PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW

Subject: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 10:48 AM

You might find this article (next post) of interest. I am sorry to see PBS (my ONLY tv network) be so small minded. Millions love Charlie Daniels and millions wish to hear his his opinions - even if they don;t always agree with him. This PBS decision is small minded and peavish. I wrote to tell 'em so at [e-mail]
If you're a PBS fan, you may wish to do so too.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 10:50 AM

PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW By ADAM BUCKMAN at nypost.com


June 22, 2002 -- Music legend Charlie Daniels dropped out of a Fourth of July TV special on public television after organizers refused to let him perform a song paying tribute to the victims of Sept. 11.

At issue is a tune called "The Last Fallen Hero," which Daniels, 65, has been performing in concerts since he wrote it last winter.

The song deals with the 9/11 terrorist attacks and makes a plea for national unity in the war on terror.

The lyrics include: "Oh, the cowards came by morning and attacked without warning, leaving flames and death and chaos in our streets. In the middle of this fiery hell, brave heroes fell . . ."

Reached by phone in Nashville, Daniels said he found the decision baffling.

"The song is a tribute to the people of 9/11, and I thought it was the absolute perfect Fourth of July song."

Daniels said he thinks it's wrong to put on a July Fourth celebration without acknowledging the Sept. 11 attacks.

"I refuse to be a part of anything that goes on the Fourth of July that we have to ignore our fighting men and women, that we have to ignore the victims of 9/11," he said. "I just don't think it's right."

The producers of the annual PBS special - "A Capitol Fourth," airing live from Washington on Independence Day - say the Daniels song was not "upbeat" enough to be compatible with the other music selections slated to be performed on the show.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 10:52 AM

OOops! HTML master that I am, I double up on my "newline" commands. Sorry y'all for the format. Maybe the editor gnomes could remove the extra {br} symbols for me ... or we could leave it as is. At least the blickey works!

---

De-spaced --JoeClone

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 12:07 PM

I don't know why you are surprised, Jed. PBS, in my opinion, leads the pack in PC and leftist attitudes.

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Genie
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 12:40 PM

Jed, I agree that it's silly to try to ignore 9-11 in this year's July 4th celebration, and I will let PBS know that.  "Upbeat" is fine, but they sing "The Star Spangled Banner," don't they?  That one is about a battle, and they do usually include a few songs that are kinda slow and schmaltzy.  Not knowing the full text of Daniels's song, though, I can't comment on its appropriateness for the "Capitol 4th."

Doug R, I agree that PBS is about the ONLY mass medium where you hear any views that are really "leftist" any more.  But I'd hardly characterize their overall slant as far left just because it's closer to the center than the corporate dominated commercial media--or because they are more likely to present an actual two-sided discussion of issues.  And I don't think the term "politically correct" applies to this decision.  If anything, the "politically correct" position in the US today is to plaster Old Glory all over your house, lapel, and car [and one on your wife's forehead] and not question anything the current administration is doing, "because we are at war."

Maybe PBS should use Tom Paxton's song "The Bravest" as a 9-11 tribute.

Genie

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 01:00 PM

"Oh, the cowards came by morning and attacked without warning, leaving flames and death and chaos in our streets. In the middle of this fiery hell, brave heroes fell . . ."

Well, if that's indicative of the lyrics, I'd cut it too...

Holy lame-wad Batman....

Not upbeat enough? Well, that's their call to make, right... You don't like it? Don't support them on the next pledge drive... Easy as that...

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 05:03 PM

Clinton Re; Support? Agreed - they'll simply continue to loose support. Re; Daniel's lyrics? He's accepted by millions as a great songwriter and performer. I appreciate his talent and have enjoyed his music. What makes PBS think we shouldn't hear this song?

Doug - I guess I had hoped PBS would be more open minded.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 06:38 PM

Genie and I are in part agreement, but I part ways with her when she states that PBS is more in the center. I don't think they make any attempt at all to be in the center politically, to me they very clearly are left of center. The same goes for NPR, I think. I listen to them both, and support them both financially though.

I don't think the Charlie Daniels song represents great poetry, but I don't object to the lyrics as Clinton does. He's just telling it as he sees it.

