Nottingham Ale

Subject: Nottingham Ale
From: Barracuda d'Morte
Date: 28 Apr 98 - 12:26 AM

Does anyone know the age or background of the song Nottingham Ale? Someone told me it was either in The Beggar's Opera or Three Penny Opera, but I can't find anything to substantiate that. Any ideas. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Nottingham Ale
From:
Date: 28 Apr 98 - 03:26 AM

I get the idea that you ask because you nay have been to Colonial Williamsburg, where this is a perennial favourite. William Chappell (Popular Music of the Olden Time, 572) doesn't say much about it; he got his copy, with music, from a broadside. It's eighteenth century, but maybe not as early as The Beggar's Opera (1727)--which nevertheless does use the tune (song no. 44), i.e. "Lillibullero". An older version (it seems) praises Newcastle ale. Which came first is the chicken-and-egg question. But--in Claude M. Simpson's great book "The British Broadside Ballad and its Music" we find that the "Newcastle Ale" song is a late broadside, reprinted (n.b.) in 1785 or so; while "Nottingham Ale" is at Harvard, a song sheet in the Julian Marshall collection; a MS. book bound in a British Library copy of a songbook, 1783, has the poem credited there to "Mr. Saml. Gunthrope". I seem to remember being told at Col. Wmsburg that the song had been found in the papers of some colonial (or revolutionary) bigwig, so it immediately received special status. Others may correct me on this. Bruce, what do you say??

Subject: RE: Nottingham Ale
From: Bruce O.
Date: 28 Apr 98 - 09:43 AM

The oldest dated copy of "Nottingham Ale" I've seen is on p. 122 of 'The Polite Singer', North-Shields, 1781. The 1st word here is different than the two cited by Simpson in BBBB, i.e., "Young Venus, the goddess of beauty and love".
There's also a song credited to a J. Cunningham, "Newcastle Beer", commencing "When Fame brought the news of Great Britain's success" (no tune direction). It on p. 10 of the book above.

I didn't know of the Colonial Williamsburg copy, and haven't run across any old copy of "Newcastle Ale".
Some similar songs are given in Logan's Pedlar's Pack, including "Good English Ale" from a chapbook of c1793.

Subject: RE: Nottingham Ale
From: Jim Krause
Date: 28 Apr 98 - 04:41 PM

Speaking of "Lilliburlero/Nottingham Ale," does anyone have any American Rev. War parodies of this song? Since it was a political satire of British foreign policy in Ireland, I find it hard to believe that there were none written. I can be reached at [e-mail] Thnaks.