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BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact
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Subject: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 15 Jul 02 - 10:57 AM A conversation Little Hawk made me think of this. In my live I have seen a lot of science fiction dreams realized. Submarines today far surpass, Verne's Nautilus, Cell, phones and other hand held devices surpass Star Trek Communicators. and often have more computing power than all the computers that existed in 1968. Can anyone esle think of a science fiction prediction that has come true or been exceeded? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: CarolC Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:03 AM Magnetic resonance imaging seems a lot like the Star Treck way of diagnosing medical problems where they wave an instrument around patients to find out what's wrong with them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:17 AM Television, of course. Rocketry, up through space travel, and of course going to the moon! Remote-guided exploration of Mars, and so on. Of course robots, which are extremely widely used in industry today. Cloning of animals, and potentially mankind. Organ transplants. I'm sure the list goes on. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,BK Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:23 AM But surely that's the nature of Science Fiction, extrapolating current technology to wonder what the future may hold? It's little wonder that some of the extrapolations then represent actual (future) technology. An interesting one in Star Trek (original) is floppy discs. Surely they'd have figured out networking by then! *grin* Still waiting for the '50's dream' of the home help robot, mind BK
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:23 AM The internet??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Ebbie Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:24 AM CarolC, possibly we misunderstood the purpose of that activity- judging by what we do today in every airport. (I expect a medical report any day now; you suppose they have my doctor's address?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: CarolC Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:28 AM They probably do, Ebbie. That's another one from science fiction, isn't it? The ability to electronically surviel (is that a word?) people's every little personal detail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 15 Jul 02 - 11:35 AM Yeah BK, the Star Trek computer was kinda hokey by today's standards. I remember that Arthur C. Clarke got credit for inventing the Geosyncronus communications satelite. There was a lot of speculation about nuclear power in the 30's, some was pretty far out but a lot has come true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: sian, west wales Date: 15 Jul 02 - 12:08 PM Robots of various flavours, I'd think. And a couple of years ago there was an item on Welsh TV news about some Prof. in ... Bangor? (ie N. Wales) ... who'd sorted out the very first (early-early-early) step to teleportation, so we may be able to add that one to the list before we pop our collective clogs. sian |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST Date: 15 Jul 02 - 12:15 PM Interesting recent article on teleportation here (BBC News Site) I think we'll have long popped our clogs before that one |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Wincing Devil Date: 15 Jul 02 - 12:36 PM Where's my @#$%^&* Flying Car!?!?SF writers did an interesting combination of underestimating and overestimating how fast we'd progress
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Mrrzy Date: 15 Jul 02 - 12:39 PM I remember some World's Fair, they were predicting that by (whenever) housewives would have a pig under their sink so that they could just dump food trash in, and it would get dealt with. Lo and behold - the disposall. They have something like the medical tricorder from Star Trek, that you can put near a diabetic's skin and get sugar levels without having to do a stick. Gotta like that. I don't recall the Internet being predicted by SciFi... what am I missing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 15 Jul 02 - 12:40 PM Two things about Star Trek Teleportion. Roddenberry first described it as convering the body to energy, beaming it to a location, then reassembling. If this were done, using E=MC2 they wouldn't need a phaser to destroy a planet. Just beam down a Kilo of garbage and don't reassemble it. If it is just the information they are sending then, it is a Xerox machine for humans. Pick the best crewmembers in the fleet and beam a copy to each ship in the fleet. It would save tremendously on training costs.