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Genie
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 08:24 PM

Doug R, I'd describe PBS's bias/perspective differently, depending on which show you're talking about. I don't think Jim Lehrer is very far to the left in his coverage, and when PBS has round table shows, or NPR has "Talk Of The Nation," I hear a much more balanced discussion than is typical of commerical talk radio, or, for that matter, panel discussions on commercial TV. [Case in point: I just watched a panel discussion on Fox Cable last night on the topic of Forest Fires and Forest Policy. The five panelists all discussed-- with much blame, condemnation, and ridicule--the views and policies of "environmentalists" and the Clinton administration [and their alleged culpability in the current widespread forest fires]. Not one panelist was an environmentalist [or even understood environmentalists' position(s) on the issue] or someone who understood the rationale behind Babbitt's or Clinton's forest policies. This is not an isolated incident; it's typical for major radio and TV shows to pass of a Democratic centrist as representative of the "left."

Back to the main point of the thread. The PBS July 4th bash always honors our military, presents traditional patriotic songs, and in many ways resembles the Lawrence Welk Show. I guess they're "politically correct" in the same way he was--not left-leaning, but trying to appeal to middle America without offending anyone. If that show does offend anyone, it's as likely to be the left [who may find the show a bit jingoistic, corny, and schmaltzy] as the right.

Genie

PS, I'd still like to see the entire text of Daniels's song. How does it compare with Alan Jackson's "Where Were You When The World Stopped Turning?"

FWIW, there was a recent thread with a hyperlink to a website with a lot of songs about 9-11. I couldn't hear the tunes, but there were some really good lyrics there. I wonder why PBS feels the need to use material from really famous entertainers like Charlie Daniels in preference to really good [and maybe more appropriate] material from "unknowns." Could it be that PBS, like the "commercial" networks, is owned by corporate big business?

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 08:41 PM

I think it's just gotten to the point where people are sick of hearing about it and they'd just as soon forget the pain of it. I'll agree that the main focus these days seems to be on maintaining a certain level of anger, hatred and calls for vengence, and the convictions that we are right.

Remembering those who died makes things a little smaller. It makes us think of each individual life instead of some amorphous mass called the United States. I think they just want a nice show that makes people feel good, not makes them think.

And I don't believe left/right politics have the slightest relevence.
It's about playing it safe.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: toadfrog
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 12:48 AM

From the words as stated, it should have been cut because clearly a lousy song.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 03:18 AM

I may not care for the song, or the sentiments, but I am I grown-up and I learned to live with people who had, and expressed, different ideas than my own a long time ago, in fact I kind of like it--I don't need PBS to shield my little ears--

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: JedMarum
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 12:31 PM

Right on M Ted. My feelings exactly! If Daniels is good enough to invited to participate, then he should particpate. PBS oversteps its bounds considerably when the tell him what he can say. If they don;t like the way he plays, sings or thinks; they shouldn't have selected him in the first place.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 03:58 PM

Funny thing about the right... they claim the whole of American broadcast media is dominated by leftists, until they wish to point out one of the few, middle of the road networks is leftist (frankly most of you, Doug my brother, don't know what leftest broadcasting IS!) Then, PBS is singled out as leftist... Well, what if it were?
In a pulralist democracy, should there not be at least one leftest station? Frankly I look forward to the day there is one, PBS, aint it!
Cheersm'dears, Larry

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 23 Jun 02 - 10:05 PM

Genie: I appreciate hearing your POV.

Larry, my bro: I assume you believe the majority of the media leans to the right. Funny how different individuals view things. I would have no objection (as a tax payer) if PBS and NPR made it clear that they lean to the left, rather than to try to give the impression that they are middle of the road. Frankly, I don't know what that is. Seems to me one leans one way or the other.

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: GUEST,Argenine
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 03:19 AM

I'm beginning to think Charlie Daniels may yet thank PBS for cutting his song from the July 4th bash. Channel surfing today [sans sound], I saw ol' Charlie's puss on a number of network and cable news shows, with a headline about his being booted from PBS's Capitol Fourth. He may yet get a lot more publicity for getting the axe than he's have gotten from doing his song on the show!

