play whistles, small pipes and border pipes. Does that ring any bells?

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: 53
Date: 19 May 02 - 01:09 PM

My neighbor has 4 cats that they keep in the house. They usually bring them out in the afternoon for a walk, and boy, those cats act and mind just like a dog. She calls to them when its time for them to go in and they line up at the door and go in. It's amazing. Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 19 May 02 - 01:15 PM

*LOL* That must be a sight to see, Bob!

As for keeping cats in permanently or semi-permanently, its been my (admittedly fairly limited) experience that some cats accept it, & some dont.

DOGS roaming free is another matter though.....

...& back to the original point, yes, some people evidently are sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 02 - 01:52 PM

"shan" ?

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Jock Morris
Date: 19 May 02 - 04:31 PM

Holly, were you in the Tiq on Thursday, sitting round by the fire? If that wasn't you then I don't think we've met:-) If you were, then I was the one playing concertina across the other side of the session.

Scott <-real name

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 02 - 05:56 PM

Cats are vermin.

The 'owners' let them out, allow them to kill all the other wildlife in sight, have no problem when they dig up and shit on their neighbours gardens, and justify it as being 'natural' if anyone complains.

Whilst I don't condone the actions of the person that the initial poster in this thread complained about, cats are a pain and shouldn't be kept in urban gardens.

They cause far much more damage than rats, mice etc

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: GUEST,Bullfrog Jones (on the road)
Date: 19 May 02 - 06:42 PM

Liz -- 'The odd widdle in a ditch...when there hasn't been a Hackney cab available' ? Please, keep on using the ditch!

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Kim C
Date: 20 May 02 - 12:08 PM

My kitty Thumper is a confirmed house cat! He doesn't even want to go outside. He's been out in the front yard maybe three times in the last 12 years, and only under supervision. The only time he ever killed anything was a mouse that had come inside. He ate it and left the little green gall-bladder behind, right in the kitchen floor.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: AliUK
Date: 20 May 02 - 12:17 PM

As the proud ( new)owner of a cat ( Agatha, she's 2 months old and I got her yesterday), I am perplexed by why someone would do something to injure animals like that. This is the first cat I've ever had and I know I would cut the persons balls off if they did that round my house.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Fortunato
Date: 20 May 02 - 12:25 PM

weepiper, I wonder if there's a mistake. That seems a odd way to attack a cat. Why hurl a vodka bottle, with vodka in it no less, at a cat door? I would suspect someone got the wrong house, or was playing a prank. It could be a neighbor who had problems with your cat, but it could be something entirely different. Hope the cats are well.

Fortunato.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 May 02 - 01:24 PM

I have no idea what an "urban garden" is...

but that aside...

GUEST 05:56 PM does have some valid points... cat's will hunt, but quite frankly, when they GUT the local population of ally vermin like squirrles, mice, pidgeons, and the like, I have to admit, I don't really care...

The fact that even a front-declawed cat is a near perfect hunter is yet another reason to keep them indoors...

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: weepiper
Date: 20 May 02 - 02:54 PM

Hullo Scott...
Yes that was me! Good session that, shame I was zoned out from being out in the sun all day.

As for the blatant attempts to wind me up from others, it's not working... nyah nyah, I can't hear you.

McGrath, "shan" means shameful and bad. Like picking on someone smaller than you at school.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Penny S.
Date: 20 May 02 - 03:22 PM

Funny, isn't it, how it's acceptable to be vituperative about cats, who do no deliberate harm to humans, but not to complain about dogs in the same style. There has been a case a few days ago of a child attacked by her neighbour's dogs (now deceased). I was once attacked by Alsatians (called off before biting by an owner who did not acknowledge my presence), and I have to use that incident as an excuse when objecting to doggy behaviour. I would not be tolerated if I said that the mess, their barking at me from next door whenever I dare to use my garden, their close approach to my tent, their slobbering on me, their sniffing at parts I wish to keep private, were objectionable, and that's without calling them vermin, unless I have some reason for it, other than its being objectionable.

When people feel such passion about such things as cats, I wonder why. And I'm very cautious about the association between anti-cattery and the urge to control people and things.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Grab
Date: 20 May 02 - 05:11 PM

Penny, dogs are rarely allowed to roam the streets uncontrolled - if they do, they get captured and either the owner gets fined, the dog gets rehomed or the dog gets put down. They're allowed to run freely in some areas, and the owners are expected to clean up after them (under penalty of a largish fine if they don't and are caught) although there's obviously some antisocial gits who don't. Dog mess does appear, but most dog owners are reasonable ppl and clean up after their dogs. They don't leave the mess in place and say "oh it's only natural" and "well it's a wild animal". And even if a dog is left to run wild, it can't (easily) get into your garden. And dogs rarely attack animals or birds - they'll chase them, but most dogs no longer possess the instincts to know what to do after that.