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST Date: 15 Jul 02 - 12:48 PM A bit out of date, but I still like this: |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 15 Jul 02 - 12:52 PM No I've never seen a Science Fiction story predicting the web. But I've read them with all the world's infomation at everybody's finger tips, Kinda what the internet may grow into. Of course the internet does allow pretty ubiquitous teleconferencing. which was predicted in a lot of Science Fiction. The technology for various kinds of flying cars is available. The problems being noise and air traffic control. I read about this villiage in California which ajoins an airport. Everyone has private planes which they can taxi right into their garages. Computer pets are a current fad. Look out Phillip K. Dick. The only predictions about computers that haven't come true is where they all become sentient and take over our lives and/or blow up the world. But the are allowing a lot of "Big Brother" like survelience. I'm pretty sure that they'll have some sort of perpetual youth drug before I die, and that I won't be able to afford it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jul 02 - 01:02 PM "No I've never seen a Science Fiction story predicting the web." Then yer not reading the right Speculative Fiction... William Gibsons "Neuromancer" coined the term, 'cyberspace'... written in 1983, on an electric typewriter... He's also the dude credited with the best explanation of what cyberspace is... "It's where the bank keeps your money", he's been quoted... "My cell phone is smaller that (sic) ST:TOS's communicators" Ya... but size doesn't matter... Can you use your cell to talk to anyone else who has one just by mentioning their name? Or does your cellphone have a range that would allow you to talk to someone in orbit?? Hell, most don't even work inside yer average grocery store... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: annamill Date: 15 Jul 02 - 01:04 PM I must be getting really old.... Mr. Coffee was science fiction come true to me. Imaging just pushing a button and !poof! coffee, or get up next morning and !poof again! coffee all made and waiting. No more perculators. My daughter just got me one that doesn't require paper filters. I'm always running out of them. I still know HOW to boil coffee though I'll tell you when I'll be really happy. When they have a clothes dryer that FOLDS!! Yea!! I hate folding clothes! Love, annamill |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: MudGuard Date: 15 Jul 02 - 01:13 PM Many of Jules Verne's stuff. Where did he build the gun to have a shot at the moon? Only a few miles from Cape Canaveral/Cape Kennedy... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Nigel Parsons Date: 15 Jul 02 - 01:16 PM My take on this goes back to 1994. SCIENCE FACT FOR SCIENCE FICTION Words: Nigel Parsons Music:It Ain't Necessarily So It ain't necessarily so It ain't necessarily so; The strange contradiction 'twixt science and fiction It ain't necessarily so You can't have your F.T.L. Drives You can't have your F.T.L. Drives You can't span the galaxy; by-passing history Out-living your grandchildren's lives You can't travel backwards in time You can't travel backwards in time Change hist'ry or rather become your grandfather And not just 'cos incest's a crime Arthur Clarke gave us Telstar up high Jules Verne gave us rockets that fly Science form follows fiction; there's no contradiction But scientists can't understand why Now science is setting the rules To show S.F. writers are fools Dimensional jumps; rubber sheeting with bumps Are just some of S.F. writers' tools The Telegraph tells us we must Take heed of old Einstein, not just Utilise time travel else time will unravel!? But now I think I've got it 'sussed' Now Einstein's Relativity Is the cause behind this filk ditty I'll say (while I'm beery); it's still just a theory Not proven, nor ever might be Let's put all this bick'ring to rest Time travel, light speed and the rest I propose an alliance 'tween S.F. and science 'Til Einstein's been put to the test! Note: This was inspired by the article in The Telegraph in 1994 about funds that the government had made available to pay for real scientists to come to Science Fiction conventions and try to educate our authors as to the realities of life... (or something like that) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Naemanson Date: 15 Jul 02 - 01:25 PM I'm waiting for Mr. Fusion! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Don Firth Date: 15 Jul 02 - 01:43 PM Ah, science fiction. . . . I recall reading an article in Analog or one of the other SF mags by Arthur C. Clarke entitled "How I Lost a Million Dollars in my Spare Time." He describes how, many years back, he wrote an article about lofting communications satellites into synchronous orbit and linking them, making essentially instantaneous worldwide communication possible. But, he said, at the time he didn't think anything like that would actually happen for another two hundred years, so he didn't bother to patent the idea. It's been years since I read it, but in Oath of Fealty by Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven, but as I recall, certain people in the arcology had brain implants that linked them with a central computer. This allowed them to do all kinds of interesting things, such as getting immediate information when they wanted it—and do handy, sneaky stuff like allowing two people sitting around a conference table with a bunch of others to communicate "telepathically" without the others knowing. As I recall, though, only certain people were allowed to have the implants. Hmm. . . . British SF writer James Blish raised an interesting point about the Star Trek transporter. Suppose the transporter, in disassembling the molecules of a person and converting them to energy for beaming, actually killed that person? And when the molecules were reassembled at the beam-down point, an entirely new person was created, with exactly the same memory traces as the person who had been disassembled a few seconds before. Everyone assumes that the person reassembled is the same as the one who was disassembled only a few seconds before, including the person involved. Okay, can we really say that it is it the same person? For all "practical" purposes, yes. But—what might be the metaphysical, ethical, and religious implications of all this? Don Firth Don't beam me anywhere, Scotty, until we get this thing figured out!