Arge

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 01:33 PM

And I suspect you are right, Arge.

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 01:44 PM

Re-read thread title with "Yanks" to mean Americans, and get all kinds of confused!

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 01:58 PM

Charlie Daniels does not, and never has, minced his words. He has always shot from the hip. I don't always like his songs, no, but I appreciate that he has no shame about what he thinks.

I've never watched the PBS July 4 thing all the way through, but it seems to me that Charlie Daniels would be way out of place... if I remember right, they usually have symphony orchestras and opera singers and such like.

But yeah, they should have known what they were getting into when they invited Charlie to be on. ;-)

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 08:06 PM

I agree that 9/11 ought to be acknowledged somehow, but I think it's a bit hasty to condemn PBS for not selecting Charlie Daniels' song. Maybe they're planning to honor the victims and heroes some other way, or with some other song. Does anyone know for sure?

Is it customary, when performers are selected to appear on a national broadcast, to allow them to sing any song they please? I doubt it very much.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: GUEST,Lucius, away from home
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 08:48 PM

When will it be September 12th? After a while, this whole business starts to sound like political opportunism. Frankly, I'm trying to deal with the loss of two fine friends on that day, and I wish that CDB and Shrub and PBS and the right wing press would let me get on with it.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Genie
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:25 PM

I heard Charlie Daniels interviewed about this by Bill O'Reilly (sp?) today, as well as a statement or two from PBS spokespeople.  It seems PBS initially invited Daniels on, with the idea that he'd do some of his big hits like "Devil Went Down To Georgia" and "Orange Blossom Special."  [No, "A Capitol Fourth" is not all opera and show tunes.  They have marches, quite a bit of pop, some R & B, some Dixieland, etc., too---plus, contrary to what O'Reilly implied today--quite a lot of traditional and more contemporary "patriotic" music.]

When Daniels told them of his plans to sing his new song [which hasn't been released yet] on the show, they looked over the lyrics or heard the song and said it didn't fit the upbeat spirit of the song.  As far as I know, they didn't reject it because it dealt with 9-11 per se.  Daniels said he was told its tone was "too angry."

Again, contrary to the headlines I've been hearing on the radio, Daniels did not "get the boot" from PBS.  He told PBS that if he couldn't do his new song, he wouldn't perform for them.

One way of looking at it is that Daniels was offered this performance venue because of the kind of music he's famous for--his big hits--, and that he intended to use it as a platform for launching his new release and for expressing his political views at the same time.

[Don't well-known artists face this all the time, anyway?  Try to introduce your audience to your new stuff and all they want to hear is the old stuff that made you famous in the first place.]

Jim D., you made a good point. Couldn't it be possible that if many songwriters 'auditioned' their new patriotic or 9-11 related songs specifically for the Capitol Fourth celebration, PBS might have found one or more that they thought DID fit the mood of their celebration.  [They usually do include Lee Greenwood's "God Bless The USA" and maybe Garth Brooks's "We Shall Be Free."]

The question really should be:  Should Charlie Daniels's NEW 9-11 SONG get national exposure on PBS's July 4th celebration simply because Charlie had been invited to play his well-known songs?

Genie

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:53 PM

Hi Doug:
Have you spent much time in other countries where you speak the language? If so, you may recognise how far to the right, even PBS is, in most nations, PBS whould be center slightly right.
Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 09:56 PM

Here's the full lyrics, from Mr.Daniels' website... :)

"The Last Fallen Hero"

Oh the cowards came by morning and attacked without a warning
Leaving flames and death and chaos in our streets
In the middle of this fiery hell brave heroes fell

In the skies of Pennsylvania on a plane bound for destruction
With the devil and his angels at the wheel
They never reached their target on the ground
Brave heroes brought it down

Chorus:
This is a righteous cause so without doubt or pause
I will do what my country asks of me
Make any sacrifice
We'll pay whatever price
So the children of tomorrow can be free
Lead on red, white and blue
And we will follow you until we win the final victory
God help us do our best we will not slack or rest
Till the last fallen hero rests in peace

