Origins: Short'nin' Bread

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Stewie
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 03:16 AM

Sorry, Courlander's spelling was 'Shortnin'', not 'Shortenin'' as I had it the first paragraph of the previous post.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Stewie
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 03:07 AM

Dicho, you are right that Lomax's statement is undocumented - and very short. But, to muddy the waters again, Harold Courlander ('Negro Folk Music USA' Columbia Uni Press 1963) included it in his chapter headed 'Ring Games And Playparty Songs' with this comment: 'A play song that had burst into popularity a decade or so ago as a show tune is "Shortenin' Bread"'. [Courlander Dover reprint 1992, p160].

Meade, Spottswood & Meade obviously don't think it is of plantation or slavery origin as they include their discography of it under the heading of 'Tunes From the Minstrel Stage' rather than under one of their other categories such as 'Songs of Black Origin' or 'Slavery & Memories of Plantation Life' or 'Black Face Minstrel Pieces'.

As the old-timey bloke said about Napoleon's visit to America: 'scholars differ'.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 01:24 AM

The complete three verses of "Saltin' Bread" (Salt Rising Bread) from Talley is given in thread 29791: Saltin'
The notes by C. K. Wolfe, p. 71, in addition to those given by Masato, state that "Talley was apparently the first to present a black-derived version of this piece, more commonly known as 'Shortenin" Bread.'" It was in the manuscript "Leading Themes Used in Singing Negro Folk Rhymes, Manuscript, ca. 1921, Talley Papers, Fisk University.

As is often the case, Lomax provides no information to verify his statement that "Shortenin' Bread" originated as a "ring game." It does not, as Lomax states, tell "of the longing of the slaves for the good things on their master's table." This is story-teller's invention.
Newman L. White, 1928, in American Negro Folk-Songs, p. 193, says, "I suspect that the 'Shortnin' Bread' song originated with the whites."

Shortnin' bread is made with fine-ground white cornmeal (sometimes with a little flour), usually saturated with lard. Scarborough noted that "saltin' bread" contained bits of bacon or cracklin'. Cracklins are the rind of cured pork, usually shoulder, fried or roasted crisp and dry. Old time southerers, including whites, would snack on strips of cracklin; some still do, saving and preparing the rind from a ham. My wife is one of them. For skillet-fried bread, see the recipes in the thread on corn bread. The Plains and Pueblo Indians and Navajos now make the best frybread, cooked crisp in a pie-shaped round, and usually served dribbled with honey. Usually sold at every gathering. Delicious!

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Stewie
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 10:59 PM

Lomax suggested that 'Shortenin' Bread' became widely popular as a result of recordings by the opera singer Lawrence Tibbett and others. [A.Lomax 'Folk Songs of North America' p504].

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Stewie
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 10:54 PM

Alan Lomax noted that it began as a genuine plantation ring game: 'This old ring game tells of the longing of the slaves for the good things on their master's table. The children, of course, felt the sharpest pangs'. [A.Lomax 'Folk Songs of North America' Doubleday 1960 p492].

Henry Whitter's recording is an harmonica solo, so the Skillet Lickers' recording would be the first commercial hillbilly recording of it with vocals.

It is interesting to recall that Whitter was the first old-timey artist to record, some 4 months before Fiddlin' John Carson who 'sparked Okeh's hillbilly movement'. Whitter, a Virginia millhand went to NYC early in March 1923 and somehow persuaded Fred Hager, Okeh's concert and studio band director, to record him. Tests pressings were made of some instrumentals and ballads. His 'Lonesome Road Blues' and 'Wreck of the Southern Old '97', which was later to be made famous by others, were released early in 1924. Archie Green points out that these had master numbers that indicated a December 1923 session and that either Whitter's March test pressings were not assigned master numbers until December 1923 or Whitter was called back to re-record his own material. [ref. Archie Green 'Hillbilly Music: Source and Symbol' Journal of American Folklore July-Sept 1965].

--Stewie.

Subject: Lyr Add: SALT RISING BREAD
From: masato sakurai
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 08:54 PM

open mike, there's a RECIPE THREAD.