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jim Dixon Date: 15 Jul 02 - 01:51 PM Interestingly, although we have "robots" (sort of) they aren't like the robots that science fiction writers have been imagining for years. Our robots don't resemble humans, and they probably never will. Science fiction writers imagine a humanoid machine that will do your bidding, like a human slave. But practically, if you want a machine that will cook a meal for you, it makes more sense to design the necessary circuitry right into the stove (or refrigerator, or some combination thereof); if you want a machine to drive your car for you, you'd design the circuitry into the car, and so on. I think we'll keep on designing specialized machines that do specialized tasks, and never bother creating a single all-purpose machine. And if you did have a single all-purpose machine, why would you want it to resemble a human? I think most people find the idea too creepy to seriously contemplate. Annamill: Instead of a machine that folds clothes, why not invent clothes that don't need to be folded? In a sense, we already have them; it's just a matter of overcoming your compulsion to fold them anyway! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: CarolC Date: 15 Jul 02 - 02:12 PM We're even using robots for sport now. Kind of like cyber-gladiators. (I don't know if that sort of robot use was ever written about in SF literature). I've noticed there are quite a few television shows now that feature smallish home-made robots operated by two people or two teams of people, fighting each other or competing in some other way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 15 Jul 02 - 02:28 PM Mrrzy said: They have something like the medical tricorder from Star Trek, that you can put near a diabetic's skin and get sugar levels without having to do a stick. Gotta like that. They (doctors, hospitals) NOW have and routinely use sensors that clip onto a finger and, without a stick, monitor oxygen and/or carbon dioxide levels in the blood. I know that. I have a hazy sort-of-memory also that there is a similar sensor for blood sugar, but I'm not sure. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 15 Jul 02 - 02:39 PM Clinton I've not read that story. But I suspect that what Gibson did is think of a cool name for something that was well on it's way. The ARPAnet, the precursor to the internet far predates 1983. Kinda like, after the Wright Bros. predicting that airplanes would get bigger and faster. Ya... but size doesn't matter... Can you use your cell to talk to anyone else who has one just by mentioning their name? Yes, if you wait a few seconds for it to dial. Or does your cellphone have a range that would allow you to talk to someone in orbit?? Yes if the person in orbit were connected to the phone system. Hell, most don't even work inside yer average grocery store... Well ya, and the Star Trek ones didn't require line of sight or retransmission towers. You could talk to someone on the other side of a planet. But then you couldn't play games or keep track of your appointments on a "communicator" What I want to see is a "Shoe Phone" like on "Get Smart" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Eric the Viking Date: 15 Jul 02 - 02:44 PM Surely the internet was predicted by Asimov, his "multivac" computer that contained all the information of the world, comunications etc. It's a pretty close parallel. Robots are more dificult, however the 3 laws of robotics (Asimov) have been taken up by almost all SF writers since. Ultra sound scanning, and other magnetic resonance scanners fit earlier descriptions. Space stations etc. I often wonder if the SF author leads the technology or is just a good predictor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: artbrooks Date: 15 Jul 02 - 07:03 PM Researchers here at the Sandia Laboratories are getting close to a aircraft-based laser weapon (a la E. E. Smith), according to published, unclassified reports. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,Just Amy Date: 15 Jul 02 - 08:09 PM My mother and I have read science fiction all our lives and she wants to live long enough to see us land on Mars. We have Video Telephones now via the internet and I remember those from Tomorrowland in Disneyland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Bill D Date: 15 Jul 02 - 08:59 PM Asimov had a story based on a sparsly populated planet where people 'mostly' communicated by some sort of Visiphone like the current tele-conferencing networks. (The detective story...cant name it right now)... And, for those who have not read it...find the short story "Dodkin's Job" (written in 1959, by Jack Vance) to answer the question "Why IS everything so screwed up?" ...(it has even been turned into a song by Dave Diamond, which is in the database...but I was only able to access it by clicking on "D" in the database and scrolling down) for a learned article on Sci-Fi referring to Dodkin's Job, do a Google search on the title and scroll down to "The truth is in here" link and click on 'cached' version to bypass authorization page. (Google gets you LOTS of places!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: The Pooka Date: 15 Jul 02 - 10:47 PM Nigel P., great song. Great! / I dunno, though...the brother sez some of yer men the cosmetologists below in th' labour oratories do be thinkin' the oul' timetravellin' is jus' beyond th' horizontals above an' yer man Eenstein not out standin' on th' contraries...bedad here's me bus...