Now the winds of war are blowing and there's no way of knowing
Where this bloody path we're traveling will lead
We must follow till the end
Or face it all again

And make no mistake about it, write it, preach it, talk it, shout it
Across the mountains and the deserts and the seas
The blood of innocence and shame
Will not be shed in vain

Chorus:
This is a righteous cause so without doubt or pause
I will do what my country asks of me
Make any sacrifice
We'll pay whatever price
So the children of tomorrow can be free
Lead on red, white and blue
And we will follow you until we win the final victory
God help us do our best we will not slack or rest
Till the last fallen hero rests in peace

God help us do our best we will not slack nor rest
Till the last fallen hero rests in peace

*gag*

Well, yeah, it's crap, but not terribly offensive (except to talented songwriters, of course). I wouldn't have allowed him to play it, either, if I were in charge of the program. But that's only because I wouldn't have invited a neo-nazi redneck like Charlie Daniels in the first place. :)

Here's an excerpt from another one of this "great songwriter and performer"'s classics, "This Ain't No Rag It's A Flag:"

This ain't no rag it's a flag
And we don't wear it on our heads
It's a symbol of the land where the good guys live
Are you listening to what I said
You're a coward and a fool
And you broke all of the rules
And you wounded our American pride

And now we're coming with a gun
And we know you're gonna run
But you can't find no place to hide
We're gonna hunt you down like a mad dog hound
Make you pay for the live you stole
We're all through talking and a messing around
And now it's time to rock and roll
(...yee-haw, more of the same...)

Ah, yes. "Ragheads." Not as classic as "dune-coon" or "sand-nigger," but still a fine slur for a shaggy-ass tub of racist crap like Mr.Daniels. C'mon, Jed. Do you really think this washed-up extra from "Deliverance" has talent? Remember, "millions of people" also enjoy things like paedophilia, pineapple pizza, and classical music. That doesn't make those things "good," Jed.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Genie
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:07 PM

Lepus,
You're putting Charlie Daniels in the same category as Beethoven? §;-)

Genie

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:16 PM

Shoot, normal people like classical music, too, don't they? My bad. Change "classical music" to "smooth jazz." :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Genie
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 02:33 AM

Ludwig will be relieved, Lepus! *G*

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: InOBU
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 08:14 AM

Please accept my heart felt gag from Downtown New York... Larry

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: GUEST,nerd
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 03:39 PM

Ooh, Charlie Daniels will "make any sacrifice" so the children of tomorrow can be free? Maybe that's why he looks so damn scruffy despite hit records...he gives all his earnings to charity.

But I doubt it. I personally was offended by the "rag not a flag" song when he played it on CNN. As to this new song, it's not offensive but it sure does suck.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 03:59 PM

Shoe on the other foot, eh? I remember a thread about Iris Dement (I think), jumping ship on Letterman for being denied permission to do a song about the homeless. At that time, the consensus was that Letterman and CBS had the right to choose what they presented on their venue, despite accusations that the producers were too conservative.

How is this different?

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 04:49 PM

I like pineapple on my pizza.

I don't suppose it is any different from the Iris DeMent thing. Artists have the right of free speech, sure, but show producers also have the right to tell them to take their free speech somewhere else.

As a matter of fact, Mr. Daniels does do quite a bit of charity work, and is well-respected in the Nashville area.

Keep in mind, too, that people in US-unfriendly countries have referred to the Stars & Stripes as a rag, as they drag it through the streets and trample it before they set it on fire. So maybe we're talking about a double play on words here, but I suppose that's open to interpretation.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 06:31 PM

The difference, LEJ, Kim, is PBS is publicly owned. It is supported by U. S. tax dollars. That means that people of all political persuasions support PBS & NPR. Program decisions clearly aimed at kowtowing to either the left, or right, and offending the other is not reasonable.

NBC is a privately owned corporation. As such, it has a right to pick and choose what is heard on that network and to heck what either the right or left thinks. Sponsors are far more important to NBC than listeners, either from the left or right.