On the background info (from The Fiddler's Companion):

SHORTENIN' BREAD [1]. Old-Time, Breakdown. USA; east Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Alabama, north Georgia, Arkansas. A Major: D Major (Fuzzy Mountain String Band). Standard, ADAD (Reaves White County Ramblers) or AEAE. AABB. The melody has wide currency in the South, and appears in many traditional song collections starting with Perrow (1915). Perrow's version was collected from East Tennessee white singers, and has been called an "east Tennessee favorite" by musicologist Charles Wolfe. Mattie Cole Stanford, in her 1963 book Sourwood Tonic and Sassafras Tea, listed it as one of the tunes played at the turn of the century by fiddler George Cole of Etowah County, Alabama (Cauthen, 1990). It was one of the first tunes recorded by Kentucky fiddler Doc Roberts in the 1920's and was recorded for the Library of Congress by musicologist/folklorist Vance Randolph, from the playing of Ozark Mountain fiddlers in the early 1940's.
***
African-American collector Thomas Talley, in his book Negro Folk Rhymes (1922, a new edition 1991 edited by Charles Wolfe), prints a unique version of the song as "Salt Rising Bread," which goes:
***
I loves saltin', saltin' bread,
I loves saltin', saltin' bread.
Put on dat skillet, nev' mind de lead,
Caze I'se gwinter cook dat saltin' bread;
Yes, ever since my mammy's been dead,
I'se been makin' an' cookin' dat saltin' bread.
***
'Saltin' bread' seems to refer to bread made from water-ground corn meal, remarks Charles Wolfe, while the more common 'shortenin' bread' is bread mixed with bacon bits or bacon gravy, sometimes called 'cracklin' bread.' See also related tune "Three Little Niggers Layin' in Bed" (Pa.). Krassen (Masters of Old Time Fiddling), 1973; pg. 15. Reiner (Anthology of Fiddle Styles), 1979; pg. 12. County 519, Reaves White County Ramblers - "Echoes of the Ozarks, Vol. 2." County 526, "The Skillet Lickers, Vol. 2" (1973). Gennett 6529 (78 RPM), 1928, Tweedy Brothers (W.Va. brothers Henry, Charles and George playing two fiddles and a piano). Mountain 310, Tommy Jarrell - "Joke on the Puppy" (1976. Learned from his father). Old Homestead OHCSS 191, "Dykes Magic City Trio" (east Tenn.). Rounder 0035, Fuzzy Mountain String Band - "Summer Oaks and Porch" (1973. Learned from Dan Tate, Fancy Gap, Va.). Rounder 0057, Fred Clifton - "Old Originals, Vol. 1" (1978). Rounder 0089, Oscar & Eugene Wright - "Old-Time Fiddle and Guitar Music from West Virginia." Rounder 0320, Bob Carlin & John Hartford - "The Fun of Open Discussion." Voyager VRLP 328-S, "Kenny Hall and the Long Haul String Band" (learned from a Gid Tanner and the Skillet Lickers recording).

SHORTENIN' BREAD [2]. Old-Time, Breakdown. USA, Kentucky. G Major. Standard. AABCC'D. See also the related tune "Irish Cobbler." Source for notated version: James Bryan [Phillips]. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), 1994; pg. 222. Conqueror 7975 (78 RPM), Doc Roberts (Ky). Rounder 0175, James Bryan - "Lookout Blues" (1983. Learned from Doc Roberts' recording).

SHORTENIN' BREAD [3]. Old-Time, Breakdown. G Major. Standard. AA'BB'CC'DD'. A variation of version #2. Source for notated version: Gary Lee Moore [Phillips]. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), 1994; pg. 221.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: open mike
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 01:20 PM

i thought this might be a recipe thread--- any body have a good one for shortnin' bread?

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From:
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 12:43 PM

Many thanks for these replies! Looks like the earliest commercial recording (which is what I'm looking for) so far is Henry Whitter's 1924 version. I don't care waht colour the performer is -- doesn't come into the equation and could be blue with yellow spots as far as I'm concerned, as long as their from planet Earth! What about the history of the number, though?

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 09:51 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: masato sakurai
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 04:51 AM

Stewie, thanks.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Stewie
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 11:57 PM

Dicho, thanks for that info.

Masato, MS&M list the Doc Roberts recording separately because it forms part of a 4-part tune, only one part of which, the chorus, relates to 'Shortenin' Bread'. Fiddlin' Doc Roberts and Edgar Boaz recorded the tune as 'My Baby Loves Shortenin' Bread' (vln & gtr) on 1 October 1925 in Richmond [Gnt 3162]. The Fiddling Doc Roberts Trio (vln & 2 gtr) recorded the tune in NYC on 5 March 1931 [Ba 32309 inter alia]. The former (Roberts and Boaz) has been reissued on CD - Document DOCD 8042 - and the latter on DOCD 8044, vols 1 and 3 respectively of Document's 3-CD reissue of Roberts' recorded works.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: MAG
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 11:06 PM

AND Taj Mahal, on Shakin' a Tailfeather.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: masato sakurai
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 10:37 PM

"Shortenin' Bread" by Fiddling Doc Roberts Trio (rec. unknown; issued March 1932) [Realaudio], which is not on the Country Music Sources list, and "Shortening Bread" by Dykes Magic City Trio [Realaudio] can be heard online at Honkingduck.

