BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?

Subject: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:21 PM

Has anyone seen the Starbucks poster referred to in the following new story? (I have not.) If you have, what do you think – did the ad's designers intend to make an insensitive reference to the World Trade Center collapse, or are people reading things into the ad (the way some people see skeletons in the ice cubes of liquor ads)? A lot of corporations have been criticized for appearing to capitalize on the terrorist attacks of 9/11 – usually with references to nationalism and patriotism in an attempt to associate these with the products' "strengths" – but I can't imagine that any ad agency would do something this crude on purpose and expect to make any sales! Here's the article:

Starbucks Dumping Posters: Image reminded some customers of collapse of World Trade Center
06/16/2002
By IEVA M. AUGSTUMS / The Dallas Morning News

Starbucks has ordered its 4,310 stores to remove a promotional poster that reminded some customers of the World Trade Center disaster. The posters depicted two summer tea drinks – one green and one orange – standing side by side, with a dragonfly hovering to the left and the headline "Collapse into Cool" overhead.

The Seattle-based coffeehouse chain pulled the posters June 7 after hearing that a New York customer had complained the signs were "insensitive" in light of Sept. 11, company officials said.

By that time, a guest on the ABC late-night show "Politically Incorrect" had piled on, saying the dragonfly and two drinks were reminiscent of a plane and the twin towers and criticizing the use of the word "collapse." Others on the show said the charge was ludicrous.

Starbucks officials, saying the posters were not an intentional allusion to the events of Sept. 11, apologized to customers. "We deeply regret if this ad was in any way misinterpreted to be insensitive or offensive, as this was never our intent," spokeswoman Lara Wyss said.

The poster, promoting Tazo Citrus and Tazoberry beverages, was designed to create a "magical place" using bright colors and whimsical elements such as palm trees and dragonflies, Ms. Wyss said.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:31 PM

I think we get a hard-on way too easily anymore...............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:40 PM

It's ridiculous.

A picture of a baby might well upset a woman who's just had a miscarrage. A picture of a happy family might upset peopl who have just had a divorce, etc, etc

To suggest that two glasses and a dragonfly 'represent' 9/11 is totally absurd.

Paul

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Gareth
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:43 PM

Question ? Is Starbucks correct politically or otherwise.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:14 PM

I remember after Daddy was killed really hating all the Father's Day stuff on TV... but hey, that was me, not everybody. Not politically incorrect. Starbucks, however, I gather is walmarty in getting rid of Mom&Pop coffeehouses, which is PI in my book but this ad... when was it designed? If after 9/11 then likely it was sparked by that, however unconsciously, but chances are it was in the works long before that... and I think it would take someone close to the disaster, like I was then, to mind. Have the anti-Irish come in to object to it being green and orange? For crying out loud!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:31 PM

I'm gonna be glad when I'm dead and I don't have to hear ANYTHING else about Sept 9th, 2001...

It lands solidly in my Old News file...

Especially when it comes to absolutely idiotic stuff like this... or the original Spiderman movie preview being recalled, because he caught a helicopter full of bank robbers in a big web between the 2 towers...

IT was the BEST preview that movie could have possibly had... even after Sept 9th...

It COULD have become a CELEBRATION of perseverance...

Instead, all this wet-blouse, PC, caving in is just one more way that the terrorists won the day, and keep winning day after day...

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:38 PM

Wasn't it a Starbucks in the neighborhood of the WTC that was charging rescue workers for water on 9/11? They took a lot of abuse for that so I'm sure they were being ultra-sensitive when they pulled these posters.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 06:29 PM

I heard that story too Ron and don't know whether it's true or not. I personally don't care a damn about Starbucks myself and see the joints as little Yuppie Collection Devices.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 06:31 PM

Catspaw, the entire world heard that story

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 06:47 PM

Yeah I agree, but the question is....Is it true?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 06:51 PM

Where can I go to see wet-blouse caving in?

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:03 PM

I've seen the poster, and anybody who thinks that it looks like the WTC, intentionally or not, needs to see his/her medical care provider for either new glasses or a medication adjustment, as appropriate. Starbucks (which, by the way, serves the only decent coffee within walking distance of my house) is a leader in a very competitive market and is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to do anything to annoy customers/potential customers, at least not on purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Blues=Life
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:17 PM

I hate the very notion of "Politically Correct", because no one can satisfy me with the answer to "According to whom?" The phrase reminds me of the classic test of a person's intelligence...s/he is judged by how well their opinion agrees with mine! Arrgh!

