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CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music
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Subject: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: richlmo Date: 02 Sep 02 - 11:18 PM I really liked the show, but..... No Kathy Mattea? Bad ommission. Barbara Mandrel should have been much higher, 2 time entertainer of the year? But all in all a good show. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: richlmo Date: 02 Sep 02 - 11:44 PM Am I the only one who saw it? |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Steve Latimer Date: 03 Sep 02 - 07:06 AM richlmo, Can you post a link? I'd like to see it. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: kendall Date: 03 Sep 02 - 09:22 AM If Wilma Lee Cooper is not on it, forget it. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST Date: 03 Sep 02 - 09:32 AM Wilma Lee IS NOT on it...neither is Jean Shepard nor Bonnie Guitar, nor the Girls Of The Golden West...
BUT Lucinda Williams and Lee Ann Womack and K. D. Lang are on the list...
Am wondering just what their GREAT contributions to the field of country music are????
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: wilco Date: 03 Sep 02 - 10:30 AM I didn't see it either. I sispect that Nashville was just "promoting" another commercial venture. I really favor two female country singers: Mollie O'Day and Wilma Lee Cooper. Oddly enough, Wilma lee had hits on several of Mollie's works: Tramp on the Street, Wreck on the Highway. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Peter T. Date: 03 Sep 02 - 04:57 PM
At: www.cmt.com 1. Patsy Cline 2. Tammy Wynette 3. Loretta Lynn 4. Dolly Parton 5. Emmylou Harris 6. Reba McEntire 7. Shania Twain 8. Maybelle Carter 9. Connie Smith 10. Trisha Yearwood 11. The Judds 12. Alison Krauss 13. Dixie Chicks 14. Minnie Pearl 15. Kitty Wells 16. Patty Loveless 17. Lee Ann Womack 18. Patsy Montana 19. Faith Hill 20. Tanya Tucker 21. Mary Chapin Carpenter 22. Rosanne Cash 23. Dottie West 24. Anne Murray 25. Martina McBride 26. k.d. lang 27. Lorrie Morgan 28. Brenda Lee 29. Lynn Anderson 30. Pam Tillis 31. June Carter Cash 32. Cindy Walker 33. Crystal Gayle 34. Dale Evans 35. Wanda Jackson 36. Lucinda Williams 37. K.T. Oslin 38. Barbara Mandrell 39. LeAnn Rimes 40. Linda Ronstadt |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Peter T. Date: 03 Sep 02 - 04:59 PM Now that is a ridiculous list!!!! yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST Date: 03 Sep 02 - 05:25 PM Interestingly, the Dixie Chicks count as one woman. But what about Lulu Belle, Sara Carter, Texas Ruby. And why LeAnn Rimes, why K T Oslin and not Lacy J. Dalton. I imagine this has more to do with money earned than it has music sung. If we give country music an arbitrary jump off date of 1925 I wonder what the age comparisons are to current popularity and the assumed 76 years of country music. Don Meixner (at work still) |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Bobert Date: 03 Sep 02 - 09:28 PM Okay, any top 40 list that doesn't have Patty Griffin on it is rigged. Pure and simple. Rigged. But, hey, from the 'rigged' list there are a few women who make my top 5. Martina McBride, oh yeah. And Luncinda! And Emmy Lou, of course... And Reba, oh Reba. Can that girl sell a song, or what? But no Patty? What gives? Yo, homeboy. Dick Clark involved in this thing? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Sep 02 - 10:13 PM Yet another program we can all say basically bit the big one. I liked the show but disagreed witht the listings of course. Obvious omissions and a good number of "Say What?" inclusions. For me far too many of the 40 were relatively new performers and it's still hard to read what their real impact may be or is. That said, there were also some very intelligent choices made as well......even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then. The commentary was good on many of the artists and the show wasn't bad overall....Better had it been titled "40 Female Country Acts We Like." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: allanwill Date: 04 Sep 02 - 10:43 AM Not one mention of Nanci Griffith - disgraceful! Allan |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: X Date: 04 Sep 02 - 03:14 PM I thought it was funny when it was said that June Carter's biggest contribution to country music was keeping Johnny Cash alive. