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Help with some guitar chords, please
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Help with some guitar chords, please |
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Subject: Help with some guitar chords, please From: GUEST,TC Date: 20 Jul 02 - 04:13 PM I'm trying to learn how to play 'Caroline No' by the Beach Boys. I've found the chords on this site. Some of them are really tough. How on earth do you play Gbmaj9/Db or Ebm7-5/A ? Help appreciated Tommy |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: X Date: 20 Jul 02 - 05:12 PM There is a BIG chord book free for the down load at www.cosmic-kitchen.com |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: allanwill Date: 20 Jul 02 - 05:29 PM TC I'm sure the experts will do a better job of this than I can, but I'll get the ball rolling. The first thing I would do is rewert the song back to the key of G, i.e take everything back a semitone. (To play in the same pitch as shown in the transcript, capo the first fret.) Ab6 then becomes G6, Gb6/Db = F6/D, Gbmaj9/Db = Fmaj9/D,
Mr versions of some of these chords would then be:
G6 = 320000 Now, using my system, Ebmin7-5/A would become Dmin7-5/G# - hmmm, let me think about that! Anyway, I hope this helps a bit until the big boys and girls come along. Allan |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: X Date: 20 Jul 02 - 10:49 PM Could these chords be easier? "Caroline, No" (Brian Wilson / Tony Asher)
Em Esus Dsus / / / / / / / / ... where Em is voiced as B-E-G, Esus as B-E-A, Dsus as A-D-G. Tranpose accordingly to play along with the sped-up version, and no, don't ask me how to replicate these voicings on guitar - try Ab6 and Gb6 instead. Verse 1: Fm/Ab Fsus/Ab Ebsus/Db Where did your long hair go Fm/Ab Fsus/Ab Ebsus/Db Where is the girl I used to know Fm/Ab Fsus/Ab Abm7 Abm7/Db Gbmaj7/Db How could you lose that happy glow Ebsus/Gb Oh Caroline, No Verse 2: Who took that look away I remember how you used to say You'd never change, but that's not true Oh Caroline, you Bridge: Ebm7 Ab7 Dbmaj7 Break my heart, I want to go and cry Cm7-5 Gbdim Bbm It's so sad to watch a sweet thing die Ebm7-5/A Oh Caroline, why Verse 3: Could I ever find in you again Things that made me love you so much then Could we ever bring them back once they had gone * Oh Caroline, no [repeat verse chords to fade] * verse 3 holds the Gbmaj7/Db one extra measure
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: Mark Clark Date: 21 Jul 02 - 02:33 AM I can think of a couple of ways to play a Gbmaj9/Db. One way is to start with a four string Gbmaj7 chord then add the ninth and the Db bass. Here is how you might work out the construction. The four string Gbmaj7 is played with the index finger barring the first and second strings at the second fret and the second finger barring the third and fourth strings at the third fret. Now it's simply a matter of adding you little finger at the first string fourth fret to catch the 9th (Ab) and dropping your ring finger onto the fifth string fourth fret to add the Db bass. The bass E string is not played or is muted usint the ring finger. You could also base the Gbmaj9/Db on a different inversion for Gbmaj7. Make your Gbmaj7 using your index finger on the fourth string fourth fret and barre the first, second and third strings at the sixth fret using your ring finger. To get the ninth on top, lift your ring finger slightly so the first string is not noted at the sixth fret but is open down the the fourth fret were it is noted by the index finger which is really barring across all four treble strings. You sacrifice the 3rd (Bb)in order to add the ninth (Ab). Now you only need to extend the reach of your index finger over one additional string in order to catch the Db bass with your index finger on the fifth string fourth fret. Again, the bass E is not played. I don't remember the tune but, since it's the Beach Boys, I'm guessing they may have used the second fingering for the chord. You may find it easier to note the second and third strings using the little finger and ring finger respectively than to catch both notes with the tip of ring finger. Now you can perform the same sort of construction for the Ebm7-5/A. Just find an Ebm at an appropriate place on the fingerboard and add the 7th(Db), drop the 5th from Bb to A. If your A also happens to be the bass note, you're done. Good luck and happy surfing, - Mark |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: khandu Date: 21 Jul 02 - 02:41 AM Here's a Blue Clicky Thang on the Banjoest's suggested link. khandu |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jul 02 - 08:05 PM The thing about most of these fancy chords with scarey looking names is that, when you actually look at them on the keyboard, they are just your ordinary chords, but with the odd finger lifted off or pressed down. The kind of thing I find I'm doing anyway do half the time, without thinking I'm even playing a different chord, let alone one with a fancy name.
(I'm not putting down the fancy names, they are useful for people whose mind runs that way, and for helping people play the same things on different instruments, such as pianos. But you can play them without knowing the names, the same way you can play tunes without knowing the names.) |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: GUEST Date: 21 Jul 02 - 08:28 PM Thanks McGrath, But some advice on actually playing the said chords might have been more helpful than a soliloquy |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jul 02 - 08:34 PM Please note, if someone addresses me by my name, it's elementary good manners to use a name of some kind themselves. |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: GUEST,named guest Date: 21 Jul 02 - 08:37 PM Thanks McGrath, But some advice on actually playing the said chords might have been more helpful than a soliloquy Is this preferble? |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: Bullfrog Jones Date: 21 Jul 02 - 08:53 PM Perhaps it would have been more to the point to thank all of the above who DID offer advice on how to play the chords, instead of trying to be a smartarse. BJ |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: Murray MacLeod Date: 22 Jul 02 - 04:43 AM Kevin actually made a very salient point there, and his posting is at least as valuable, if not more so, than the well-meant explanations of how to play these chords. These fancy so-called chords invariably turn out to be bog-standard major or minor chords embellished with a passing note at some point in the song. Not really different chords at all, and certainly not requiring fancy names. Murray |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Jul 02 - 06:32 AM "named guest" - that's better. Not so hard. Saves that nonsense of having to put "GUEST Date: 21-Jul-02 - 08:28 PM" in the reply.