Cats OTOH - well, cats are a popular pet in towns bcos they're small, but often a cat owner will just put the cat out and let it roam freely. So all the neighbours get cat shit in their gardens. Not just disgusting, but dangerous - toxicara is dangerous for adults (blindness being just one nice effect) and can be fatal for kids, and you catch it by having cat or dog mess on your hands and then rubbing your eyes, wiping your mouth, getting it on a cut, etc. And cats will quite happily kill things for the pleasure of killing, which if you happen to be interested in wildlife or birds, will naturally make you less-than-pleased that your neighbour's cat stalks and kills them. I don't blame the cat, I blame the owner who thinks that just bcos they can't see the cat, whatever it's doing isn't their fault.

Bottom line, anyone living in a town is absolutely responsible for their cat. Believe me, if I could find the owner of the cat(s) that crap in our garden, I would happily place every piece of cat shit I find on their doormat, and see how they like it.

I certainly don't advocate what weepiper had done to him/her - that's downright horrible. But if the person who did it was driven by cats invading their home, then I can understand their frustration, even though I think that what they chose to do is despicable.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 May 02 - 05:17 PM

"And cats will quite happily kill things for the pleasure of killing"

Bollox!!

"Cats cannot be held accountable for their actions, because they have no morals to speak of."

--Amelia Peabody Emerson

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Jock Morris
Date: 20 May 02 - 05:31 PM

My cats, while being allowed out, will actually come back in to use the litter trays; so I don't believe that cat shit in the area is by and large because of my cats. The number of birds in my garden would also suggest that the local wildlife isn't suffering too badly. I've had to put up with numerous complaints about my cats over the years, but it was amazing how they all but stopped when the Siamese who used to live down the street passed away.

By the way, as cats usually bury their crap it tends to be canine toxicara that is the problem.

Scott

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: harpmaker
Date: 20 May 02 - 06:18 PM

Ive got to agree with Grab here. All my neighbours have cats & dogs. In my back garden, lovely as it is (Iam a keen gardener) cirtain places stink of cat urine, and the cats are allways pinching and playing with the fish & frogs out of the pond. I dont blame the cats, Its the owners. Weekend just gone; after work we decided to jump in the campervan and go for a little break. Loading the van up with bedding etc, we have to cross a grass verge. Allas we set off, verry nice,--and then,--;--;dog shit, who's stood in DOG SHIT. Well,, it was all over the van carpet, we did our best to clean it up, but you know what its like, we could still smell it on going to bed. I say again, I dont blame the dog/cat, its the owners. luckily, Iam a placid guy, and I can take it in my stride (Thats not to say I like it) But you pet owners should wake up and see how annoying your animals are to other people.(and birds) John.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 02 - 06:33 PM

Jock

"Cats usually bury thier crap" So that makes it OK does it?

The burying in my garden usually involves digging my seedlings up and upturning other plants.

If I ever visit you, I'll just crap under your carpet.

Out of sight...

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Jock Morris
Date: 21 May 02 - 11:59 AM

When it comes to children getting covered in animal crap and suffering from toxicara, then yes, burying the crap does make a hell of a big difference (as opposed to dogs who crap in the middle of the grass).
I've kept cats for 12 years now and I'm also a keen gardener; I've yet to lose a plant to the cats.

Guest, if you don't like cats then you won't be coming a visiting me anyway:-)

Scott

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: SharonA
Date: 21 May 02 - 12:32 PM

Weepiper: I'm sorry to hear about this horrible incident. I agree with those who say that you should keep your cats indoors from now on, for the sake of their own safety. An act of rage such as you describe can only be followed by more of the same, and probably by attempts to kill the cats by capturing or poisoning them.

You can take an outdoor cat indoors and keep him there, as long as you keep him amused. I was the third owner of my (now deceased) cat Chester. Under his first owner he was an indoor cat, but under his second owner, in a trailer park, he was allowed outdoors. He wreaked havoc throughout the park – digging up the neighbors' flowers, clawing the seat of a speedboat, catching birds underneath one old guy's birdhouse (by playing possum until the birds approached him to pull his fur for nesting, then grabbing the birds) – so I took Chester in at about 7 years of age to save him from a trip to the SPCA and probable euthanasia. Because of his destructiveness I had to declaw him, and he was a bit mopey till I got him his own kitten for companionship, but he lived a long, mischievous life and died at the age of 19. So I'm here to tell ya that turning an outdoor cat into an indoor cat can be done!