Screw it, I'm going to go play some more

Blues.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:22 PM

Without seeing the poster it's impossible to hazard a guess as to whether scrapping the poster is a ridiculous but of PR, or putting it out was a sick effort to cash in somehow on September 11th. Or maybe both.

The business of doctoring movies to remove the Two Towers is crazy and rather sick. Is the idea to pretend that they never existed, airbrush them out of history?

Maybe in disaster comic book films, like Spiderman, where the superhero saves everybody, that makes sense; there wasn't any superhero to do that on September 11th. But, as I understand it, the airbrush wielders have been busily removing any record of the existence of the Two Towers from all kinds of films and TV programmes which just happened to include them as an indication that they were set in New York, the way they might include the Empire State Building or the Statue of Liberty. or Tower Bridge in London

If that is true, it seems rather disgusting to me. I think I'd feel it as an insult if I was a New Yorker or maybe even more so if I'd lost somebody in the disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 09:40 PM

Artbrooks, I KNEW IT!!!! I KNEW IT!!!

You're a closet yuppie aren't you? Go ahead...Admit it......You have a Lincoln Navigator and wear clothes from LL Bean........Am I right?......I knew it!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 09:43 PM

Starbucks is NOT politically correct. They're doing their best to ruin coffee, for god's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:19 PM

Spaw, actually its a Chevie Blazer and Lands End!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 11:09 PM

Spaw, apparently the thing with the water DID happen. Click

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: GUEST,DW at work
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 11:55 PM

Yes, the water thing is true, I was there.

Basically anything that gets Starbucks a few less customers is good in my book. Ever see the Simpsons episode where the entire mall is nothing but Starbucks except one store, but that's about to close too to become a Starbucks? That's how DC is getting. I understand London England is getting that way too. How much coffee can the western world drink?

DW

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Metchosin
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:24 AM

misophist, I would agree, I hate the taste of over-roasted burnt beans.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:18 AM

I can't believe I said "Sep 9th", TWICE...

*sigh*

It's not easy being this addled...

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:19 AM

All you Seattle (and ex-Seattle) 'Catters, remember when....? Did anyone ever think that little company would turn into the McDonald's of coffee? Well, maybe the Tommy Hilfiger of coffee. Well...anyway, you get the idea. Thanks for the link to Snopes, Jeri, I was about to check the site. I agree with Barbara 100% on this one.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:44 AM

Thanks Jeri....I checked Snopes but missed it for some reason.....Must have had a Clinton Hammond attack....

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Metchosin
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:57 AM

Well I can't comment on the ad, but as far as coffee goes and as PT Barnum once said, no one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. Or the world for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 02:08 AM

Good to know I'm not alone here spaw!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:54 AM

Am I right in understanding that Starbucks has a company policy against allowing people to make live music or sing in their coffee bars?

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: SharonA
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:14 AM

Kevin (McGrath): I don't think so. I attended several song circles (small ones, mind you) in the back room of a Starbucks in Wayne, PA before the manager shut it down because some nimrods had brought in an electronic bass and drums one night, and had made too much noise!

However, there may be a policy against allowing live-music performances in the main seating area; I don't know for sure.

Artbrooks: Thanks for giving your impression of the poster! I'm glad to hear that any similarities between it and the images of 9/11 were not so blatant as to give even the appearance of being intentional. I guess people are going to be sensitive to this sort of thing for a long, long while, and I can't say I blame them, but I agree with Clinton that when people give in to that sensitivity to the point of seeing images of 9/11 in ordinary things, then the terrorists have achieved at least one of their goals.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: GUEST,The Bottom Line
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:40 AM

For those who Can't See The Forest For The Trees

...The ambulance workers did eventually get their $130 back, but they had to jump through hoops for what should have been freely and promptly tendered.

Starbucks isn't heartless -- it did provide free coffee to rescue workers, gave $1 million to the September 11th Fund (a national relief endeavor to help victims of the tragedy), and collects further contributions for the fund from its customers and friends.

(Other companies have made similar contributions, including $10 million each from Microsoft and Lilly Endowment, $5 million from IBM, and $4 million from UPS.) It's thus not an unfeeling company [Starbucks], merely one that fell down badly on problem resolution.

True: It shouldn't have happened, but look at the other side of the picture...

Woe to those who call Evil Good and Good Evil!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:06 AM

But which one is Knievel?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:32 PM

Anyone heard the rumour about some parties wanting to change the name of the second Lord of the Rings films for similar reasons?

I checked snopes but could not find anything.

Only out of interest.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:36 PM

Ya Dave... there's a small internet petition... most of the sigs on it are voting AGAINST the petition...

