Lyr Req: Shule Aroon

Subject: Shule Aroon
From: GUEST,Amber
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:38 PM

I do Renaissance Faires and came across a song titled Suil a Ruin(Shule Aroon). I hate not knowing what I'm singing. Any help? Much appreciated.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: MMario
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:48 PM

Previous thread with a translation

Amber - what faire(s)? I just spent the weekend (opening weekend) at Sterling.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:49 PM

See the very useful "Digitrad and Forum Search" on the main Forum page. This song-group has been discussed many times here in the past, and you will find more information about it (not all of it true, of course) through that search engine than you would believe possible!

Have fun; but bear in mind that people spell the title in many different ways. Try them all...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:49 PM

Does this help? Click here

or this?

Click here

Subject: ADD Version: Shule Aroon
From: Mudlark
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:55 PM

This is the version I have sung for so many years I no longer know where I got it...

Here I sit on Buttermilk hill, weep I must and weep my fill
Every tear would turn a mill, Johnny's gone for a soldier-O

Chorus:
Shule, shule, shule aroon
Shule the aggaragga shule the coon
Shule, shule, shule aroon
Bobalinka penny wont you tie me oh

Sold my rod, sold my reel, sold my only spinning wheel
To buy my love a sword of steel, Johnny's gone for a soldier-O

Sold my flax, sold my meal, sold my only spinny wheel
Now he's dead upon the field, Johnny has gone for a soldier-O


Dye my petticoat, dye it red, Round the world I'll bake my bread
Because my soldier boy is dead, Johnny's gone for a soldier-O

Words in the chorus are simply phonetic to me and the way I remember them...

Subject: Lyr Add: SIUIL, A RUN
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 03:09 PM

I know it as

"And now my love has gone to France,
To try his fortune for to advance,
And if he comes back 'tis but a chance,
Is go dtearn tu, a mhuinin, slan

"I wish I were on yonder hill,
And there I'd sit and weep my fill,
And every tear would turn a mill,
Is go dtearn tu, a mhuirnin, slan" (and may you return, my darling safely, is the translation of the last phrase).

Then "I'll sell my *rock* (gadget used in spinning), I'll sell my reel,
I'll sell my only spinning-wheel,
To buy my love a coat of steel,
Is go dtearn tu, a mhuirnin, slan.

"I'll dye my petticoats a burning red,
And round the world I'll earn my bread (reference to prostitution),
Until my parents shall wish me dead,
Is go dtearn tu, a mhuirnin, slan."

Mudlark's version is fascinating, because the original has suffered a kind of Chinese Whispers change, so the Irish phrase becomes nonsense, and yet the reference in the original to the boy going to fight in France is retained in the Johnny's gone for a soldier-o version.

After the Battle of the Boyne and the Battle of Aughrim, in the 1690s, most of the sons of the native Irish aristocracy and middle classes were given incentives to go abroad, where they enlisted en masse in the armies of Spain and France.

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 5-Jul-02.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 03:12 PM

Ooops, forgot to add the chorus:

Siuil, siuil, siuil, a run
Siuil go socair, agus siuil go ciun
Siuil go doras agus ealaigh liom
Is go dtearn tu, a mhuirnin, slan.

(meaning: go, go, go, darling; go softly and go silently; go to the door and return to me, and may you go, my darling, safely) Siuil means literally "walk", a run means literally "o secret", and is a common caress-word in Irish.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 07:01 PM

Wow, so that's what it means!!! Gorsh!!

It's a beautiful song, and it's bugged me for years that the chorus is apparently meaningless!

LTS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From:
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 11:53 PM

Actually, Rùn means love. "a Rùn" would be in the vocative case which is the address mode. It's like in English a long time back, when you address someone, you would say "O Mary".

In Scottish Gaelic, "siuil" has the meaning "sail" with "coisich" meaning "walk".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 05:56 AM

i've heard a version by ppm.

the chorus goes:

shule shule shule aroon shule a rackshack shule a babba coon when i saw my sally bally bee come bibble ling the boo shy loree

it this just gibberish or what?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: Declan
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 06:07 AM

Ealaigh liom means escape or elope with me.

Mr Happy - looks like gibberish to me, someones attempt at understanding what the Irish words were input into the folk process for a few (hudred?) years and ends up like that.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 07:53 AM

Why not read the previous threads (linked to at the top two posts), Mr Happy? The answers are all there.