African-Americans who recorded it are: Emma Jane Davis (26 July 1942), Ora Dell Graham (24 Oct. 1940), George James (14 March 1937), Billie James Levi (10 Aug. 1942), Celina Lewis (29 May 1939), Tom McKinney (10 April 1936), Piney Woods School (6-9 May 1938), Ruby Smith (11 Aug. 1942), Henry Truvillion (18 May 1939), and Bobby Leecan (5 April 1927). (Blues and Gospel Records 1890-1943, 4th ed., Oxford, 1997)

~Masato

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 10:24 PM

Stewie, I knew you or another expert on discography would come up with a list of recordings older than that reference (ref. to Ora Dell Graham is from the Traditional Ballad Index, no other information given).

The other references to lyrics or music are taken from N. L. White, American Negro Folk Songs, p. 193, where he refers to or quotes lyrics collected by Perrow, 1915, p. 142, "nine stanzas with music as from East Tennessee mountain whites in 1912, ...", J. Am Folklore, var. issues 1912-1915 (as listed in Bibliography in White, American Negro Folk Songs), and other stanzas in White from Mss by Killingsworth 1915-1916 , Harward 1919 and others.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Stewie
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 09:21 PM

Hi Dicho, I am interested in your source for that first instance being a recording. I am curious because Meade et alia's reference to this is: 'Journal of American Folklore (1915), XXVIII, 142 (from Tennessee mountain whites, 1912)'. That looks to me as if it might have been transcribed and later printed in the journal. Can you clarify this for me? If it is a recording, who recorded it?

Commercial old-timey recordings under the title 'Shortenin' Bread':

Henry Whitter (hca solo) 26 or 27 February 1924 in NYC [OK 40064]
Gid Tanner and His Skillet Lickers (2 vls, gtr, bjo & vcl) on 3 November 1926 Atlanta [Co 15123-D]
Dykes Magic City Trio (vln, gtr & autohp) on 10 March 1927 NYC [Br 125]
Earl Johnson & His Dixie Entertainers (vln, gtr & bjo, with vcl ref) on 23 March 1927 Atlanta [OK 45112]
Tweedy Brothers (2 vlns & pno) ca March 1928 Richmond [Gnt 6529]
Reeves White County Ramblers (vcl by Lloyd Reaves w/vln, gtr & organ) ca March 1928 Chicago [Vo 5218]
W.H. Hinton (bjo solo) 31 January 1931 San Antonio [Vi unissued]
Cherokee Ramblers (vln, gtr, bjo, hca, jug & wshbd) on 10 July 1935 NYC [De 5162]
Clayton McMichen (vln & gtr) on 1 June 1939 NYC [De 2647]

The Kessinger Brothers (vln & gtr) made a recording under the title 'Shortening Bread' in NYC on 25 June 1929 for Brunswick but it was unissued. It does not appear on the Document 3-CD coverage of their complete recorded works.

MS&M also list a recording by the Crook Brothers String Band (2 hca, 2 gtr & bjo) under the title 'Job in Getting There' on 5 October 1928 Nashville [Vi V40020]

Above discography from Meade, Spottswood and Meade 'Country Music Sources: A Biblio-discography of Commercially Recorded Traditional Music'.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 08:08 PM

Shortnin' Bread-Saltin' Bread threads (in add. to one posted by Sorcha):

29791- Shortnin'
15054- Shortnin'
1327- Shortnin'
I don't think anyone has posted a discography.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 06:39 PM

Trad. Ballad index lists Ora Dell Graham 1940 AFS on LC Treas. Probably others earlier.
First recorded instance of the song, 1912, East Tennessee mountain whites; first Negro records, 1915.

Subject: RE: Help: Shortnin' Bread
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 05:17 PM

David, go read this thread and the links in it. Does that help at all?

Subject: Shortnin' Bread
From: GUEST,David Neale
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 05:07 PM

I'm trying to find the earliest known recording of Shortnin' Bread: who recorded it, when, where...? Any interesting stories/anecdotes about the song, good links, etc.

Ta!