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Genie
Date: 21 May 02 - 03:46 PM

Jock ,
My cats, like yours, tend to come in to "use the restroom." When they do poop outside, it's usually in my yard. (One of the two actually leaves hers on top of the lawn, like dogs do [no pun intended], as territorial marking.) I'm the one who has to deal with it -- as well as the occasional doggy deposit.

In spite of the fact that I have two cats of my own who spend a good deal of time outdoors in good weather, several neighbors have indoor-outdoor cats, and we have our share of strays in the neighborhood who visit my porch, I find very few 'deposits' either in my garden or on the lawn, and I hear hardly any complaints from any neighbors about any cat problems.

GUEST ,
("Cats...cause far much more damage than rats, mice etc." Maybe. Because there are enough cats around to keep the mice and rat population in control.

As ClintonH. points out, "... they GUT the local population of alley vermin..." .
You can be that if cats didn't help control the population of pigeons and rodents, ANIMAL CONTROL would soon be out there with the poison birdseed and rat pellets.


Re cats as hunters, the several cats I've had over the years have been known to kill mice, pigeons, and one garter snake (which I stupidly tried to set free by turning loose in my yard). The pigeons always get eaten. The mice are given me as tribute. The snake was just left there (probably because it didn't taste good).



Grab,
("...if I could find the owner of the cat(s) that crap in our garden, I would happily place every piece of cat shit I find on their doormat...".
That seems a much more appropriate act of revenge than trying to booby trap the cat door with broken glass.
Since when does "an eye for an eye" call for capital punishment or maiming as the penalty for petty vandalism? (Even if you could apply that label to a defecating cat.)


Liz the Squeak ("I can't help feeling that [leaving broken glass in front of the cat door] is a little small compared with some of the greater cruelties that man inflicts on man...")
Well, yeah, in terms of magnitude, and in terms of direct relevance to our own kind. But cruelty is cruelty. A person who will deliberately inflict pain on another sentient being--be it a possum, a cat, a rabbit, or whatever--is potentially a threat to us human types, too. They may not hurt animals they like or people they're not mad at, but watch out if they define you as an enemy.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: weepiper
Date: 21 May 02 - 04:06 PM

Jings, people...

Grab, I don't believe it was any of my neighbours. My immediate neighbours all like the cats, and next door deals with the crapping in the garden thing by leaving orange peel in her flowerbeds. It seems to work. The cats dig in my flowerbed instead. I have never had a complaint from a neighbour about the cats in the 7 years I've had them. I think it was more likely one of the many unpleasant teenagers that hang around drinking in a playpark across from my house.

SharonA, I was helluva angry about it at the time, but I don't seriously believe someone is going to try to trap or poison my cats... and I can't believe you think declawing a cat is a normal thing to do.

Genie, Scott and Clinton, thankyou for adding voices of reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 May 02 - 04:12 PM

Me?? The Voice Of Reason???

That's SLANDER!!!!!

LOL!!

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: SharonA
Date: 21 May 02 - 04:18 PM

Genie says, "A person who will deliberately inflict pain on another sentient being--be it a possum, a cat, a rabbit, or whatever--is potentially a threat to us human types, too." That's a fact. Weepiper, be careful that your vandal doesn't break a bottle over your head in the future. And that is no joke. I'm concerned for your own safety as well as for the safety of your kitties.

If you haven't reported this incident to the police yet, you should. And if you still have those pieces of glass, give them to the police so they can try to lift fingerprints from the pieces. The yard should be checked for shoeprints, too. If it's too late for any of that, bear it in mind in case there's a repeat of this incident, or a similar one.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 02 - 04:21 PM

Jeez, Sharon

Sure, you're not going a little OTT here???

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: gnu
Date: 21 May 02 - 04:29 PM

CH, I'll give you SLANDER... you've got a soft heart.... calloused, but soft.

As for cats being vermin, I'd rather pet a cat than a rat... and a rat rather than you.

Subject: RE: BS: Some people are sick
From: weepiper
Date: 21 May 02 - 04:34 PM

Sharon, I appreciate your concern, but I have to agree with Guest 04.21 above... honestly the police have many better things to deal with round here. Like the woman who had her jaw broken the other night by an 18-year old lassie trying to steal her mobile phone, a quarter of a mile further down the path I live on (eek!).

Having been very grateful for the swift arrival of the police a couple of times in the past, I'm reluctant to waste their time with freaking out about petty vandalism, which is what this boils down to really. I'm still narked about it but I'm getting it into perspective.