Lyr Req: Le Reynard et le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)

Subject: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: GUEST,Jeanene
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 08:26 PM

Trying to reconstruct the words to this old French folk song, which tells Aesop's fable of the fox and the crow. Nearly all of it comes back to me, but there's part of one line eluding my recall.

Can anyone post the lyrics?

Also, I know the tune (at least one tune for it), but it would be nice to have a MIDI posted, too, if someone can do that.

Merci,

Jeanene

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 08:40 PM

I have Jean de la Fontaine's poem, but not as a chanson, so I don't know if the two are the same (and it's more than I really want to transcribe, at the rate I type). Someone will eventually put in the entire thing, but, in the meantime, what line do you need?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: MMario
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 08:41 PM

I can't find anything (in french at least) thorugh google.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: MMario
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 08:46 PM

an english version here

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: GUEST,Brían
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 10:31 PM

Try this:JEAN DE LA FONTAINE

There might be part of the poem at tis site.

Brían

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: GUEST,Brían
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 05:50 PM

The link I posted seems to be the same poem in french. Hope this is what you are looking for.

Brían

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 07:50 PM

Yes, appears to be the entire thing...I knew I wouldn't have to type it all in!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: GUEST,Jeanene
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 03:05 AM

The words I know (from a book of old French folk songs) are basically an elaboration on the poem linked to above. The song is a bit longer and has a refrain.

I went off on a trip without my power supply for the laptop, so I'll have to wait a couple of days before I can post the lyrics I recall. This battery's not gonna last long.

J

Subject: Lyr Add: LE REYNARD ET LE CORBEAU / FOX AND CROW
From: GUEST,Jeanene
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 08:42 PM

Here is the version I know of this song, from memory. I probably left out some accents and/or put them in where they don't belong, and I may have otherwise misspelled a word or two.

I know written French well enough to have translated the song from the songbook where I found the lyrics. (They may also have had a translation in the book.) But as I am largely an auditory processor, and as French is a language which has many homophones, my memory of the song is mostly of the sound of the lyrics and their meaning -- not a visual memory of how the words are spelled.

Perhaps, given the translation along with the words I remember, you folks who are more fluent in French can correct my spelling or inadvertent word substitution. (BRW, I believe the tense changes from verse to verse were in the version I saw printed -- not my additions.)

Also, if anyone knows the source of this version of the story -- e.g., is it traditional or is the author known? --, please share your information.

Merci,

Jeanene

LE REYNARD ET LE CORBEAU
(traditional [?] French folk song)

Un jour maître corbeau, sur un arbre perché,
One day master crow, perched in a tree,
Tenait dedans son bec un fromage glacé.
Held in his beak a [frosted?] cheese.
Le Capitan Reynard, attiré par l'odeur,
Captain Fox, attracted by the scent,
L'accoste poliment pour un propos flatteur.
Accosts him politely with a flattering proposition.

Refrain:
Sur l'air du tra la la la,
Sur l'air du tra la la la,
Sur l'air du tra de-ri-de-ri-de-ra,
Tra la la.

"Mes sinceres compliments, chèr Monsieur Le Corbeau!
"My sincere compliments, dear Mr. Crow!
Dans ses chic habit noir, ah! que vous êtes beau!
In your chic black suit, ah! how beautiful you are!
Et si vôtre ramage égale vos [atteur?],
And if your voice is eaual to your attire,
Vous êtes le phenix de forêt d'allentour[s]!"
You are the phoenix of the forest all around!"

Refrain

L'corbeau, ravi d'avoir un auditeur de choix,
The crow, hungry to have a willing audience,
Ouvre son large bec pour mieux montrer sa voix.
Opens his big beak to show his voice better.
Le bon fromage--elas!--[a terre n'a fis qu'n sault!]
The good cheese --alas!--can only fall to the ground!
Le reynard s'en saisit, et l'corbeau fut tres sot!
The fox grabs it, and the crow is very upset!

Refrain

Car l'autre se regale et, sur un ton moquer,
For the other [is proud of himself] and, in a mocking tone,
Lui dit, "Maître Corbeau, gardez-vous des flatteurs!
Tells him, "Master Crow, beware of flatterers!
Je vous joue un bon tour et --parbleu! -- c'est bien fait!
I play[ed] a good trick on you and -- by heaven! -- it was done well!
Bonsoir! J'avais grand faim, et l'fromage est parfait!"
Good evening! I am very hungry and the cheese is perfect!"

Refrain

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: GUEST,Brían
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 08:57 PM

Thanks, Jeanene. perhaps we can get the melody along with this at some point. My french is not strong enough to do a thorough job editing this, but there are some 'catters with good french.



Brían

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Genie
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 09:47 PM

When (If) I learn how to use my Band-In-A-Box or Sound Jam with my MIDI-ready keyboard, I'll post a MIDI. I think I need to buy a MIDI interface or something like that, but I'm not sure.

In the mean time, if anyone wants the tune, just PM me a phone number for a voice mail, and I'll sing or hum the tune into it for you.