Once again I'll quote George Carlin...

"Think about how dumb the average person is... now what you have to realise is that HALF the people are dumber than that!"

And people wonder why I have no love for the human race....

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: SharonA
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:57 PM

You're kidding... Somebody out there actually wants to change the title of Tolkien's "The Two Towers" for the movie, even though that's been the title of the book since 1954???... Omigod, you're not kidding. I just checked Google, and here it is: http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/

Unbelievable. The petition actually says "The title is clearly meant to refer to the attacks on the World Trade Center". What idiot wrote that??? Hah, probably the same idiot who named it the "Rename 'The Two Towers' to Something Less Offensive Petition Petition", which of course means that anyone signing it has to agree that "I have read the Rename 'The Two Towers' to Something Less Offensive Petition Petition Petition".

Well, at least there's a notice that says "This petition has been suspended temporarily due to a lack of maintenance by the petition author." Either he lost interest, or he walked into a tree and knocked himself out.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:06 PM

You ain't too bright yourself, Clinton--otherwise you'd live somewhere other than Michigan--

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:11 PM

Following an explosion in a Scrabble tile factory, there are people who could walk through the debris and find something to be offended at.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:21 PM

Sad, but true eh SharonA

Well put Don...

guest... one day I'm moving back to Canada... no more of this America-lite for me...

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:49 PM

What's next, is someone going to want to change the title of Stephen King's "The Dark Tower"? Tower Records? Obliterate the word "tower" from every language on the globe? Oh please. Doesn't anyone have anything better to do, fercryinoutloud? Whatever.

As for Starbucks, it was nice when it was a novelty and a treat. Now it's common and not nearly as charming. However I must confess, when the pre-Christmas anxieties set in, I really like going to Starbucks on my lunch hour for a Mocha Valencia and 30 minutes in a puffy chair. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 06:07 PM

Well I like coffee entirely too much to go to a starbuck and get it. As for Tommy Hilfiger; down here on the edge of the Ozark plateau we have a tee shirt with the TH logo on it only it sez: Tommy Hillbilly.

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 06:21 PM

I imagine they'll have problems anytime they want to re-release Spielberg's AI, where the Two Towers rising out of the flooded ruins of a future New York area are a central image; or the re-made King Kong, where they are the setting for the final denouement in place of the Empire State Building in the proper version.

But I can't imagine there's been a film set in New York since they were built which didn't have them in the background at some point. I think rather than desperately try to edit the image out retrospectively, it would be far better to produce a movie collage made up of all those bits.

As for Starbucks, fortunately it's still possible in some places to get two cups of better coffee for the price of one cup at Starbucks.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:15 PM

I think it's funny... watching Deep Impact the other night... after the tidal wave hits New York and the water recedes the FX guys ahve the WTC still standing...

Nothing ages faster than Speculative Fiction...

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:13 PM

For the record: When there is better coffee to be had than Starbucks, I go for the better coffee and also support my local roaster. (In Anchorage we have better roasters than Starbucks).

When there is no better coffee to be had, which is usually when stuck in airport terminals, I have Starbucks and am properly grateful.

But... When I learned there was a Starbucks in the Forbidden City, I bought the stock!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 11:17 PM

JEsus H. Christmas. Wodda load of neurotic bullpucky and codwallop. It's bad enough we are creating a culture tailor-made for victims instead of those who do; now we are going to go into frenzies on behalf of imaginary victimhood??

And the Federal Government will soon be tasked with protecting American citizens from having bad dreams? The "Communication Neutrality Act" of 2013 will make it illegal to issue public communication suggesting or alluding to any possibility of pain, discomfort, illness, loss, death, confusion or upset.

A nation is a terrible thing to waste; a dream is a terrible thing to lose. Home of the brave, my candied butt!!

I spit.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 01:38 AM

Amos, a candied butt.... hmmm, sounds interesting.

I have only twice ever bought at Grabbucks, and then only because the philistine I was with cares not a jot or tittle for the rest of the world, but does rather like their hot chocolate. I was stunned at the price of 2 chocolates and one piece of cake, which equated the price of *1 CD, *3.5 Happy meals *1 main course lunch at a Harvester Inn, *2 main meals and one pint at a Wetherspoons' inn (pub chain in the UK) or a paperback book.

As for the continued twitchiness about the WTC, why is the same twitchiness not extended to Hiroshima/Nagasaki, which killed or injured far more people, to both World Wars, same again; or to any one of the other atrocities people have committed upon each other in the name of religion or freedom.