Murray has made the point. Often it's much better not to think in terms of a passage being made up of a chord sequence which involves lots unfamiliar chords; better to see it as playing one or two familiar chirds, but with a bass run incorporated, or something of that sort.
And it can be better also, when responding to a query, to see if there's some snippet you can add in that hasn't been said, rather than to try to answer the whole thing, and repeat what other knowledgeable people have already said. |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: Biskit Date: 22 Jul 02 - 06:48 AM WOW! thanks both of you for the blue clicky things those are really cool sites! -Biskit- |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: C-flat Date: 22 Jul 02 - 12:16 PM I agree with McGrath entirely about difficult sounding chords. I've lost count of the times I've bust a gut trying to work through a complicated chord passage and suddenly realised the whole passage is built around a single chord shape and has one moving note through it. Unfortunately, to write the chords, the correct names have to be used but sometimes I think a little "shorthand" could be applied. |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jul 02 - 04:50 PM I agree with McGrath on this one. I do have the knowledge to figure these chords out and even put them together, but when push comes to shove, I don't bother. They're just variations of standard, government-issue chords, and when I see these splattered all over the pages in a songbook, I generally ignore them and try to work out the song using just the three basic chords. Once I have that, I may play around substituting chords (an occasional relative minor, for example) and see how my ear likes them. Whenever I take the time to analyze songs with chord symbols like these (rare anymore), more often than not I find that the added note occurs in the voice (a passing tone over a standard chord), and to play it on the guitar at the same time is just redundant. Or someone worked up a songbook containing songs done by a group, and tried to represent the harmony used by the whole group. For example, the guitarist plays a standard, 1st position E major while the bass player plays a low C#. The overall result is either an E6 in third inversion or a C#min7, depending on how you want to spell it (same notes). Add a keyboard and a second guitar to the mix and things can really get messy. 1. Keep it simple when you're learning it. You can elaborate later (besides, then it will be your own arrangement). 2. Only a masochist choses to play the guitar in flat keys. 3. Don't work so hard. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: M.Ted Date: 22 Jul 02 - 05:06 PM Here are some nice fingerings that flow into each other, and feature good voicings that correspond with what you hear on the record-- the are probably pretty close to the ones used for both the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson versions(the BB was earlier, and starts onAb, Brian recorded it on a solo album, a half step lower, many years later--chords and fingerings are the same, but down a fret)--
For Ab6, play :
4-3-3-5-3-X
For the Gb6, just Slide it down two frets
2-1-1-3-2-X
For the Abm7. barre across the the fourth fret:
4-X-4-4-4-4 (middle finger on the bass note, ring across the other four strings)
then play the Db7 like a C7/G bass, moved up a fret:
4-X-3-4-2-X--
Instead of a Gbmaj9. just play Gbmaj7:
2-X--3-3-1-X, and, if want to, end the phrase by going to a Gb6--
For the Ebm7. barre the index finger across the sixth fret:
6-6-8-6-7-6
For the Ab7, barre the index across the fourth fret:
4-6-4-5-4-4
and for the Dbmaj7, same barre:
For the Cm7-5:
8-X-8-8-7-X,
I-X-M-R-P-X (meaning :index, middle, ring and pinky fingers)
and for the slide all but the ringdown a fret, to play an F7-5:
7-X-7-8-6-X
then play the Bbm
6-X-6--6-6-6
M-X-R-R-R-R
and, last but not least, play the Ebm7-5
X-6--7-6-7-X You can and probably should end the bridge on the ebm7-5 chord, rather than moving to any type of Ab--- This is messy, I grant, because I threw it together quickly, but I think you can make sense of it--if anyone finds any mistakes or anything left out, feel free to correct me--I listened to two versions of it, and played the chords and fingerings listed below along with it--to my ear, they are a good match to what is happening in the recordings-
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: M.Ted Date: 22 Jul 02 - 05:09 PM PS--I love Kevin and Don, but if you want to play this tune, you will do well to completely ignore their comments-- |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: Don Firth Date: 22 Jul 02 - 06:18 PM Undoubtedly true. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: Murray MacLeod Date: 22 Jul 02 - 06:20 PM Hey, M.Ted, I feel rather miffed that you didn't advise ignoring my comments as well .... Murray |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: M.Ted Date: 22 Jul 02 - 08:04 PM Sorry, I love you, too, Murray-- Do you feel better? This song is a bit problematic not because it uses fancy chords, but because it changes key a number of times--Measure by measure, the chord progression is pretty simple--mostly II-V-I or Iminor, but in three different keys--but the tune can't be played without the key changes, and wouldn't sound right without either the sixth chords or that Ebm7-5--definitely not a folk melody--
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Jul 02 - 08:19 PM Well, I've got one song that takes in 9 keys before I'm through. It's still a relatively easy chord sequence though - it needs to be.
But if I'd tried learning it out of a book I'd have been terrified when I looked at it. That's what I was meaning - if you start from the assumption that however strange it looks it's probably not that complicated if you understand what's going on, it can be a great help.
Mind now and again it really is as weird as it looks. It needs people like M.Ted to sort them out. |
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Subject: RE: Help with some guitar chords, please From: M.Ted Date: 22 Jul 02 - 08:29 PM > if you start from the assumption that however strange it looks it's probably not > that complicated if you understand what's going on, it can be a great help. Probably the best musical advice ever-- |
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