Jack the Sailor, I saw on some TV program that the KGB *had* a Shoe Phone! Well -- something like it anyway. Hidden in a shoe. Maxwell Smart, indeed. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:27 AM Larry Niven's "Organlegging" has at least occured in Urban Myth. Think of it as evolution in action. (the Darwin Awards) the closest thing we have to current addiction is GameBoy.
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Kaleea Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:28 AM I recall a book written a few years ago (I can't remember the title--I'm too old!) which tells about how much of modern technology can be found in the old Star Trek TV show. I saw the instrument used to check one's blood sugar level in the Twin Cities @ 10 years ago, and they were testing the instrument which injected insulin into one's body--with NO needle--and I saw a teenaged boy (a patient at the International Diabetes Center, as was my dearly departed other half who did not have either of the devices)use the injection device @ 10 years ago too. One of my math professors in college had a friend who is a popular Sci Fi author (also a University prof), and he taught that Science Fiction is prophecy of the science to come, aka: Science Fact. Here's a page that tells about some stuff inspiried by Star Trek called "Dozens Of Star Trek Devices Now Reality" (sorry, I don't know how to make a link--ya gotta copy & paste!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Nigel Parsons Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:33 AM Bill D: The Asimov detective story would probably have been "Robots of Dawn" one of the sequels to "Caves of Steel" which partner human cop "Elijah Bailey" with robot 'cop' R Daneel Olivaw Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Fibula Mattock Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:16 AM "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card (in 1985, based on a 1977 short story) went some way in predicting the extent and influence of the Internet and computer networks, including discussion forums. It also dealt with online gaming and VR simulations way before their time, and the children used laptop computers. By 1985, of course, the Internet was already well-established in research communities and e-mail was in use, but the WWW was not created until about 1990. Laptops were beginning to emerge around the time of publishing, but Orson Scott Card was quite accurate in his predictions of how the technology would advance. I saw Minority Report the other night. I haven't read the original short story by Phillip K. Dick, but I'd like to, to see what Speilberg and co. added. Apparently they drew together a collection of experts to discuss the technological possibilities in a world about 50 years from now. The advertising gimmicks in the film are probably going to be spot on, unfortunately. I liked the VR interface which used hand gestures - I've seen a couple of papers at conferences on the development of gesture processing for VR and it's pretty cool stuff. I'm off to the SIGGRAPH conference 2002 next week in San Antonio, and they have an Emerging Technologies display where all sorts of weird and wonderful sci-fi type stuff is revealed to the public. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Dave Bryant Date: 16 Jul 02 - 06:20 AM I've read the Arthur C. Clarke story in which he "invented" geostationary satellites. From what I remember, the actual science side (although he did calculate the correct orbit) was secondary to the plot which was about the social results of being bombarded by and unable to escape from the comunications media, advertising etc. Perhaps that side of the prediction is more relevent than the physics which made it possible. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: greg stephens Date: 16 Jul 02 - 06:59 AM Sci-fi predictions occure in unlikely places.I'll bet that few people people who have read or seen dramatisations of "Cold Comfort Farm" recall that it is set in a mythical future in which videophones are in use. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: NH Dave Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:11 AM I think one of the classics was recounted by Robert Heinlein in one of his last mostly reflective compilations of older work, where he described the peace and tranquility he found, floating in a swimming pool at a Naval base in the Canal Zone, before WWII, and how, after a long day, he could go to sleep. buoyed up by the warm water. The invention, directly attributed to him is the water bed, engineered by someone who was a Heinlein fan, read the story in its original time frame and said, "Why Not?". I believe that the inventor cited Heinlein's story when he first brought out this new method of sleeping. Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: CamiSu Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:40 AM I have seen reports of the remote hands that are manipulated by the user wearing gloves. They are even called "Waldoes" in honor of the same item used in a story by Heinlein called, appropriately enough, "Waldo". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Mrrzy Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:22 AM On the news the other day, NPR was talking about grounding the fleet of space shuttles - but they called them SHUTTLECRAFT! LOL! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Naemanson Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:23 AM I remember one story, from a looonnnggg time ago, where the computer developed from the great UNIVAC through to a computer integrated in subspace connecting all people together. At each iteration someone asked the computer about the future, whether or not the universe was finite, and whether or not it could be restarted. At each step the answer is that there is not enough data. In the last iteration of the computer system mankind gave up corporeal bodies and merged with the Cosmic AC which permeated the cosmos. As the last human prepared to give up his existence he once again asked the question and received the answer that there was not enough data. Just before he merged with the system the last human tells the computer to keep working on it. After eons of ruminating on the problem the universe slowly winds down and finally the last star winks out leaving the computer alone. And finally it reaches the answer and come to the conclusion that the universe can be restarted. Thus spake the Cosmic AC, "LET THERE BE LIGHT!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: MMario Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:21 PM Asimov, wasn't that?