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Irish sergeant Date: 04 Sep 02 - 05:15 PM I liked the show but let's face it, for all of her talent, Leeann Rhimes has not been around long enough to be a huge influence on country music. I rather dispute faith Hill and Lee Ann Womack. Sorry but it all sounds much the same to me. Neil |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Ebbie Date: 04 Sep 02 - 05:38 PM Major Drift: Speaking of Nanci Griffith, local (Juneau) boy Buddy Tabor is opening for her in Anchorage, Alaska next week... |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Genie Date: 04 Sep 02 - 09:09 PM This list seems painfully tainted by a bias toward the currently popular in preference to artists of equal or greater status (achievement) whose stars have faded because: - they have not recorded anything recently (e.g., they are retired or dead), or - country music styles have changed over the years. Some of the real country legends are on the list -- though not necessarily ranked as high as they should be. It's good to know that you don't have to be currently recording or even still alive to be number one! I don't really quarrel with their top 5 or 6. But, really, Shania Twain? Lee Ann Womack? Roseanne Cash? These women are placed above Barbara Mandrell, Brenda Lee, Dale Evans, the Dixie Chicks,* Minnie Pearl, Alison Krauss,* and Maybelle Carter? Who did the voting? Twenty- and thirty-something urban cowboys and cowgirls? Genie *I would rank these women relatively high, despite the recency of their rise to popularity, because of their exceptional multi-faceted talent. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST,Dale Date: 04 Sep 02 - 10:28 PM "The CMT 40 Greatest Women of Country Music were selected by hundreds of artists, music historians, music journalists and music industry professionals -- looking at every aspect of what a great artist is -- from her musically groundbreaking body of work to her overall contributions to the ever-changing world of country music." ~~ from the CMT site. I don't agree either, but I gave up fussing about it long ago. I am sure the music industry is really concerned about it, but I vote with the $$$ that I spend for musicians not on the list. (I do have at least one album/tape/CD by 14 of the ladies who were selected.) |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Genie Date: 05 Sep 02 - 03:24 AM Thanks for that info, Dale. I still think the list is very lopsided in favor of currently popular artists. But if the judges included a lot of "artists, ..., music journalists, and music industry professionals," my guess is that younger people were also disproportionately represented in that group. (At least we can assume that very few of the C/W big shots of the 1930s and 1940s were included -- especially the dead ones.) (Kinda reminds me of when folks were voting for "The Most Influential People of the Millenium," and folks who lived in the 20th C. were remarkably heavily represented.) |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Steve-o Date: 05 Sep 02 - 12:16 PM All lists like this are innately stupid for a multitude of reasons, but you gotta admit, they got the top 5 right. And Number One is unquestionably NUMBER ONE!! |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Jack the Sailor Date: 05 Sep 02 - 12:28 PM Shania Twain's influence on Country Music, especially in videos (CMT's stock in trade), has been the most profound, since Patsy and before that Maybelle. Add that to her phenominal sales, and the huge number of new fans she brought and she certainly deserves to be high on the list. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: X Date: 05 Sep 02 - 01:55 PM ....and Shania's fun to look at. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Peter T. Date: 05 Sep 02 - 01:59 PM I would personally rank Kitty Wells and Maybelle Carter higher -- if it weren't for Kitty Wells, there would be no Loretta Lynn (ask Loretta Lynn!). yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Rick Fielding Date: 05 Sep 02 - 03:18 PM Hunhh? Bloody hell, I KNEW I shouldn't even LOOK at this list...and then I went ahead and did. But they DID get number one right! 'Course they've probably never even HEARD (of) most of my faves! That's what happens when yer an old time music nerd! Cheers Rick |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Don Firth Date: 05 Sep 02 - 04:07 PM I'm really dubious of lists in which the "greatest" or the "best" are ranked. The whole idea strikes me as kinda dumb. Most of these ladies are pretty talented, music is not a horse race, fer cryin' out loud! I did blunder into the show toward the end (I was channel-surfing on a slow night), and Praise Be! I got there in time to see and hear Maybelle Carter in action. That makes the whole show worthwhile. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Genie Date: 06 Sep 02 - 01:26 AM Sure, Shania's great to look at and she sings purty, too, but she seems more pop than country, even though her videos are shown on CMT. And she hasn't been in the public eye long enough to tell if she has real staying power. In terms of record/CD sales, it's not really fair to compare today's artists with those of earlier decades. Is country music "in" in the last 20 years or so because of Shania, Faith, Dixie Chicks, Lucinda, The Judds, etc., or do those artists sell more CD's ("albums" and singles) than Loretta, Brenda, The Carter Family, and Dale Evans, etc., did because country music is currently "in?" Also, how can you compare artists' worth by measuring sales when the publicity and marketing has been changed so drastically by technological advances? And, Hugh, you hit on a a very interesting point when you mentioned Shania's looks. If you put together a list of the greatest opera singers, rock singers, jazz singers, pop singers -- most any genre, it seems, except c/w -- I'd wager there would be a few women high up on those lists who were far from svelte and a few even downright homely. With the exception of Minnie Pearl (a comic performer) and maybe the Carters (I don't know what Maybelle looked like), it seems all these women are at least slender and above average in physical attractiveness. Maybe that's a requirement for "making it" in country music; if so, that's sad. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST,The Burren Ranger Date: 06 Sep 02 - 01:15 PM Shania Twain???in the ToP 40 Women Country Greats?...Who's doing the voting here?.. and why no Laura Cantrell? Sheeesh! TBR |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Don Firth Date: 06 Sep 02 - 04:22 PM Scroll down for photo of the original Carter Family (Maybelle with the guitar). I'll take one Maybelle Carter to a whole platoon of Shania Twains. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST,guest(truer sound) Date: 06 Sep 02 - 04:32 PM Especially since Maybelle could play one hell of a guitar! |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Genie Date: 06 Sep 02 - 04:39 PM Thanks for the picture, Don. It kinda confirms my point.
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST,Glade Date: 06 Sep 02 - 06:10 PM Disappointed that Marshall Chapman didn't make the list. Surprised that Bobby Gentry didn't make it. Glade |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST Date: 06 Sep 02 - 11:12 PM Rose Maddox of Maddox Brothers & Rose contributed more to Country Music than a third of the YUPPIE WANNABEES.... |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Hrothgar Date: 08 Sep 02 - 05:22 AM Only ever heard of 22 of them. Have recordings by 5 of them - if you count Maybelle Carter with the Carter Family. Of course, that's from a long way away, and maybe I'glad it's a long way. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST,Lurleen Date: 08 Sep 02 - 03:31 PM After their top 5, I take issue both with their ranking of some people and even the inclusion or exclusion of others. I'm not real familiar with the work of some of these women. That is, I am not aware that If you're going to count K. D. Lang, Anne Murray and Linda Ronstadt as "country," why not Olivia Newton-John (who had a "country" phase in her career, complete with some big hits), Joan Baez (she's performed and recorded many bluegrass and c/w songs), Nanci Griffith (who has written and performed some big hit country songs and other songs that are in the c/w genre), and Iris Dement? Murray, Lang, and Ronstadt are singers whose work encompasses a variety of styles (pop, jazz, rock and roll, show tunes, etc.) After that, it becomes pretty arbitrary -- one person was at the top of the charts for a few years in the 60s, another artist in the 70s, another in the 90s, etc. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: X Date: 08 Sep 02 - 05:22 PM You know Genie, I can't really think of any CW stars, male or female that were/are truly homely. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: DonMeixner Date: 08 Sep 02 - 10:33 PM Hi Banjoist, Fiddlin' Sid Harkraeder, String Bean and Joe Maphis come to immediate mind as potentially homely guys. I seem to recall a few of the Coon Creek Girls had to rely on their personalities. Don |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Genie Date: 09 Sep 02 - 02:35 AM Not even Lyle Lovett, Banjoest? ¤;-D |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: X Date: 09 Sep 02 - 12:30 PM No, even the ones you mentioned aren't HOMELY. I met String Bean and he looked just fine when he wasn't playing the ROLE of String Bean and the same could be said for the rest. Lyle, he isn't Clark Gable but he dosen't belong in a side show. Banjoist Ronnie Stoneman looks nothing like she does on Hee Haw plus she's a nice gal. Nope, no butt ugly modern pickers. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Bullfrog Jones Date: 09 Sep 02 - 07:57 PM Noone's mentioned Gillian Welch -- great voice, brilliant songwriter AND a real homely-lookin' gal! BJ |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: catspaw49 Date: 09 Sep 02 - 09:46 PM For any of you with even the slightest interest in this thread, you would really enjoy THIS BOOK Robert Oermann was one of the commentators on the program and he co-authored this book. It is really an excellent read and would please even the tastes of Brother Fielding. I've brought it up here before and if you can find it in your local library, check it out. The other author is a cultural anthropologist and the book is very interesting reading from the standpoint of how the songs were passed on and why the words were often changed in the manner they were. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: X Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:53 PM Nope Bullfrog, I met Ms. Welch In San Diego a couple of months ago along with some other pickers. She may not be RACHEL Welch but she isn't HOMELY. As a matter of fact, she cleaned up real good. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Hrothgar Date: 10 Sep 02 - 06:20 AM k d lang certainly spreads her talent around - if I remember correctly, in a thread last week she was being used as an example of a lesbian folksinger. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Bullfrog Jones Date: 10 Sep 02 - 12:30 PM Banjoest, I'm in awe that you actually met her. Please tell me that she's as nice and modest and friendly as she is talented. And by the way I like her kind of homely! BJ |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: X Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:04 PM The point I was trying to make is that with the advent of the "Video" the look of music has changed. Pickers have to look good or they are not going to make it. Today, looks are as important as the music and in some cases, sadly, more so. Bullfrog: Ms. Welch, as far as my brief meeting with her was, is a bright and kindly person. I'm just happy my line of work allows me to meet many talented people when they come to play in the San Diego area. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Genie Date: 10 Sep 02 - 03:05 PM FWIW, according to CMT.com, the only women who are in the Country Music Hall of Fame (listed here along with their induction dates) are: 1970 Original Carter Family (including, of course, women and men In view of this information, now I really do wonder why Shania Twain was ranked above Maybelle Carter, and Faith Hill, and several others were ranked higher than t Maybelle as well as Minnie Pearl, Cindy Walker, Brenda Lee, and others in the CMHF. -------------- When it comes to looks, I still don't think they are nearly as much a prerequisite for commercial success for male c/w singers as for females. Roy Clark, Charlie Daniels, Hank Williams Jr., George Jones, Lyle Lovett, Willie Nelson, etc., are hardly leading man types. Even Garth Brooks describes himself as "a little fat guy with a baby face" (or words to that effect). The women, even if they don't have movie star faces, usually have that slender, not-too-pear-shaped figure and are either under forty or look like they are (ah, the wonders of plastic surgery). In other genres, you have/had Ella Fitzgerald, Patti Lupone, Pearl Bailey, Kate Smith, Mama Cass Elliott, Janis Joplin, Rosemary Clooney (even after she got fat), Bette Midler, Joan Sutherland, Aretha Franklin, and a slew of others who lasted beyond their youth, are/were far from the fashion model shape, and/or did not have what the general public seems to consider "pretty" faces. But maybe it's not just c/w -- maybe the proliferation of music videos in most genres has begun to make looks way too important in most types of commercial music. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Genie Date: 10 Sep 02 - 03:05 PM FWIW, according to CMT.com, the only women who are in the Country Music Hall of Fame (listed here along with their induction dates) are: 1970 Original Carter Family (including, of course, women and men In view of this information, now I really do wonder why Shania Twain was ranked above Maybelle Carter, and Faith Hill, and several others were ranked higher than t Maybelle as well as Minnie Pearl, Cindy Walker, Brenda Lee, and others in the CMHF. -------------- When it comes to looks, I still don't think they are nearly as much a prerequisite for commercial success for male c/w singers as for females. Roy Clark, Charlie Daniels, Hank Williams Jr., George Jones, Lyle Lovett, Willie Nelson, etc., are hardly leading man types. Even Garth Brooks describes himself as "a little fat guy with a baby face" (or words to that effect). The women, even if they don't have movie star faces, usually have that slender, not-too-pear-shaped figure and are either under forty or look like they are (ah, the wonders of plastic surgery). In other genres, you have/had Ella Fitzgerald, Patti Lupone, Pearl Bailey, Kate Smith, Mama Cass Elliott, Janis Joplin, Rosemary Clooney (even after she got fat), Bette Midler, Joan Sutherland, Aretha Franklin, and a slew of others who lasted beyond their youth, are/were far from the fashion model shape, and/or did not have what the general public seems to consider "pretty" faces. But maybe it's not just c/w -- maybe the proliferation of music videos in most genres has begun to make looks way too important in most types of commercial music. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Peter T. Date: 10 Sep 02 - 04:25 PM Bill Monroe was not exactly Clark Gable. But then Clark Gable had false teeth. It strikes me that the definition of homely being used here is worthless, if only people who would appear in freak shows count. The real question is: how many really beautiful female country singers have there been? (Beauty is defined in Helens, that is 1 Helen is the amount of beauty required to launch 1000 ships). I can think of only 1 or 2 who would measure above 1 Helen, though a larger handful round about 1/2 a Helen. I can't stand the woman, but I would assume that Faith Hill would be about 1 Helen on your standard cookie cutter beauty index. Emmylou Harris is about 2 Helens, perhaps 3. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Don Firth Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:20 PM Among the earlier performers, I'm not sure that looks really had all that much to do with their success. The Carter Family, for example, were heard long before they were ever seen. First their records came out in the late Twenties, then some time later they went on the radio. They did most of their early performing on XERA, a station with it's transmitter located just across the Mexican border, so the FCC (or it's earlier version) couldn't do anything about the station broadcasting at 500,000 watts and swamping out everything in North America on the same frequency. People all over the U.S. and Canada used to listen to them. Later, they moved to Knoxville radio, then to Nashville. One can make a strong case that "country music" as a commercial endeavor started with the Carter Family and Jimmie Rodgers ("The Yodeling Brakeman") For those interested in the Carter Family, an absolutely fascinating book:— Will You Miss Me When I'm Gone (subtitle, The Carter Family and Their Legacy in American Music) by Mark Zwonitzer with Charles Hirschberg; Simon and Schuster; New York: 2002. Full of detailed information, carefully researched, and it's extraordinarily well written. It reads like a family epic novel, complete with strong narration, vivid descriptions, and fascinating characters—but this is for real. Must reading, if you want to get at the roots of country music. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: GUEST,vaccaro65 Date: 24 May 10 - 01:35 PM where is Juice Newton? |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 24 May 10 - 01:56 PM Lurleen, I'm shocked you would question the credentials of Cindy Walker. To my mind she is no doubt #1 in terms of her influence. Probably the greatest country songwriter of all time. If you have a collection of C&W records, look below the song name and see how many "C Walker"'s you see as songwriter. And if you still doubt it, listen to Willie Nelson's 2006 CD "You Don't Know Me; the Songs of Cindy Walker". |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: Arkie Date: 24 May 10 - 05:03 PM Since it has been almost ten years since this started, this is not that important, but to set the record straight about the women in the Country Music Hall of Fame, Connie B. Gay was a man. He was also not a singer or musician. His primary claim to fame was starting the Grand Ole Opry. |
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Subject: RE: CMT's 40 Greatest Women of Country Music From: oldhippie Date: 24 May 10 - 05:23 PM I do not consider either Linda Ronstadt or Anne Murray to be country. There's two open spots on the list right away. |
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