Yes, I know lots of people died there, and it was a calamity of epic proportions, but as long as they keep sanctifying the remains, the scar will not heal.

Would they be so twitchy if it had been those two towers in (insert name of Middle Asian country with two large towers full of bankers), as seen in 'Entrapment'? I think not.

It was a truly horrible thing and nothing will make it better. But life has to continue, and this kind of sanctification will only warp and twist the memory of those who were involved. Life goes on, get over it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Banjer
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 05:45 AM

The actions of Starbucks are similar to the building supply company in south Florida when hurricane ANdrew hit. Scotty Lumber outlets actually raised the price of their plywood sheeting (needed to seal off broken windows, etc.) while Home Depot put into effect sale prices scheduled for a sale later that month. According to news articles Scotty's was fined by state officials for price gouging. There are a few Starbucks outlets in this area and as others have reported they are way too high priced! I can buy a pound of coffee and ruin it better than they can for a lot less money! If I were a customer of theirs I would let them know that their knuckling under to the ridiculous PC faction is very discouraging!! I have seen the ads and it's like those stupid inkblots, no two people will see the same thing. I saw a summer scene with two beverages standing in a pleasant meadow surrounded with the trappings of the season.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Grab
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:59 AM

For those of us in other countries, or those of us who aren't Starbucks customers, this is the poster.

To anyone who found it offensive, I can only say, "You what?!?"

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 08:39 AM

I can only say that Starbucks is 3 blocks from my house, and so is IHOP. Starbucks charges $1.40 for a cup of coffee (in my big cup). IHOP charges $1.25 for a small paper cup. Starbucks brews it a gallon at a time, and goes through a lot of it, so its always fresh. IHOP makes it in 10 gallon batches, and it was stale the two times I went in there. Starbucks is quiet and lets me sit there as long as I want reading my book. IHOP is noisy as hell. If I want to go anywhere else, and there are other coffee options in town, I have to drive 3 miles or more.

Pulling the poster was bullshit. Implying that denying water to WTC victims was corporate policy because one idiot employee of one outlet did so is just as much bullshit. The denial from headquarters that it happened may well have been based on increduality that anybody could have been so callous and/or stupid...and I'd bet he/she isn't working there any more.

Is Starbucks PC or not? Personally, I don't care, but then I find the entire idea of judging people or organizations on "political correctness" as repugnent as trying to lump people or ideas into "liberal" or "conservative". They put out a good product, which admittedly isn't to everyone's taste, and they are very successful in their nitch market.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 08:45 AM

art - $1.40??????? The cheapest Starbucks coffee in this area is $3.50 and they go UP from there!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 08:57 AM

Right -- well, everyone knows dragonflys are just like jet airlines and frozen tea is just the same as a skyscraper. Give to me one large break!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:21 AM

Have to admit - my BIL thought the GRASS was city buildings surrounding the glasses of tea. He kept talking about the "buildings" -why did they put in the buildings - my sister and I couldn't figure out what he meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:29 AM

$1.40...$1.60 if I didn't use my own cup. The wierd drinks cost more, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks 'Collapse' ad: PC or not PC?
From: SharonA
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 10:49 AM

Thanks, Graham, for the link to the page with the image of the poster itself. After reading the news story, I had had in my mind's eye an image of two narrow, cylindrical glasses (not wider at the top than at the bottom) that might have been reminiscent of the WTC towers, with the dragonfly approaching from the side of one of the glasses. I was relieved to see that the actual image, with plastic Starbucks cups and the dragonfly above them (and four butterflies around them), did not bear any reasonable resemblance to photos or video of the terrorist attacks of September 11.

I wasn't sure what the green things in the poster were; I knew they were supposed to represent cut grass but I didn't realize they were Starbucks straws until I read the Urban Legends article. As a graphic designer, I don't think the straws "work" in this image, but they never gave me the impression that they were buildings, since they are at different angles rather than being uniformly vertical.

But even if anyone thought they were buildings, they aren't close to being in proportion with the skyscrapers surrounding the WTC, so again I don't see an intention on the artist's part to connect this image with 9/11. Besides, the sky was cloudless that day, and there are puffy white clouds in the poster image. And I can't imagine what any complainant thinks those butterflies are supposed to represent – the souls of the victims, or what?

In other words, IMO it's just WAYYYY too much of a stretch to try to say Starbucks was being "insensitive" by publishing this ad. Those who make the claim that the company was insensitive should look to their own oversensitivity. What's next, an injunction against the implosion of dangerously dilapidated buildings?