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 06:48 PM

After re-reading the threads above, I think some of you are doing some "liberal" projections regarding artists contracted to appear on shows or in venues that reserve the right to veto songs the artist wishes to perform. It is conceivable that there are venues that MIGHT censor some artist's songs based on the lyrics being too vulgar, or suggestive, or something like that, but frankly, I don't know of any. Neither do I know of any that would censor lyrics based on whether or not they were PC. I say this based on twenty years of experience booking artists in public venues.

Would those of you who side with PBS do so were they have to objected to Daniels song because they tought the lyrics were vulgar? Hmmmm?

Genie: I saw that Bill O'Brien show too, but I don't recall the interviews with the PBS folks. I understoon Bill to say PBS had been invited to comment and they refused. We must have seen different shows I guess. I did see the Charlie Daniels interview though.

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: van lingle
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:34 PM

"Make any sacrifice,
We'll pay whatever price..."
Seriously, who's gonna "make any sacrifice" other than the young men they send over to Afghanistan (and Iraq if Bush has his way). It's easy to be brave, vengeful and patriotic when you're not the one who's going to be shot at.
Politics aside, "A Capitol Fourth" offers the best America has turned out in the way of songwriters and composers like Foster, Ives, Gershwin, Rodgers, Guthrie etc. Does Mr. Daniels really belong in this company? A tribute to the victims of 9/11 may have been in order but we could do a lot better than Charlie. Of course, if he'd perform "Uneasy Rider" I might tune in.vl

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 10:07 PM

What happened to the liberal's usual cry of "CENSORSHIP!" I would have thought most of my mudcat friends would have been ranting and raving that a musician is being censored! Does that only work if the musician is singing and pickin' the liberal agenda? :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: GUEST,Sonja
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 10:18 PM

Doug R.,
The fact that PBS is partly supported by government funds* does not mean that the producers can't or shouldn't use judgment in deciding what to air.

First, a good deal of support comes from listener/viewer contributions, and a lot comes from corporate grants, too.  Both the corporations and the listeners/viewers have a 'vote' in the type of programming that gets on the air.  I doubt that the corporations tend to push the programming bias toward the political left.  [In fact, I know of a number of instances where the opposite has been true.]  And if individual contributors do, well,  maybe that's partly because right-wingers won't support PBS because it's "too liberal"--because right-wingers won't support it-- etc., etc.

Second, as has been explained above, rejecting Daniel's new song was not necessarily based on ideological grounds.   [If they invited Pat Boone and he wanted to do one of his "heavy metal" numbers, do you think they'd allow that?]

Here's a perspective no one's considered yet:

Maybe the best way to thumb our national nose at those who would like to see the US government and culture undone is not to let that happen.  Yeah, we've gotta have the increased security measures.  But do we have to modify our usual Independence Day celebrations to acknowledge the fact that the bastards have wounded us?

This is, after all, a celebration of Independence Day-- NOT Memorial Day.  Memorial Day is about remembering those who have fallen  serving their country.  THAT's the day when we read 
"In Flanders Field," "O Captain, My Captain," etc.  Independence Day is about freedom and about victory over oppression.   The patriotic songs for July 4th tend to be celebratory, not mournful.

So, nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah, Al Quaeda!  We're gonna have a party and we're not only not gonna invite you, we're not gonna sing about you, either!

Sonja

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: InOBU
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 11:43 PM

Hi Doug... censorship is when those in power cut you off... when others do it... it is just excersising good taste... Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:42 AM

I think everybody who sees this as a liberal vs. conservative issue is jumping the gun. We don't know that politics had anything to do with it.

DougR: I respect your "twenty years of experience booking artists in public venues" but I wish to suggest that the situation here might be a bit different.

I realize that when you book a single performer to perform a whole evening of songs, it is NOT customary for the venue manager to ask to see a set list in advance, so that he can approve or disapprove each song. The decision is made on the performer and his repertoire as a whole. But I think the situation would be different if you were arranging a variety show organized around a theme, with maybe 20 or 30 performers, each performing one or two songs. Wouldn't you want somebody to coordinate the whole show? At the very least, someone would have to decide who goes on first, who goes on last, etc. I suppose you'd call that person a musical director. Wouldn't you want that person to have the authority to make his decisions stick, even if some musician loudly protested?