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Eric the Viking Date: 16 Jul 02 - 03:00 PM As for predictive sciences, look at Leonardo DaVinci for some of his inventions, taken and developed like the helicopter, flight etc. I think the idea leads the technology, as the technology develops, man uses it to develop the ideas of others or ideas of those that are developed simultaneously. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Eric the Viking Date: 16 Jul 02 - 03:03 PM I remember reading in an "Eagle" annual when I was young (1960's) about devices that would be able to turn TV's on and off, turn off adverts, and edit programmes that would happen in the future. We have IR technology, DVD-most things are waiting to happen, when we don't yet know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:33 PM "it's just a matter of overcoming your compulsion to fold them anyway!"
I cracked that one years ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:49 PM James Bond had a cell phone. Maybe not the sort of Sci-Fi you meant, but Bond gadgets are another fun look into the future from the past. Personally, I think television is science fiction. I still don't understand how all those little people get into that box. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: X Date: 16 Jul 02 - 06:17 PM Fire...Hot! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: SINSULL Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:21 PM In "1984" the roads were designed to wear a car and its tires out frequently in order to keep purchases up and the economy moving. Sometimes I think the car manufacturers have joined forces with the local governments to accomplish just that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:11 PM I recall an SF story (though I don't recall whose) in which one must consume a daily quota to keep the economy healthy. It is a criminal offense to consume less than the quota. Well, our government hasn't made failure to consume a crime....yet. But the media has certainly done a pretty good job of making a large number of us feel like criminals if we don't have the latest model car, the newest whatzit, and the most up-to-date gee-gaw. I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
(Hope that works) Bruce
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:21 AM Whilst Arthur C Clarke may not have made millions from his prediction, the scientific community (and some dictionaries) list the height at which geostationary sattelites can be maintained as the "Clarke Orbit". see Here for one example Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:50 AM "Clicky didn't work. See Here Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:40 PM Sinsull! What about back in the old days, they used to tell you to change your oil every 5000-7000 miles, and now they tell you every 3000? Mister says it's probably because the smaller engines need more frequent maintenance than the older, larger engines. But I dunno... And once, a long time ago, I had a great pair of Adidas. I wore them for YEARS, and they never fully wore out, but they looked pretty crappy. Anyway, I went to buy another pair, and they had stopped making that style. The pair I bought wore out in a year. :-( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Naemanson Date: 17 Jul 02 - 06:53 PM Ah, planned obsolecence. Gotta keep 'em buying! Nothing is as good as it was! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: JohnInKansas Date: 17 Jul 02 - 07:32 PM Kim C - ??? According to my old maintenance manuals, in the "olden days" the normal recommendation was to change oil every 500 miles, if you were operating in "city traffic." Pre 1950s, they might say it was "permissible" to go 3,000 if you operated only on "long trips." The automakers finally realized that everyone was saying "3 blocks to the supermarket" is pretty long, so they quit pressing the difference, and just settled on "every 1,000" during the 60s and 70s. Compare the 3,000 mile interval now with the 1,000 mile interval in the 60s or 500-600 miles in the 50s and before. That is progress. Note: Even though 10-W40 is the only grade sold a lot of places, no auto manufacturer in the US has ever listed it as an "approved" grade. Oil company marketing clout prevents them from saying "don't use it," but in personal communications with GM Research, I've been told - in private - "don't use it." Check your own book. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,Just Amy Date: 17 Jul 02 - 08:43 PM Kim C no cookie, I know how TV, radio and computers work. It is magic. Science is just a way to try to explain magic. Don't buy into it. It is magic. Believe in the magic. Amy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: CarolC Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:36 PM I know how TV, radio and computers work. It is magic. Science is just a way to try to explain magic. Don't buy into it. It is magic. Believe in the magic. Sounds good to me.