Yes, the words you quote are gibberish, and I find it insulting to a beautiful song and tradition when people continue to sing gibberish rather than learn the real meaning of the song- but that's just me.

I think this must be my favourite song of all time.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: Declan
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 08:52 AM

That's one way of looking at it Noreen, but isn't it a major compliment to the song when people liked it so much that they sang it even though they didn't understand the words (at least the chorus)?

Its likely that this 'gibberish' pre-dates the availability of resources like Mudcat where people can easily find out what the correct words are. The resilience shown by good songs can be amazing sometimes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 09:00 AM

Noreen, that mangling of misunderstood lyrics is one of the joys of the folk process. The short term effect may be the total destruction of something we hold dear, but think what new gems it can produce. Pressurw of rock and time turns rotting vegetables into diamonds. Enjoy!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 09:09 AM

Definitely, Declan. I find fascinating the transformations that have taken place to the song in its travels, and I do understand the reasons for it (and I wasn't personally attcking the people who sing the 'gibberish', though it sounded like it, sorry!)

I just think the real song is infinitely better than the corrupted/folk-processed versions.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: BlueSage
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 09:58 PM

Noreen, I would love to sing the Irish lyrics, but I don't speak gaelic. I would like to sing 'Where have all the flowers gone' in Russian, as I believe that's where Pete found the story line for the song. Unfortunately I speak no Russian.

If I tried to learn any song in a language other than my native english, I'm afraid it would come out sounding like "gibberish". So even with a tremendous resource like the Digital Tradition, I'm still not able to sing this song in it's original form.

So even though some might find it "insulting to a beautiful song and tradition" when folks like me "continue to sing gibberish rather than learn the real meaning of the song". My choice is to either not sing the song at all, or to continue singing the song as it has evolved in my language. I choose the later.

Besides, who for sure knows that this song is originally Irish? Isn't it possibly that this song could have come from a yet unknown, older tradition?

Just a thought....Mike

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: BlueSage
Date: 02 Jul 02 - 10:04 PM

Sorry, the last line of my post should have read:

Isn't it possible that this song could have come from a yet unknown, older tradition?

Mike

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 07:35 AM

I take your point, Mike, but it doesn't change my opinion. Obviously singing in a language that you speak is the ideal, but I know that is not always possible. I don't speak Irish either, but have learned this song from people who do, on tape and in person, and have taken the trouble to learn what it means and sing it that way.

The phonetic rendering of the words is also available here and elsewhere- why is learning the phonetic sounds of the Irish words by rote any more difficult than learning the phonetic sounds of the 'gibberish'?

Noreen

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 10:50 AM

George Seto - the word run in Irish means "secret" - "faoi run" (under secret) means "secretly", "an Runaigh" (from which the name Rooney derives) means "the Secretary", and so on.

But "a run" (or aroon, as it's often given in English) is used to mean "o love".

Irish is full of these love-words: "a chuisle" (o pulse), "a stor" (o treasure), "a cheadshearc" (o hundred-treasure-chests) and so on.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: BlueSage
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 11:41 AM

Noreen,

You might possible have a better "ear" for languages than I have. When I try to learn lyrics in another language by phonetics, I find that someone who does know the language inevitably comes up after a show and tries to correct me for butchering the song and his or her language.

That's what I mean when I say my singing comes out as "gibberish".

As far as the nonsense translations are concerned, they usually are, in my case, "americanised" enough that I can pronounce them. Many versions (including the version of 'Johnny Has Gone For A Soldier' that I sing) leave out the "nonsense" sections entirely.

Thanks...Mike

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: MMario
Date: 03 Jul 02 - 11:45 AM

Mike - the same thing happens to me in English! (And I'm not talking about when I am trying to "put on" accents. I'm talking about people criticizing "normal" speech patterns.)

When I took italian - my grandmother kept correcting my accent on various words - but her neighbor would give me a different pronunciation, my teaching assistant a third, and the professor a fourth! this is because they all actually spoke regional dialects.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: GUEST,nightshade zero
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 11:45 PM

the correct translation is "walk my love"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Shule Aroon
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 12:40 AM

I heard a story once about an American guy whose grandparents had emigrated from italy going there on his holidays with 'fluent italian'. He couldn't make himself understood at all and finally realized he was essentially speaking nineteenth century neapolitain.

To those struggling. If you listen to quite a few diiferent recordings it might help. (Or you might end up horribly confused by versions from donegal when your original was from cork or something, but there's always a bit of risk in life.)