Wouldn't you expect the musical director to want to know in advance what song each performer planned to sing? And if some performer insisted on singing a song that the director felt wasn't appropriate to the theme, or was too similar to what some other performer was supposed to do (and could do better), or that was a just plain lousy song, wouldn't you want the director to have the power to veto it, even if it meant the performer walked?

What if, say, one of the performers in Down from the Mountain had wanted to do a Barry Manilow song? Don't you think T-Bone Burnett would have had something to say about it?

Why assume this was a political decision, when it could have been a plain old garden variety artistic one?

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 01:39 AM

Okie dokie. I'll try to address each of the concerns of Sonja, my old pal, Larry, and Jim.

Here goes: Sonja, you err when you categorize the funds PBS/NPR receives as "government funds." They are OUR funds that are spent by whoever is in charge of programming at NPR.

Whether they are tax funds, or donations by private donors (who may be liberal or conservarive. Why should I, as a conservative, be happy that my tax funds are being used to promote causes I do not approve of? In this case, the cause is censorship ...a cause that liberals usually rally behind. Before fingers are pointed I hasten to add, liberals should not be happy if NPR/PBS were to promote a rightest cause.

As to the Pat Boone analogy, that is pure speculation on your part. If the promoters thought the inclusion of Pat Boone would attract more viewers (ok I can't imagine that either) they wouldn't give a damn what he sang.

I doubt that corporations would be stupid enough to try to control the programming decisions of the program directors at PBS. Were they to do so, they would be crucified by the left for interferring with programming that the programmers are convinced will "educate" the "huge" population of PBS watchers about the liberal cause.

So nayha, nayha all you want, friend Sonja, I just hope you remain safe on July 4th. If you do, it will be because the Bush administration has established policies that will protect you. On July 5, you should acknowledge this reality in the form of a letter to your local newspaper. :>)

Larry: you are right. That's exactly what happened to Charlie Daniels.

Jim: If you think political leanings had nothing to do with the PBS decision, I can show you some burned acerage in northeastern Arizona that I can get you real cheap.

You may be right in your assumption that the music director controls the material that is performed on any given show, but if that is the case, it is foreign to any shows I have ever produced. The artist chooses the material and the music director, if talented enough, conducts it. Usually, though, the talent brings his/her own music director who conducts the music for the performer. Not saying it couldn't be they scenario you describe, it just isn't the way I have experienced it.

In regard to your fourth paragraph,(I'm lazy and don't want to type the paragraph), no, I wouldn't expect the music director to do anything other than perform the music the artist wanted to perform. Perhaps the producer, if he/she included in the contract with the artist the right to veto material the artist wanted to perform objected to said material, I would agree with you. It has been my experience that the music director has little input in the overall production. Your experience, I recognize might be completely different.

As to your Barry Manilow example, I doubt Barry would schedule "Mandy" for a 4th of July performance.

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:00 AM

Please pardon my confusing "musical director" with "producer". I guessed that the person who had final say on what music was performed would be called a "musical director". You say it would be the "producer." So be it. Whatever you call that person, it doesn't invalidate the point I was trying to make, which was that it is perfectly normal in a variety show for SOMEONE other than the performer to have final say on what gets performed.

Anyway, I don't see how any liberal cause is helped, or how any conservative cause is harmed, (or vice versa) if Charlie Daniels is not allowed to sing his song. But I do see how it might serve some people's vanity to claim to be more-patriotic-than-thou.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:24 AM

Jim: In my experience (yours may be different) the music director is an important part of the production, but certainly is not a decision maker regarding selection of talent.

The producer books the talent, (including the music director) hires the necessary support personnel, is in charge of marketing and publicity, raises funds, if necessary, etc.

It may be entirely different with TV. I have no experience in that area. I know of no artists, however, that would agree to perform in a venue (and I would guess on a TV network of any sort)that would give veto rights on material to a producer.

Most artists would do as Charlie did. You don't like what I want to perform, then I don't perform.

Perhaps that's what comes with success. Charlie Daniels, and other successful performers like him, can afford that luxury. Artists that have not reached that point might be willing to give up the right of selection of material to someone else, just go get he gig.