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:40 PM Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Larry Niven |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Celtic Soul Date: 17 Jul 02 - 11:24 PM Hey Fibula, that gesture stuff was used in the film "Johnny Pnemonic" with (cough) Keanu Reaves awhile back as well. How about the Dick Tracy wrist TV/communicators. I hear they exist as well.
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,ozmacca Date: 17 Jul 02 - 11:50 PM Ladies and gentlemen, presenting for your amazement and edification, the Astounding Einstein, assisted by the lovely Doris, who will, here and now, before your very eyes, demonstrate the Thoery or Relativity, while simultaneously sawing the lady in half at the speed of light......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Jul 02 - 04:49 AM Jack The Sailor: If Niven actually did say that, he was cribbing from Arthur C Clarke "Any sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic". A search on the first 4 words will throw up dozens of slight variations on this, but all attributed to Clarke. Of course, I've always thought that there should be a corollary: "Any sufficiently codified system of magic is indistinguishable from science" Nigel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 18 Jul 02 - 04:13 PM John, I mean the 70s and early 80s, when warranties were longer too. Mister told me all his cars he drove in the 70s had recommendations of 5-7,000 miles for oil changes, and I remember seeing it on motor oil commercials. Maybe I dreamed it all. :-) I get that Durablend stuff they sell at Valvoline. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: MMario Date: 18 Jul 02 - 04:23 PM nope - kim that was what my cars during that era reccomended as well. 5 to 7 thousand miles. During the early 70's you could get kits that would transform smaller cars into airplanes. They weren't LEGAL but they flew.
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 18 Jul 02 - 04:40 PM What about the Amphicar, or whatever it was called? The one you could drive on water. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Jul 02 - 06:45 PM Actually Nigel, I should have attributed the quote to Louis Wu in "Ringworld" thats the first place I read it. Of course this name had to come up sooner or later. But there was a Canadian produced series of William Shatner's TEKWAR that was doing those hand gestures for computer navigation long before Johnny Moronic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: MMario Date: 18 Jul 02 - 06:48 PM and others used the device long before TEKWAR - I beleive Niven among others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,Just Amy Date: 18 Jul 02 - 06:51 PM Nigel, very funny and probably true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Jul 02 - 11:03 PM Nope MMario, not Niven. I've read everything he's written. His human/computer interface of choice is a communications chip in the brain. But long before Tekwar I saw hand gesture navigation demonstrated at computer trade show VR displays. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Grab Date: 19 Jul 02 - 08:30 AM Nigel and Jack, there's a corollary to Clarke's saying, which is:- "If it's not indistinguishable from magic, then it's not really advanced." In other words, a 1920s Model T which requires hand-cranking, manual spark advance and frequent skilled repairs isn't magic. But a modern car which starts at the press of a button, has all the advance/retard and fuelling programmed into its control system, and mostly only requires infrequent ritual offerings of oil and spark plugs - now that's magic! Bill D, your Asimov story is "The Naked Sun". "Robots of Dawn" is the following book in the series. My problem with all this is that the most interesting and memorable sci-fi stories are those that just use the different environment to explore "what-if" questions about our own world or to run thought experiments - 1984, Brave New World, Asimov's "robot" stories, Logan's Run, even The Running Man. Take a point of reference from today's world, extrapolate it to its logical conclusion, invent some kind of McGuffin framework to go round it, and see what happens. The ones that go for hard sci-fi inventions (the ones that see the McGuffin as the whole purpose of the story) are mostly deathly boring - I'd submit "Rama" (and damn near every other Clarke novel) as the prime example here. Back to the original thread, check out a book called "The worlds of Robert Heinlein". There's an essay in that where he makes a bunch of predictions (in about 1950), and a followup to that essay to see what went right and wrong. Even things which he got wrong time-wise have often come true. Things which went wrong have mostly been due to cultural or political factors - for example, he predicted that we would have settled the Moon and be on the way to Mars, as maybe we could have been if Apollo-level funding had carried on at NASA (and if NASA knew their arse from their collective elbow!) Another prediction was that houses would be prefabricated and assembled on-site in a matter of hours - this is now entirely possible, but it turns out that ppl prefer the look of traditional-style houses so it's never really made it. I can dig it out and type up what he predicted, if anyone's interested. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Wolfgang Date: 19 Jul 02 - 10:09 AM Speaking about Clarke and his third law, may I just for a moment quote his 69th law and then disappear from this thread: Reading computer manuals without the hardware is as frustrating as reading sex manuals without the software. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Micca Date: 19 Jul 02 - 12:13 PM The Clarke calculation for geo stationary sattelites that give the result 22,500 miles is a real piece of genius, and is called teh "Clarke band" or orbit!!( as mentioned above) it is where all the geostationary communcations satelites are! One of my lecturers at college, many years ago, did a complete lecture on the Physics of Superheroes, it included much wonderful info such as, How Supermans X-ray vision would cook his brain, because of the heat generated(assuming the very high voltages didnt electrocute him) and A certain TV show had a motorbike with a particle beam wepon on it, only to get the energy needed(and he calculated this in class)the bike would need to be more than 3 miles long!!!!. It was a very entertaining lecture and made us all think about Physics and the way it really works. He ended with an Article, using "facts" directly from the Bible that "proves" that Heaven is hotter than Hell!!! I will post it when I have time to type it in!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: MMario Date: 19 Jul 02 - 12:19 PM pre-fab housing was available in the early '50's. My grandparents house was put up in a matter of hours once the foundation was in. The modules were trucked in and dropped onto the foundation. another day or so was occupied with doing the hookups and then they did decide to cover it with cedar shakes - but that was cosmetic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: GUEST,open mike Date: 19 Jul 02 - 02:46 PM the medical analysis thingy which clips on your finger is called a pulse oximeter-it reads the data thru infra-red light being bounced into the bloodstream in your finger and back.It measures the amounts of oxygen and CO2 in your blood. On another note:: I saw a show recently on teh discovdry channel about scientifically measuring the electro magnetic waves in places where ghosts and spirits are seen, felt and heard. the waves are measurable, and this gives a scientific credence to subjects formerly not proveable~! subjective/objective evidence~~ these modern "ghost busters" also were able to record ultra (low? high?) frequency sounds in zones where spirits have been known to frequent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Jul 02 - 05:37 PM I had a Colonoscopy done yesterday, talk about high tech! I had some electodes and one of those finger clip things. Heart rate, respiration in a realtime graph, periodic readings of Blood pressure. Bones McCoy would have been proud. Except on TV its the Aliens that stick the probes up your ass. ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Micca Date: 19 Jul 02 - 06:31 PM As promised earlier.. Heaven is hotter than Hell The temperature of Heaven can be rather accurately computed from available data. Our authority is the Bible: Isaiah 30:26 reads "Moreover the light of the Moon shall be as the light of the Sun and the light of the Sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days" Thus Heaven receives from the Moon as much radiation as we do from the sun and in addition seven times seven(forty nine times) as much as the Earth does from the Sun, or Fifty times in all The light we receive from the moon is a ten-thousandth of the light from the Sun, so we can ignore that. With this data we can compute the temperature of Heaven. The radiation falling on Heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation.. In other words, Heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the Earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth-power law for radiation. (H/E)^4 +50, Where E s the absolute temperature of the Earth-300K This gives H as 798K (525 degrees Celsius) The exact temperature of Hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6 degrees Celsius, the temperature at which brimstone or sulphur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8 "But the fearful and