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: MMario
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 08:18 AM

Genie - 'Anvil Studio' has and ON SCREEN keyboard that will let you 'play' the tune in to produce a midi.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 09:33 AM

Well, fromage glace' could also be fruit cheese, which doesn't make any more sense than frozen cheese...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Genie
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 04:17 AM

Art, can't "glacŽ" also mean "iced," as in "having frosting on it?" Could the phrase refer to some sort of cheese with a sweet coating on it? All I know is that that was the line as it appeared in my song book.

MM, do you mean "play," as in type in the notes using the computer keyboard? If so, it would be easier (yet still not quick or easy) to make up sheet music using Finale NotePad. Playing something on a piano keyboard is a piece of cake; "playing" it on a computer keyboard is something else entirely.

Don't fret, I'm on the verge of becoming MIDI enabled.

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 03:14 PM

Glacé can indeed mean frosted rather than frozen, but my bet is that all it means here is not "chambré" (not brought up to room temperature as all right-thinking cheeses ought to be), -e.g., cold.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 04:20 PM

Genie, I asked a French friend this morning, and she said that fromage glace' is a kind of ice cream made with VERY heavy cream, and is unique to Alsace. She agreed with me that it would be very hard for a crow to hold it in his beak, and speculates that the addition of glace' to the song (and it isn't in the original poem) is so the rhyme and meter would come out right.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Genie
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 07:37 PM

Sounds like a plausible theory, Art. As for the "original poem," though, while the song I posted has similarities to the poem linked to above (and I don't know which came first), the story goes back to Aesop!

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Genie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 02:33 PM

I've found some videos online that can help with the pronunciation. (I love YouTube!)
Perhaps not with the uncertain lyrics, because these lryics differ a lot from the older (traditional?) version I learned.

Le Renard Et Le Corbeau story told
Though that one is neither a song nor a poem, the words seem very close to the song lyrics I found in my book.


This one Les Frères Jacques: Le Corbeau Et Le Renard is a variant on the song I posted and has a different tune but is delightful in its accompanying pantomime of the old Aesop fable.


Another tune, puppet show of the story - lyrics are pretty much the same as those sung by Les Frères Jacques.

These are the lyrics used in the last 2 videos:

Maître Corbeau, sur un arbre perché,
Tenait en son bec un fromage.b
Maître Renard, par l'odeur alléché,
Lui tint à peu près ce langage:

"Hé! Bonjour, Monsieur du Corbeau.
Que vous êtes joli ! que vous me semblez beau !
Sans mentir, si votre ramage
Se rapporte à votre plumage,
Vous êtes le Phénix des hôtes de ces bois."

A ces mots le Corbeau ne se sent pas de joie ;
Et pour montrer sa belle voix,
Il ouvre un large bec, laisse tomber sa proie.
Le Renard s'en saisit, et dit : "Mon bon Monsieur,
Apprenez que tout flatteur

Vit aux dépens de celui qui l'écoute :
Cette leçon vaut bien un fromage, sans doute. "
Le Corbeau, honteux et confus,
Jura, mais un peu tard, qu'on ne l'y prendrait plus.



But this site: Chansons nationales et populaires de France shows pages from a book that some of the same lyrics I originally learned.   They are in a pictorial format, so I can't copy and paste them, but you can see them there.

One word they definitely use is "ramage," not "ramure."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Genie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 02:34 PM

Masochist that I am, I couldn't help typing out the words from that old online songbook (even though a few letters were hard to decipher). Here they are:

Le Renard Et Le Corbeau
1844

Un jour, maître Corbeau, sur un arbre perché.
Tenait entre son bec un fromage glacé.
Lorsque maître Renard, attiré par l'odeur,
L'accoste poliment par ce propos flatteur.

Sur l'air du tra la la la (bis)
Sur l'air du tra déri déra,
Tra la la!

Bonjour, maître Corbeau, comment nous porton-nous!
Merci, maître Renard, ça va pas mal, et vous?
Et mes enfants aussi, hors mon p'tie nouveau-né,
Qui par ces dernier froids s'est très fort enrhumé.

Sur l'air ...

Pest! mon cher Corbeau, vous êt's joliment mis!
Vous vous faites pour sûr habiller à Paris?
"Oui," réond le Corbeau à ce propos railleur,
Puit il offre aussitôt do son tailleur.

Sur l'air ...

Vraiment si votr' ramag' ressemble à votr' pal'tot.
Vous enfoncez Duprez, Lablache et Mario;
Chantez-moi donc quéqu'chose, une ariette, un rien,
Car dans votre famille on est fort musicien.

Sur l'air ...

Alors, maître Corbeau, sans se faire prier,
Entonne sans façon le grand air du Barbier.
Mais comme il faut ourvrir la bouche pour chanter,
Il laiss' tomber par terr' son fromage glacé.

Sur l'air ...

Soudain maître Renard, qui comptait là-dessus,
Sante sure le fromge et rit comme un bossu;
Puis il dit au Corbeau, "Je vous air fait poser!
Vous n'êtes pas bien mis! Vous n'savez pas chanter!"