As to how politics plays into this stituation, I think you are right. It should't. It's basically a question of censorship. The only way politics comes into it on the Mudcat is, the liberals think it's okay for PBS to censor material Charlie Daniels wanted to do, and I (not representing anyone other than myself) disagree.

I don't care for the song myself, but I think he had a right to perform it, since he was contracted to appear on the show. Some people might like it, others will not. Big deal.

So who is the liberal here?

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:39 AM

Kim, how could "This ain't no rag it's a flag, And we don't wear it on our heads" be open to interpretation? Are anti-U.S. protesters known for wearing the U.S. flag on their heads before they burn it, maybe? Nah. I think you know that by "rag...on our heads" he meant either turbans or kaffiyeh-s. Face it: the guy is trash. Why defend him?

Oh, because he does charity work? Wow! So did Hitler. Uh, but what about Nashville, you say? They love Charlie Daniels there! I met exactly ONE person when I was in Nashville that wasn't either a mullet-headed alcoholic mini-truck enthusiast or a surly, toothless old cow with a really bad perm. So I guess I give your statement about his popularity there a big "Aha, figures." * (No offense. I know there's a small minority of swell people down there, too.) :)

On the other hand, I just read a bunch of his (unintentionally) hilarious "Soapbox" articles at charliedaniels.com, and I had this thought: I think the man might be mentally disabled. If so, would he still be a racist, or just a misled simpleton? Hmm.

And Doug, I doubt that the producers (or whoever) would've objeced to a lame-ass patriotic song if it were performed by a non-cretin. Perhaps this "liberal" producer feared that if Mr.Daniels staggered up on stage to belch out "Hero," he just might improvise a few new lines about "rag-heads," ruining it for everyone. Well, not for racists, but everyone else...

Or maybe they just realised that it'd been a mistake to invite a racist pig like Mr.Daniels in the first place, and just banned his song to provoke him into quitting the show.

And I'm glad to see you're so anti-censorship, too, Doug. So I guess you wouldn't object if, say, GWAR were invited to perform on "A Capitol Fourth?" Or if they incorporated the simulated murder, masturbation, defecation, abortions, etc. of their (great) live show into their performance? Damn, Doug, you ARE liberal, after all! >;)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: DougR
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 02:53 AM

No, Lepus, I just don't think you folks consistently know what you are! Your post rambles along and says nothing that adds positively to the subject.

You, and many others that have contributed to this thread do not like Charlie Daniels. Okay, no problem. I'm not a fan myself. But WE had no input in the decision to book him to appear on the show, so our opinion about the wisdom of doing so is immaterial.

Fess up. What you, Lepus, and the many liberal "free thinking" friends of yours object to, is the theme of the song he wanted to perform.

Had Dylan written the song (okay I know it is a big stretch) you guys would be up in arms because he was banned from peforming it. Little Hawk might even have a stroke! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 03:14 AM

Well, of course my post rambles. I was responding to a dozen different entries, and I'm tired, dammit. :)

But I really don't mind this "Hero" song. I can stomach HUGE doses of icky patriotism (in fact, I HAVE to, every day at work, bleh), and Mr.Daniels' performance probably wouldn't have ellicited anything more that an eye-roll/groan from me if he hadn't written "This Ain't No Rag It's A Flag." His existence is now offensive to me. His songs are just frosting.

Do you really believe that a racist deserves time on a July 4th program?

---lepus Rex

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Genie
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 03:45 AM

Doug, the last time I looked, "government funds" WERE "our, the taxpayers', money.  But if  PBS is funded, say, 25% by taxpayers' money, 50% by corporate grants, and another 25% by individual donations, why should the tastes of those individual donors not be given more weight than the tastes of non-contributors?

Have you ever watched "A Capitol Fourth," BTW?  It sure never seems to me to be a program where they just invited a bunch of performers and let them play/sing whatever they want.   The whole thing seems kinda choreographed.  Not to say they give the performers NO leeway, but I'll bet they at least drop strong hints on which songs they'd like to hear.  I can't remember ever hearing an artist introduce a new song in that particular venue;  it's almost all standards of one sort or another.   The show is more of a celebration of popular American heritage & culture than a variety revue focusing mainly on the talents and personalities of the performers.