unbelieving… shall have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone. A lake of Molten brimstone means that its temperature must be below the boiling point which is 44.6 degrees C( above this temperature it would be a vapour not a lake We have ,then, the temperature of Heaven 525 degrees Celsius The temperature of Hell 445 degrees Celsius Therefore, Heaven is hotter than Hell From " a Random walk in Science" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: CarolC Date: 19 Jul 02 - 07:25 PM Pobrecito, Jack the Sailor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: robomatic Date: 19 Jul 02 - 07:33 PM You made me think of starting a thread called: Science Fiction Folk Songs, but to stay on topic: H. G. Wells pretty much created the idea that became known as the tank in a short story of his preceding the First World War. He predicted the atomic bomb in a book written shortly after the First World War. The guy who patented the idea of a nuclear chain reaction attributed a lot of his inspiration to Wells, who lived to see both these items put to use. Jules Verne, in the book "A Voyage to the Moon and a Trip Around it," in which he imagined post Civil War Americans having a lot of ammunition and propellant around and nothing to do with it, idly discussing whether or not to conquer Great Britain, and then deciding to go to the moon instead. He introduced the scientific concept of escape velocity, I beleive with the help of his brother who was a mathematician. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: BK Date: 19 Jul 02 - 11:48 PM The world IS run by fat old farts (rich farts, anyway), and quite ruthlessly.. Our NEWEST 2 cars ('94 & '98)- all fuel injected, etc, & all Japanese brands, reccomend 7,00 mi oil changes, all my older ones did not, ever. (I change at abt 3-4k anyway & have used ONLY full synthetic oil since fully synth Mobile-1 was available; Our '87 626 had 189k on it, used near no oil & still cruised well above any limit, flawlessly, & got >30 mpg) Since many sci-fi authors have been engineers or scientists, sci-fi has always had a significant element of predicting, both science & technology, and social trends. Cheers, BK (the original BK; apparently there is another? I haven't been very active at mudcat lately..) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Blackcatter Date: 20 Jul 02 - 02:30 AM Three things I would like to see in reality from the minds of SF: First is the "Beanstalks" Heinlein talks about in "Friday" - slender, flexible structures many miles long that stick out from various places in the work into the edges of our atmosphere. There would be stations at the tips and shuttles could ferry people and products from one to another easily. High speed elevators would take people and things back and forth from the surface to the tip of the beanstalk. Second is the wall in the nursery of Bradbury's story "The Veldt" To some extent that could be an whopping big flat screen, but it'd still be really cool. I don't think you could do it with a jumbo-tron type of TV - resolution for those are designed for viewing hundreds of feet away, besides all the stuff you'd need would fill the room. Third is the Universal Translator used in all the Star Trek series ("Enterprise" is in the process of developing it). What I love about it beyond the fact that it translates thousands of languages immediately, is that it makes the speakers lips move as if they were speaking your language and that it does not translate many "cuss" words. A Klingon cussing in English (Federation Basic) would loose so much fierceness. I do like the fact that the censor's let Picard say Merde once even though he'd never be allowed to say the English equivalent. but I digress... I think that little reference was made to the Internet is SF because there wasn't really a lot of need - People in most stories communicate through a telecommunication media. Having a video hook-up to your PC and talking to someone on the internet isn't all that much different than doing it through Ma Bell. Information retrival was talked about and definately networks, and isn't the Internet just a big ole network? pax yall |
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Subject: RE: BS: Science Fiction : Science Fact From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Jul 02 - 07:06 AM Yeah, the thing is the internet is not this big magical monolithic thing. It's just a bit of convergence whose time has come. In 2002 networking has moved way beyond the simple internet paradigm and it is bound to go much further. It will become, super computing at the finger tip like Asimov's Multivac. And the instant, multimedia communications tool described in so many stories. All it takes is bandwidth. If we are not careful it may even become Big Brother. |