Sur l'air ...

En entendatn ces mots, le Corbeau, confondu,
S'écrie," Eh, quel malheur, le duel est défendu.
Je suis volé, dupé! Maudit soit le destin!
Êtr' doyen des Corbeaux! et passer pour un s'rin."


Sur l'air ...

Or donc, de ces couplet la moral' la voicí:
Corbeaux petits et grands, retenez bien ceci:
C'est qui'il est maladroit, a dit un vieux gourmand,
Quand on aim' le gromag' de parler en mangeant.

Sur l'air ...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:01 PM

Always good to get the lyrics in Mudcat. Thanks, Genie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Genie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:07 PM

Most welcome, Q. I'm glad I was able to find the old songbook online.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Monique
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:11 PM

Génie, the first YouTube link you posted as "the story told" is the fable by La Fontaine. It's the one we learn at school.
There also are slang versions, here is Pierre Perret's version.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Genie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:46 PM

Of course, the fable itself goes back to the Greek slave Aesop, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Reynard Et Le Corbeau (Fox & Crow)
From: Monique
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:25 PM

Yes, La Fontaine used many of them.

Subject: Lyr Add: LE CORBEAU ET LE RENARD
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:35 AM

Genie: You CAN copy and paste from Google Books, if you first click the "Plain text" link in the upper right corner of the web page. That shows you the text that has been converted by Google's OCR program. (Think about it: Google has to have a plain text version somewhere; otherwise, it wouldn't be able to construct its indexes and you wouldn't be able to search the text.) Of course, there will be quite a few errors, so it pays to carefully proofread the text, by comparing it to the page images, before pasting it into Mudcat. That's a lot easier than typing the whole thing, and you avoid introducing your own typos.

Here's another version, close to yours, but differing in a few words here and there.

From Recueil de Chansons Canadiennes et Françaises (Montreal: John Lovell, 1859), page 251.


LE CORBEAU ET LE RENARD.

Un jour maître Corbeau, sur une arbre perché
Tenait dedans son bec un fromage glacé.
Lorsque maître Renard, attiré par l'odeur,
L'accoste poliment par ce propos flatteur,
Sur l'air du tra-la-la-la,
Sur l'air du tra-la-la-la,
Sur l'air du tra-deri-dera, tra-la-la.

Bonjour maître Corbeau, comment nous portons-nous?
—Merci, maître Renard, ça n'va pas mal et vous?
Tous mes enfants sont bien, hors mon p'tit nouveau né,
Qui, par ces derniers froids, s'est très-fort enrhumé
A l'air du tra-la-la-la, etc.

Peste! maître Corbeau, vous êt's joliment mis:
Vous vous faites pour sûr, habiller à Paris?
—Oui, répond le nigaud, à ce propos flatteur,
Et lui donne aussitôt l'adress' de son tailleur.
Sur l'air du tra-la-la-la, etc.

Certes, si vot' ramage' répond à vot' pal'tot,
Vous enfoncez Dupré, Lablache et Mario;
Chantez-moi donc queuqu'chose, une ariette, un rien:
Car chez vous d'père en fils chacun naît musicien.
Sur l'air du tra-la-la-la, etc.

Là-dessus le Corbeau, sans se faire prier,
Entonne sans façon le grand air du Barbier;
Mais, comme il faut ouvrir la bouche pour chanter,
Il laiss' tomber par terr' son fromage glacé.
Sur l'air du tra-la-la-la, etc.

Alors, maître Renard, qui comptait là-dessus,
Saute sur le fromage, et rit comme un bossu.
Merci, maître Corbeau, je vous ai fait poser:
Vous n'êtes pas bien mis, vous n'savez pas chanter.
Pas mêm' le tra-la-la-la, etc.

Alors, maître Corbeau resta tout confondu:
Juste ciel! quel malheur! l'duel est défendu.
Je suis volé, dupé: maudit soit le destin!
Le doyen des corbeaux passer pour un serin!
Sur l'air du tra-la-la-la, etc.

Or donc, de ces couplets la morale voici:
Corbeaux, petits et grands, retenez bien ceci:
C'est qu'il est maladroit, a dit un vieux gourmand,
Quand on aim' le fromag', de chanter en mangeant.
Sur l'air du tra-la-la-la, etc.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Corbeau Et Le Renard
From: Genie
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:44 PM

Thanks for the tip, Jim. That would have been a lot easier and faster than typing the whole thing out myself - especially with an "English keyboard."
I know how to do the various diacritical marks for French et al., but it's a lot more cumbersome than just typing in English.


One of these days I will record myself singing the version I posted earlier and I'll share it with youse guys so you can hear the tune. Then Monique and the others fluent in French can critique my pronunciation (which is a hodgepodge derived from: college French courses taught by an Irish-American whose principal second language was German; listening to Édith Piaf and Charles Aznavaour records; and spending a summer teaching in Montréal).   *g*

Genie