Genie

And, oh, Doug, glad to see you acknowledge the true meaning of the word "liberal!"  ["So, who's the liberal here?"]

§;- )

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:42 AM

Please excuse me, Lepus, it's fine if we disagree about Charlie Daniels; however, I do take exception to your comments about Nashvillians. I'm sorry you didn't have a good experience here. If you should come back, let Mister and me take you around and show you a good time. While I may be tattooed, I am not permed or mulleted, and I have all my teeth. ;-)

Charlie has always had a knack for just saying what's on his mind. Sure, sometimes it's extreme. I never said I agreed. What was it Voltaire said about, I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it? That's all.

He is wrong about the "we don't wear it on our heads" part, though - there's plenty of US flag caps and bandannas going about these days... I don't know about anyone else, but I don't care for flag apparel, aside from the occasional pin or modest display - somehow a flag bikini devalues the whole thing.

I don't know about anyone else's PBS affiliate, but here in Nashville, NPT (Nashville Public Television) broke from the local government a couple of years ago and is now funded entirely from grants and community donations. Even entities that take public money still have to be sensitive to the people giving that money - if they aren't, they could lose funding. There are plenty of charitable causes out there competing for the same dollars, and people can always take their money somewhere else.

So, that being said, I don't have an opinion on who's right or wrong here. On the one hand, there's This; on the other hand, there's That.

I did read locally, however, that Steve Bass, president of Nashville Public Television, has offered to tape the song and air it on NPT. And that Toby Keith was pulled from ABC's July 4 special because they thought "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue" was too angry. So they hired Hank Jr. instead.

Oh, boy.......................

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:50 AM

Read here

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:52 AM

What? Charlie Daniels refuses an invitation to appear on TV because he's not permitted to perform a new song about 9/11 that he knows will be controversial?? WOW! It's deja vu all over again!!! He did the same thing last October with that "This Ain't No Rag, It's a Flag" song.

He was invited to appear October 20 on the CMT Country Freedom Concert for the Salvation Army (CMT stands for Country Music Television – a cable TV channel). The event's organizers didn't want him to perform that song, and so he pulled out. He's found that his action gave him a lot of free publicity for the song. He's capitalized on that by circulating e-mails with the story of his "rejection" (also posted on his website). As a result, he's sold scads of CD's with the song on it. Read more about his modus operandi here: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/charlie.htm#charlie

So now it seems that he's making a habit of pulling out of concert events where he's been invited to perform, in order to try to publicize some "controversial" song that will cause his "enraged" fans to "rally" around him and BUY. I wonder how many times he'll try to pull off this stunt before it backfires on him.

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 11:04 AM

Oh, and – surprise, surprise – the Charlie Daniels CD "Redneck Fiddlin' Man" featuring the song "The Last Fallen Hero" is scheduled to be released July 9, oh-so-VERY-shortly after this PBS special from which he has removed himself. I can't believe this is a coincidence; can you?

Subject: RE: PBS YANKS 9/11 SONG FROM SHOW
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 11:07 AM

This kind of stuff happens all the time, though.... Toby Keith (who I think looks like Eddie Munster) is probably going to get some publicity from his July 4 fiasco, too. Also you may remember a year or so ago, the CMA - I think it was the CMA - wouldn't allow George Jones to sing his song "Choices" on the awards show, so he pulled out. Alan Jackson, in an interesting display of chutzpah, sang a chorus of it during his own performance on the show.

There was an incident a few years back with Ricky Van Shelton, I believe, and a special music production. He asked if they would please change the key of the song he was supposed to sing. They said no, he said, Bye.

One time on the CMA awards, all the presenters & such were supposed to wear green ribbons in support of environmental causes. Kathy Mattea, who had lost some friends to AIDS, wanted to wear a red ribbon instead. They said no, she did it anyway, and even mentioned her deceased friends by name on the show. She was very obviously absent from other CMA presentations for a very long time after that.